Preference Point Break Down

[Duwammer]

Out of curiosity, I called the Game and Fish and asked for example.

Area 007 Non Resident Regular Draw 2014 for any elk

The draw shows that 27 people applied with 8 points and ended with 987 people applying with less than 7 points.

I asked if they had the break down of how many people applied had

6.5 points
6.0 points
5.5 points
5.0 points
etc,etc

The person that I talked to said good question but "he" didn't have that information. Although he looked he wasn't able find it.

I'm wondering if anyone has looked into this before and found anything out........

 

[WapitiBob]

They do not have that breakdown. Been there.....

Reason being, WY rounds to 5 decimal places and the number of point pools, per hunt code would be overwhelming.

 

[Duwammer]

Thanks for the reply.

I guess I didn't realize it would be that difficult.

 

[TOPGUN]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-28-15 AT 12:45PM (MST)[p]Duwammer---That's why you have to be very careful when you look at the Wyoming draw stats because you have no idea how many people are in that < (less than) category between each full PP. There may be none, only one, or there may be quite a few and they may all have the same or different averages. Even if there are only two parties in that category, if they are in separate pools the party with the higher fraction gets the tags first. If there are still tags left, the tags go to the next lower fraction pool until it gets down to the next whole point. It would be a nightmare if the G&F tried to break all those down between each PP for each unit and put that on the website. This is also the reason that a person who thinks they have enough PPs to draw is careful not to party with someone with less PPs that might take them down just below the pool that draws the last available tags.

 

[jm77]

Party should go by lowest point holder, problem solved...

 

[TOPGUN]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-28-15 AT 02:35PM (MST)[p]I think all the NRs that replied recently on the thread regarding party averaging were all in favor of it staying the way it is. IMHO very few are hurt by it or there would be an outcry to change it, while on the positive side it does get rid of multiple PPs and allows friends and family to know they can hunt in a unit together in a given year. Any system has it's flaws and this appears to be a very minor one that most in the system have no problem with.

 

[BuzzH]

Point systems are made to be changed...and JM has this one right.

Party point totals should be figured by the lowest point holder.

Party size needs to be revisited as well. The good thing about making either change is there is no legislation needed.

 

[junior]

Good luck with that! The outfitter will never let points averaging go down!

 

[BuzzH]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-28-15 AT 06:07PM (MST)[p]Sounds like a challenge, I like that. I can assure you that WYOGA has a lot less influence with the Commission.

The legislature wont decide changes to point averaging...

 

[TOPGUN]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-28-15 AT 06:46PM (MST)[p]Questions for you BuzzH. Why would you even want to stick your nose into the NR system that no NR asked for and that we got stuck with when you and the other residents don't even have any skin in the game? I doubt that the WYOGA is getting a bunch of people into their camps by using the PP averaging system that is in place, so they may not weight into this very much if/when it comes up. Seeing as it's very doubtful that any NR or group of NRs would bring cutting the average to the lowest in a party before the Commission to change it, are you saying you would do so because of the "challenge" it might bring? I'd be careful how you answer because if you would do so that sort of tells us that you aren't in the camp of the NRs like you try to portray. Let's just leave things the way they are until a resident PP system might be passed with party averaging like you are advocating and our system could then be made to match it. Until that time it appears that things are just being stated to stir the pot and I think we've had enough pot stirring for 2015, don't you?!

 

[BuzzH]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-28-15 AT 07:18PM (MST)[p]You know the reason(s) why...been over it already.

Ask your bud jims why there should be a change to point averaging. I have plenty of NR friends/family that want it changed. That simple.

As to party size, that is a R and NR issue, and it needs to change as well.

No way should 6 people be allowed to party app for deer and elk.

 

[junior]

+1 Top
I could care less, to be honest with you.

I will say this, and not to be king of the internet, or any BS like that. Its friendly advice, from someone an hour from DC, who watches these BigD contest all the time.

You can fight them the rest of your life, and in the end, you may find, the battle was lost before you started.

Then when, and if you take from them....they will take from you. Maybe even personally, sooner rather then later. It's not worth it dude.

Really think about what you would even gain, on this one?

It's your dime and your time...Have at it.

 

[TOPGUN]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-28-15 AT 07:33PM (MST)[p]Not going to ask jims anything and he isn't "my bud"! I'm asking you and you skirted the issue like a politician would, LOL!

 

[TOPGUN]

junior---I'm really not going to "have at it" as you put it, as I've said all I need to say in my posts as far as NRs go already. Anything more would just be putting BuzzH right where he and his big ego like to be! PS: I'm sure he has a ton of NR friends and family that would like to see an averaging system that's in their favor changed to the lowest person just because they're such great people like he is! I really could care less whether it is changed or even eliminated in the future, but unless it has something that pertains to residents IMHO he should keep his nose out of it. He loves to stir the pot and cut down people and along with another guy on OYOA even tried to get me into another battle regarding antelope scores and I didn't bite on that one either, LOL!

 

[junior]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-28-15 AT 07:36PM (MST)[p]Top...LMAO....I was responding to buzz and his hardo for the outfitters.

 

[BuzzH]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-28-15 AT 08:49PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-28-15 AT 08:43?PM (MST)

junior, is there a particular reason why you make every issue about outfitters? Have friends in the outfitting industry or what?

There are many good reasons to change the current point averaging in Wyoming.

One of the main reasons for a point system that we hear all the time is that it allows the NR hunter to know when they will draw a tag. The way the averaging works now is a joke, it doesn't allow the NR hunter to really know when they'll draw. In particular when a party can be aced out of a draw by a "fraction" of a point.

Secondly, there is no way to know how many people applied in the less than equal numbered pools. The very reason this post was started.

It makes planning a NR hunt a pretty major pain in the ass...and I reckon that applies to outfitters who are trying to fill in their bookings based on previous years point requirements. There is no way to know where the point pools are at when its a fraction of the nearest whole number.

Further, IMO, point averaging causes point creep, another thing we can do without. Check what happened to many of the elk draws this year, its going to be the same thing with deer and antelope as well.

Finally, the number of people allowed in a party, should not be 6 for deer and elk, whether R or NR. In particular in areas where low tag numbers are given. Wyoming does not split parties and will award up to 5 additional tags for any party application that is drawn last. IMO, areas with low numbers can not afford to be giving up to 5 additional tags. One additional tag? No problem, 5, shouldn't happen.

Try not to break you leg jumping to conclusions next time...sport. Same goes for you topgun.

 

[junior]

An outfitter spy...lmao.... Me jumping to conclusions.....Like I said, I could care less!

I just give you some friendly advice, as its obvious your hatred to the outfitter. We all saw the a$$ kicking they gave, on the 10% and understand the black eye.

Your agenda, what ever it is, will not effect me, or anyone I know.

You don't have to explain to us. Have at it.

 

[BuzzH]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-28-15 AT 09:32PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-28-15 AT 09:29?PM (MST)

junior,

What are you going to do for an encore, give me some hunting advice?

That will be an even bigger hoot.

Laffin'...

 

[junior]

An encore.....you don't need that.
I don't like kicking folk when they are down.

 

[jm77]

junior

Have you given any thought to why 60/40 went down in the last round?

Last time I saw Buzz he wasn't down at all. He was laffin...

 

[excavator]

What position does Buzz H hold? Was he elected as a state representative or something? I am not sure who he is, but he sure acts like he is somebody. A lot of times people that act like they are somebody are in reality only somebody that wants to be somebody, but I don't know if that is the case with Buzz or not?

I'm serious. How did he get anointed as god's gift to anything related to hunting in Wyoming?

Excavator

 

[Bob D.]

The issue Buzz mentioned can easily be solved while still averaging points. Why not average the points and then round to the nearest whole number? Lots of other states do it this way.

As for the 6 people applying as a party for deer or elk, that's simple as well. If that party is drawn for a hunt, but there aren't 6 tags left, they don't get it. It works that way in other states as well.

 

[BPKHunter]

Not sure how I see that point averaging hurts the resident hunter, as it doesn't take away opportunity, add competition, or even as I understand it, take away revenue for them.

As for NR's, for which I am one, I see it being an issue for the solo hunterr, but if you plan to travel across long distances with family/friends then I think it is beneficial. I think party applications are as well, though maybe 4 would be better than 6 to help with the "extra" allocaated tags. Also okay withe not issuing more tags than normal allotment. I do believe that having the economic impact of the NR hunters is part of the equation and helps most residents one way or another.

I'm a novice NR hunter, hunting mostly in my home state of ID. I see both sides of the story. Will most likely hunt solo on some hunts and with my kids on others. Again, I can see benefits both ways, but don't see where they don't all balance out in the "big picture".

 

[junior]

Have you given any thought to why 60/40 went down in the last round?
Last time I saw Buzz he wasn't down at all. He was laffin...


Dam,
You guys need a picture?

State of Wyoming = Parent
Non-Resident = Child
If parent, instructs child to stand in the corner. Child stands in the corners, or doesn't go out for recess.
Its your state, balls in your court...
Have at it, and while your at it, take it to the Sportsmen's Political Talk Forum.
Here you go, your welcome.
http://www.monstermuleys.info/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.pl?az=list&forum=DCForumID46&conf=conference

 

[jm77]

"Have at it, and while your at it, take it to the Sportsmen's Political Talk Forum."

Know what junior(child)? Think I'll stay right here in Wyoming. After all, it's where I(parent) belong.

 

[junior]

jm77
See this is where you and Buzz have the problem.
You and buzz are not=(parent)
Your both a (child)in your own state.

Remember the new mud hole the outfitters stomped in your a$$.

The outfitters own the G&F and your wildlife.

Lmao....Have at it boys!

Fyi: Pick battles you can win.

 

[excavator]

>>
>It's an honest question. What position(s) does Buzz hold??
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[BuzzH]

junior,

Question...if what you say is true, that the outfitters "own the GF" then why does WYOGA end run the GF via the Legislature?

If they owned the GF, they wouldn't have a need for pushing their agenda through the legislature.

When you find a clue, it will be your first.

 

[BuzzH]

LAST EDITED ON Mar-01-15 AT 10:03AM (MST)[p]Excavator,

Since when does anyone need a position to make changes to the State of Wyoming's wildlife resources and management of same? Seems the Public is entitled to work with the GF, GF Commission, and Legislature to make needed changes...yes?

Last I checked, they are all in their positions to serve the public, they work for us, remember?

Finally, when 5 people show up at GF meetings, those 5 people have a pretty big voice...just sayin'.

But, to answer your question, I have the unique position of being a concerned Sportsman that shows up and gets involved in the future of wildlife, public lands, wildlife habitat, and hunting/fishing.

 

[excavator]

>LAST EDITED ON Mar-01-15
>AT 10:03?AM (MST)
>
>Excavator,
>
>Since when does anyone need a
>position to make changes to
>the State of Wyoming's wildlife
>resources and management of same?
>Seems the Public is entitled
>to work with the GF,
>GF Commission, and Legislature to
>make needed changes...yes?
>
>Last I checked, they are all
>in their positions to serve
>the public, they work for
>us, remember?
>
>Finally, when 5 people show up
>at GF meetings, those 5
>people have a pretty big
>voice...just sayin'.
>
>But, to answer your question, I
>have the unique position of
>being a concerned Sportsman that
>shows up and gets involved
>in the future of wildlife,
>public lands, wildlife habitat, and
>hunting/fishing.

Yah Buzz,

You had me fooled.

I guess you are just an average Joe that really wants to make a difference in the future of public lands, wildlife, hunting, etc....or maybe you are just looking out for your only personal self interest as a Wyoming resident? Whatever the case may be, you pontificate more than pretty much anybody I have ever been exposed to, and at times, it makes me want to vomit or just take you down and rub your face in the mud.

I am certain that I am not the only one that feels this way.

Excavator

 

[excavator]

Yah Buzz,

You had me fooled.

I guess you are just an average Joe that really wants to make a difference in the future of public lands, wildlife, hunting, etc....or maybe you are just looking out for your only personal self interest as a Wyoming resident? Whatever the case may be, you pontificate more than pretty much anybody I have ever been exposed to, and at times, it makes me want to vomit or just take you down and rub your face in the mud.

I am certain that I am not the only one that feels this way.

Excavator

 

[jm77]

"jm77
See this is where you and Buzz have the problem.
You and buzz are not=(parent)
Your both a (child)in your own state."

Disagree. Buzz and I, among many others are the state of Wyo.

"Remember the new mud hole the outfitters stomped in your a$$."

I most certainly remember that butt whippin', made it that much sweeter to bend them over on HB149

"The outfitters own the G&F and your wildlife."

The only thing the outfitters own are the nonresidents. Almost everything you dislike about hunting in Wyo is thanks to them.

"Lmao....Have at it boys!

Fyi: Pick battles you can win."

See 2nd answer above...

 

[nontypical]

Whether you like Buzz and Jeff's style is irrelevant. Rest assured they speak for many Wyoming residents...especially during the recent legislative session. Special interests won this year; next time they may not be so lucky...

I've had disagreements with both of these guys, and still disagree with both on different issues. I appreciate their passion and time spent on issues for resident hunters. Whether or not I like them is immaterial.

But I will tell you this: The crap I've heard from many nonresidents during the past legislative session has not endeared the NR hunter to me. Many times I have helped total strangers( nr) with information that enabled them to take some fine Wyoming animals. Some have become lifelong friends. Rest assured...those days are over.

 

[excavator]

>Whether you like Buzz and Jeff's
>style is irrelevant. Rest assured
>they speak for many Wyoming
>residents...especially during the recent legislative
>session. Special interests won this
>year; next time they may
>not be so lucky...
>
>I've had disagreements with both of
>these guys, and still disagree
>with both on different issues.
>I appreciate their passion and
>time spent on issues for
>resident hunters. Whether or not
>I like them is immaterial.
>
>
>But I will tell you this:
>The crap I've heard from
>many nonresidents during the past
>legislative session has not endeared
>the NR hunter to me.
>Many times I have helped
>total strangers( nr) with information
>that enabled them to take
>some fine Wyoming animals. Some
>have become lifelong friends. Rest
>assured...those days are over.


I apologize in advance for moving this thread away from it's intended topic. However, I feel part of this post is directed at me, and thus I will respond.

My original comments are not relevant to this thread topic; nor were they intended to be.

I don't know who Jeff is, but I do know who Buzz is, and he is largely an ass on this web site. There are no iffs, ands, or butts about it. I was spot on with my original characterization of Buzz with respect to how he represents himself on this site.

Similar to you, I don't have to like someone in order to work with them. However, I am not working with Buzz, and thus I don't see any issue about telling him what I think after seeing him consistently belittling people.

Out of respect for others on this "hunting" talk forum, I am done talking about this on a forum thread. If you wish to continue conversing on this, feel free to shoot me a PM.

Excavator

 

[elkantlers]

As a non-res I like the way Wyoming does there point system. It has led to many a family hunting trip.

With the points system you can absolutely plan for tags in the future.

Also, Points don't cause point creep, it is the increasing amount of applicants each year and fluctuating tags numbers.