>LAST EDITED ON Apr-22-16
>AT 08:54?AM (MST)
>
>Thanks for the post patea...
>
>I live in Utah. Here we
>have Premium Limited Entry units/hunts,
>Limited Entry units/hunts, and General
>season units/hunts. The public builds
>Bonus Points for the Premium
>and Limited Entry, and Preference
>Points for General Season.
>
>You are correct, the system is
>completely broken. While there are
>a few general season hunts/units
>in Utah that can be
>drawn every year, opportunity for
>deer in those areas is
>limited. Most general season hunts
>now take a point or
>two to draw. And they
>will experience point creep going
>forward as well.
>
>When I say broken, let me
>give an example. The Book
>Cliffs is the Limited Entry
>unit that is largest, has
>the most deer, and gives
>out the most tags. This
>makes it the "easiest" LE
>unit to draw. If you
>have a 14 year old
>that is putting in for
>the first time for that
>unit, let's say the North
>unit, with a rifle, he
>will have 2,520 people in
>front of him/her in line
>for that tag. As there
>are about 150 tags for
>that hunt, it will take
>17 years before all of
>the people in front of
>your child are gone. In
>fact, even that is not
>quite right as with the
>random draw tags, people "behind"
>your child will start drawing
>tags as well. Because of
>that, the higher your points,
>the more people behind you
>there are to draw tags.
>Anyway, it would not be
>unreasonable to anticipate that, though
>it only took 11 points
>to be guaranteed that tag
>in 2015, your child will
>take more like 20-22 years
>to be guaranteed that tag,
>relatively speaking, for the 'worst'
>Limited Entry Rifle tag in
>our state.
>
>Anyone who doesn't think that is
>a broken system, is nuts.
>
>
>There are a few ways to
>completely obliterate the point creep
>system.
>
>First: Utah DWR will have to
>do away with allowing people
>to put in for BOTH
>a limited entry AND general
>season hunt. Since our state
>now has both bonus points
>and preference points, everything is
>technically 'limited entry' anyway.
>By doing that, individuals have
>to make a choice as
>to whether they want to
>hunt more regularly on general
>season units, or less frequently,
>but on LE units. This
>would also likely eliminate, from
>the Premium/Limited Entry draws, thousands
>of people who hunt on
>private lands that are equal
>to some limited entry units
>in game quality. Those individuals
>would likely choose to hunt
>more regularly on the private
>land they are used to
>(with general season tags), rather
>than wait for LE tags.
>And, because others are opting
>for the LE draw, the
>private land hunters would likely
>be able to draw their
>general season tag where they
>hunt every year, offering them
>increase opportunity to hunt where
>they always have.
>
>Second: Purchasing CWMU tags is commensurate
>with putting in for and
>drawing a general season tag.
>What I mean is, if
>you put in for an
>LE draw in February, you
>are ineligible to purchase any
>CWMU tag for that same
>species that same year. This
>will require thousands of hunters
>(deer and elk) to choose
>between putting in for LE,
>or purchasing their CWMU tag.
>I think the majority will
>opt out of the LE
>hunts in favor of their
>CWMU hunts. If not, and
>they opt out of CWMU
>tags, then CWMU operators will
>have to do some advertising,
>and maybe even lower some
>prices in order to sell
>their tags. But I don't
>think that would be a
>problem. CWMUs get their money,
>those hunters get their yearly
>trophy, and the rest of
>us have increased opportunity at
>the LE tags. WIN-WIN-WIN.
>
>Third: No more buying bonus points/preference
>points. Being required to actually
>put in for the hunt
>will help reduce point creep
>as well. If an individual
>has chosen the LE path,
>they must put in for
>the hunt each year. I
>would not have a penalty
>of losing your BP/PP if
>you don't put in, but
>if you don't put in,
>you don't accrue a point.
>There is already a mechanism
>built in for turning tags
>in if your circumstances change
>and won't allow you to
>hunt, but if you put
>in for a tag in
>February, you better be planning
>on hunting that hunt, that
>year.
>
>Fourth: In order to really reduce
>point creep, Premium Limited Entry
>and Limited Entry units would
>become Once-In-A-Lifetime for all species.
>With this change there would
>be a couple thousand people
>that would only be able
>to hunt general season from
>that time on, but because
>it opens up the LE
>unit to be drawn more
>frequently, people from the general
>season pool would opt to
>wait several years for the
>LE tag, and could even
>out those numbers. I know
>some will say, "look at
>current OIL tags, their point
>creep is ridiculous!" Yes, I
>know, but with deer and
>elk it is different because
>of the option for general
>season hunting. Currently, OIL tags
>like Bighorn and Moose also
>allow you to put in
>for general season deer or
>elk, etc. As I have
>outlined above, my plan doesn't
>allow for that. You choose
>to put in for the
>LE tags until you draw
>them, and then you hunt
>general season forever after that.
>Or buy CWMU tags.
>
>Now, I don't exactly agree with
>the steps I've outlined above,
>but they are four tough
>steps that I think would
>"fix" the point creep in
>Utah. Tag numbers would stay
>the same, but people will
>have to start choosing what
>and where they want to
>hunt, and would not have
>"fall back" options when the
>better option doesn't work out.
>
>
>Also, because my plan would keep
>tag numbers relatively the same
>as they are now, the
>state can still manage for
>trophy animals in order to
>sell off tags at auctions
>and banquets and things. Nobody
>gets hurt there. And, those
>few hundred tags do generate
>a lot of money. And
>those people tend to pull
>a lot of strings... So...
>give baby their bottle.
>
>So, the super-rich get their cake
>(Auction tags). The rich get
>their cake (CWMU and private
>lands), and the rest of
>us can have increased opportunity
>for LE tags if we
>choose to. And we can
>all enjoy general season hunting
>more often.
>
>"Therefore, wo be unto him that
>is at ease in Zion!"
>2 Ne. 28: 24
I agree with most of this....although I don't live in planet Utah. When it comes to LE drawings it should be once in a lifetime per species and one choice a year. Idaho has it part right in that any controlled hunt drawing you must chose 1 species to apply for that year...do you really need to be allowed to put in for a moose, sheep, goat, trophy deer etc all in the same year, do you really need or even want to draw all those tags.