Predator Livestock Damage

gznokes · Dec 3, 2009

I'd be interested in hearing people's experiences with livestock damage due to predators. I know there are people on this site who can share their experiences on this subject.

For example, I was speaking with someone who said 7 bears were killed this year around a single large sheep herd in the mountains of Northern Utah this year. It was not a first hand account so who knows if the number was exagerated. Could the number be that high?

Is the majority of lifestock damage done by coyotes on sheep and lambs?

Do predators ever learn to stay away from livestock or is the temptation and instinct too great?

Coyote_chaser · Dec 3, 2009

Were those bears killed on public or private land?

Deuce · Dec 3, 2009

While scouting this past summer my partner and I found a snare baited and ready to go. On one of the trees next to it a sign was placed indicating any animals caught would belong to the government. This was at around the 9000 foot level. There were cows and calves all over the place. I wonder if anyone else have ever seen something like this?

REDDOG · Dec 3, 2009

>While scouting this past summer my
>partner and I found a
>snare baited and ready to
>go. On one of the
>trees next to it a
>sign was placed indicating any
>animals caught would belong to
>the government. This was at
>around the 9000 foot level.
>There were cows and calves
>all over the place. I
>wonder if anyone else have
>ever seen something like this?
>

The government ADC guys are excellent at setting snares and vacating/forgetting where they put them.Same with M44's in years past.

Too bad the bears didnt wipe out all the range maggots.

Disclaimer: yes I use wool. I also have several friends that run sheep, I help shear and dock in the spring, that dont mean I gotta like them on public land. I dare say the Cache mountains could sustain a good bighorn population if it weren't for the damn mutton.

Packout · Dec 3, 2009

I guess I have a few stories I can contribute.

My Dad was an 11 year old kid, left to herd sheep in Idaho. A bear got in the sheep one night and killed over 20. Our friends had a bear kill over 50 within 4 days on their ranch in No Utah. Sheep tend to bed in a group and a bear runs though them like a shark through a school of bait fish. It does not take long for them to kill multiple animals. Fed Trappers spend lots of time killing offending cats and bears.

Last Spring we were calving our heifers on pasture in a semi-developed area. When we pulled in the yard, we noticed one heifer was in labor. When we walked out to check a fox ran from behind her. The calf's face was eaten and the calf was dead. Well, it became a war zone for us. We shot 4 foxes in 3 days. A few days later we pull in mid-day to check again. One heifer was down calving and behind it was a fox, circling the end of the heifer. Killed that one 5 feet from the cow.

Our neighbor calved his herd of cows and had a heck of a time keeping the coyotes from killing the calves as they are being born. We also had coyotes eat a calf as it was being born and then they tore open the cow.

My Dad and I had a fancy, reg. quarter horse in a pasture in Alpine. It was a small 2 acre pasture behind our friend's home, but it boardered on open lands. One day I went to check on the horse and it was crazed and bloodied. When I finally got close enough I could clearly see a rake mark on its withers and 8 perfect holes on towards it's hind quarters. Obviously a cougar had attempted to make it dinner, but failed. The horse was ruined after that.

I have a few more about cougars and bobcats, but don't want to bore you all.

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www.sagebasin.com
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bigbuckchaser · Dec 3, 2009

>>While scouting this past summer my
>>partner and I found a
>>snare baited and ready to
>>go. On one of the
>>trees next to it a
>>sign was placed indicating any
>>animals caught would belong to
>>the government. This was at
>>around the 9000 foot level.
>>There were cows and calves
>>all over the place. I
>>wonder if anyone else have
>>ever seen something like this?
>>
>
>
>The government ADC guys are excellent
>at setting snares and vacating/forgetting
>where they put them.Same with
>M44's in years past.
>
>Too bad the bears didnt wipe
>out all the range maggots.
>
>
>Disclaimer: yes I use wool. I
>also have several friends that
>run sheep, I help shear
>and dock in the spring,
>that dont mean I gotta
>like them on public land.
>I dare say the Cache
>mountains could sustain a good
>bighorn population if it weren't
>for the damn mutton.

AND THE ENTIRE SLAT LAKE, UTAH, CACHE AND UINTA VALLEYS WOULD MAKE DANDY WINTER RANGE IF IT WEREN'T FOR ALL THE DAMN HOUSES LIKE YOURS! THOSE SHEEP PERMITS HAVE BEEN SOMEBODYS LIVELYHOOD FOR FOUR OR FIVE GENERATIONS. COWS PAY THE BILLS AT MY HOUSE. HERE'S HOPING YOU LOSE YOUR JOB IN THE NEAR FUTURE TOO! JACKASS!

gznokes · Dec 3, 2009

Packout, those are some interesting stories. Especially about the foxes. I've heard of foxes going nuts with birds but not on calves.

Just out of curiosity did you ever call the govt trapper to go after that lion?

D13er · Dec 3, 2009

I love those reading those stories packout....and I am amazed that your dad was only 11......early puberty obviously.

great post/pic, thanks for sharing

JB

Deuce · Dec 3, 2009

REDDOG, the snare was gone when the hunt came around it was marked with GPS and no where to be found.

Packout · Dec 3, 2009

D13er- My Grandfather took a job herding sheep after my Grandmother passed away. My Dad was too young to leave so my Grandfather took him along. Less than a month into the job my grandfather was hurt and had to return to Utah. So what the heck, might as well leave an 11 year old in charge of a couple thousand sheep for 4 months. Dad says when the bear attacked it was kind of scary, but he had 4 dogs to keep him company. Dad said his favorite time was when the owner showed up every 2 weeks and once he brought a watermelon. Not that you really wanted to know all that, but I like to tell it. Makes me wonder how our teenagers ever get by these days.

No, the gov't trapper wasn't called on the cat, but a friend of mine shot a giant tom just up the canyon a 1/4 mile from there that winter. Said he could hear people talking in their yards after they go the dogs moved away.

Here is another story for you guys. When I was 10 I bought 6 registered Suffolk ewes. They lambed in March and boy was I excited. When the lambs were about 2 weeks old, I went out to feed one morning and found 5 dead lambs. As you can imagine, I was rather upset. We didn't know what had done it, so we set some traps around one of the lambs. Next morning Dad went out to check and found what any 10 year old would believe to be the largest Bobcat on the Planet. It was huge, at least to my 10 year old eyes. Didn't loose anymore lambs that year.

Anyway, I saw a 2 foxes yesterday around the pasture. I guess I'll have to get them killed in the next 3 months.

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www.sagebasin.com
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ismith · Dec 3, 2009

If you guys think coyotes, foxes, and cats are bad, just wait till you get wolves!

Coyote_chaser · Dec 3, 2009

Bigbuckchaser I agree with REDDOG dont run your business on "our" public lands. If you want to run cows, do it on your property, not public lands. I would rather have my tax dollars go to something else. Public land ranching is nearing an end I feel.

longshooter338 · Dec 4, 2009

Bring on the wolves , We killed them all once we can do it again then i wont half to drive to idaho to do it.

Roy · Dec 4, 2009

Packout - I think D13er was referring to statement you made "my dad was an 11 year old" - meaning that you were fathered by an 11 year old which would indeed be feat of miraculous proportions! At any rate, it is quite a remarkable story. I have an 11 yr old right now and no way would I have been able to leave him on the mountain with a herd of sheep. But back then, kids grew up early.

I too came into possesion of a small sheep herd at a young age and though I would have hated to have seen them slaughtered by a nasty bobcat in the middle of the night, (had some kittens slaughtered by the neighbor's German Shephard's - that was bad enough!) I truly rejoiced the day we sold them and I was out of the sheep business for good. I really enjoyed putting that check in my savings account and buying a milkshake with the little I was allowed to keep. It was one of the best tasting shakes ever!

UTROY
Proverbs 21:19 (why I hunt!)

Ungulate · Dec 4, 2009

In elementary school my friend had a caged rabbit he kept in his garage. A mountain lion broke into his garage and managed to pry half of the rabbit out of the cage and eat it. You could only imagine the look on his face when he saw half of his rabbit pulled through a wire cage after inviting me over to feed it some carrots. He ended up breaking down and crying and having a fit so I just decided to go home.

I dont think he ever recovered from that sight. He has never been the same since. I managed to have a pretty good laugh at his misfortune. Never cared too much for rabbits anyways.

sageadvice · Dec 4, 2009

Ungulate, Not sure if that was supposed to be funny but i've been told that my sense of humor is half a notch off of normal. I'm laughing my head off!!

Thanks!!!

Joey

Pooner · Dec 4, 2009

Coyote Chaser, Ok heres an idea. Lets take off the sheep and cattle, then lets take off all the water projects that have been put in for the livestock. Then lets she how well the wildlife get water. Ok then lets argue they you would go up there with your personal money and put in new water systems. So what if once in a while sheep come through and move you elk. I bet people come through an area and push the elk out better than people. And honestly how much of your tax dollars go towards livestock grazing not very much. Also you may kill everything you eat. But I bet you like to go to the steak house and order a T Bone. Good luck getting that with no public grazing.

Coyote_chaser · Dec 5, 2009

LAST EDITED ON Dec-05-09 AT 09:42PM (MST)[p]Pooner about 130 million dollars each year of public tax payer money goes towards public land grazing. Thats how much it loses. Thats alot. As for water projects, gettin all the cows to stop laying in the streams and riparian areas all day would be a good start. I am sure MFD and RMEF and SFW would gladly fund guzzler projects, and they already do. Not to mention that about 3 percent of all beef in the US is produced on public lands. I just get sick and tired of hearing how everytime sportsman want herd increases we have to talk to livestock associations of all people to get their "go ahead". Its public land, manage it for the benefit of the public in general, not just a few ranchers. Thats all. And I am not against ranching at all, just do it on private property and treat it just like a private business, or if its going to be done on public land charge competitive AUM's per month. All public subsidies/government does is create waste and ineffenciency. If its private enterprise its always run more efficient.

PS sheep have wiped out many herds of Wild Sheep across the west. Costing sportsman hundreds of thousands of dollars. Just look at ID.