Post G3 Hunt Pondering

[Yalo]

Really enjoyed this year’s G3 hunter reports. Wish a half dozen more would report?

But my pondering post 2023 G3 zone hunt:

During discussions of the 2023 G3 hunts, we saw posts with requests for better or different herd management. One member suggested “2 point only” hunts and some wanted “3 point only hunts” to favor the gene pool of 4 points or better. And reduce the 2 and three point dominance? If I got the right?

In a sense this is what we do for every zone hunt. Folks are out for the big one and target them but take smaller bucks percentage wise usually. For instance, in X9A 30 percent of harvest in 2022 was 4 points or better. In X9B 76 percent of the take were forks and some of the deer in G3 reside in X9B all year? Just that in the G3 hunt time period, the odds favor the hunters to have a higher chance of taking 4 points or better for several reasons?

Is it a first come first serve situation? Less numbers of smaller bucks make it a greater chance of the larger bucks procreating?

To me all that management hunts do is reduce the numbers of 2 and 3 points, and not entirely sure if it enhances the 4 point gene pool? I am not on board at this time.

Did these management hunts mean no 4 or 5 point harvested hunts for those years?

Regardless, alternately one could also say halt the G3 hunt entirely periodically?

Do we know that the G3 hunt starts late enough for the trophy animals to breed? That is HS’s buck may not really have migrated much and little snow this year. For years now the Nov-Dec storms are not as cold or with large precipitation amounts in my experience to drive any larger bucks down to lower elevations? No snow right now at Tom,s Place and seen feet there at Thanksgiving?

My understanding is that some benches at 8000-9000 feet (2 to 3 thousand foot climb) hold deer similar to highsierra’s (HS) in October and his was at 7500? Regardless (HS) killed a fine buck. But no significant snow to speak of this year to drive him down?

Note, HS’s buck picture is of him bedded and the buck is not chasing does as many seem to do around December 2? Or does he come down at night? However not a wildwife biology person, but was not HS’s buck able to pass genes for the last several years as well?

Seems the thrust is larger bucks at times are the farthest from where the does are congregating on December 2? Not always though possibly? And HS indicated the larger bucks come down to service does at night. The consensus has been December 2 is enough time for the bulk of the rut to take place, and to pass the larger bucks’ genes? Maybe we are passing the genes and the larger bucks are well aware of how to stay out of hunter’s sights and remain unharvested or spotted, just wondering? Seen the larger horned bucks actually crawl to avoid detection and not seen smaller bucks do that?

Frankly do not believe anyone knows what the best management scheme for G3 is or any unit for that matter. Coupled with factors like genes, we have age, feeding habitat, predators, and or drought situations.

Of note we hunted another area in the late nineties and my hunting partner took a small fork (I passed on that one and all that day) and saw a small 3 pointer and a large wide and tall fork similar to G3 large forked horn bucks. We saw no 4 points or better?

Is this just a normal situation for the Sierras and not an indicator of trouble for the G3 zone hunt? For G3, the folks are seeing way more deer than they do in earlier season zones, so seems right to see more categories of deer? Are the antlered percentage numbers in G3 different than other areas typically? I do not know?

Looked at harvest statistics for G3 hunt seasons 2022, 2019 and 2017 and average 4 points harvested or better was 76.7 percent of harvest reported for those years? For hunt years 1998, 2001, and 2003 the average harvest was 59 percent of reported take? Notice reported and not estimated or accounting for non-reported kills? However, there is no data on spread or typical or non-typical horns or range conditions or horn mass to compare different time periods? My point is in years past my quick limited view of data was there were fewer 4 points or better racks harvested per the data percentage wise? Maybe more deer then and or folks did not bust their ass for bigger bucks since fairly large deer easier found?

Some are looking to the DFG to manage G3 better. In my opinion if lion populations or kills are not addressed a moot point in my opinion for any zone. And weather and habitat quality seem basically beyond their control?

Hiked a place in So Cal where I saw at least 8 large bucks during the post rut decades ago and now it is hard to find 8 tracks (before lion protection I might add). The DFG seems to have no solution that works for more numerous or larger deer for that area, so why expect some increase in trophy bucks in G3? We could hope? And all seem to agree that numbers of deer are down from years past so one would expect fewer numbers of larger rack animals one would think?

Like HS asked, maybe G3 remains a valid hunt zone. Considering that HS and Tek took fine animals in 2023, this probably meets the DFG’s goal for the area in providing a rewarding hunt in California for mule deer. But like my dad said, deer are where you find them, and G3 is a chance to actually find them still and be able to come up with comments like too many forks and three pointers? I say leave the small number-of-points- bucks alone, some may sprout a point or inch spread or two later?

 

[willfrye027]

Some good thoughts and questions you have.

I’ll chime in with what I’ve noticed on the other side of the divide in d7. Where as you probably know they issue more buck tags than we probably have on the landscape.

I enjoy viewing bucks on the winter range and do some shed hunting too.

Despite having NO real management other than season dates ending before much migration…there is a great variety of buck age class. I’m surprised every year with how many big, old bucks are running around in December.

They may not SCORE well, which I would argue is partly genetics but more so lack of ideal habitat/nutrition…but some are true studs that would be a no brainer to take on almost any western hunt. And the number of mature deer compared to young deer is actually very very good IMO.

What d7, and much of CA has is escapement. There is so much thick, remote, difficult to hunt terrain. Bucks can and do die from old age here (I find their dead heads on the winter range).

I think g3 is probably similar. Yes, a lot of the winter range is open sage and huntable. But there are surely plenty of remote hidey holes, and definitely not many tag holders willing to seek them out.

Beyond Mother Nature sending good moisture..I do not think there is much in the way of management that can “save” the deer herd. We’re just limited on the habitat, and probably predator standpoint. Our carrying capacity is low. Summer range pretty much sucks compared to the better mule deer states.

I don’t see californias deer herd “problems” as something that needs fixing or saving. It is what it is. Enjoy it.

 

[mulebuck]

Interesting thoughts Yalo. I agree with most of it. As you mentioned, at this point the best option would be shutting the hunt down. How long? At least 2-3 years and re-evaluate. However, we all know in this ridiculous state there’s a chance that it will never open back up.

Anyone that's seen firsthand what this area once held in terms of quality and/or quantity, would agree with a temporary closure. For those that have only witnessed it in recent years, interpretations may be skewed.

I think the unit’s downfall is mainly due to lack of management. Sure there are other contributing variables but it has simply been neglected for decades. Same applies for X9B, X9A & X9C. I believe the deer herds in Inyo/Mono county are at a historic low. The tag cuts in 2017 were far too late. Quotas should be changing annually (or at minimum every 2-3 years) in every unit. Why are the same management practices in place year after year when everything else around us is changing? There is near zero adaptability anymore. I would think a hard winter, severe weather event, over harvest, predator increase, etc should warrant a response.

Hunter advancements (long range weapons, optics, gear etc.) are a major factor as well. The bucks aren’t getting any smarter but our abilities to kill them get easier with each passing year.

Probably ruffle some feathers with his one but I can tell you right now that Goodale would be a better unit today, if tag holders over the last twenty years had to harvest without a posse. I’m guilty of it too but the amount of eyes per tag holder, whether its guides (whores) or friends & family nowadays is absolutely insane. AND everyone is connected now and wants some sort of glory. Seems like every big buck has a bounty. AND no one knows how to keep their face hole shut anymore.

Other than lack of management and hunter advancements, I ask myself what is the most noticeable difference from decades ago to now… BEARS. I know the lion population continues to grow up here but now we have a bear problem too. I can remember going a whole deer season between archery & rifle in the Sierras and never putting eyes on one. Some years maybe one or two at most. Nowadays there’s at least one in every damn creek drainage.

There were never bears in the Whites or Inyos until recently. Now they’re pretty frequent. Yet you can’t hunt them east of 395. State agencies can re-locate problem bears (because God forbid we dispatch it) from the Sierras to areas they can’t be hunted? Make perfect sense… to the folks that want to shut your way of life down.

If you enjoy our deer hunting, shed hunting, or just wildlife viewing, then I strongly suggest you plan a trip up here sometime to help us with our predator problem.

 

[LIK2HNT]

@mulebuck What town up there do you live in? Grew up in Bishop, but that was a looonnnggg time ago.

 

[Yalo]

Thanks for posts mulebuck and willfrye027. Interesting dialog. Never personnaly have seen mule deer hunting all that great in the Sierras since they had doe hunts in the early 60s from X-12 to X-10. Always wondered about that management decision?

And those as old as I am remember one deer tags were for any one deer zone as I recall and seasons 6-8 weekends at times! No G3 zone at that time either.

And changes, not deer but....a bird migrates through my area and I used to see a dozen or so in October, the last two years just a couple and in mid December!

And of course little snow pack this year similar to the drought years recently in the Southern Sierras. Storm tonight will be minimal at best is my read also, except in Northern California maybe? And to date no snow significant to drive deer down like folks were hoping for during the G3 season!

 

[buckhorn]

In my opinion, a good buck is not necessarily a four-point. There are many two and three points that have a better rack than a dinky four-point.
Often the statistics are misleading.

 

[willfrye027]

I wasn’t alive for it, but the stories and pictures of big bucks in the Sierra during the 60s, 70s, etc is pretty amazing. That thread of the 300” CA buck is a good example. My buddy has a deer from his father that is a 180” studly 4pt that looks like something from colorado.

Sure we have more lions and bears now. But I believe the major thing we had back then was better habitat. More logging, less drought, less encroachment on the winter range. Probably most important would be the logging and better summer range that just grew big healthy deer.

I wonder if we could transplant a measly CA mule deer into the gunnison basin…what it’s fawns and their fawns would look like in a generation or two of good feed and habitat. Our summer ranges now in CA look like chit..hopefully some of these fires can help with our lack of logging and hopefully we get some more wet weather for a few years.

 

[Snoopdogg]

The tag cuts in 2017 were far too late. Quotas should be changing annually (or at minimum every 2-3 years) in every unit.

They can change them every year. It's a built in range and approved yearly.

Why are the same management practices in place year after year when everything else around us is changing?

Many times, managers try to let nature be nature with the variances in weather and year-to-year populations.

I’m guilty of it too but the amount of eyes per tag holder, whether its guides (whores) or friends & family nowadays is absolutely insane.

Color me guilty. Been a spectator helper about 3 times in the last 10 years. Seen some great bucks taken and being able to see that many bucks in the open is still a draw.

I have only applied for G3 a handful of times over 30 years. I like hunting muleys (X zones) in Cali every couple of years.

 

[mulebuck]

Sure we have more lions and bears now. But I believe the major thing we had back then was better habitat. More logging, less drought, less encroachment on the winter range. Probably most important would be the logging and better summer range that just grew big healthy deer.

Our summer ranges now in CA look like chit..hopefully some of these fires can help with our lack of logging and hopefully we get some more wet weather for a few years.

I will agree with ya on having better habitat back then. However, logging and encroachment are not really part of the problem on the east side.
I would say our summer ranges are in pretty good shape still.

 

[BradA]

Interesting thoughts Yalo. I agree with most of it. As you mentioned, at this point the best option would be shutting the hunt down. How long? At least 2-3 years and re-evaluate. However, we all know in this ridiculous state there’s a chance that it will never open back up.

Anyone that's seen firsthand what this area once held in terms of quality and/or quantity, would agree with a temporary closure. For those that have only witnessed it in recent years, interpretations may be skewed.

I think the unit’s downfall is mainly due to lack of management. Sure there are other contributing variables but it has simply been neglected for decades. Same applies for X9B, X9A & X9C. I believe the deer herds in Inyo/Mono county are at a historic low. The tag cuts in 2017 were far too late. Quotas should be changing annually (or at minimum every 2-3 years) in every unit. Why are the same management practices in place year after year when everything else around us is changing? There is near zero adaptability anymore. I would think a hard winter, severe weather event, over harvest, predator increase, etc should warrant a response.

Hunter advancements (long range weapons, optics, gear etc.) are a major factor as well. The bucks aren’t getting any smarter but our abilities to kill them get easier with each passing year.

Probably ruffle some feathers with his one but I can tell you right now that Goodale would be a better unit today, if tag holders over the last twenty years had to harvest without a posse. I’m guilty of it too but the amount of eyes per tag holder, whether its guides (whores) or friends & family nowadays is absolutely insane. AND everyone is connected now and wants some sort of glory. Seems like every big buck has a bounty. AND no one knows how to keep their face hole shut anymore.

Other than lack of management and hunter advancements, I ask myself what is the most noticeable difference from decades ago to now… BEARS. I know the lion population continues to grow up here but now we have a bear problem too. I can remember going a whole deer season between archery & rifle in the Sierras and never putting eyes on one. Some years maybe one or two at most. Nowadays there’s at least one in every damn creek drainage.

There were never bears in the Whites or Inyos until recently. Now they’re pretty frequent. Yet you can’t hunt them east of 395. State agencies can re-locate problem bears (because God forbid we dispatch it) from the Sierras to areas they can’t be hunted? Make perfect sense… to the folks that want to shut your way of life down.

If you enjoy our deer hunting, shed hunting, or just wildlife viewing, then I strongly suggest you plan a trip up here sometime to help us with our predator problem.

Let’s go kill a couple bears next year and help out the deer herds!

 

[BradA]

Interesting thoughts Yalo. I agree with most of it. As you mentioned, at this point the best option would be shutting the hunt down. How long? At least 2-3 years and re-evaluate. However, we all know in this ridiculous state there’s a chance that it will never open back up.

Anyone that's seen firsthand what this area once held in terms of quality and/or quantity, would agree with a temporary closure. For those that have only witnessed it in recent years, interpretations may be skewed.

I think the unit’s downfall is mainly due to lack of management. Sure there are other contributing variables but it has simply been neglected for decades. Same applies for X9B, X9A & X9C. I believe the deer herds in Inyo/Mono county are at a historic low. The tag cuts in 2017 were far too late. Quotas should be changing annually (or at minimum every 2-3 years) in every unit. Why are the same management practices in place year after year when everything else around us is changing? There is near zero adaptability anymore. I would think a hard winter, severe weather event, over harvest, predator increase, etc should warrant a response.

Hunter advancements (long range weapons, optics, gear etc.) are a major factor as well. The bucks aren’t getting any smarter but our abilities to kill them get easier with each passing year.

Probably ruffle some feathers with his one but I can tell you right now that Goodale would be a better unit today, if tag holders over the last twenty years had to harvest without a posse. I’m guilty of it too but the amount of eyes per tag holder, whether its guides (whores) or friends & family nowadays is absolutely insane. AND everyone is connected now and wants some sort of glory. Seems like every big buck has a bounty. AND no one knows how to keep their face hole shut anymore.

Other than lack of management and hunter advancements, I ask myself what is the most noticeable difference from decades ago to now… BEARS. I know the lion population continues to grow up here but now we have a bear problem too. I can remember going a whole deer season between archery & rifle in the Sierras and never putting eyes on one. Some years maybe one or two at most. Nowadays there’s at least one in every damn creek drainage.

There were never bears in the Whites or Inyos until recently. Now they’re pretty frequent. Yet you can’t hunt them east of 395. State agencies can re-locate problem bears (because God forbid we dispatch it) from the Sierras to areas they can’t be hunted? Make perfect sense… to the folks that want to shut your way of life down.

If you enjoy our deer hunting, shed hunting, or just wildlife viewing, then I strongly suggest you plan a trip up here sometime to help us with our predator problem.

Also do you think the deer herd is in the same condition, worse or better in the more northern units such as x12 ?

 

[mulebuck]

Also do you think the deer herd is in the same condition, worse or better in the more northern units such as x12 ?

I'd say better than the southern end. Still going to be a tall order to find a mature animal though. I purposely did not reference X12 because I don't spend much time up there. However, back in July of last year I did see a bachelor group of 14. Haven't seen that many bucks running together in A, B, or C for quite some time.

 

[Yalo]

For those interested.

Most of the storms this winter dropped low snow amounts and it was relatively in higher altitudes in the slopes West of Independence than in years past in my observation? There have been years past more rain in Independence in one week than the amount of rain for this winter / Fall.

My research from one source shows Independence recieved from October 1 to March first, 45 percent of the average precipitation for the site.

Interesting where I live in the desert we have had flowers that I have not seen ever in my lifetime and they bloomed through the winter! One would guess becasue of the rain from the hurrican this last summer? But who knows? Pic attached.

 

[Wiszard]

I am having PTSD from knowing I'll never draw G3 again. I wish I still had 8 more days to hunt.

 

[Yalo]

A time after an early Fall snow in the G3 zone. Click on link below:

4 By having Lunch

 

[Wiszard]

Yalo- I've seen a couple of videos you've done and lots of your pics on G3/X9a...you have found a lot of good deer. I am hoping to get back up there to look for deer in December. When I hunted there last year, I didn't notice too many looky-loos at all. Never pulled up to my glassing point and had to move on due to someone being there. The mine road ALWAYS had cars at it which was frustrating. Needed to get there at 4 am I suppose. HS was prepared, beat everyone to the punch and killed a giant. I'd guess it was the largest buck killed in Cali last year. Never saw what the Super tag holder killed.

 

[Yalo]

Hope you can get out next December!

Amazed at how many deer have been in my video or pics that I never noticed when the media was captured till post review!

A buddy of mine and I tried to hike to the top of the mine road and we petered out. Anyone gone that far?

HS's deer was top drawer....Been with folks and glassed what appeared to be really great bucks in X9B...but none of us made the hike to them LOL.

I wanted to go to G3 in late November this last year with my brother. Made it March first this year and virtually zero sign of animals in Independence Creek up to the road closed sign. Almost no tracks or droppings! This time of year, years ago, one could walk thru the sage brush flats midday and jump dozens of deer?

Anyone seen deer in the G3 zone this winter? High or low?

 

[Yalo]

Not that exciting, but once this year I could see a buck in the picture from the Sage Flat camera... from the Great Basin Unified Air Pollution Control District website. Any camera known to be able to do such a thing in G3 area?

 

[highsierra]

I am having PTSD from knowing I'll never draw G3 again. I wish I still had 8 more days to hunt.

Hopefully you have some friends that are still "in the game" that you could accompany on a future hunt. Personally I still have know of two close friends that have max points and still apply for this hunt. If either draws, you know I'll be there!

 

[highsierra]

Hope you can get out next December!

Amazed at how many deer have been in my video or pics that I never noticed when the media was captured till post review!

A buddy of mine and I tried to hike to the top of the mine road and we petered out. Anyone gone that far?

HS's deer was top drawer....Been with folks and glassed what appeared to be really great bucks in X9B...but none of us made the hike to them LOL.

I wanted to go to G3 in late November this last year with my brother. Made it March first this year and virtually zero sign of animals in Independence Creek up to the road closed sign. Almost no tracks or droppings! This time of year, years ago, one could walk thru the sage brush flats midday and jump dozens of deer?

Anyone seen deer in the G3 zone this winter? High or low?

When you say "the top of the mine road" are you talking about the mine where the old yellow bulldozer is (Little Onion) at the top of the first set of switchbacks or all the way up the "zillions" of switchbacks toward Kearsarge pass? If it’s the latter, thats a BIG hike!

 

[highsierra]

Really enjoyed this year’s G3 hunter reports. Wish a half dozen more would report?

But my pondering post 2023 G3 zone hunt:

During discussions of the 2023 G3 hunts, we saw posts with requests for better or different herd management. One member suggested “2 point only” hunts and some wanted “3 point only hunts” to favor the gene pool of 4 points or better. And reduce the 2 and three point dominance? If I got the right?

In a sense this is what we do for every zone hunt. Folks are out for the big one and target them but take smaller bucks percentage wise usually. For instance, in X9A 30 percent of harvest in 2022 was 4 points or better. In X9B 76 percent of the take were forks and some of the deer in G3 reside in X9B all year? Just that in the G3 hunt time period, the odds favor the hunters to have a higher chance of taking 4 points or better for several reasons?

Is it a first come first serve situation? Less numbers of smaller bucks make it a greater chance of the larger bucks procreating?

To me all that management hunts do is reduce the numbers of 2 and 3 points, and not entirely sure if it enhances the 4 point gene pool? I am not on board at this time.

Did these management hunts mean no 4 or 5 point harvested hunts for those years?

Regardless, alternately one could also say halt the G3 hunt entirely periodically?

Do we know that the G3 hunt starts late enough for the trophy animals to breed? That is HS’s buck may not really have migrated much and little snow this year. For years now the Nov-Dec storms are not as cold or with large precipitation amounts in my experience to drive any larger bucks down to lower elevations? No snow right now at Tom,s Place and seen feet there at Thanksgiving?

My understanding is that some benches at 8000-9000 feet (2 to 3 thousand foot climb) hold deer similar to highsierra’s (HS) in October and his was at 7500? Regardless (HS) killed a fine buck. But no significant snow to speak of this year to drive him down?

Note, HS’s buck picture is of him bedded and the buck is not chasing does as many seem to do around December 2? Or does he come down at night? However not a wildwife biology person, but was not HS’s buck able to pass genes for the last several years as well?

Seems the thrust is larger bucks at times are the farthest from where the does are congregating on December 2? Not always though possibly? And HS indicated the larger bucks come down to service does at night. The consensus has been December 2 is enough time for the bulk of the rut to take place, and to pass the larger bucks’ genes? Maybe we are passing the genes and the larger bucks are well aware of how to stay out of hunter’s sights and remain unharvested or spotted, just wondering? Seen the larger horned bucks actually crawl to avoid detection and not seen smaller bucks do that?

Frankly do not believe anyone knows what the best management scheme for G3 is or any unit for that matter. Coupled with factors like genes, we have age, feeding habitat, predators, and or drought situations.

Of note we hunted another area in the late nineties and my hunting partner took a small fork (I passed on that one and all that day) and saw a small 3 pointer and a large wide and tall fork similar to G3 large forked horn bucks. We saw no 4 points or better?

Is this just a normal situation for the Sierras and not an indicator of trouble for the G3 zone hunt? For G3, the folks are seeing way more deer than they do in earlier season zones, so seems right to see more categories of deer? Are the antlered percentage numbers in G3 different than other areas typically? I do not know?

Looked at harvest statistics for G3 hunt seasons 2022, 2019 and 2017 and average 4 points harvested or better was 76.7 percent of harvest reported for those years? For hunt years 1998, 2001, and 2003 the average harvest was 59 percent of reported take? Notice reported and not estimated or accounting for non-reported kills? However, there is no data on spread or typical or non-typical horns or range conditions or horn mass to compare different time periods? My point is in years past my quick limited view of data was there were fewer 4 points or better racks harvested per the data percentage wise? Maybe more deer then and or folks did not bust their ass for bigger bucks since fairly large deer easier found?

Some are looking to the DFG to manage G3 better. In my opinion if lion populations or kills are not addressed a moot point in my opinion for any zone. And weather and habitat quality seem basically beyond their control?

Hiked a place in So Cal where I saw at least 8 large bucks during the post rut decades ago and now it is hard to find 8 tracks (before lion protection I might add). The DFG seems to have no solution that works for more numerous or larger deer for that area, so why expect some increase in trophy bucks in G3? We could hope? And all seem to agree that numbers of deer are down from years past so one would expect fewer numbers of larger rack animals one would think?

Like HS asked, maybe G3 remains a valid hunt zone. Considering that HS and Tek took fine animals in 2023, this probably meets the DFG’s goal for the area in providing a rewarding hunt in California for mule deer. But like my dad said, deer are where you find them, and G3 is a chance to actually find them still and be able to come up with comments like too many forks and three pointers? I say leave the small number-of-points- bucks alone, some may sprout a point or inch spread or two later?

My buck was spotted in around 10 AM in his bed. There was a group of 6 to 8 does bedded down and to the left of him not visible in the photo posted. I would assume he had been rutting them earlier that morning or the previous night. This is very much the same as what we experienced several years ago when another good buddy had the tag. There were numerous bucks hanging around a group of does. One was pushing the 30 inch mark… but was young, spindly, and had weak forks. We spent hours picking apart the landscape with our glass before finally catching some antler tips 100 yards or so away from where all the activity seemed to be. It took hours of examination before being confident that this well concealed buck was, in fact, old and gnarly…. Which is what we were looking for. We never saw this buck on his feet until almost 4:30 PM that afternoon. Rarely did he even move throughout the day. Super smart! When finally stood up my buddy made an outstanding 450 yard shot to immediately put him down. I have a sneaking suspicion that most hunters do not find bucks like this, because they are distracted by the other younger bucks that are far more visible. The old smart ones stay hidden until darkness sets in… Then go about their business. You’ve got to be able to find them in their beds, and that takes good glass, tremendous patience, and the unwavering believe that they ARE there.

Photo of my friends buck… spotted at 950 yards.

 

[LIK2HNT]

My buck was spotted in around 10 AM in his bed. There was a group of 6 to 8 does bedded down and to the left of him not visible in the photo posted. I would assume he had been rutting them earlier that morning or the previous night. This is very much the same as what we experienced several years ago and another good buddy had the tag. There were numerous bucks hanging around a group of does. One was pushing the 30 inch mark… but was young, spindly, and had weak forks. We spent hours picking apart the landscape with our glass before finally catching some antler tips 100 yards or so away from where all the activity seemed to be. It took hours of examination before being confident that this well concealed buck was, in fact, old and gnarly…. Which is what we were looking for. We never saw this buck on his feet until almost 4:30 PM that afternoon. Rarely did he even move throughout the day. Super smart! When finally stood up my buddy made an outstanding 450 yard shot to immediately put him down. I have a sneaking suspicion that most hunters do not find bucks like this, because they are distracted by the other younger bucks that are far more visible. The old smart ones stay hidden until darkness sets in… Then go about their business. You’ve got to be able to find them in their beds, and that takes good glass, tremendous patience, and the unwavering believe that they ARE there.

View attachment 139024
Photo of my friends buck… spotted at 950 yards.

Now let’s see the grip and grin photo

 

[highsierra]

Now let’s see the grip and grin photo

Ok….here ya go:

 

[Wiszard]

Ok….here ya go:

View attachment 139026

View attachment 139027

Did you guys kill on the same day or was this the second day?

 

[highsierra]

Did you guys kill on the same day or was this the second day?

We killed that buck back in 2018. He was killed the same day that he was spotted. Found him mid-morning in his bed...worked in closer and then shot him we he finally stood up very late in the afternoon. This was the second weekend of the season.

 

[LIK2HNT]

Ok….here ya go:

View attachment 139026

View attachment 139027

Great character and mass.

 

[Yalo]

@HS Yes the mine road. To the top a 3000 foot climb I think. I made it past the bulldozer. Done a 3000 feet climb in a day but not that day. Knew guys that purposely climbed to 11k from 5K in a day for the thrill but not me LOL.

 

[Yalo]

@HS thanks for detailed hunt description....know a couple of times glassing I said I know they are there....but never materialized LOL

One thing I have done is snap pictures with your best camera on different hillsides when out. I review the pics when home again. Not much luck there either but interesting thing for me to do!

 

[highsierra]

@HS Yes the mine road. To the top a 3000 foot climb I think. I made it past the bulldozer. Done a 3000 feet climb in a day but not that day. Knew guys that purposely climbed to 11k from 5K in a day for the thrill but not me LOL.

The bulldozer isn’t too much of a climb…but once you cross back over the ridge and start up Sardine Canyon it gets real. Have always wanted to ascend up to Sardine Lake then run the ridge to Dragon Peak before returning via Parker Lakes and down the South Fork of Oak Cr. I’m sure that’s a route very few attempt. Probably some sheep up there…maybe even some big bucks…Hmmmm, maybe I should be applying for an X9b tag before I get too old!

 

[Yalo]

HS tweaking me up for a hike now.

 

[Wiszard]

HS- Can you bring one of these with you and install for the rest of us?

 

[Yalo]

@HS Do you think your deer harvested this year might be in that area all year? Or migrated into the area?

 

[highsierra]

@HS Do you think your deer harvested this year might be in that area all year? Or migrated into the area?

Good question. No way of knowing for sure. What I can say is that his physical appearance looked a bit different that the bucks I have typically seen in the unit over the years. The Inyo mule deer subspecies that are most prevalent seem to be of a smaller (shorter coupled) size and have shorter snouts than the Rocky Mountain Mule Deer found to the east. Mine looked much more like the Rocky Mountain Mule deer I've taken in Nevada than the other Inyo Mule Deer I've seen harvested in this G3 hunt. Although unlikely, I gotta wonder if he may have migrated across the Owens Valley from the Inyo's in search of females to rut. Stranger things have happend.

 

[Yalo]

Well folks about to think about hunting next Fall? Follow-up on my rain fall in the Owens Valley / Eastern Sierra hunt areas this past winter primary focus on G3 zone area(s).

On March 5 of this year, I listed the percentage of normal yearly rainfall received for Independence, California, at 45 percent since Oct 1 2023. (rain year is Oct 1 to Sept 30). This area did not seem to me to be getting all that much snow or rain? And snow levels seemed higher than usual? Figured folks hunting in 9B, X9C and G3 hunt zones might be interested? I tried to update the rainfall percentage for Independence California as of April 1 this year, but my usual sources of rainfall data are not able to cough it up yet? Rain seems to be a core player in our game birds and mammals’ existence. So, I turned elsewhere!

Two sources of rainfall maps show some correlation with each other and the following falls out:

The Death Valley area shows basically more than 150 percent of normal rain from Oct 1 2023 until now? And generally, precipitation is above or at normal East of the Southern Sierras this rain year so far?

The Sierras West of Bishop to Lone Pine show like 70 to 90 percent of normal with areas in a one portion of this corridor 25 to 70 percent of normal precipitation on one rain map? What the heck? Sort of unexpected since Haiwee and Bishop are about 100 percent of normal to date. What was striking to me was that there was more percentage of normal rain in the Inyo’s than Sierras boarding Tulare and Fresno counties by April 1?

Some other locations of interest here?

Bodie (X-12 zone) 96 percent of normal precipitation by April 1…Driven by 230 percent of the monthly average for March!

Lake Sabrina (X9B zone) 121 percent of normal precipitation by April 1

Lee Vining (X9A Zone I think) 86 percent of normal by April 1..Driven by bigger dump in February!

Conclusions: The peak rain season is about over for most of the state. My conclusions are none really, most of the state seems to have received normal precipitation or better, but the G3 zone seems maybe less than normal for those wanting to hunt in X9B or G3 except the Lake Sabrina data point above of 121 percent? To put it in my personal perspective, the best year for seeing big bucks in Inyo County for me was 2010 with 110 percent of normal precipitation in the Sierras for the year. One of the worse years for spotting bigger bucks for me was 2021 which shows 35 to 45 percent of normal precipitation for that year in the Sierras? Lower browse in 2021 like eating sticks! At present precipitation somewhere in between the worst and best for me in the Sierra region so seems like average year? It is what it is whatever a web site documents or I perceive it.

Hold on? Since I wrote this, I dug deeper and what the heck. Using several sources for average rainfall in Independence and another site that just listed rainfall per month in Independence and no percentage of yearly amounts or to date expected amounts, I came up with Independence received approximately 50-55 percent of expected rainfall by April 1! If correct my intuition was spot on there has not been that much rain and snow in the Independence corridor? And matches longitudinally that with 20-70 percent of rain area map in the sierras I mentioned earlier? My explanation is storms from the south move to Nevada before hitting Indepencence this year and storms from the North pass over Bishop and head towards Nevada?????

There were five points or better deer harvested last year in X9B, A and C and X12, and as I recall no detailed reports on this web site for those areas? Geez can we not get more reports from those areas each year? Or other areas as well? Might help folks decide on hunts to apply for in the coming year(s)?

 

[willfrye027]

Well folks about to think about hunting next Fall? Follow-up on my rain fall in the Owens Valley / Eastern Sierra hunt areas this past winter primary focus on G3 zone area(s).

On March 5 of this year, I listed the percentage of normal yearly rainfall received for Independence, California, at 45 percent since Oct 1 2023. (rain year is Oct 1 to Sept 30). This area did not seem to me to be getting all that much snow or rain? And snow levels seemed higher than usual? Figured folks hunting in 9B, X9C and G3 hunt zones might be interested? I tried to update the rainfall percentage for Independence California as of April 1 this year, but my usual sources of rainfall data are not able to cough it up yet? Rain seems to be a core player in our game birds and mammals’ existence. So, I turned elsewhere!

Two sources of rainfall maps show some correlation with each other and the following falls out:

The Death Valley area shows basically more than 150 percent of normal rain from Oct 1 2023 until now? And generally, precipitation is above or at normal East of the Southern Sierras this rain year so far?

The Sierras West of Bishop to Lone Pine show like 70 to 90 percent of normal with areas in a one portion of this corridor 25 to 70 percent of normal precipitation on one rain map? What the heck? Sort of unexpected since Haiwee and Bishop are about 100 percent of normal to date. What was striking to me was that there was more percentage of normal rain in the Inyo’s than Sierras boarding Tulare and Fresno counties by April 1?

Some other locations of interest here?

Bodie (X-12 zone) 96 percent of normal precipitation by April 1…Driven by 230 percent of the monthly average for March!

Lake Sabrina (X9B zone) 121 percent of normal precipitation by April 1

Lee Vining (X9A Zone I think) 86 percent of normal by April 1..Driven by bigger dump in February!

Conclusions: The peak rain season is about over for most of the state. My conclusions are none really, most of the state seems to have received normal precipitation or better, but the G3 zone seems maybe less than normal for those wanting to hunt in X9B or G3 except the Lake Sabrina data point above of 121 percent? To put it in my personal perspective, the best year for seeing big bucks in Inyo County for me was 2010 with 110 percent of normal precipitation in the Sierras for the year. One of the worse years for spotting bigger bucks for me was 2021 which shows 35 to 45 percent of normal precipitation for that year in the Sierras? Lower browse in 2021 like eating sticks! At present precipitation somewhere in between the worst and best for me in the Sierra region so seems like average year? It is what it is whatever a web site documents or I perceive it.

Hold on? Since I wrote this, I dug deeper and what the heck. Using several sources for average rainfall in Independence and another site that just listed rainfall per month in Independence and no percentage of yearly amounts or to date expected amounts, I came up with Independence received approximately 50-55 percent of expected rainfall by April 1! If correct my intuition was spot on there has not been that much rain and snow in the Independence corridor? And matches longitudinally that with 20-70 percent of rain area map in the sierras I mentioned earlier? My explanation is storms from the south move to Nevada before hitting Indepencence this year and storms from the North pass over Bishop and head towards Nevada?????

There were five points or better deer harvested last year in X9B, A and C and X12, and as I recall no detailed reports on this web site for those areas? Geez can we not get more reports from those areas each year? Or other areas as well? Might help folks decide on hunts to apply for in the coming year(s)?

Hard to draw conclusions..in Fresno county we’re somewhere between 80-90% of normal rainfall. This is on the heels of obviously a great water year last year, so theoretically soil moisture should be good.

Up on the Sierra crest we had so much snow last year…in September the forage looked more like June. I’d imagine there was exceptional feed up on the crest for the migratory part of the herd in x9a. And this year we’re pretty close to average.

I think it’s fairly complex but personally I’d like to believe the summer feed is the most important.. with great water year last season and good conditions so far I would be cautiously optimistic for the coming years. Of course with super hot spring and no summer rains in the high country it could turn out to be a short growing season, but time will tell.

And yes, most of the storms we had seemed to split Fresno county north and south for the most part (same with X9) so I believe your precipitation numbers are reasonable.

 

[Yalo]

@willfrye027

Thanks for info and Fresno is basically the same latitude as Independence! Meant latitude in my original post I see I put longitudinally. Meant the spot in the Sierras rain map showing 20 to 70 percent rain accumalation is basically due West of Indpendence? As is Fresno?

By the way I visited Independence Creek mid March and my impression was the hillsides and flats very dry! Anyone else that can confirm?

 

[LIK2HNT]

Thanks for the update.

 

[willfrye027]

@willfrye027

Thanks for info and Fresno is basically the same latitude as Independence! Meant latitude in my original post I see I put longitudinally. Meant the spot in the Sierras rain map showing 20 to 70 percent rain accumalation is basically due West of Indpendence? As is Fresno?

By the way I visited Independence Creek mid March and my impression was the hillsides and flats very dry! Anyone else that can confirm?

Yep we are due west of independence. On our side of the mountains it’s fairly wet and green, although after our years of drought I think my perspective is skewed..