PoorManagement part 2...lol

[cantkillathing]

There has been 2 main arguments, to reduce tags for more quality, and give more tags to have less success but opportunity.

Why not do both?

Cut all the early rifle tags in half.

Cut the Muzzy by 1/3

Triple your archery tags.

Double your late season tags.

Cut your auction tags by 2/3,

Those that want to wait can continue to wait for tag, and those that want to hunt can hunt harder conditions and you will have less success on those tags.

Change the point system so that if you draw and early rifle tag or muzzy tag you wait the 5 years, If you draw archery or Late season tags then there is no wait period. If you purchase a tag then you dont get to apply, because you should be waiting 5 years after each time you have a tag.

 

[rubble]

I'll admit. I see logic there.

But, what about spike and cows? Hahaha. That's the big debate. How would your plan handle those.

 

[cantkillathing]

Mainly the spike and cow tags are to help population size. Each unit should be managed separate and only sale spike tags accordingly

 

[roadrunner]

>Mainly the spike and cow tags
>are to help population size.
> Each unit should be
>managed separate and only sale
>spike tags accordingly

Or make it a draw option for each unit specifically. The Central Manti could support way more spike tags than the San Juan could...

And quit hunting cows non-stop from Aug to Jan. You only hunt a cow during the elk season, not deer, and moose, and sheep, and goat, and antelope just because you also hold a tag for one of those species in the same unit your cow tag is for.

 

[Shadow]

There isn't one unit that couldn't handle some spike hunting (despite what the 400 club contends) because we don't need countless bulls on units that will never be harvested. Hell, if I was an elk, nobody would waste a bullet on me, I don't have the genes. Not every bull will finish out huge, just like some people will never be 6? tall. However it needs to be limited based on unit and herd size . Apply for the area you want but be warned, some are tougher to draw. A spike free for all on the Books, San Juan, Pahvant and other smaller units is destroying count and quality. Wasatch, Fishlake and Manti are big herds and can handle it. And I like Roadrunners thoughts on the cow seasons. It's absolute BS that every cow elk gets lead thrown her way every time she dared to stick her head out by some rifle deer hunter.

 

[rubble]

Refreshing. Finally hearing lots of common sense in this thread.

 

[OpeningDay]

I am on board!! I am curious what comes up in debate against a plan like this. Patiently waiting.

 

[rubble]

I don't think there could be a debate, this makes too much sense. It's actually more methodically thought out than what's going on now, and took these guys a couple sentences to come up with a far better plan than what's currently out there.
What's going on now isn't creating opportunity, it's destroying current & future opportunity.

 

[notdonhunting]

I like the fact there is a solution offered not a blame game. I would back something off this nature it is thinking out of the box. Influence choices not punish and take away.

 

[cantkillathing]

I am sure we could tweak this some.
Maybe if you don't harvest a bull then there is no waiting period, and if you harvest a bull then you wait the 5 years, then it gives incentive for those that Want to be selective.

Also you could split the archery and have 2 different hunts. First 2 weeks as one hunt 2nd 2 weeks as the second hunt.

Just a couple more options

 

[rubble]

see with this plan, folks that want more opportunity, archery is the way to go.

Seriously. How can one propose changes? RAC?

Too late for me. I just hate to see a great place like books ruined.

 

[roadrunner]

"It's absolute BS that every cow elk gets lead thrown her way every time she dared to stick her head out by some rifle deer hunter."

Absolutely. I have seen the dramatic change on the San Juan unit. What went from a fairly normal cow elk hunt in Dec, being able to fill a tag in a couple of days in normal situations, cows hang out at higher elevations where bulls do until they absolutely have to move into wintering habitat.

 

[rubble]

Amen. I'd wager the books is way worse than SJ. Never been to SJ, but books is terrible. Poor elk have zero time with no pressure. There is no management on cows and spikes. It's a free fir alll.

 

[Shadow]

You should try finding elk on the General muzz, 3 days after the rifle deer hunters scattered them helter skelter. I've learned to steer clear of areas that have any significant amount of cow tags because without a major weather change, they stay pretty holed up. I get the reasoning behind cow tags and agree they're needed to control populations but the nonstop pressure from mid August to late January is ridiculous.

 

[Tikka]

>Amen. I'd wager the books is
>way worse than SJ.
>Never been to SJ, but
>books is terrible.
>Poor elk have zero time
>with no pressure.
>There is no management on
>cows and spikes.
>It's a free fir alll.
>


Not to mention a paved highway through the unit that slaughters deer, elk and buffalo....

 

[rubble]

I hear ya. I don't set foot on general units anymore. Luckily I have property I hunt with elk. But, most people don't have that. Glad to hear some good ideas on this thread. Makes me feel like I'm not crazy.

 

[rubble]

Yeah I'm sure that don't help either.
I'll tell ya what else annoys me.

Dry year, we still paid full price for water assessment, but was shut off first of July.

However, there were still thousands of cattle running on the books into October. Those cows should have been pulled a long time ago. Dry year, they should have been told ?too bad?. Just like we were. The feed situation there is scary.

Not to mention all the 1000s of horses, which destroy the feed. They graze it down to the root. Plus paw the sh)& out of it ruining that piece.

So my opinion is they kill too damn many cows and spikes, plus the poor game animals are competing with cattle for very little feed.

 

[elkantlers]

So, there isn't enough feed for the animals that use the range now, but you think we are killing too many spikes and cows. So how does that make any sense at all.
I would love to see 99% of the wild horses shot, cattle AUM's slashed in half and twice as many elk and deer, But we live in a real world, not make believe.
The range will only support what it will support.

 

[rubble]

Makes perfect sense.
They kill too many spikes. Not saying to eliminate it. Like the other fellow says, any unit I'm sure can handle some spike hunts. The free for all in the books is wrong. It needs managed. Have you ever been there recently? I just can't see how people that truly get out don't see the negative impact it's had. Again I'm talking about only the books.

Ijust pointing out a fact, just in case the dwr is using cattleman?s whining to justify the slaughter. Yes the feed is scary, but the elk will find food, even if it's on the several farms in the area.

If low feed is their justification for the slaughter, there are ways to call BS. One eliminate 1000 horses, two make the cattlemen pull their heard earlier.

Don?t know the answer. The original poster on here laid out the best plan I've heard yet that should satisfy all. My plan would be zero spike and cow hunts. But that's proven unpopular. It works for the tribe though.....