Ponts LEAP

[packhorse]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-03-13 AT 05:20PM (MST)[p]After reviewing the link in the Colorado Statics thread it appears that the unit I was looking at (66 third rifle Deer) went from 9 to 12pp. OUCH! I also noticed that second season remained unchanged at 7pp. Is this strictly supply and demand or are there other factors? I was planning on putting in for it this year, but only have 11 pps. I could draw second season but noticed the moon in near full the first several days of the hunt. I think I'll wait until 2014 even if I have to settle for second season at least the moon will be "right". Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated.

 

[ColoradoOak]

I'm guessing that people were just avoiding the Gunnison units a bit more in 2011 than 2012, due to the bad winter in 07-08. There were 5 more tags issued in 2012 (30) than 2011.

And, not to depress you more, but it seems like the PP required this year was mis-calculated. There were 9 tags issued to non-residents in 2012. If you look at the Hunt Recap, there were 2 applicants with 16pp, 5 with 14pp, and 7 with 13pp. So it seems like the correct number should be 13pp minimum to draw in 2012.

By comparison, in 2011 (for 7 tags) there was 1 applicant with 14pp, 2 with 11pp, 3 with l0pp, and 15 with 9pp.

 

[ColoradoOak]

Something else to note. If you go back to 2007, before the bad winter, there were 55 tags issued during 3rd season and 228 non-resident applicants. And back then, there was a 4th season in 66 which likely siphoned many non-resident apps off of 3rd season (139 4th season apps in 2007). In 2012 there were 30 tags issued and 136 non-resident applicants and no 4th season.

My point is, there are likely a lot of people building points and waiting for conditions to improve. So it is reasonable to expect that point creep, or leap, may be fairly substantial in those units for years to come. The upshot is that next week the Wildlife Commission will approve a new herd management plan for 66 and 67 which will both increase the population objective for those units, and slightly lower the buck to doe ratio objective. That means that, as long as the herd continues to rebound, they will be issuing more tags there.

The new DAU plan:
http://wildlife.state.co.us/SiteCollectionDocuments/DOW/Commission/2013/Jan/ITEM23.1c-DraftD25.pdf

 

[tx_packmule]

I'd expect that trend to continue with folks wanting to hunt it but giving it time to rebound. You'll have folks who have sat an extra 5-6yrs on pts that have been buying vouchers for the area that will finally start dumping pts as the vouchers increase in price. Almost makes you wish they'd open a 4th season with 3-5 tags to get those points dumped sooner.

 

[ColoradoOak]

To your point tx, the new herd management plan will mean that CPW could bring back the 4th season sooner in 66 and 67 if they want. Criteria for having a 4th season is that the unit be at or above the buck:doe objective over a 3 year average, AND above 25 bucks:100 does. Lowering the minimum objective from 40:100 to 35:100 will speed that "recovery." With the last two years' ratios being 29 and 39, a good result this winter could boost the 3 year average over the required 35:100.

Keep in mind that during the recent heyday of these units, the buck:doe was 50+:100, which will likely never be seen again.

 

[zekers]

After seeing this post I looked up 67 3rd for my uncle. It jumped from 7 to 9 points. I think I could hear him throw the phone.

 

[leonard]

Has anyone heard rumors about the CPW restarting point banking program in the next five year season structure?

 

[Waygoner]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-04-13 AT 08:18AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jan-04-13 AT 08:13 AM (MST)

If you think point creep is bad now, just wait until the proposed increase in landowner tags is approved. The Landowner Voucher Program Committee has recommended that the CPW increase landowner tags by 5%-10% statewide. This comes out of the total pool of licenses, so less tags in the draw means more points.

 

[ColoradoOak]

>LAST EDITED ON Jan-04-13
>AT 08:18?AM (MST)
>If you think point creep is
>bad now, just wait until
>the proposed increase in landowner
>tags is approved. The Landowner
>Voucher Program Committee has recommended
>that the CPW increase landowner
>tags by 5%-10% statewide.
>This comes out of the
>total pool of licenses, so
>less tags in the draw
>means more points.


Coming to a legislature near you very soon. They will try to fast-track it through, so if you want any chance of getting it killed or modified, sportsmen will have to be ready and willing to start making phone calls and writing letters. Too often the sportsmen of this state assume these things are "done deals" and put zero effort into fighting them.

 

[tailchasers]

Letters sent.

I encourage those along with ColoradoOak to contact you state legislatures and give them an ear full or you can bank on the PP issue to become an even bigger issue real soon. No fooling folks this is the real deal!!

"Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway."

 

[tailchasers]

http://www.leg.state.co.us/clics/clics2012B/cslFrontPages.nsf/HomeSplash?OpenForm

Here's link with all our state legislatures contact information and what committees they are on. If anyone needs assistance locating their legislature please let me know and I'll help ya out.

Al

"Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway."

 

[tx_packmule]

I don't doubt that they're around 1:4 but the age structure on those bucks still seems to be about 2 or 3 yrs off. I really don't see anything wrong with a 1-1.5:2 either but the focus then needs to be lowering total population on both sides of the ratio. A 4th season could at least start the PR campaign to show they were trying to do things right before the next big winter kill hits.


Mixed feelings on the LO vouchers being from TX, where things operate differently. I noticed in the Basin this year the number of cattle had shot up again and places I had only seen hay getting baled on in the past had gotten leased out for grazing further lowering CC. It's a slippery slope to deal with when a lot of your private lands are part of the winter ranges.

 

[leonard]

Back to unit 66. Were there any good bucks taken in the 2nd or 3rd this past year In 66? I'm not worried about hunting in the 2nd season wIth the moon phase. I just havent been down In that area for several years and I have 7 res. pp and I am consIderIng usIng thIs fall to be able to hunt with my brother/nephew who will be elk hunting the 2nd season.

 

[ColoradoRam]

On another website I saw pictures of two nice bucks taken muzz in 66. Not positive but they were both 180-185. If you can draw I wouldn't wait. The deer herd in the basin will never come close to what it was prior to the winter of 2006.

 

[leonard]

ColoradoRam - Thanks, that is what I was hoping. I have seen multiple bucks from 67 shot in the 3rd since 2010 that were 160-180 inch bucks. So I was thinking unit 66 should be similar.

I remember driving out from two elk hunts after the 1st season in 06 and 07 and seeing multiple bucks around Powderhorn that I would have taken in second if I had a permit. Been waiting and applying for a tag ever since. In 07 I think it was 4 PP for a resident for the 2nd season tag and tag numbers cut in half 08 and more in 09. I do understand now it was unrealistic for that many bucks to be roaming around a unit.

 

[ColoradoRam]

http://www.huntingclub.com/connect/forums/aft/193394

Please don't nuke the post, just trying to help

 

[ColoradoRam]

http://huntdrop.com/hunt/monster-first-muledeer

Another one..... just do a Google image search and you can usually tell what's going on in the real world as opposed to internet bs. Best of luck in your decision.

 

[leonard]

Dandy bucks. Will do a image search. If the tImIng was dIfferent I would try to draw a unIt 67 3rd season wIth probably the same number of poInts. To be able to hunt them closer to the rut. Thanks

 

[tx_packmule]

Either of those units can do good, the genetics are there to produce good deer.