POLL: Utah Trail Camera Ban

[Founder]

So let's see what kind of support there is for trail cameras being banned in Utah from August 1st to December 31st. This poll is just for trail cameras, not the baiting. We can do separate one for that. What do you think? And share the poll so we can see what others think.

Bill Details:

Section 1. Section 23-13-20 is enacted to read:
23-13-20. Trail cameras.
(1) As used in this section, "trail camera" means a device that is not held or manually operated by a person and is used to capture images, video, or location data of wildlife using heat or motion to trigger the device.
(2) Except as provided in Subsection (3), it is unlawful for a person to place, maintain, or use a trail camera or similar device:
(a) at any time during the period beginning August 1 and ending December 31 of each year;
(b) at any time during the period beginning July 1 and ending December 31 of each year if the trail camera or similar device wirelessly transmits or is capable of wirelessly transmitting images, videos, or location data of wildlife; or
(c) at any time, if the placement, maintenance, or use of the trail camera or similar device prevents wildlife from accessing, or alters the manner in which wildlife accesses, a spring, water source, or artificial basin that collects water or is designed and constructed to collect water.
(3) Subsection (2) does not apply to:
(a) a person who is acting within the scope of the person's official duties if:
(i) the person is an employee or authorized agent of the state, a political subdivision of the state, or the federal government; and
(ii) the person clearly marks each trail camera or similar device to indicate ownership;
(b) a person who places, maintains, or uses a trail camera or similar device with the division's approval; or
(c) a person who places, maintains, or uses a trail camera on private property with the landowner's permission.

HB0295

le.utah.gov

 

[utah450]

I haven't been following this stuff, but I really enjoy using my trail cams. I hadn't thought that so many people have problems with them.

Seems like a good way to cause riffs between hunters and issues with hunters trying to police each other. I am a little bit surprised that this issue is being taken around the RACs and Wildlife Board and straight to the legislature.

 

[elkassassin]

utah450 Whizzes Before He Leaves Town & Doesn't Whizz again till He's off the Mountain in His Neck of the Woods!

 

[elkassassin]

Let's Get at Least 49 Other things Banned While We're at it!

Banning JUST Trail Cams Ain't Gonna Fix the Problem!

But Hey!

Let's Study Banning each item for 5 years,one at a time,and Never Fix the Problems!

 

[RuggedCountry]

So I hear alot of people say we need to "fix the problem(s)" I am curious to hear what everyone thinks and feels what the problem(s) is/are?

I am not in support of one side or the other, just want to understand sides of the poll. thanks in advance!

 

[BrowningRage]

So if you mark it with your name, you can still use it.? Thats stupid. What is the intent here.? To reduce the use of trail cams, or to know who is putting them out.? What the crap does identifying ownership do to help wildlife.?

 

[elkassassin]

Yup!

I Kinda Expect a 'TRAIL-CAM USE FEE"!

Or a License You Have To Purchase To Use the Trail-Cams!

Regardless!

If there are Laws Banning them it'll Be the Honest Sportsmen that Pay the Price!

Like I've Mentioned many a times!

When the Mini-Cams Show up they'll basically go Un-Noticed!

Banning Trail-Cams Alone Fixes Nothing!

WHEN "HELL-RIGHT" is acknowledged & In Force You'll See the QUALITY of Game Herds Slowly Come back!

But Until Then just keep Chipping away with Attacking 1 Problem when in Reality there are 50+ Issues!

So if you mark it with your name, you can still use it.? Thats stupid. What is the intent here.? To reduce the use of trail cams, or to know who is putting them out.? What the crap does identifying ownership do to help wildlife.?

 

[Elkslayer2015]

So I hear alot of people say we need to "fix the problem(s)" I am curious to hear what everyone thinks and feels what the problem(s) is/are?

I am not in support of one side or the other, just want to understand sides of the poll. thanks in advance!

Technology is what the big problem is...
1# Vehicle collision
2# Long Range /Bows/Muzzy/Rifle is a big factor here.
3# Access roads For Atv/Side by Sides
4# Poor Management
5# Baiting
This pretty much sums it up....
Trail cams are least of our worries. It don't phase my world if they get rid of them it sucks for my kids because we enjoy going out on the weekends and checking cameras so i guess will go fishing instead....

This should of went threw the RAC.

 

[buckhorn]

So if you mark it with your name, you can still use it.? Thats stupid. What is the intent here.? To reduce the use of trail cams, or to know who is putting them out.? What the crap does identifying ownership do to help wildlife.?

I think what that means is if the camera was being used for official business such as by DWR or BLM. Then it needs to be tagged appropriately.
At least that’s the way I understood it when I read the bill.

 

[jkass]

I think what that means is if the camera was being used for official business such as by DWR or BLM. Then it needs to be tagged appropriately.
At least that’s the way I understood it when I read the bill.

so whats to say somebody finds one of those "appropriately tagged" cams and decided he was going to "appropriately tag" his cam with the same info.

 

[hossblur]

I haven't been following this stuff, but I really enjoy using my trail cams. I hadn't thought that so many people have problems with them.

Seems like a good way to cause riffs between hunters and issues with hunters trying to police each other. I am a little bit surprised that this issue is being taken around the RACs and Wildlife Board and straight to the legislature.

After years of watching the corporate hunting industry and its lobbyist $fw do nothing but create the issues, its not that surprising

 

[buckhorn]

so whats to say somebody finds one of those "appropriately tagged" cams and decided he was going to "appropriately tag" his cam with the same info.

Good point

 

[elkassassin]

 

[cannonball]

So if you mark it with your name, you can still use it.? Thats stupid. What is the intent here.? To reduce the use of trail cams, or to know who is putting them out.? What the crap does identifying ownership do to help wildlife.?

I believe you mis-read that. You must mark it and you are a person who is acting within the scope of the person's official duties. I am all for it and the next one on my list for complaints is baiting.

 

[middlefork]

I believe you mis-read that. You must mark it and you are a person who is acting within the scope of the person's official duties. I am all for it and the next one on my list for complaints is baiting.

Did you actually read the bill? Baiting is right below the trail cam language. Along with other things.

 

[deadibob]

Let's Get at Least 49 Other things Banned While We're at it!

Banning JUST Trail Cams Ain't Gonna Fix the Problem!

But Hey!

Let's Study Banning each item for 5 years,one at a time,and Never Fix the Problems!

That sounds great to me. Get 'er done. Let's start with those long range Remington and Paramount muzzleloaders.

 

[llamapacker]

Trail cameras should be banned. There will be very few placed for official use, and only those for official use need to be so labeled. And for the guy trying to mark his camera as "government" property, be prepared to lose your camera and be fined appropriately.

The problem is particularly acute in Southern Utah, where virtually every water source has multiple cameras. The wildlife literally has no place to hide. The cellular based cameras transmit images in real time, keeping track of individual animals all year long.

While less of an issue in better habitat, it is only a matter of degrees. Do you now need 80 cameras to cover a drainage, or maybe 150 cameras? With the cost of cameras so low, and posse hunting so prevalent with finders fees, etc., for large animals, the game doesn't stand a chance.

Get out and hunt, enjoying the experience and adventure. Something is lost for everyone when you know others are keeping the woods under surveillance 24/7.

Bill

 

[buckhorn]

That sounds great to me. Get 'er done. Let's start with those long range Remington and Paramount muzzleloaders.

Yes and don’t allow the scopes on those long range muzzys either.

 

[grizzly]

It appears several people misunderstand the "labeling" portion of the trail cam bill. What it says is the ban doesn't apply if you work for the government, are acting in official capacity, and properly mark the cam to show ownership.

a person who is acting within the scope of the person's official duties if:
(i) the person is an employee or authorized agent of the state, a political subdivision of the state, or the federal government; and
(ii) the person clearly marks each trail camera or similar device to indicate ownership;

________________

Cameras ARE banned for public land hunters after Aug 1st. There is NOT an exception if your camera is labeled.

 

[grizzly]

so whats to say somebody finds one of those "appropriately tagged" cams and decided he was going to "appropriately tag" his cam with the same info.

Then he's violating wildlife laws while hunting.

He's a poacher. And should be treated as such.

 

[elkassassin]

There's a Few Things To Remember deadibob!

I Don't Shoot Big Game Animals!

The Paramount isn't Even Put Together Yet!

And The Paramount Will Probably Be Super-ceded This Year with Something Better!

My Remington SmokePole Is Considered SHORT-RANGE in todays World Bob!

That sounds great to me. Get 'er done. Let's start with those long range Remington and Paramount muzzleloaders.

 

[Dang big]

Using one of these rifles doesn’t make it a automatic 500 yard killer someone has to spend tons of time and learning to be accomplished with them the avg hunter won’t have the time or money to spend to develop loads shoot hundreds of rounds and implement during hunting situations
That said they are really fun once you have figured them out

 

[Elkslayer2015]

It appears several people misunderstand the "labeling" portion of the trail cam bill. What it says is the ban doesn't apply if you work for the government, are acting in official capacity, and properly mark the cam to show ownership.

a person who is acting within the scope of the person's official duties if:
(i) the person is an employee or authorized agent of the state, a political subdivision of the state, or the federal government; and
(ii) the person clearly marks each trail camera or similar device to indicate ownership;

________________

Cameras ARE banned for public land hunters after Aug 1st. There is NOT an exception if your camera is labeled.

Yes grizzly you are correct. The problem with allowing government to still run cameras.

#1 The guides know most of these biologist probably all the biologist in every unit and they still will get pics from them.

#2 If a family member or friend works for the DWR they will give them pics.

I feel like if the banned is going to happen all cameras should be pulled.
Why does the Government need to run them anyways past August 1.

 

[llamapacker]

I think you misunderstand the intention of the government being able to put out trail cameras. For the most part, they are used for surveillance of closed roads, etc., and sometimes to catch those in roadless areas. Also, there are some legitimate studies that benefit from trail cameras. Given the level of government funding, and even "laziness", there won't be government trail cameras on every waterhole and behind seemingly every tree.

I have no problem with the government maintaining this tool for enforcement and habitat study projects. I can't imagine the entire DWR being sufficiently funded or even motivated to put out even the same number of cameras as 1 guide in southern Utah.

The number of trail cameras on public land is out of control. And government cameras are probably less than 0.01% of the total.

Bill

 

[cannonball]

I have several friends who use trail cameras and bait and they don't even like it, but do it because they can. Don't just blog, talk to someone('s) with clout that can help us get rid of them.

 

[pumaguy]

Kind of strange the private landowners can still have cameras out. Maybe a wildlife board member had something to do with that?

I'm for rights, but this is fishy.

 

[Founder]

Kind of strange the private landowners can still have cameras out. Maybe a wildlife board member had something to do with that?

I'm for rights, but this is fishy.

I’m sure it’s because it’s impossible to enforce the law on private property. My guess.

 

[grizzly]

Kind of strange the private landowners can still have cameras out. Maybe a wildlife board member had something to do with that?

I'm for rights, but this is fishy.

I'm not too worked up about that part. As long as baiting is still banned on private property, I'll take the win.

 

[Elkslayer2015]

I think you misunderstand the intention of the government being able to put out trail cameras. For the most part, they are used for surveillance of closed roads, etc., and sometimes to catch those in roadless areas. Also, there are some legitimate studies that benefit from trail cameras. Given the level of government funding, and even "laziness", there won't be government trail cameras on every waterhole and behind seemingly every tree.

I have no problem with the government maintaining this tool for enforcement and habitat study projects. I can't imagine the entire DWR being sufficiently funded or even motivated to put out even the same number of cameras as 1 guide in southern Utah.

The number of trail cameras on public land is out of control. And government cameras are probably less than 0.01% of the total.

Bill

I disagree I had 12 trail cameras on my LE elk hunt 10 out of the 12 cameras I was running had DWR cameras right below mine.
I talked to the DWR biologist that was checking them they run a tons of cameras and they do it for the DWR study’s and also the RMEF and the MuleDeer foundation and I bet every other foundation...

It don’t bother me either way but those pics will get into hands of family members and guides and all of the other foundation at some point money talks in this state.

 

[elkassassin]

Like that'll be Patrolled & Enforced!

You Really Think You're Gonna Tell Some Private LandOwner They Can't Bait on their Own F'N Property?

Let Me Know How that Works Out?

I'm not too worked up about that part. As long as baiting is still banned on private property, I'll take the win.

 

[grizzly]

Like that'll be Patrolled & Enforced!

You Really Think You're Gonna Tell Some Private LandOwner They Can't Bait on their Own F'N Property?

Let Me Know How that Works Out?

They can't shoot at night on private property either. But if they're poachers, they're poachers. We all know dirtbags exist.

 

[elkassassin]

What I'n Sayin grizz is this:

They're Overstepping their F'N Boundaries!

No Different than Telling Me I Can't Pick a Shed Antler up On My Property unless it's during Shed Season!

 

[Dirt_Road_Warrior]

They can't shoot at night on private property either. But if they're poachers, they're poachers. We all know dirtbags exist.

Uh yeah anyone can shoot on their private land after it gets dark. They just can’t “hunt” after dark. Just because a gun is being discharged after the sun goes down doesn’t mean it was fired at an animal.

 

[Dirt_Road_Warrior]

What I'n Sayin grizz is this:

They're Overstepping their F'N Boundaries!

No Different than Telling Me I Can't Pick a Shed Antler up On My Property unless it's during Shed Season!

Boundaries? Since corona they’ve been overstepping their boundaries on everything. This is just another example. They think they can tell you do do whatever and whenever they want now

 

[grizzly]

What I'n Sayin grizz is this:

They're Overstepping their F'N Boundaries!

No Different than Telling Me I Can't Pick a Shed Antler up On My Property unless it's during Shed Season!

Wrong. The State has the right to regulate big game hunting, including methods of take, seasons, weapon restrictions, etc...

Your argument is as stupid as saying, "If an elk is on my property, they can't tell me to not shoot it."

If this bill passes and you shoot big game over a bait pile, you've illegally hunted big game and you're a poacher.

Just because somebody doesn't agree with a wildlife law doesn't mean they can ignore it. That's like saying, "I hunted Henry Mountains when I was little and now they made it Limited Entry. Well, screw that, it's public land and public deer so I'm going hunting." That guy would be a poacher, too.

We don't get to pick and choose which hunting laws we decide to keep. You're either a law-abiding hunter, or you're not.

 

[grizzly]

Uh yeah anyone can shoot on their private land after it gets dark. They just can’t “hunt” after dark. Just because a gun is being discharged after the sun goes down doesn’t mean it was fired at an animal.

Was it not clear I was referring to shooting at an animal?

Boundaries? Since corona they’ve been overstepping their boundaries on everything. This is just another example. They think they can tell you do do whatever and whenever they want now

Haha. You really think Utah banning hunting over bait (something already banned in nearby states and even in Utah for waterfowl) is somehow a political attack on liberties and warrants the "they think they can tell you to do whatever and whenever you want now" line?

 

[elkassassin]

Hey grizzly!

I Grow Alfalfa/Grass Mix So the Deer Have something to Eat & So My Kids/Grand-kids can see/View/Enjoy the Deer!

Is That Considered CHUMMING?

Somebody gonna Make a Law saying I Can't Do it?

JFYI!

They can Pass any Law they Want to Including Banning TRAIL-CAMS!

I Will Have a Trail Cam on My Own Property if I Decide to Set one Up!

That'll Be My Choice!

And Nobody is gonna Tell Me Different!

Your Argument is as STUPID as Togpotee Saying it's OK to Take AR's/BLACK GUNS(Can I Say That?) but doesn't want them Taking His Favorite Elk Rifle!

I Never Said I was gonna Shoot/Poach a Deer Or Elk on My Property!

And Then You're Saying I Can't Shoot at Night on My Own F'N Property?

You'd BEST Re-Phrase & Say:You can't Hunt & Shoot Big Game & Other Animals that are Protected from Being Hunted during them Hours!

I Can & Will Shoot at night on My Own Property Animals such as Coon,Skunks,Coyotes,Fox!

DON'T TELL ME "I CAN'T SHOOT ON MY OWN PROPERTY AT NIGHT"!

 

[Finn]

You guys are amazing. According to the poll, some 70% of you think this is great and/or want even more hunting restrictions. 1/3 of you think giving land management authority to the Wildlife Board is a good thing. Snider is the same guy who just recently brought us the "constitutional right to hunt" nonsense which is also supported by Utah "hunters". That's one way to put PETA out of business, I suppose.

 

[grizzly]

They can Pass any Law they Want to Including Banning TRAIL-CAMS!

I Will Have a Trail Cam on My Own Property if I Decide to Set one Up!

That'll Be My Choice!

And Nobody is gonna Tell Me Different!

Trail cams are legal on private property. You know not of what you speak.

Glad you're all riled up with your righteous indignation over something that isn't even real ?

Calm down. Read the law. And if the law passes, obey it. It's pretty simple.

 

[Nevadahunter]

Trail cams are legal on private property. You know not of what you speak.

Glad you're all riled up with your righteous indignation over something that isn't even real ?

Calm down. Read the law. And if the law passes, obey it. It's pretty simple.

I’m sure he’s coming up with a bad grammar response and a space between every sentence. ?

 

[elkassassin]

Hey grizz!

You Need To Re-Phrase!

You Said:They Can't Shoot at Night on their Property!

Depends on what They are Shooting!

 

[elkassassin]

Don't Worry Nevadahunter!

If I get too Far out of Line with My GRAMMAR!

We've Got Homer around to Straighten My Ass Out!

I’m sure he’s coming up with a bad grammar response and a space between every sentence. ?

 

[backinthegame]

Several threads on this subject...copying and pasting...my vote on this poll is that the bill needs more work. Not wholly opposed to bans/restrictions to cameras or baiting necessarily.

The biggest issue with HB295 is that it has been brought by a single state legislator based only on his opinion on the matters. Zero data, zero research...in fact, no mention of what goal is trying to be accomplished (harvest reduction? wildlife harassment? we literally have no idea) with the bill and impending law. Not only that, but the bill purposefully sidestepped the normal process for wildlife regulations in this state, the RAC committees, meaning no public input was allowed.

I am not at all automatically opposed to trail cam regulations and/or baiting bans, but all of us as hunters should demand better...even if you agree with this particular issue and would like to see cameras and/or baiting gone, that's just fine, but the process should not work this way. A single legislator should not be able to bring and push a bill based solely on his own personal agenda. What happens when the next legislator doesn't like trapping, or doesn't like the idea of hounds for lions or bears, or any other number of "controversial" outdoor-related issues? Slippery slope.

Do a little reading on Casey Snider's "reasoning" for bringing the bill and you will see nothing but one man's opinion. Zero data. Do cameras, cell or otherwise, increase harvest statistics? I don't know. Possible they do, but having that info available (among other data points) as part of this would be a nice start, no?

This SL Tribune article has zero fact, only opinion, hearsay, and hyperbole at best (outright lies at worst). To say there is not a single water source in the state without "dozens" (Casey has used "a half-dozen" at times as well) is not true at all. Implying that hunters are getting a text message that a deer is at the apple pile and killing it 5 mins later is a pretty damn broad brush to paint with, but any non-hunter that reads that article will likely agree (as many of us would) that a scenario such as that is wrong. Problem is, again, there if very little (more like any) proof this is actually happening outside of an isolated incidence here and there, someone's brother-in-law's buddy did it type of thing.

Read the article. Read some of Casey's posts online about the bill.

‘We’ve taken a little bit of the hunt out of hunting’: Utah lawmaker seeks to ban baiting, trail cameras

Rep. Casey Snider, R-Paradise, has introduced a bill, HB295, that would ban the use of bait and trail cameras in big game hunting. Many hunters, including Snider, consider such practices unethical and believe they are becoming too widespread in Utah to the detriment of wildlife.

www.sltrib.com

 

[deadibob]

There's a Few Things To Remember deadibob!

I Don't Shoot Big Game Animals!

The Paramount isn't Even Put Together Yet!

And The Paramount Will Probably Be Super-ceded This Year with Something Better!

My Remington SmokePole Is Considered SHORT-RANGE in todays World Bob!

You misspoke. You meant to say that Remington is considered short-range IN YOUR HANDS!
Sorry sometimes I can't help myself

 

[deadibob]

If there is a "season" for trail cams everyone of them should require an identification number just like leghold traps do.

 

[3Fingerbrown]

Trail cameras have commodified hunting. The largest animals are babysat by the top outfitters with all their trail cameras and then sold off to their rich clients paying huge trophy fees. The blue collar guy that that applies for 20 years and finally draws a tag in the same area doesn’t stand a chance against these teams of corporate killers and their legions of cameras.

The slippery slope argument doesn’t convince me. If it is a bad idea it shouldn’t pass, if it is a good idea it should pass. People are not so stupid as to say “well we banned trail cams so let’s also ban ————.“ That is silly. Ban trail cameras and force all hunters to get out and scout an area with their own eyes.