POLL: Should Hunting Show Gets Tags?

[Founder]

The Western Hunting and Conservation Expo is happening this weekend. To help drive attendance, the Utah DWR provides 200 tags in a special draw. To apply, you must visit the building where the expo is happening. You don't have to go to the expo, but have to be there in person to apply.
(I think most of you know the details)

The question is......should this be happening? Do you support it or no? Vote in the poll and feel free to expand on why you feel one way or another.

 

[Tristate]

I would like to elaborate on why I support these tags and the expo. One of the largest problems threatening hunting isn't the anti-hunting movement. Its non-hunters. Non-hunters fail to see how hunting effects their lives. When there is an expo such as this and a tag drawing it encourages people from other places and states to come there and spend money. Money spent at businesses who do not normally think they are effected buy hunting. Suddenly they are and in a positive way. When I travel for hunting I am very vocal about what I am doing there ESPECIALLY WHEN I M PAYING FOR GOODS OR SERVICES. I want them to know hunters dollars from far away are coming right there to help their communities. THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT. Do I like what they do for conservation and we hunters? You bet. But I also see the bigger picture.

 

[elkfromabove]

While I haven't attended the Expo since a few years before my father passed away (about 2008), I have no objections to it being held. AND, I have no objections to the 200 tag draw being used as an incentive for other hunters to attend. However, I would like to see them to go back to the original format and promised procedures that got the draw started.

1) From what I've been told by some of those who were there at the beginning, the results of this draw were to mirror the Conservation Program, ie; 90% mandated back to wildlife/DWR and 10% to the Expo Partners. That isn't happening now and hasn't happened since the program started in 2007.

2) The contract was to be a 5 year contract with no extensions. That also isn't happening now.

3) There was to be a fair and open bidding process for the Expo Tag Program. That isn't happening, IMO!

4) There was to be a clear and public annual accounting of the 90% wildlife/DWR funds and the projects paid for by those funds. That also isn't happening, IMO.

5) The original 2 year tag make-up was:
2007- LE-56%, OIL-4%, Cougar-4%, Bear-2.5%, Turkey-33.5%.
2008 - LE-55%, OIL-5.5%, Cougar-5.5%, Bear-2.5%, Turkey-33.5%
Then:
2009 - LE-70%, OIL-9.5%, Cougar-5.5%, Bear-2.5%, Turkey-14%
Now - LE-79%, OIL-7%, Cougar-3.5%, Bear-5.5%, Turkey-2.5%, Antlerless elk-2.5%.

There are also a few other things that I question, but I don't know whether they were initially discussed or agreed upon. In any case, I would like them addressed in the future:
1) Using DWR assets to promote the Expo.
2) Mis-advertising the tags/hunts as "$5 tags/hunts".
3) Referring to the draw as just another "public draw".
4) Dismissing the OIL rule that exists in the standard public draw. (See above)
5) Using the success of the Expo as leverage with the RAC's and Wildlife Board to approve other proposals.

 

[elkassassin]

They're Booked up to at least 2027 as we speak!

Doesn't Look like it's going anywhere anytime soon!

 

[roadrunner]

I agree that non-hunters would contribute more to the decline of hunting than anti's.

I do not, however, think the 200 tag allotment should stay. A few maybe, but not 200.

 

[hossblur]

I would like to elaborate on why I support these tags and the expo. One of the largest problems threatening hunting isn't the anti-hunting movement. Its non-hunters. Non-hunters fail to see how hunting effects their lives. When there is an expo such as this and a tag drawing it encourages people from other places and states to come there and spend money. Money spent at businesses who do not normally think they are effected buy hunting. Suddenly they are and in a positive way. When I travel for hunting I am very vocal about what I am doing there ESPECIALLY WHEN I M PAYING FOR GOODS OR SERVICES. I want them to know hunters dollars from far away are coming right there to help their communities. THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT. Do I like what they do for conservation and we hunters? You bet. But I also see the bigger picture.

You do realize those non hunters read. Monday there will be stories written on how many hundreds of thousands the AI tag went for. Those same people will read how that tag is "saving AI".
Then they drive out to AI and see the same hillside, covered in the same grass. On top of that they read that KUIU, NOT SFW, bought sheep to stock the Island and it takes 30 seconds to see it for what it was and always has been.

If you are worried about financing, and I am, you push for either a bigger tent, or expanding the source.

Taking the money the 5-10% of the population that hunts, and spending it in SLC, doesn't do anything for either.

It's the same guys spending. If their budget is $300, it's $300 in SLC, or Reno, or Portland.

If you want to improve finances you go the route Missouri did. Or you get the "backpack" tax and "birdwatcher" tax.

Taking $5 spent in the name of conservation, and siphoning of 2/3 of that to fund a special interest isn't helping anything.

No one cares if $fw runs a show. Honestly no one cares of they get a handful of tags like the other groups get, and they auction them off.

According to $fw own website, last year the expo made over $8million. $fw spent $800k on conservation.

So, simple math says there is $7.2 million somewhere. Some went back to gov tags in other states. Or other states auctions.

BTW. Valentine's is usually a big weekend for hotels and restaraunts. I doubt it was as impactful as you claim.

 

[hossblur]

And further. Let's pretend those 200 were absolutely necessary for financing.

Would it not benefit the far/state to rotate them?

5 years with $fw
5 years RMEF
5 years MDF
5 years NWTF
5 years DU.

If your actual concern was to maximize revenue by auctioning off tags, that's how you would do it.

The tags sell themselves. But if you truly believe Wildlife should benefit, then you move tgem around to benefit Wildlife.

 

[Tristate]

You completely missed the content of the post again.

 

[hossblur]

You completely missed the content of the post again.

Did I?

90k Utah Deer hunters.
20k elk
20k bird/smallgame/turkey/waterfowl

50k attendees at expo. And that's total, not just Utah.

Seems there is a ton of money sitting home.

So IF you actually believe those welfare tags are necessary, then you should believe maximizing the revenue is best.

If you are pro the tags, you'll follow them whoever has them. If you bidding 1000x times tag value, $50k for a deer, you are going wherever that tag is.

Believe it or not, I'm jot the only guy who doesn't support the expo because of $fw.

So, you didn't get my $$$

$fw didn't get the contract based on their ability to generate more money. They got it on some fairytale on data security and that they couldn't put on a show.

Which were pretty laughable.

So are you for maximizing revenue for conservation? The system now doesn't.

 

[Tristate]

Again that wasn't what my post was about. Go back and read please.

 

[hossblur]

I did.

The poll wasn't asking about should the BE a show. It was about SHOULD THET GET TAGS.

You don't need welfare tags to have a show. You don't need welfare tags to stay at a hotel, buy gas, eat food.

The downtown area of SLC has shows every week. You didn't convince any of them how important hunting is. It's just another weekend with another show/expo.


And not one nonhunter, waitress, uber, maid is going to think, "hey sure is good Utah gives $fw 200 welfare tags"

But again, the poll was on should the show have the tags. Perhaps YOU should go back and read. And while you are there, look at the results

 

[Tristate]

Still missing the point. Go back and read.

 

[hossblur]

You realize when WLH "buys" 2 pauns tags, the actual buyer is on the phone, right?

So they spent the grand total of zero dollars in the state.

I'm sure the local economy appreciates that

 

[Tristate]

That's my point of the 200 tags. You have to come there in person. Thanks for proving my point.

 

[hossblur]

That's my point of the 200 tags. You have to come there in person. Thanks for proving my point.

$fw keeps 2/3 of the money for those. Not a lot of "conserving" going on with those.

If you were for maximizing the 200, you take ALL the money from tgem for "conservation"

 

[droptynes]

I vote they only get the tags if everyone can register and be in the draw. Even pay half the admission then be able to draw. Something like that.

 

[3TOE]

IMO the people that are attending the expo are outdoorsmen / women. Our small group does more for conservation & wildlife than any of the anti hunting tree hugging groups.
That being said, I don’t see how this boosts attendance other than those people with far deeper pockets than the average guy here on MM. That guy that can drop 40K on a deer rag just screwed you, your kid or your grandkid out of a tag.
I have watched the almighty dollar deprive the average guy of hunting opportunities to the point that many have just given up. It’s so difficult now to even draw a tag in the states regular draw system that people just stop applying. Back east where there isn’t a draw landowners lease their property for hunting rights. Most properties where I come from go for $10-$20 per acre. If you can’t afford a lease, you end up hunting government land. If you have never hunted government land back East I’m here to tell you, it’s damn hard to introduce a child to hunting & keep their attention when you hunt days on end & never see a deer. I’ve obviously started ranting, but I don’t see the fairness in it. If EVERY dollar spent on those tags went to conservation, improving habitat, hiring additional game wardens etc... maybe I would have a different opinion.

 

[Tristate]

Yes Hossblur. There are people who believe other people should have to provide services to them for free. Luckily the State of Utah and your boss aren't those people.

 

[Tristate]

3toe,

Your kids can go put in for the draw for those 200 tags. Its actually a second chance for them and you.

 

[NVBighorn]

The Ignore button is your friend. It sure made the political forum a faster read.

Ignore Bistate!!!!

 

[3TOE]

3toe,

Your kids can go put in for the draw for those 200 tags. Its actually a second chance for them and you.

My mistake... I didn’t catch the “special draw” when I read through the original post. My assumption was that the 200 tags were like the other “Conservation Tags” like UT gives to organizations like RMEF, NWTF ETC...
I started my rant without clearly reading the post.
That being said, I still don’t support it. I would love to go to the expo, but I’m not going to drive 5+ hours to get there especially just to enter a draw. I donate more than my fair share as it is without throwing them an extra $50 for a tag that I have a snowballs chance in hell of drawing. Leave the tags in the statewide draw for the residents / non-residents whichever pool they were taken from.

 

[3TOE]

The Ignore button is your friend. It sure made the political forum a faster read.

Ignore Bistate!!!!

I like hearing different perspectives on sensitive topics, but I have to agree it would definitely help in the political forum. Lol
I won’t personally be blocking anyone but you made me laugh out loud with that one!!! ??? Thanks for the advice!!! ??

 

[Tristate]

I think it's only $5.

I don't think the show administrators and sponsors want you to come to only enter a draw. There are lots of things to see and do. You can even meet other MM members and network with them. Despite all the conflict here a lot of these guys are good fellas.

Depending on attendance, whether you are a resident or non-resident, and which tag you apply for you can have better odds than the statewide draw.

I have been once and it was a great time. I really wish I had my kids with me. Hopefully I can take them one day.