POINT SYSTEM IN IDAHO

[THRILL]

Just wanted to hear thoughts about a point system in ID. I know people will eventually draw with a system but it could take 10-20 plus years for premier units. I fear it could really make some units nearly impossible to draw and push fair odds(1 in 4) out to 1 in ten(or worse) with everyone( and their grandma) chasing the points game.

I fear a point system would make the once in a lifetime hunts nearly impossible to draw. Right now some Moose and Mt Goat tags are easier to draw than trophy Elk and Deer units.
Check the resident odds for Moose and Mt Goat in Utah(from 1 in 50 to 1 in 200) and be thankful your an Idaho resident.

I am also concerned about youth hunters being behind the game. I know they haven't put in their years of patience in applying, but think they should have opportunity from the get go.

I currently am chasing points in 3 states that border Idaho. I would love to apply for all the western states but realize it will most likely be a 10 to 20 year commitment of buying non resident licenses. I have buddies in those states that are trying to draw as a resident with points and their odds are still crazy to draw. Every species I apply for has a fee and see it may be tempting for financially struggling FnG's to get as many people applying for as many different hunts as possible.(yes they are getting my money) Once we start buying points we would have to apply for everything every year or fall behind. Our hunting passion will get expensive. If we could put in for Sheep and Elk and Deer every year in Idaho, we all probably would. I would hate to know what the odds for getting a sheep tag would be if every hunter in the state could apply every year. And what would happen for new hunters behind in the point game? I don't think they could ever catch up(many states point systems allocate percentages of available tags to max point holders).


Many of our trophy units do take lottery luck to draw, but there are a lot of middle type units that have good odds. I read a lot of posts from frustrated hunters about whats wrong with our state's management. What would a point system do?
Any thoughts?

 

[Deerlove]

No points, 3 year waiting period. Id is so desperate they want those hunting licences purchased every year.

 

[destroyer350]

Thrill man go down the thread page to Idaho controlled hunts, pretty much the same question. I hate to say it but to most of these guys it would be beating a dead horse!!!!!
By the way I'd prefer pick your weapon seasons, to scatter hunters out!!!

 

[WORKNMAN]

I hope Idaho does not go to a point system.

 

[falloutwest]

I posted the same thing in the other controlled hunt post and will post it here:

I think Nevada has a great system. As a resident there, I drew two Bighorn sheep tags (a Desert and a California), two trophy Antelope tags, and numerous quality Mule deer tags under the points system. I then moved to Idaho 8 years ago and as a Nevada nonresident, have drawn a bull elk tag, another good antelope tag, and two more quality mule deer tags. In that same 8 year span in Idaho, applying every year as a resident, I have not drawn a single controlled hunt in this state. I think the bonus point system Nevada has works great because whether you have 0 points or 15, you still have a chance to draw, yet it rewards those that put in their time. I hope Idaho makes the change.

 

[excaliber]

>I posted the same thing in
>the other controlled hunt post
>and will post it here:
>
>
>I think Nevada has a great
>system. As a resident there,
>I drew two Bighorn sheep
>tags (a Desert and a
>California), two trophy Antelope tags,
>and numerous quality Mule deer
>tags under the points system.
>I then moved to Idaho
>8 years ago and as
>a Nevada nonresident, have drawn
>a bull elk tag, another
>good antelope tag, and two
>more quality mule deer tags.
>In that same 8 year
>span in Idaho, applying every
>year as a resident, I
>have not drawn a single
>controlled hunt in this state.
>I think the bonus point
>system Nevada has works great
>because whether you have 0
>points or 15, you still
>have a chance to draw,
>yet it rewards those that
>put in their time. I
>hope Idaho makes the change.
>

I agree with everything you've said.

 

[Moosey69]

>
>I agree with everything you've said.
>

+2, I think that it will be nothing but good for Idaho. The failed raising of non-res tag and app fees last year has proven that the only way IDFG can get more $$ from non-residents while limiting the amount of hunters in the feild, is with a point system. And the Nevada style (Bonus)that they are talking about still allows everyone who puts, even if they have no points, a chance at drawing any tag in the state. And the more years you put in the better your chance is at drawing.
Some of the arguments that have been on here against any type of point system are ridiculous; "we would only be able to hunt every 10-20 years with a point system", "they would have to do away with OTC tags", "youths would not be able to get a tag until they have 10-20 points" and "the odds would get so bad with more people applying that if you did not get in the first year you may never have enough points to draw a controlled hunt tag". Well the way it's been going for me the last 10+ years I don't think I'll ever draw a controlled hunt tag with the way the system is now. And they mistakenly think that the only point system thats out there is a "preference" point system, where whoevers got the most points automatically gets the tag.

Anyone who thinks that things should keep going the way that they are going right now has got to be crazy! Wolves and other predators have had a negative impact in lots of areas throughout the state, but I think the mismanagement of the OTC hunts and loss of winter range has had an even worse impact(lots of other areas with little or no wolves are in poor shape). Killing 200+ wolves this year, while good, will not help much if the IDFG keeps mismanaging like they have been.

 

[Moosey69]

>I am also concerned about youth
>hunters being behind the game.
> I know they haven't
>put in their years of
>patience in applying, but think
>they should have opportunity from
>the get go.
>
I completely agree. Thats why I think the youth only tags are great! Why would those have to change?
Youths are the future of hunting and I have kids and can't wait until they can hunt big game. I think the only way they will be able to expand youth only opportunities is with the extra $$ a point system would bring in.(They could shift some tags from the higher $$ adult tag pool)

 

[Huntnfever]

Idaho would bennefit from a draw system like colorados i think, multiple seasons, pick your weapon. Its a better alternative then what we have now. I also feel the pain of putting in and not drawing out. Other then unlimited tags or leftovers, i have drawn 2 tags both antelope one in 93 the other in 96. I also dont think youths should get special tags. I didnt and it took 2 or 3 years of hunting before i got my first animal. Its not about the killing its about spending the time in the woods with all the animals, and with loved ones. So why should we give them anything special. You want to give away a hard to get tag, how about a veteran, or disabled person? Again this is just my opinion and i kinda hi-jacked the thread but this has been hammered in the past every year we have a thread on bonus points

has anyone seen my kittie

 

[buckmster28]

I agree that Idaho needs a point system. Rewarding those who apply every year is a good thing. Although I beleive Colorados point system is the best I beleive it will only work there as other states simply dont have the same deer herd. If Idaho did this this the few good controlled hunts they have would take an extreme amount of points to draw I think they would have to a bonus point or mod bonus point system.

 

[Califelkslayer]

FUNNY!!! This came up a couple of years ago and I got beat up for even suggesting it. Now the majority are for it.

As i said back then, "I don't care how they do it, just let me know the rules and then I'll decide if I want to play."

But Idaho only gets my money once or twice every 5 years now cause I only apply when I'm not sure of a good tag in a PP state.
If the went Nv Or Wy style, I'd be in. Not sure about colorado though. I played that game to 13 PPs and although the hunt was worth it, I want to hunt elk in Colorado more often than that.

And I am so glad the NR price increase failed.

 

[gemstatejake]

They sold like 75% of the non res tags. Is that a failure?


Nevada's point system won't help you draw the best tags. second tier and marginal hunts it'll help (in Idaho you could just buy a tag and duplicate these type of hunts) but if your chasing the best units, you got a long wait ahead of you. doubly so as a non-res.

 

[grizzly]

It wasn't what they wanted or they wouldn't have a non-resident price reduction as an agenda item in their meetings.

If IDFG doesn't help the herds, they are screwed. They already lost hundreds of thousands of dollars in revenue as opposed to one year ago. Read the numbers. IDFG needs nonresidents more than nonresidents need IDFG.

Grizzly

 

[Califelkslayer]

I guess success or failure is in the eyes of the person making the judgement. A price increase followed by a price reduction???

Hummmm, let me think. I sell cars for $20,000.00, raise the price to $25,000.00 and make less revenue, figure I'll roll back my prices so I can sell some cars and make some money. My price increase was a failure IMO.

Gem, I've seen where you're against the PP system and startin to soften a little. How about a PP system for NRs only??? BUT a 5% tag set aside won't have the desired effect, revenue. Idaho currently allows NRs to "draw up to" 10%. A 10% set aside would get alot of NRs in the game, buying licenses. Idaho could allow NRs to apply for everything (decrease draw odds) and leave the residents alone, havin to choose which species they are gonna apply for (increase draw odds).

Don't criticize Nevada's system. Everyone that plays that game should know what the rules are and how long the odds are for a specific tag. In the last 2 years I drew a antelope tag in argueably the second best unit in the state (my 2nd tag there) and an elk tag. I increased my draw odds on the elk by applying for a muzzy tag and researching draw odd trends. 32 total tags in a 100 mile by 50 mile area. A very quality experience. Nevada can afford to lower tag numbers since their revenue is primarily from license and application fees. I would guess for every NR elk tag the issue, there are 50-100 applicants paying for a license and the application fee. The $1,200.00 they receive for the actual tag in a small percentage of their total revenue.

I'm not trying to rain on your parade cause I don't care how they do the resident tag distribution. Utah and Wyoming do NRs totally different from residents so this concept is not new.

 

[Moosey69]

>They sold like 75% of the
>non res tags. Is that
>a failure?
YES.
This is strait from IDFG's websites news release page; "The Idaho Fish and Game Commission will consider lowering nonresident deer tag fees during the annual meeting January 27-29 at Fish and Game headquarters in Boise.

The cost to hunt deer in Idaho is one of the highest of 11 western states. Fish and Game has recommended reducing nonresident general deer tags to $255 from the current $300. Commissioners will take up the issue on Thursday, January 28."

Obviously the F&G seems to think it was a failure as well! And in another news release they said it cost them over $1 millon in lost revenue.
Jake you seem to keep trying to spin the facts around to support your arguments. Everyone could see early on that it was a failure.

 

[gemstatejake]

Hmm, guess I missed that release. Well hell, good news! looks like my res-nonres tag will cost less this year! even though I'd pay more for it if they needed it! you guys ##### and whine about wanting to help the resource but I guess that sentiment ends when it hits your wallet!

Good thing I live in Idaho and can just plunk my money down OTC and go hunt deer and elk all the live-long day with a gawd-damn RIFLE!

What a great state I live in!

 

[backcountryID]

+1 Jake-

The last thing I ever want to happen to Idaho is for people to pay their way into a unit that's closely regulated so they can ride their ATV anywhere they please and are almost guaranteed to shoot an animal. That's how the show is run in Nevada. ATV trails up every ridge, the only thing saving the animals there is how few tags are given out. Let's keep ATV's out of Idaho's hunting future so we can all play the game every year, and the animals have a means of escape from the lazy slob hunters. I'm sick of states like NV managing for B&C potential. Everyone appreciates a nice set of horns, but you're not supposed to shoot a B&C animal every time you hunt.

 

[HunterHarry]

I hate Colorado's preference points system.
It slams the door on kids and people just starting out and just may discourage young hunters from getting involved if they feel they will never have a shot at drawing a premiere unit.
Nevada & Arizona's bonus points systems are better for sure.
I like the fact that Idaho and New Mexico are both "luck of the draw" states.
I'll continue to apply in both.
Keep it split also, sheep & moose OR deer & elk.
I wish the tag fee would have to be fronted though.
That by itself would increase the odds.
My $.02

HH

 

[excaliber]

Arizona's point system is really a preferance point system. Especially when you look at the top hunts.

All the NR tags are filled in the 20% pool leaving none available for those without max points. For the resident's it's different.

I hate preference points systems like Colorado. You have only one chance at a great hunt making it a OIL style of tag.

Nevada had the best Bonus Point system. You can draw the first year if you're lucky. Take a look at some of the people who drew with low BP's.
Arizona's and Colorado's systems are bad for those just starting out. Nevada's really doesn't matter when you get in.

 

[OLDHORNHUNTER]

well said gemstate...isnt it nice as an idaho resident we can walk into any license vendor & buy our tags than decide if we want to hunt archery rifle or muzzy pick our general unit & go hunt..yeah if we want to put in for a draw hunt we drop our $6.25 tag fee & if we dont draw a controlled hunt we can still go & hunt anywhere we want??? In NV if u dont draw a tag u dont hunt your home state that year..OR is similar if u dont draw a deer tag u can bow hunt if u dont draw an elk tag u can only hunt their late season..I myself would rather be able to hunt with my kids friends & family every year as opposed to not being able hunt at all...

 

[buckmster28]

I do agree with Idaho being a great state to be a resident of. Being able to hunt your home state every year is a bonus. Living in nor cal I get to hunt some of the best blacktail country there is every year OTC. I do beleive a point system would be a good thing. You would still get to hunt your general units every year with your chance of drawing a premium getting better every year. I do stick by my belief that colorado has the best point system. First off as far as closing the door on our youngsters I believe to be way off, Colorado has alot of good quality units that take zero to a few points to draw allowing alot of opprotunity. Arizona give me a break I have max deer points and figure to be in a long wait, a kid applying here will probably never draw a premium tag in there life. Neveda has a little better odds of drawing, but still very limited. As for Neveda trying to manage units for B&C animals you better check the record books, there aint alot of them produced every year. They have to manage there herds or they wont have any. I apply for almost every western state I am asked by alot of people where to apply and what to apply for and I always tell them if you are not applying for Colorado you are missing a great opprotunity. Of course these are just my opinions and I kind of got away from the original point, I love Idaho and will continue to hunt there. I would just like to see some better management, as this has been proven affective in other states.

 

[springer1]

well all you whiney little boobs who just moved here and want to change idaho to your old home state can alaways move back,its people like you ,who ruined the hunting and fishing in idaho,if you guys looked at the benavelant i.D.F.G most of them come from either back east or a coastal state and brought their stewardship ability from their home state and have done nothing but make a mess here.(let us not forget the U.S.F.S )they have completely failed at manageing idaho's natural resources ,and as for the lazy slob hunters who ride ATV's and chase off game your nothing more than bloviating idiot more elk are killed near the farm towns in the north than any of you granola eating bacpacking boobs,i wont adress the amount of lost elk by the "stick flingers ",ive done the nevada stuff,the wyoming hunts ,montana hunts colorado and utah and washington and idaho beats them (with the exception of wyoming )(wyoming has its own set of problems Ursus Arctos Horriblis and they have them like we have people moving here.to many people moving here and a out of control wolf population,with a corrupt agency managing for a greedy group of employees who speak with gilded tongues is a recipe for disaster.

 

[springbear]

Well aren't you just a positive little fella...

In my opinion, it is guys with your attitude that are the biggest problem in this state. It is not the hunting, the regulations, the habitat, The Wolves, the Controlled Hunt numbers, The Out-of-Stater?s, the nothing! It freaking little cry-baby jerks who think they own the damn Forest and are ENTITLED to it more than everybody else. You make it impossible for the departments to manage due to your ignorant biching and complaing about everybody and everything.... nothing is ever good enough for you, nor done to your standards. That makes them "all" a bunch of idiots....

Get a grip and look in the mirror, there is your idiot and the biggest danger facing Idaho hunting today.

Why don't you enlighten us there smarty pants. Provide your sources to the evil out of state fish and game employees. Tell us exactly where the "home town" of every state employee is.. How about you provide your source to all the lost "stick flinger" elk, and then show me how many are lost by the guns and muzzle loaders.. Provide a few examples as to what constitutes the USFS completely failing to manage the National Forests...
Care to explain how WY elk are being actually hurt by the grizzly bear. Come on smarty, post up the mortality number for all elk all age classes in WY and see where the Grizz Ranks...

I am against Grizz Reintroduction to ID. I have a Wolf Tag in my pocket. I am against any points system in ID. I grew up in this state on a working ranch in a small town. I don't agree with many policies of the Fish & Game and USFS, but silly rants like yours just reinforce the stereotypical view of the ignorant backwoods hick from Idaho.

Good luck in the draws next month by the way.

 

[koyote]

OUCH!! If Idaho does get a point system I hope they give a loyalty point for all of us who have been putting in for years and can't get a good tag. Either way I'll still try. I live close to Idaho and still like it hunting there on general tags even though these areas are coated with quads and fat cats and wolves. It's still better than Oregon.

Koyote

 

[springer1]

yawn !if you got out in the woods boob you can find the wounded and crippled elk but you my friend are the real problem .lets start here fish &game got greedy and started permit hunting for goats and sheep back in about 1973 ,when the populations were really large (more than today bigmouth )that meant prior to then you could go over the counter and buy a tag (got it )they were'nt high of a commodity ,fish & game wanted to drive up revenue so they put a cap on tag sells and went to the lottery system and the herds have been declining ever sense.(look at the stats ) .Now tough guy, did i strike nerve are you a little civil servant who has sucked all the money from the animals ?My attitude reflects almost everybody in the state because of idiots like you ,you actually sound like somebody who moved here thinking that the forest belongs to" THE NATION" didnt happen that way you wouldnt know it though you were still breast feeding on mommy all through high school(so you missed that part of U.S history ).I have seen several changes to the state from your little cronies at the U.S.F.S & I.D.F&.G none of them good you want stats go to the fish & game read all about them jerk you'll see the decline of the animals ,every time somebody gets idea to satify the cry babies (thats you ) (dont want wait i am entitled crowd)they make a mess for the masses.enjoy your self in this great state we call "idaho "even for a tenderfoot you maybe able to fill a tag .i doubt it though now go cry to mommy.pissant!

 

[Califelkslayer]

Backcountry, I don't know where you've hunted in NV but ATVs aren't my experience. 11 miles into the Rubys is. And in my elk unit last year, they had created at least 3 new wilderness areas in the last 5 years. Gettin off track.

Do you residents oppose a PP system for NRs???

 

[koyote]

Sometimes I think a point system would be OK and I could get a tag someday but It would probably be the last time in my lifetime in the premium units and that sucks! I also think no point system is good as I currently am playing in six different states and It's kinda cool that there is a place where its truly fair for everyone and pure luck!

Koyote