Point Building Successes

W

WhiskeyMan

Guest
Not be disagreeable, but there is another side to the "What states have you quit applying and building points in??" thread.

I have extensive experience and $$$!! in the western hunting points game, and overall its been worth it to me. Having said this.....it's also reached the point where it's no longer worth it in many cases.

I say we post some pics of our personal successes due to the point systems. In some cases it may be hard to tell if point building actually was instrumental in drawing the tag, but I say if it likely had an impact in drawing the tag........then post up some great animals. Here are some of mine.


Colorado unit 10 November 2000. Drew with 6 points as a res in this unit before the hype that wasn't due this unit.
5112000_colo_buck_1.jpg



Wyoming unit 26 in 1999. I built a few points as a resident and it would have taken years to draw. However, points move with you and the fact that I moved out of state and most non-res' during that time period didn't apply for moose let me draw this tag with only 4 or 5 points.
58641999_wy_moose_2.jpg



Utah Bookcliffs 2004 non-res. Building 8 points allowed me to draw one of the few non-res tags for the one and only late hunt (early November) that has been offered for this unit. This 185" buck was taken on public land and was an incredible 10.5 years old.
967104_utah_buck_4.jpg
 
I started applying in 10 different states 15 years ago. The best tags I drew were in the first few years even with few or no points, under the old rules. I'm not going to post photos since it's been so long I didn't have a digital camera back then! I did manage to draw something every year until the last 2 seasons when I drew nothing, despite 254 points. Thanks largely to SFW/Don Peay/UTDWR, Oregon, Maine & a few other point thieves.
 
Good thread! NICE BUCKS!

I have drawn:

NM oryx (got one neat hunt).

NM muzzy elk, got a good 6x6 (my first nice bull)

CO elk, 76, bow, got a P&Y 6x6

WY elk rifle, got a decent 6x6 (and had a GREAT bowhunt)

WY lope, got to hunt with bb which was awesome (and got a P&Y lope)

CO sheep tag (bow S44) very very tough hunt, got to hunt sheep but really wish I had held out for a better unit. Nearly impossible to get a sheep.
 
I also drew as a NR a pronghorn tag in Nevada with 11 points plus a rifle elk tag in the NE corner of NV with only 8 points. Didn't harvest on either hunt.

Here is one of the bigger bulls I found but he was badly broken so I let him go.
2011grandaddys_silhouetted.jpg
 
I like both threads. And i love Nevada. Drew one of the best antelope tags in the state in 08 for the second time. I didn't do that tag justice because I had 3 other hunts that year plus a Alberta goose hunt. The next year I drew a muzzy elk hunt in Nevada too. Best hunt of my life!!! I believe I drew that tag with research on how many applicants applied in the previous 2 years. Only had 6 PPs for the elk tag.

I've had some great hunts over the years and PPs were the reason I drew some of those tags.

And those are great photos.
 
So I am relatively new to the points game in the western states. I have been living in colorado for the past 5 years and have been collecting points for colorado and wyoming for the past 3 years. WhiskeyMan, in your opinion is it worth it to me to be doing the points this late in the game? I am 37 years old and I will probably never draw a goat tag or a moose tag or any of the high end units in colorado
 
Aaron, I'd just apply in states without points until the train wreck occurs and all these point schemes blow up!
 
Aaronjhanson, if you are wanting the very best unit in colorado and wyoming then it probably will be a major let down for you but if you are wanting to save for the mid-tier and lower units then yes it is a great idea. It will give you flexibility to hunt a variety of units and also allow you to plan for a specific unit especially in CO. If you are wanting moose, sheep or goat in CO definately collect points. Yes they are long odds but CO has some of the best odds for these animals, except moose but every year they are adding more and more units for moose distributing the tag application pressure.

Mntman

"Hunting is where you prove yourself"
 
To add to what mtnman posted, I can tell you without a doubt, if I were starting from ground zero this year, my strategy would be to select a few 2-4 point units with some potential or past B/C history. Get yourself familiar with every corner of those units. Your accumulated knowledge will make up for unit quality difference. Then hopefully draw them every 3/4 years. And forget about the top units. Especially in CO don't get stuck in no man's land like I am with 14 CO elk points. There's not much difference in quality in between 3 and 12 deer/elk points. Certainly not worth the wait. The same will be true of WY for anyone w/o max points.
 
That is what I am doing, I have 3 points going in to a Co muzzy elk, a archery deer.. and PP for bear, moose and antelope..Every 2 or third year I'll draw a gen elk tag in Wyoming. looking into a reduced price lope tag in WY this year as well.
I am not a big antler chaser. just like eating them critters.

I met a guy 2 years ago at the local archery range, he had 3 or 4 PP and he pulled an archery Moose tag in Colorado... he won the lottery that year... don't know if he got his moose though
 
Much of what Zim has said on this topic is accurate. Particularly that points have been cheapened by the G & F in some states by changing the rules. Utah has changed the rules on me......twice! But, I'm not ready to catastrophize like Zim is.

My biggest problem right now is the lack of quality of hunts for great big animals. For instance, I, like Zim, have 13 points for elk in CO. I want a 340+ size bull or nothing, and the only quality hunt that I will ever be able to draw is unit 61.......and that unit has very few bulls of that caliber. I don't think 61 elk is worth the drive to me. I'll never get 2, 201, or 10. So I'm pretty much hosed for elk in CO. Ditto that with CO antelope. I have enough points to draw unit 3, but it doesn't produce the quality (book goats) that warrant the drive for me. The only reason I continue to build points in CO is cuz it is cheap to do so compared to other states. Colorado's system is flawed cuz you can still build a point too cheaply and buy an OTC tag for elk. It should be one or the other.

I have max points for muleys in WY. At $40 each that is $200. But there isn't a deer hunt up there right now worth the drive to me. There likely won't be in the near future either. I may pull the plug on this investment. I bailed out on WY moose this year with 5 points @ $70 each. The better units I want take 10 points now........plus the wolves are pounding the moose with additional units closed every year. I give up.

I have a bunch of points for moose and antelope in UT. I'll stay in for a few more years..........unless they change the rules again. But the moose quality sucks right now, and the antelope are mediocre at best.

I'm sticking full bore with Nevada. I had $2,000 invested in NR licenses and application fees last year to draw the elk tag plus the antelope tag. I now have 10 deer points to share in the $2k, and I'll draw a decent tag there any year. I can see the light in NV......but not in CO or Utah.

I have mucho points for elk and antelope in AZ. I'm in until the end. I have spent a lot of $$$ applying here (and buying the mandatory license) as a NR before moving here. Point building is dirt cheap for me now. There are only 5-6 residents that have more elk points than me, so I may get into the 20% pool soon for an early rifle bull in unit 9 or 10.

Given the cost of landowner and auction tags.......point building is cheap overall. But in many states and cases, it ain't worth it if you'll never get there. I don't regret what I've spent building points, but the game has changed significantly the last 10 years like Zim has said. I expect further rule changes in many states, but who knows what and when.

One of the problems with the point system is that soooo many hunters are banking points that it takes 1-3 points just to draw a lousy hunt for trophies or even mediocre animals. Obvious examples are CO deer and WY antelope.

Fact o the matter is, there is such a great demand for western hunting and not enough resource. And hunters are demanding preference, sequencing, and predictability in drawing tags. And amazingly in this economy, they are still buying points in huge numbers and generating huge $$$.

And lastly.....G & F departments are making huge $$$ on the point buying system (look at WY!!!) so that they can buy new trucks and coffee pots for their people. No kidding.
 
In the last 10 years I can't think of one where at least one state has cheapened their points. This year looked like it might pass, then just learned Vermont took 500 tags from the rifle draw and created a new archery only lottery. Hunters can apply for points for both. Of course this cheapened all firearm points. So that's 11 straight years. I expect Wyoming to screw us moose point holders next year to make it 12 straight.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-21-11 AT 08:55PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-21-11 AT 08:51?PM (MST)

Basicly Im in the same boat, I drew a WY nonresident moose tag the first time I applied, that was 1993, I drew a UT Pahvant elk tag with one point( the max) in 1994, Ill bet over 95% of the people on this site didn't know what a Pahvant was, used my waiting period to apply for deer and drew a book cliffs tag the first year it reopened, I used to draw CO 61 early rifle elk with 2 points, I did that more than once, and have been saving points ever since,Im not even close with 12 points. I don't blame the wildlife depts as much as some, they get lots of pressure from both unsuccessful long term applicants and residents in their respective states . The truth is, despite having quite a few points in various states, I can't report much recent success in drawing anything.
 
>In the last 10 years I
>can't think of one where
>at least one state has
>cheapened their points. This
>year looked like it might
>pass, then just learned Vermont
>took 500 tags from the
>rifle draw and created a
>new archery only lottery.
>Hunters can apply for points
>for both. Of course
>this cheapened all firearm points.
> So that's 11 straight
>years. I expect Wyoming
>to screw us moose point
>holders next year to make
>it 12 straight.
Vermont??? Wow, I guess I won't apply there lol....
 
piper, Yup. I drew a NM Valle Vidal 1st try in 96, then Utah Book Cliffs elk 1st try in 97. Those days are long gone.

255 points and nothing the last 3 years.

The information super highway + HF + EJ + lower NR quotas + cheapening points have certainly changed the game. I'm glad I got to go where I did because doubt I'll ever get another chance. Pity the new guys.
 
>piper, Yup. I drew a
>NM Valle Vidal 1st try
>in 96, then Utah Book
>Cliffs elk 1st try in
>97. Those days are
>long gone.
>
>255 points and nothing the last
>3 years.
>
>The information super highway + HF
>+ EJ + lower NR
>quotas + cheapening points have
>certainly changed the game.
>I'm glad I got to
>go where I did because
>doubt I'll ever get another
>chance. Pity the new
>guys.




Zimbo,

The Fooooooooooo is a business for the owners successes. Nothing much there for readers.

Get your second job and quit buying new vehicles. Buy an auction tag that is tax deductible. Then......go back to the Books.
 
Whiskeybo,

Can't deny the Foooooooooo raised applicant numbers. Nuff said.

2nd job? Not a chance, I am already paying 80% support for my kids due to my ex financially abandoning my kids combined with liberal divorce laws favoring the lazy. New vehicle? Nice concept but I've never owned anything less than 4 years old. Current is a 99 Jeep Cherokee with 201,000 miles.

Auction tag? :D I think my ex's attorney bought one from SFW that used to be in the nonresident regular draw pool.
 
TwoDogs:

I usually think you are off your rocker. However, I will agree with you on this. If you want to hunt that bad, you can usually find a way to get it done. It all depends on how bad you want to make it happen.

I just booked a hunt that I thought I would never go on. But, my wife told me to do it and I have several months to plan it out. BTW, nice pics and some great animals!

The points game is irritating at times but I have draw tags that would not have been possible without being in the max poitn pool. Those that have all these points built up are complaining about not drawing???? Most likely, they are putting in for the absolute top units. Put in for a mid-range unit and do the work scouting and try to hunt as many days possible. Most likely, you will have good results!
 
woodruffhunter, I think most everyone knows that stuff. You must have taken your Zoloft tablet earlier than some of us, mine hasn't kicked in yet.
 
Yeah, you are probably right. I am guilty of what I am preaching against on my previous post! I keep building deer and elk points in Wyoming for the the "best" unit (along with 10,000 others). I should just apply for a decent unit and get it over with lol...
 
you guys crying about having 250 points and not getting any tags and blaming the info sources are big hypocrites. if your not drawing tags you are applying for the hunts that get all the hype . unless you discovered all these honey holes in all these states and they just stole the info from you and put it into print. success rates,access, public land all that info is easy to find and makes the odds what they are. is alot of it hype ,yes put there is plenty of hunting to do with out a huge point bank.
 
36 moose that is why i i decided getting the largest racked elk or deer or moose or lope is not in the cards for me. I am happy to kill sub 300 bulls ... at the end of the day I just want to eat them.
the whole hunt and harvesting the animal is what it is about for me.. first legal bull i see I'll try to put down. then pack up and get back home to the family.
 
>TwoDogs:
>Those that have all these
>points built up are complaining
>about not drawing???? Most likely,
>they are putting in for
>the absolute top units.
>Put in for a mid-range
>unit and do the work
>scouting and try to hunt
>as many days possible.
>Most likely, you will have
>good results!

Two Dogs, With 255 points I wish it were that simple. However, I subscribe to HF for one reason.......so I know where NOT to apply. I completely avoid their top 5 picks, and often their top 10. The only exception is perhaps Oregon Mount Emily elk with 14 points because I have a legit chance and the dropoff is big. My Wyoming elk unit did not appear anywhere in their 19 recommended units. Tell me.......Would you burn these max points on a 2 point unit?

Was saving (14) for UT Pauns rifle tag and would have drawn last year had not Don Peay raided the NR quota. How would you burn those points?
 
Zim:

I do feel sorry for the NR applicant in Utah. I would be mad as well at the changes they have made.

I would apply for a Deseret CWMU tag. Its the one CWMU that I know that will give you a legit shot at a nice buck and tret you very well.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-22-11 AT 01:29PM (MST)[p]>In the last 10 years I
>can't think of one where
>at least one state has
>cheapened their points. This
>year looked like it might
>pass, then just learned Vermont
>took 500 tags from the
>rifle draw and created a
>new archery only lottery.
>Hunters can apply for points
>for both. Of course
>this cheapened all firearm points.
> So that's 11 straight
>years. I expect Wyoming
>to screw us moose point
>holders next year to make
>it 12 straight.

Zim,
From what I've read, it is 50 tags and they are in addition to the current rifle offerings as they only expect 30% success rate which will not impact. I will agree with you though that by allowing people to apply for both looks like a money grab disguised as a way to provide more opportunity. They should allow people to apply for one or the other. I'm not ure the final draft has passed yet however so there is hope.


"Whatever you are, be a good one."
- Abraham Lincoln
 
Top 10 ways for the average hunter to save enough money to buy a landowner or auction tag and whack a 340" bull of a lifetime:

10. Give up meth
9. Sell yer vehicle and ride the bus to work
8. Make your bum, lazy teenagers get jobs and contribute
7. Work weekends at McDonalds flippin burgers
6. Stay out of convenience stores
5. Give up cable TV and internet
4. Give up whiskey (oh wait....that's another list!)
3. Pack your own lunch instead of eating out every day
2. Sell your quads and actually walk while hunting
1. Get yer wife off her fat ass and make her actually work a job
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-23-11 AT 07:28AM (MST)[p]>Top 10 ways for the average
>hunter to save enough money
>to buy a landowner or
>auction tag and whack a
>340" bull of a lifetime:
>
>
>10. Give up meth
>9. Sell yer vehicle and
>ride the bus to work
>
>8. Make your bum, lazy
>teenagers get jobs and contribute
>
>7. Work weekends at McDonalds
>flippin burgers
>6. Stay out of convenience
>stores
>5. Give up cable TV
>and internet
>4. Give up whiskey (oh
>wait....that's another list!)
>3. Pack your own lunch
>instead of eating out every
>day
>2. Sell your quads and
>actually walk while hunting
>1. Get yer wife off
>her fat ass and make
>her actually work a job
>
lets see...
10: I don't do drugs
9:I have to pick the kids up at school and day care (5 and 3 years old)
8 no teenagers
7:would like to spend time with my kids
6:what is a convince store?
5: I gave up cable!! not the internet though. I need to surf MM
4: i don't drink
3: I pack my own lunch every day (left overs elk tacos today buddy)
2: I don't have quads
1: my wife works...and she is HOT!!!

nope still cant afford of justify high $$ hunts....but a man can dream....

LOL!!!

Aaron
 
>Top 10 ways for the average
>hunter to save enough money
>to buy a landowner or
>auction tag and whack a
>340" bull of a lifetime:

>1. Get yer wife off
>her fat ass and make
>her actually work a job

I was able to take a couple bulls that size off public in the pre-point cheapening age.

Of your 1-9 none really apply to me due to my jobs. Always dedicated working long hours at good jobs. However this last item #10 literally broke my back. The ex parlayed her 4 year college degree into either unemployment or minimum wage jobs for 25 years. Apparently some still think giving birth entitles them to a retirement ticket. Including compound interest I figure she cost our family over 2 million during that 25 years. In 1988 she turned down a job paying $50,000/year and it was downhill ever since.

Love for our kids = Work, putting a roof over their heads, feeding them, clothing them. Not coddling them with cheap words.

Pathetic.
 
I did finally did fix the problem. Got rid of the fat lazy one. Replaced with a hot asian who has a good job. Just did so 25 years too late.

New one actually knows how a bicycle works! And swims. Exercise.........What a novel idea!
 
I drew a couple of Arizona elk tags many years ago before it got this competitive.

Drew utah elk in 05

and Co 76 elk last year- all archery.

I look at the chart of Co unit 61 archery elk and the points req to draw have gone up one point for every year for the last 8 yrs. It now takes 15- and MAYBE you will draw but that was only if you started 16 years ago. If you are starting now- good luck.
 

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