Panic is for losers.........

Dean Parisian

Active Member
Messages
441
Third quarter 2008 statements are out and you might want to stop worrying, it doesn't do any good. The stocks don't know you own them and wouldn't behave any different if they did. So, first, take a deep breath. Get some perspective. If you don't have any, may I kindly offer up some for free. First, review these facts of the market since I went to work on Wall Street in 1982:

1982: Double-digit unemployment
1983: Record budget deficit
1984: Technology new issues bubble bursts
1985: Dollar too strong
1986: Dow at 1800 - "too high"
1987: Stock market crash
1988: Worst drought in 50 years
1989: Savings & loan scandal
1990: Iraq invades Kuwait
1991: Recession
1992: Record budget deficit
1993: Clinton health care plan
1994: Rising interest rates
1995: Dollar at historic lows
1996: Greenspan "irrational exuberance" speech
1997: Asian markets collapse
1998: Long Term Capital collapses
1999: Y2K problem
2000: Dot-com stocks plunge
2001: Terrorist attacks
2002: Corporate scandals
2003: Gulf War II
2004: High oil prices
2005: Trade deficit - KATRINA hits
2006: Commodity prices spike- T buys BLS
2007: New Fed Chair, inflation, energy, metals, int?l

Now consider the following;

SAVERS PROCESS THE FUTURE THROUGH THE EMOTION OF FEAR.
INVESTORS PROCESS THE FUTURE THROUGH THE EMOTION OF FAITH.

SAVERS THINK THAT PAPER MONEY HAS REAL VALUE, IE. A $100 BILL.
INVESTORS KNOW THAT PAPER MONEY IS ONLY A MEDIUM OF EXCHANGE.

HARD CURRENCY IS NOT A STORE OF VALUE, PURCHASING POWER OF MONEY IS.

SAVERS THINK THAT LONG TERM RISK IS THE LOSS OF PRINCIPLE.
INVESTORS KNOW THAT LONG TERM RISK IS OUTLIVING YOUR MONEY.

REMEMBER, THE CPI OVER THE LAST 30 YEARS HAS TRIPLED, WHO TRIPLES THEIR INCOME? RISK IS THE EXTINCTION OF THEIR PURCHASING POWER. SAFETY IS INCREASING THEIR PURCHASING POWER.

SAVERS DO NOT KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LOSS AND FLUCTUATION.
INVESTORS KNOW THE DIFFERENCE.

IF THE MARKET INDICES FALL 25%, THAT DOES NOT MEAN A LOSS OF 25%.
IF YOU DON?T PANIC, THERE IS NO LOSS. IF YOU DO NOT SELL, YOU HAVE NO LOSS.

THE DOWNS IN THE STOCK HAVE ALWAYS BEEN TEMPORARY. ALWAYS HAVE BEEN. THE UPS IN THE STOCK MARKET HAVE ALWAYS BEEN PERMANENT, ALWAYS HAVE BEEN. THE REAL RISK IN STOCKS IS NOT OWNING THEM. THE LACK OF INTELLIGENCE IS NOT THE SAVERS DOWNFALL. FEAR AND THE LACK OF STOCK OWNERSHIP IS!

Stocks solve long-term problems and should be owned for the long haul. If you are going to puke them up every time America stumbles into a mild recession or correction you deserve your investment fate. Listen up and pay attention here.

At the end of an investor?s life, less than 5% of total lifetime return will come from what the investments did versus other investments. The other 95% will come from how the investor behaved. I have a firm belief that there is no relationship between investment performance and investor performance.

Stock market success is a function of two things: first, recognition that the markets will go down and sometimes go down a lot and two: preparation to regard those declines as either non-events or buying opportunities, and never as an occasion to sell in a panic.

With all certainty, the most boring and mediocre stock fund in your portfolio, the one that you hold onto during a vicious and severe bear market is infinitely better than that world-class stock fund that you sell out of at the bottom of a temporary decline.

Now, if your serious retirement portfolio is making you feel uneasy and you feel it needs professional, unbiased attention, let's talk for a moment on what you might do.

The first thing you should do would be to shut off CNBC. I hope someday CNBC will be required by law to flash on the TV screen a graphic that says ?Nothing that happens in the market in the next 30 days will matter in 10 or 15 years?.

You also might want to stop reading the financial press. Yes, I read three papers every morning before the average guy gets out of bed, but journalism always gets it wrong. It has a relentless bias to the negative. I call it financial pornography. Reporters never report my reasons the stock market is headed up in our lifetime and it isn't the job of journalists to make people great investors. It's their job to make people come back for more journalism.

The simple lesson to remember is that markets are not logical or reasonable; they are emotional and unstable. Markets are crowds of people. As we know from attending sporting events or concerts, the normal rules of behavior do not apply when we are in large groups. If we try to predict what a crowd will do based on logical behavior of a single person in isolation we will most likely be mislead.

And so it goes with the stock market. Today the black boxes at a handful of firms scan the exchange order books every millisecond and automatically execute algorithmic trades, ripping any conceivable advantage away from the public. They are the casino, with structurally embedded multi-billion annual profits ? leaving everyone else on the other side of the zero-sum game. We think that sitting and doing cold and hard calculations on valuation levels and the reasonableness of gains is as futile as predicting what a teenager might do at a rock concert. The market is not an exercise in calculus. It is primarily an experiment in crowd psychology.

Today, stocks are on sale, we are in a recession and stocks are down to attractive buying levels.

Stay the course, stay smart and keep contributing to your 401-k.

And don't forget that I've never met a successful pessimist.


http://chippewapartners.blogspot.com
 
Pretty strong words words there Chip.Some older retired folks might take exception with you.Some could also say that the crooks who have a strangle hold on wall street have made investing a crap shoot.
 
Stay the course, stay smart and keep contributing to your 401-k.

I think that's what the Jews living in Germany said back in the 30's?

Eel
 
I am pissed off!
F that!!! I am done putting as of now! for every 100K I had I lost 47k and I've been in one for like 20 years..
I will let have whats in ride........! but no more!
experts are saying we still need to dive another 2000 pts to hit bottom! I may even take the 15k in savings and put it in the gun safe!
at lease job still seems stable!
good luck
rm
 
99% percent of investment advisers will tell you - always stay vested in the equity market. Never take money out and put it in cash or the debt market under any circumstance. I will happily park your cash in this mutual fund I have (with my extensive knowledge) chosen for you. I don't ever want to talk to you again and my commission comes off the top. And if you ever question my firm grasp of all things financial I will tell you - you are a fool and you just need to contribute more.

That gravy train is coming to a screeching gear grinding halt. People are pissed and they should be. The game is rigged...
 
"Panic is for losers........." ????

There's also an idiom that says: "Know when to cut your losses"

That said, I'm in a huge cash position and I'll look to start bargain shopping starting today - Fri, Oct. 10
 
buy low sell high. now is a buyers market not a sellers market.
wish i had a couple billion to invest.
best buys might be coming later as the market gets lower but you could stand to profit now more then when it was doing good.
I'm not rich well to do or even keeping my head above water but if i had money to buy now i would.
what is in your 401 you haven't lost anything if you haven't sold out of anything. when the market comes back you still have the same number of stocks.
the stocks you buy right now will be bargain priced and when the market comes back they will be worth a lot more then what you payed for them.
never sell stock when its worth less then you bought it at and you would not lose anything.
its a long term thing play it that way.
if its time you retire right now wait tell next year. those who must retire right now are the ones who will be hurt.
i have 21 yrs for the economy to straighten out.
this whole problem started by housing prices going higher then they are worth but people kept buying houses they couldn't afford. if every one would still look at market ups and downs and stopped buying houses when the prices were threw the roof the supply of houses on the market would have increased and the price would have went back down. people would have been able to buy at prices they could have payed for.
the i want it and i want it now generation is to blame for this whole mess, used car salesmen for realtors sub prime lending was a cure for nobody being able to pay artificially high realty market. nobody was willing to let the supply come back to the demand.
 
Now days playing the markets are like playing craps in Vegas,but you don't get free drinks.Lets face it we could be headed for a depression.Betting on the bottom could be hazardous at this point in time.
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-10-08 AT 09:06PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Oct-10-08 AT 08:52?PM (MST)

LAST EDITED ON Oct-10-08 AT 08:50?PM (MST)

that's the thinking that is ruling the market.
its all smoke and mirrors if everyone thinks that way the market go's down.
if everyone would change to this is a good opportunity to buy cheap the market will go up.
the feds and the g7 will get things restarted in housing and banking the whole cause of this mess banks will get back to loaning and the market will come back up.
maybe not to the unrealistic highs but to fair market values and that is enough so some could gain a lot in stock value.
when it was unrealistically high it should have changed to a bear market and didn't that's how stocks got over priced.
this market needs stability and with everyone being bullish for so long it set itself up for a fall and a unstable market
the stock markets need ups and downs just not the extremes that have been happening in the last few years.
I'm not a stock broker just a businessman. i bought my company when it was on the verge of bankruptcy brought it back in 5 yrs to better shape then it had ever been in 35 yrs of business.
all the bills payed, lines of credit payed up and money in the bank.
up from 1 mil in the hole.
yes i have a lot riding on banking they could break us by not financing our projects.
if they do i don't owe them anything right now.
if you think GM and Ford are going under its all because the banks not financing them as soon as the government straightens out this banking the stocks will rebound and the nation will be off to the races again.
the businesses are not failing its the banking. stocks are on businesses not banks.
pulling money away from the banks is what will cause a depression not American business
invest if you can and in 10 yrs you will be happy you did.
not only will you be money ahead but you could save this great country a lot of grief.
if everyone bails out not only has the nation lost but every one's jobs are in danger. don't think for a second that other nations are not buying up stocks in American companies if Americans don't buy the stocks Arabs and Russians will.
we stand to loose more than money by being pessimistic
i had 3000 dollars when i was 18 put it into executive life on michael milken's junk bonds the bank went broke, every one i knew pulled out their principle i let it ride threw the court case.
Aurora bought the assets and payed me all the back interest for staying the course.
i never put in another penny then the 3000 and now that IRA is worth 75,000 its a interest barring account so it is safe
 
As far as I'm concerned unless you need the money in the next year or two hang on, I can't say we've bottomed but I'm confident things will get better. GM at under $5 ? that's stupid, I'm thinking of buying some GM. if it's all that bad we're so screwed it doesn't matter anyway , a positive attitude will prevail in times like these.
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-10-08 AT 11:33PM (MST)[p]It is tough to hang on but you have to do it. I've lost over $100,000 so far but it will come back, it is just a matter of waiting it out. I'm also going to buy up a bunch of new stock this week and hope for the best. I would look at Ford or Toyota instead of GM. GM has had too many labor issues and declining sales long before the market started to tank.
Eric
famousfigures_abevigoda.gif


Ultra liberal, wolf loving, illiterate, gay, hippie midgets on crack piss me off!!!!

deerline.gif
 
I'd look into who is building wind generators, clean coal tech, GE and other mainstay companies that have always driven the economy.
wish i wasn't so broke at home while my company is doing good now it got there by me not taking any money home. its been at tough 5 yrs at home but things will get better. I'll miss out on having money to invest now.
i hope to keep the company in the black for a while then give myself a raise so i can at least make the same wage as my help.
energy electric had a crash and i bought it so it wouldn't close. we had three jobs go south at the same time it brought the company to its knee's.
it came about by taking people at their word now we will not do any job without a signed contract and a legal means to get payed at the end of the job. liens on property doesn't pay for the material or labor. same problem the banks are in right now.
the banks can take the property but without having a cash base left to loan money to new buyers they are stuck with it. that doesn't pay the bills.
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-13-08 AT 05:57PM (MST)[p] good job muskegMan hold on things are going to be crazy for a while yet with ups and down day traders will be rape pillaging and plundering but things will settle down a little form where they were.
wish i had a few grand laying around.
 
Any more words of wisdom men? Like too think positive,but this country is in for a hell of a ride.HDude GM and the unions are broke,and don't deserve a bailout.Time for some people to be held accountable.
 
mo, I'm glad you bumped this up. I want to be positive too. but I haven't heard any good news to reinforce it. Obama is president and he promised change but that's not enough for me. He wants to create jobs by doing road and infrastructure improvements, but I think he needs money to do that. I guess he could print some more? Or write another IOU to China? That should help.

Obama wants to become energy independant, which I agree with, but he doesn't want to drill to do it. I guess he has a magic wand that he is keeping secret?

I put my 401K into the money market around Oct.1 and would love to jump back into stocks, but I'm 60 and won't risk it right now.

Eel
 
60!! WOW! YOU SEEN AND LIVED IN TWO GREAT DEPRESSIONS THEN LIKE KILOWATT I lived though the sixtys!
Back to the money thing someone owes me $87,000.00 .....!
4 banks get 75 billon dollars and can use it to buy other banks and set aside 3.8 billon for holiday bonuses and no over site commity as promised...WTF is wrong with this country!
Rackmaster
 
Glad I got out of the market about 7 years ago. To hell with gambling.
Worst thing about the market is you dont know who is lying to you.

Buy real estate or rentals. If you buy them smart you will do okay.
 
"WTF is wrong with this country!"

Uhhh! Nothing? Have another DING DONG you obease TWINKIE munching trailer trash fat #####.

But seriously folks ..... anybody losing weight? It could be a whole lot worse & may be some day.

RUS
 
RUS I'm crushed!!!
just because I am a big guy you think I don't have any feeling!
(wtf is wrong with RUS! DENAIL MAYBE)
Yes indeed the country is going to get worse so be warned maybe double whats its at now! thats 8 millon out of work and banks get another 100 billon and no helped for avg joe hunter and his famliy whos been eatting dog for a week because the cat was ate the week before... the bank never had to say what they did with the money!
rm
 
".......

Buy real estate or rentals. If you buy them smart you will do okay."

yes, but it's a little unnerving when your real estate is "theoretically" down over 500k.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-13-08 AT 10:29PM (MST)[p]they cash flow?
Dang, some nice looking stuff down there in the low 2's
 
Easy you's MM regulars no need callin each other fat.
Speakin of eating, here's a little inspirational story for you, bout how we can learn to adapt.

Most horse people know that some do-gooders from the city decided that bad horses can no longer become dog food, soon afterwards the meat market for horses is gone, people start turning their sour horses loose, cause they can't aford to feed them,
in steps our local islanders & start mackin on the horse meat, turns out they roast up as good as a pig in a luau & they feed a hell of a lot more people than one scrawny little pig does.

Life hands you lemons, make some lemonade :) !
 
>LAST EDITED ON Nov-13-08
>AT 10:29 PM (MST)

>
>they cash flow?
>Dang, some nice looking stuff down
>there in the low 2's
>

They cash flow great. Buy them for about 50K rent them for about $550. The numbers work. I stick with the entry level stuff (low end). That is my income when I finally get sick of my businesses in CA.
 
Its funny and entertaining to hear a broker call people "losers" for not wanting to stay the course and ride the storm out.

When someone is a few months away from retiring, its hard to blame them for not wanting to "invest"

I have got a great advisor. He has been telling me to stay the course for the past 10 years. I wonder how long this course is going to last? Most of the blame can be pointed to me for being so trusting I guess.

I agree with the NMPaul, I would rather invest in Real Estate.
 

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