Outfitter Draw— minimum service
- Thread starter coryb
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Slick8
Active Member
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- 298
I've used 505 Outfitters the past two years and had a great time. My 2 hunts with them have been nothing but positive. Pete always takes the time to answer questions and discuss strategy thoughts.
They just increased their prices on the diy hunt. The last time I spoke with Pete he was calling to follow up on my hunt and asked my thoughts on the diy program.
I get it from a guides point of view, they get paid less and tipped less on the 2 day hunt. Plus they may have to travel a great distance and provide their own lodging.
For this reason above, the Outfitter sometimes have a hard time finding a guide.
Not many do it but one other to look at who focuses on other parts of the state is Kiowa Outfitters. I know nothing about them except they've been in business for a long time.
They just increased their prices on the diy hunt. The last time I spoke with Pete he was calling to follow up on my hunt and asked my thoughts on the diy program.
I get it from a guides point of view, they get paid less and tipped less on the 2 day hunt. Plus they may have to travel a great distance and provide their own lodging.
For this reason above, the Outfitter sometimes have a hard time finding a guide.
Not many do it but one other to look at who focuses on other parts of the state is Kiowa Outfitters. I know nothing about them except they've been in business for a long time.
DoeNob
Active Member
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- 935
I've used Kiowa and 505 in the past but havent drawn a tag on either one so not sure about 2 day service package. Have hunted fully guided with Kiowa on deer and ibex and they did a good job on both.
As mentioned 505 prices went up which I do not begrudge them at all BUT I am gonna look around now.
As mentioned 505 prices went up which I do not begrudge them at all BUT I am gonna look around now.
505 prices went up? I’m out. I did it for several years and haven’t drawn.
The 2 day minimum is a great way to get some of the rich folk to buy their way in to a more exclusive draw with slightly better odds.
NM 2 day minimum has worked a lot like how the WY special draw. To separate the haves and have nots.
Only difference is that NM gives that cash to the outfitters. Whereas WY GFD pockets it. WY in turn kicks back to the outfitter via the side door (wilderness rule).
The 2 day minimum is a great way to get some of the rich folk to buy their way in to a more exclusive draw with slightly better odds.
NM 2 day minimum has worked a lot like how the WY special draw. To separate the haves and have nots.
Only difference is that NM gives that cash to the outfitters. Whereas WY GFD pockets it. WY in turn kicks back to the outfitter via the side door (wilderness rule).
505Outfitters
Member
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- 38
Unfortunately in order to maintain quality guides and operation expenses an increase in rates was required. I’ve had the same rates for years and had to make the change. I appreciate everyone that is a part of our business, past and present. Good luck in the draw this year guys.
NM high country
Active Member
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- 126
Every year it’s the same Ol thing guys crying about “the rich” guy. How about not rich but successful at their occupation and have a little extra money to spend? These guys that cry I wonder if they ever wanted to make more money ? The outfitter is no different. He has bills to pay and employees to pay and more. Then we hear about the non res who claims NMG&F is screwing him over. I bet G&F would rather hear some non res hunters complain than their own tax paying NM citizen. Y’all might have to move to ABQ and put in for the res draw but what are you going to do when 5 or 6 years later you still haven’t drawn and your truck got stolen.. ha ha…Luck of the draw..
BUGLEnmIN
Very Active Member
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it’s completely understandable in Brandon’s America!
I don't blame the outfitter for raising prices or the successful person who has the extra disposable income to buy better draw odds with this silly 2 day minimum back-door workaround trick.
Instead, I blame NM DFG for this corrupt system.
Hunters and outfitters so often claim to be conservative individualists. Until there is an outfitter welfare program they can use to their competitive advantage. Then, they hold their hand out to get their piece of the action.
Instead, I blame NM DFG for this corrupt system.
Hunters and outfitters so often claim to be conservative individualists. Until there is an outfitter welfare program they can use to their competitive advantage. Then, they hold their hand out to get their piece of the action.
ortegageno
Active Member
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- 343
Just wait to see your Taxidermy bill. 
I offer this service as well. If you have questions, shoot me a message or text/call my cell, 505-730-7943.
Ryan
What is your 2 day minimum charge for each species?
txhunter58
Long Time Member
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- 8,744
What is the name of your business.
Jonfitter#1
Member
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- 12
I’ve seen “ outfitter welfare program “ mentioned in a few of the reply’s.
Would someone be willing to give me a simple explanation of what exactly that is?
Especially how it relates to New Mexico.
Reason I’m asking is I’ve been applying for tags in NM since 14’ and have been successful on one 16A rifle elk and two 2B mule deer tags.
I have applied through the same outfitter since 14’. I have paid good money for fully outfitted hunts that I was successful on.
My issue is that I’ve noticed that the quality of those “ fully outfitted hunts” has gone down hill bad to the point I’m very reluctant to apply through an outfitter unless someone can give me a good trustworthy one.
This is not a derogatory slam against any of you who may be honest hard working professionals who provide what you advertise.
The experience that I had with my 13 year old son this past November is one I never want to go through again nor spend that kind of money on. Short of him shooting a great buck the rest of the experience was a complete bust. I would never recommend this outfitter to anyone nor will I ever give them one cent of my hard earned money again.
If you want I will share our experience and you can tell me whether or not I should feel the way I do.
Would someone be willing to give me a simple explanation of what exactly that is?
Especially how it relates to New Mexico.
Reason I’m asking is I’ve been applying for tags in NM since 14’ and have been successful on one 16A rifle elk and two 2B mule deer tags.
I have applied through the same outfitter since 14’. I have paid good money for fully outfitted hunts that I was successful on.
My issue is that I’ve noticed that the quality of those “ fully outfitted hunts” has gone down hill bad to the point I’m very reluctant to apply through an outfitter unless someone can give me a good trustworthy one.
This is not a derogatory slam against any of you who may be honest hard working professionals who provide what you advertise.
The experience that I had with my 13 year old son this past November is one I never want to go through again nor spend that kind of money on. Short of him shooting a great buck the rest of the experience was a complete bust. I would never recommend this outfitter to anyone nor will I ever give them one cent of my hard earned money again.
If you want I will share our experience and you can tell me whether or not I should feel the way I do.
Jonfitter#1
Member
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- 12
I completely agree. I too have been on hunts and come home empty handed but the outfitter did all they could and provided what they advertised as far as lodging , meals , etc. It made the experience worthwhile.
So for the 23’ experience,
My 13 year old son drew his first tag. It was for mule deer 3rd rifle unit 2B. I Was notified by the outfitter that he drew and the deposit was made. Months passed. 2 weeks before the hunt we hadn’t heard anything as to where we were to go.
I emailed them and asked if we were going to be staying at the same house I stayed at in 22’ for the same hunt. I Was told yes and that an invoice was sent out a month ago with all the info. I never received anything and this wasn’t the first time I had to chase them down to get that information.
We decided to drive out. 2200 miles in 3 days. The first night on the road I get an email saying that the house has changed because they needed a bigger house. I Was provided an address to an Air B&B. I noticed on the map it was way further away from the previous address and way further away from where we’d be hunting. Ok.
We arrived around 4pm the day before the hunt to what I can only describe as quick flip double wide trailer in a meth head trailer park in a pretty developed area. No one was at the address , no one had been at the address , and the place was locked up. I called the outfitter , a guide from my previous two hunts, their secretary, a cook from a previous hunt until I got a hold of someone.
Was told I was at the right place and the guides were out scouting. I Was given an entry code to get in.
We unpacked and took a room. We waited a good two hours before a guide showed up. That’s when we were told that the outfitter wasn’t coming , there would be no cook , and the guide I hunted my last two hunts with wasn’t coming ( I texted him up to that day thinking he’d be with us and he never said one word he wasn’t going to be there). We were told the guides would take care of the food and that we’d be going out to eat. Eventually Guides and hunters started showing up. 3 guides 4 hunters in camp.
The guide we had was immediately pissed off due to the fact he had no bed and wasn’t going to sleep on the floor. Who could blame him? He told us to be ready at 5am and left to go stay at his buddies house a half hour away. 8pm comes around and my kid and I drove to find a restaurant because we were starving. Mind you there was zero food in this house. Just what I wanted to do after all that driving. The one guide in camp was more worried about drinking than setting up the house. It was a fend for yourself situation. Was told to keep receipts.
Next morning we get up to find that they did some shopping. I don’t know about anyone else but I didn’t spend 7500$ and drive 2200 miles to eat and live on goddamn snack bars, donuts, trail mix , and bologna and cheese sandwiches!
Now where we were hunting was 85 miles one way. Our guide who was irritated by the outfitter who hired him expressed his disgust at the situation as did I to him. He did promise us he would do his best for us though he never hunted the unit before. We got incredibly lucky and My son did shoot a great buck that morning. THE ONLY MEMORABLE EXPERIENCE OF THIS HUNT.
We got back and another hunter got a great buck as well. Our guide once again left. That night the guide who seemed to be running the camp got Pizza Hut delivered to the house and they partied all night.
The next day we went out with our guide to pack out the meat. When we returned the house was empty. The guide running the camp left after his hunter tagged out and so did his hunter. My guide skinned the face out and skull capped our deer so we could take it home to my taxidermist. We then parted ways. I tipped him very well considering. The next morning my son and I left an empty food less home to come home.
Now for the final kick in the balls! We drove 3.5 days to get this half frozen cape to my taxidermist. We kept it dry , wrapped up , and ice packed for that time. I went right to her before going home. We get there, she lays it out , takes one look at it and says
“ I can’t do anything with this! The cape itself isn’t spoiled but whoever caped it cut the entire brisket off of it rendering it useless “
I contacted the outfitter and demanded an apology, some reimbursement, and a replacement cape. I did get all three eventually. Hind site I should have asked for way more.
This is not what they advertise and regardless of the apology and standing good on what should have never been I would never use them again. This was my kids first hunt and it sucked !
It was clear that there was no planning that went into this on their end and it was thrown together last minute. I was told they don’t make much profit on these hunts. I think that is complete BS!
I don’t have all kinds of money and I don’t go on numerous hunts a year like some of the people I’ve met. I save up and when I’m fortunate enough to draw a tag I go.
For that kind of money I have certain expectations and none of them were met.
If anyone else have a similar story I’d love to hear it.
So for the 23’ experience,
My 13 year old son drew his first tag. It was for mule deer 3rd rifle unit 2B. I Was notified by the outfitter that he drew and the deposit was made. Months passed. 2 weeks before the hunt we hadn’t heard anything as to where we were to go.
I emailed them and asked if we were going to be staying at the same house I stayed at in 22’ for the same hunt. I Was told yes and that an invoice was sent out a month ago with all the info. I never received anything and this wasn’t the first time I had to chase them down to get that information.
We decided to drive out. 2200 miles in 3 days. The first night on the road I get an email saying that the house has changed because they needed a bigger house. I Was provided an address to an Air B&B. I noticed on the map it was way further away from the previous address and way further away from where we’d be hunting. Ok.
We arrived around 4pm the day before the hunt to what I can only describe as quick flip double wide trailer in a meth head trailer park in a pretty developed area. No one was at the address , no one had been at the address , and the place was locked up. I called the outfitter , a guide from my previous two hunts, their secretary, a cook from a previous hunt until I got a hold of someone.
Was told I was at the right place and the guides were out scouting. I Was given an entry code to get in.
We unpacked and took a room. We waited a good two hours before a guide showed up. That’s when we were told that the outfitter wasn’t coming , there would be no cook , and the guide I hunted my last two hunts with wasn’t coming ( I texted him up to that day thinking he’d be with us and he never said one word he wasn’t going to be there). We were told the guides would take care of the food and that we’d be going out to eat. Eventually Guides and hunters started showing up. 3 guides 4 hunters in camp.
The guide we had was immediately pissed off due to the fact he had no bed and wasn’t going to sleep on the floor. Who could blame him? He told us to be ready at 5am and left to go stay at his buddies house a half hour away. 8pm comes around and my kid and I drove to find a restaurant because we were starving. Mind you there was zero food in this house. Just what I wanted to do after all that driving. The one guide in camp was more worried about drinking than setting up the house. It was a fend for yourself situation. Was told to keep receipts.
Next morning we get up to find that they did some shopping. I don’t know about anyone else but I didn’t spend 7500$ and drive 2200 miles to eat and live on goddamn snack bars, donuts, trail mix , and bologna and cheese sandwiches!
Now where we were hunting was 85 miles one way. Our guide who was irritated by the outfitter who hired him expressed his disgust at the situation as did I to him. He did promise us he would do his best for us though he never hunted the unit before. We got incredibly lucky and My son did shoot a great buck that morning. THE ONLY MEMORABLE EXPERIENCE OF THIS HUNT.
We got back and another hunter got a great buck as well. Our guide once again left. That night the guide who seemed to be running the camp got Pizza Hut delivered to the house and they partied all night.
The next day we went out with our guide to pack out the meat. When we returned the house was empty. The guide running the camp left after his hunter tagged out and so did his hunter. My guide skinned the face out and skull capped our deer so we could take it home to my taxidermist. We then parted ways. I tipped him very well considering. The next morning my son and I left an empty food less home to come home.
Now for the final kick in the balls! We drove 3.5 days to get this half frozen cape to my taxidermist. We kept it dry , wrapped up , and ice packed for that time. I went right to her before going home. We get there, she lays it out , takes one look at it and says
“ I can’t do anything with this! The cape itself isn’t spoiled but whoever caped it cut the entire brisket off of it rendering it useless “
I contacted the outfitter and demanded an apology, some reimbursement, and a replacement cape. I did get all three eventually. Hind site I should have asked for way more.
This is not what they advertise and regardless of the apology and standing good on what should have never been I would never use them again. This was my kids first hunt and it sucked !
It was clear that there was no planning that went into this on their end and it was thrown together last minute. I was told they don’t make much profit on these hunts. I think that is complete BS!
I don’t have all kinds of money and I don’t go on numerous hunts a year like some of the people I’ve met. I save up and when I’m fortunate enough to draw a tag I go.
For that kind of money I have certain expectations and none of them were met.
If anyone else have a similar story I’d love to hear it.
Jonfitter#1
Member
- Messages
- 12
I did reply above
coryb
Active Member
- Messages
- 305
The “outfitter welfare” people are referencing is the state requirement that 10% of the tags available in the public draw are allotted for hunters who have contracted with a NM based outfitter. This has effectively created a client base for outfitters that otherwise likely wouldn’t be hiring them. It has also created an advantage in the draw for people who have more discretionary funds for hunting (whether through wealth or prioritization).
The liberal hunters (which there are a lot more of than I would have guessed) hate the idea of financial status providing opportunity that others don’t have. This is usually what is being referenced when they say “outfitter welfare” more than the benefit to outfitters.
The liberal hunters (which there are a lot more of than I would have guessed) hate the idea of financial status providing opportunity that others don’t have. This is usually what is being referenced when they say “outfitter welfare” more than the benefit to outfitters.
PCPython
Active Member
- Messages
- 808
PM Sent
Jonfitter#1
Member
- Messages
- 12
JustMuleys
Active Member
- Messages
- 382
If you truly feel you got hosed by an Outfitter or Guide.....Or Both.
I’ve had several horrible outfitting / guides disasters over the many years I’ve been hunting— New Mexico is far the worst but others are lousy too !!!! No matter all the checking you do, you never know until you show up- then it’s too late, way too late ! No help either from G & F anytime anywhere! No one cares. Period.
Only answer to this mess is to maybe get some personal references from people you know as trustworthy & check them out with detailed phone calls- no letters !!!
Best of Luck,
Jerry Gold In Windsor, Colorado
BUGLEnmIN
Very Active Member
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- 2,982
What a dandy ! N what a shot!
Jonfitter#1
Member
- Messages
- 12
Thank you! He took him at 565yds with my GAP 300 win mag
mozey
Long Time Member
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- 3,203
Much congrats to you and your son! Not trying to downplay the rest of your experience, but a buck like that would definitely help me forget a lot of pain and suffering...
txhunter58
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,744
Very nice buck.
I am curious. Did they pressure you/your son to shoot that far, or was that your choice?
I went on a guided hunt where before the hunt they wanted me to be able to shoot 6-800 yards. I told them straight up that my max was 400. Opening morning we saw a shooter bull at 600 yards and he did not pressure me to shoot. We worked around on another ridge and took a different bull of equal quality at 350
I am curious. Did they pressure you/your son to shoot that far, or was that your choice?
I went on a guided hunt where before the hunt they wanted me to be able to shoot 6-800 yards. I told them straight up that my max was 400. Opening morning we saw a shooter bull at 600 yards and he did not pressure me to shoot. We worked around on another ridge and took a different bull of equal quality at 350
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