Our sports' future looks pretty sad

[Ungulate]

Can you imagine the vegetarians fighting with the vegans? Do you think Peta has arguements and practical death threats that they give to the animal shelters?
I think things are getting a little out of hand. Not everyone who picks up an antler shed is a hunter. I'd like to see bobcatbess beat up a third grader (girl)on her way home from school, who just happens to pick up a discard in a snowpile along the road. I am just about ready to give up hunting and contributing money to the states wildlife division and just pick up discards. It seems like many of the hunters on this forum and on others are trying to exclude those who pick up antlers from themselves. If that is what they want then soon they will stand alone and have the mountain to themselves on the opener of the hunting season for just a few more years.
This law was developed because of complaining hunters, not proactive ones that produce evindence and prosecute those who kill game by harrassing them. If there is any finger pointing to be done it is to be done at those who complain about game harrasment. Those who witness it need to report it, not complain about it.

 

[boneaddict]

I agree and disagree with you. You paint a GOOD picture of a child picking up a shed antler. Now hear is my .02

the neat thing about shed antler hunting is that its a renewable resource.

the problem is that it is a resource. Back in the day when this all began, the hills were peaceful in the spring. Chalky and brown ones layed everywhere. The first HUMAN thing to do was share wih everyone. THEN they wanted a peace of the action and it continued. NOW there are more people than resource. In order to succeed it becomes a competition. EVERYONE wants an edge. Most of us have boundaries. SOME don't. Thats where the laws come in. You say hunters complaining. People complain because they don't like going past their boundaries because its wrong, but some don't care and this is frustrating. There isn't alot you can do about it. You can offer a tune-up, and though it sounds good at the time, its also wrong and not practical. It sure might make you feel better. I doubt bobcat plans on beating up anyone, especially a kid. I bet the bungholes out there running game with their ATVs might stand a chance for a little "roadrage" funny thing is, they don't think they are doing anything wrong.
Witnessing this type of behavior first hand, you find yourself standing there really mad. It is exptremely hard to enforce wildlife harassment laws. What is harassment. Its not like the animal drops in his tracks and dies. He may die that night when there is no energy left. It is however easier to see a guy "out taking pictures" with an armful of sheds. Its also easy for the game guys to tag sheds. Montana is doing it. Yellowstone does it. they put a transmitter inside the antler and then come to your house. Kind of hard to deny that!!!! If people weren't people, we wouldn't have to have these laws. Its evolution! Don't get me wrong, I think it sucks. I was one of those guys that really enjoyed the old days, and literally had miles of mountains to myself. Now its a joke. now I can't hardly take my child out to find an "easy" shed. I have to hike 10 miles, or get up at the buttcrack of dawn.

 

[boneaddict]

by the way, I agree with you that you should report violators, but still, I doubt much happens. the violation that I saw was a small aircraft chasing elk on the winter range. he kept dive bombing them and chasing the herd. I called it in, with serial number or registration number of aircraft, but who knows what happened. I never got called back. If they followed up, all he has to do is deny it, or say I was just out flying. Should I have perforated his gas tank with lead. Probably not advisable. I did make myself known and he left. Unofrtanately I didn't get any good pictures to prove what he was doing.

 

[Ungulate]

I appreciate your input bone addict. I also appreciate your effort in reporting the plane dive bombing the elk. I just don't understand why the DNR wouldn't regulate ATV traffic. Your plane incident is dissapointing, even more so if it was an actual DNR plane. I just feel that ATV's contribute more pressure on game than shed hunters on foot.

 

[Lowedog]

Ungulate,

I would have to disagree with you on ATV's puting more pressure on game than shed hunters on foot. ATV'ers who go offroad chasing animals which is illegal, yes, but for the most part especially in the area I live in not likely as it's too steep. Guys on foot can trail deer anywhere. I know of people who will follow a big buck sun up to sun down days on end just waiting for it to drop. That is undue stress. I would say that for every guy out there roaming the hills on an ATV there is probably 5 guys out on foot or more. I don't see any shed hunters on ATV's in the areas I shed hunt and maybe it's differant where your from but I would guess there are way more people on foot than on ATV's

I ride dirt bikes and see deer all the time while out riding. Most times they will just stand there and watch you ride by. Now if you are on foot or stop your bike to look at them they will bound away.

-Lowedog

 

[Ungulate]

Lowedog,
I appreciate your input. It makes sense that some of the guys who will follow a buck from sun up to sun down would be applying a lot of preasure on deer. I have just observed ATV riders in pursuit of heards without antlers under the assumption that some of them are bucks that have dropped. In many cases they are our herds, of does and fawns and the fawn survival rate decreases do to the stress from motorized vehicles.
This occurs in the lower elevations where the feeble and smaller deer prefer to winter. The sageflats are often a last resort location for the big bucks that hold up in higher elevations. So while ATV riders pursue the fawns and does they also destroy the feed for all of the deer. On the land I hike I cannot escape ATV tracks and deer must feel the same especially while being pursued by riders.

 

[Ungulate]

You are right though we might just be spending time in different areas. I don't want to create a conflict between us I have just observed a lot of good winter ground damaged from ATV's. Peope on foot or horseback don't seem to smash sagebrush to such an extent.

 

[boneaddict]

One area I like to go to do photography gets hammered with ATV traffic looking for sheds. They start in January and systematically go up and down the ridges and so forth gridding the area until June when the elk are done. they have done it so much they have begun to create roads and washes. Its pretty bad. I can't shed hunt there because its reservation and whites aren't allowed to. This year the snow conditions are bad for even them. Its either too deep, or crusted enough that it hampers their efforts, but not crusted enough for them to ride on top. As with any user group, any abuse or too much of anything can be bad. Whose to say my photography doesn't cause stress, though the goal is to go undetected at best. The thing about ATVs is that they can cause damge when not used appropriately, and it also becomes an access issue. Folks can push harder and farther than before and the deer have fewer places to go. No different than snowmobiles, though snowmachines don't generally tear up the woods. It on't be long until every state has ashed antler season. That outlook is sad. I think its similiar to gun control. Gun control does nothing but keep firearms out of the hands of law abiding citizens while the criminals still get theirs. This will be the same. Law abiding citizens won't be out hedding, but the criminals will continue to fill their stacks. That is SAD!

 

[Lowedog]

That's too bad that people feel they need to do those kinds of things to find a shed. I have seen people chase deer on bikes and reported it. I have also seen bike tracks in some pretty nasty stuff which totally amazed me. It would have been easier to walk these places. There are areas around here though that get hit pretty hard by shed hunters on snowmobiles. You will see where they ride almost every inch of a basin. I have to think that this packs the snow down on the feed and makes it hard for the deer to get at it.

You have to wonder why, in areas that are over run with ATV abuse, that law enforcement isn't there to do something. Those places are obvious, so why isn't something being done about it?

-Lowedog