Opportunity Units

[rackmagic]

It would be a shame for all of us outdoorsmen and women to let this so called "management of our elk herds" happen. We, as hunters, are the stewards of our animals. Let's get to the rac meetings and stop the madness. First of all, the DNR has said that opportunity needs to be increased. I agree, but not all at once and at the expense of two units. If they (DNR) want to make the Wasatch and the Nebo or Manti their opportunity units; does it make sense to over harvest the opportunity makers? The Cows. I have spent my life in the middle of the Wasatch unit. These numbers are not indicative of what I see on the unit. If we want more opportunity, lets do it right. Build our herds first so we can then harvest! I understand there are deer herds, habitat, farmers, cattlemen, and a few other issues to deal with, but let's get it right. Don't let the pendulum swing too far the wrong way. Tuesday night April 19, RAC at Sprinville High.

 

[B_BOP_A_LU_LU]

You related to Lil Beav?

Good Luck Boys at the Central RAC!

Hope you get their attention!

You can plainly see they are wanting to decimate this Unit!

$$$!

$$$!

$$$!

And Piss on the Herd!

Total BS & I don't even Hunt there!



I don't care if they're big or small!
If they throw lead I like em all!

 

[swbuckmaster]

I would have thought you would have been all for this one bess. Think about it! They can rebuild the whole elk herd all over again by stock piling bulls just like pre 2006.

Here are the SFW steps to cut opportunity and grow big bulls no one can hunt.

step 1. shoot the herd to under objective

step 2. kill most of the spikes

step 3. raise the age objective on unit cause age is the only
thing that grows big bulls. "cough BS!!"

step 4. Slash the LE tags because most of the spikes were shot

step 5. start stock piling old bulls know one wants to hang their tag on because they are big 5x5 or not over 350.

step 6. sit back and say look how good we did we have a unit where 400" bulls live we can now sell one LE tag to highest bidder and give 10 LE tags to the general public.

step 7. tell anyone that ever wants to hunt big bulls to stuff themselves.


Anyone with half a brain can see you cant hunt elk in the rut with a 99% success rate weapon and keep elk herds under objective if you want high end quality. It simply cant happen!

Even a Dumb azz tard with no hunting skills what so ever can go out that time of year with that weapon and shoot himself the largest bull on the mountain. Then you have to sit back and wounder what happed to the quality.

This is the only answer to this style hunting madness and I'm totally against it. Its also not the division that is doing this.
The pro sfw wildlife board goons are the ones pushing this bs.

 

[rackmagic]

Well I hope you are not seeing in my post where I said anything about quality. I think my entire post was about OPPORTUNITY!! This is not about a sportsmen's organization. This is about sportsmen and women stepping up and protecting the rights of hunter's and the animals. If you want to make this about you and your hatred for a organization than go ahead, but otherwise go to a RAC and make yourself useful. Thanks Bess for your support. Some of us are really for the animals and by the way I do have 17 points and would like to be able to, when it is my turn, go out and see an elk cow or bull!!!!!

 

[Cam@strawberry]

Typical SWbuck SFW hating rhetoric.....jumping at every opportunity to further a personal agenda......Nothing to do with SFW and here he comes spouting off about the evils of the organization......

this proposal is downright stupid.....it is beyond an intelligent minds ability to comprehend. Anyone who believes that the Division is on track with this is lost in a fantasy world......probably playing tidly winks with SW.

Sure SW you can kill a 170 buck off general units every year, your a super hunter. I'm not and it's a damn hard thing to find a decent deer to kill......Same thing with elk I bet you could kill a nice bull in the middle of the ocean, animals must just flock to you, however, us regular joes are getting screwed!

 

[swbuckmaster]

Berry
when are you going to figure it out that the division is not the ones making these decisions. The divisions hands are tied. They cant even do their job properly. They are puppets!

you can bet that there are going to be tags issued when loads of farmers complain that the elk tore up there fields. Someone has to pay for the damage. If it were up to me Id tell the farmers where to go.

You can bet the Le tags are going to get cut when one organization is pushing the spike hunts and the division is forced by law to keep herd numbers at a certain level. So its a fact when the herds are at or above objective more spike tags will be issued and this means less six points later and more LE tags cut. Its a fact a 6 point bull was once a spike!

You can bet that the quality you and I hold so dearly is going to go down when you have a 99% success rate, 3 day or less hunt during the rut. They are way too effective at shooting the top end quality out. Fact!

Like I said above "Im not for any of this crappy management. It sucks!!!" I am a die hard trophy hunter. I hunt big antlers! I want the 400" bulls! I want the 200" bucks! I also want to hunt them every year! This is why I have almost max deer points for the henry mtns. If I didn't want monster horns id put in for the bookcliffs. At least I can say the division is going to have to give me a tag some day. Im waiting my turn just like any other Joe!

So you can try and make fun of me for being successful but I earn the animals I take with loads of boot leather in the hills. I scout year round. I sacrifice the range of my weapon to hunt longer. I sacrifice the range of my weapon so I can hunt more often. I work the system for all its worth. I want big antlers... When the rules of the game change I change!

I guess im sorry you feel so handicapped when it comes to hunting what else can I say.

By the way the 10,000 cow tags suck, and im against them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[goofyelk]

Rack magic,,,,,I agree 100%.

B_bop,,,Bet you right.

Berry,,,,,Spot on!

SW,,,WTF, maybe you should head back to the UWN.
They like that kinda stuff over there..

 

[swbuckmaster]

Berry
By the way do you know why the quality of the bulls were so good pre 2006?

Ill tell you why.

step 1.
The herds were building up to carrying capacity. The special interest groups and guys at the wracs could stock pile bulls by limiting big bull tags because most of all the units were under objective.

step 2.
They then could kill the cows and still limit the number of big bull tags. Most units didn't have spike tags either so all the units could have a big pool for a monster bulls to come out of.

I new it wouldn't work without boom and bust cycles. I new they couldn't keep killing the cows cause bulls dont breed bulls. So its not a surprise to me when I see BS management like this. You just might be witnessing a rebuilding cycle that is all part of the BS piss poor management plan!

 

[Cam@strawberry]

dude SW when are you gonna figure it out, spike hunts have nothing to do with quality, i'm all for them!

Ten years ago a 350 bull on the snatch was the closest thing to holy that you would ever come across. Last year our hunters had two chances at bulls that we guessed over 400, since the Spike tags induction this unit has done better and better each year.

The only time we have ever seen it go backwards is when large numbers of Cow tags have been issued. Like this proposal.

SW, bull tags have very very little to do with how good a unit is in my opinion, obviously that can change if we go over board on issueing them. The determining factor is how many of the producers do we kill??????

The equation is simple, MORE COWS=MORE ELK, MORE ELK=MORE BULLS, MORE BULLS=MORE TAGS, MORE TAGS=SWBUCKHUNTERHAPPY!

The more bulls you have, the better chance you have at big bulls. I know Genetics play a roll and a few other bits but the vast majority of the deal is just how many elk you have Bulls and Cows.

By law the State is required to manage to a certain number, I'm pretty sure on the wasatch its 5500, here are some numbers for you that ought to raise your eyebrow SW

ESTIMATED POP 7700
PROPOSED ANTLERLESS 3325
PROPOSED LE 600
PROPOSED SPIKE 15000
UNLIMITED ARCHERY ANTLERLESS

Ok so with a 60% success rate with LE and Rifle Antlerless alone, Population objectives would fall to 5405 95 elk below objective, now add in the spikes and archers personally i'd say around 1000 more elk betweent the two and you fall to.........


4400 now a 1100 below objective!!!!!!!!! Do you think anyone has thought these numbers thru??????

 

[swbuckmaster]

":4400 now a 1100 below objective!!!!!!!!! Do you think anyone has thought these numbers thru??????"

Yes I honestly think they have looked at the numbers and this is why im pissed. If they shoot the herd back they can then cut the big bull tags and start stock pilling big bulls.

The issues I have with the spike tags are the tag numbers keep going up. I have also seen where whole elk herds have all the bulls shot out of them in one year. I also dont want to hunt spikes or cows anymore then you want to hunt 2pt bucks. So why do all of the LE units in this state need to be managed the same way with low opportunity at big bulls?

you dont need to answer any of my questions they are just the reason I have and why Im against this whole mess.

 

[nebo12000]

Tags are being cut on some units. They have to try and make up the revenue loss. It is my guess that on units that are over objective, they can justify increasing tags to help offst the revenue loss. It is interesting to me that the Big Game portion of the budget is the only one that pays for itself -- PLUS. All the other programs- waterfowl, fishing, upland game, and other community wildlife programs are dependent upon the revenue from Big Game tag sales. There are alot of programs that they have to run that are not fully funded by either the State or the Feds. Its a tough balancing act. Also, I don't think that they really expect that they are going to end up getting the number of increased antlerless tags they have proposed on some units.So they intentionally over propose tag numbers thinking it will be lower in the end but they really end up with the revenue they figure they need.
It would be nice if the other programs would be required to pull more of their weight where it comes to revenue. I know that portions of the non-big game programs overlap and benefit big game somewhat, but I don't think big game hunters should have to shoulder so much of the revenue burden

 

[Cam@strawberry]

+100 Nebo now we are gettin at it........ it ain't about tags at all or the animals or conservation. It's all about utter mismanagement. if the right legislature were to understand the way this is run it would probably be shut down.......I would shudder to think what would happen if we took the governer to a rac meeting and put these numbers up in front of him.

Sportsmen generate a pretty chunk of change by the time you figure gas, gear, license sales, and other amenities this is a serious deal. Hundreds of Millions of dollars kind of a deal

 

[rackmagic]

A couple of times in the comments posted, The words "over objective" came out. I am intersested in how the process of obtaining an objective goes? A number is set. By cattlemen,Forestry,DNR,and many others. we work to obtain that number and then we "count" the numbers on a couple of units show a dramatic increase. Look at the cache and the wasatch almost double on the cache unit and one third on the wasatch. There is no way the division can no the numbers well enough to make decisions like those proposed. We don't even do harvest reporting on archery. Those tags are unlimited. So how can we no how many were harvested? NOT A GOOD TIME TO GUESS!!!!

 

[wileywapati]

CAT listen up!!!! I'm gonna SPLAIN' one last time!!! Damn!!!

LE Elk units are managed in a blended way. Bulls are managed by age class. Right now only a couple units were not WAY above the management objective. I'm not 100% exact but the Wasatch and Manti target is around 6.5 years. Where the higher end units have higher objectives you get less tags for LE bulls and vice versa for the lower age class units. You with me still???

Since most units are ABOVE OBJECTIVE on age class they can give more tags until the target is reached.

Population targets are where the cow slaughters come in. You inch obsessed douchebags get your starfishes in a pucker when bull tags or spike tags get increased so the only option left is to whack the ##### out of the cows. BULLS AND BUCKS have very little to do with herd size, something you douchebags and the Wildlife Board can't seem to understand by going with the future failure that is option 2 in deer management but thats a whole other conversation.

So in a nutshell what you are pushing through lack of being edumacated and not using the stuff between your ears is this.

Less and Less bull tags = more cows being whacked every year.
Less and Less bull tags = deer continuing to suffer.
Less and Less bull tags = more spike tags on all units.
Less and Less bull tags = more bulls and cows being sniped in farmers fields out in the Basin in the winter months.

So please keep spouting the same old myths year after year. Keep complaining about the same old problems year after year
but for God's sake don't do a thing to change any of it.

Pass the Koolaid, THE CAT needs a re-fill











2010 TOTALS
P.E.T.A. = 0 HUNTERS GONE
UTAH WILDLIFE BOARD = 13,000 HUNTERS GONE

 

[slcmuley]

This post started out asking concerned hunters to be present at the Springville RAC. I wasn't able to attend. Did anybody go? Was this topic discussed? Let's hear it!