OMG what happened to Idaho

WASHMULEYHUNTER · Oct 14, 2010

I moved over here about two months ago from Washington. Heard stories from hunters coming back from and Idaho read stories in the past. So when my wife was offered a job here couldn't wait to come. After looking for deer and talking to people the public deer are gone for the most part at least in numbers. Ive covered unit 39 and 32 above Emmitt with 32 having the best outlook. In Washington they don't have the Gene pool but they certainly have numbers of deer. You can hike 1-3 miles a canyon into a basin and be guaranteed to at least see a good 10-20 deer and hopefully a shooter buck. The same looking country here I haven't even seen a single deer. I have been to Montana and Wyoming also and can't help to see deer there. Did I move to Idaho just when all the deer died or is most of the good hunting here during draw tag hunting and private propery? I'm also wondering if all the atv allowances and antlerless tags may have contributed to the decline in the deer herd??

swampmule · Oct 14, 2010

The Idaho Fish$Game are the reason for the decline of the deer and elk.
There greed of the $$$$$$$$$$$ is what brought this about.

The surprising thing about young fools is how many survive to become old fools.

Muleymemories · Oct 14, 2010

Still good bucks out there just have to put in your time. We see an average of 35-40 different bucks a year. Takes time and effort to find those kinds of spots. Good luck to you! Welcome to Idaho and dont let the big mountains discourage you!

ridgeline outdoors
blacks creek guide gear

IDmuleyjunkee · Oct 14, 2010

+1 muleymemories, there is still some great hunting in open units, although the best is on controlled hunts. I prefer the late archery hunt around my hometown, and I tend to see a few different bucks coming and going checking does. Best of luck to you, and welcome!!!

IDBoneCollector · Oct 14, 2010

Unit 32 and 32A is where i spend 90% of my time but i am lucky enough to have access to a couple big ranchers ground which helps a ton, and no you didn't move here in the wrong time its been this way for a while, these units you mention are just too close to 1A and 2C and are soo over ran with hunters that the deere have moved to where there is less pressure ie private gound. unit 39 if you got the time still hold a good amount of nice bucks up high but you are gonna have to put in the time and get the heck away from the roads and work for it sorry for the bad news but the F&G have $ on the brain

IdahoMuley · Oct 15, 2010

You cant call your self a true Idaho hunter till you hunt muleys in
the old growth brush infested wilds of the panhandle!!!!!!Oh and Welcome to the state good luck to you!!
Muley Man!

OLDHORNHUNTER · Oct 15, 2010

still some good bucks in both 32 & 39 but yeah u really have too work for them..32 has so much private land & alot of those people have their land leased or they have had a buttful of disrespectful hunters & just say NO..39 get a map & a mule or a trail bike & get away from the roads..I hunt 31 mostly & went opening day walked aprox 12 to 14 miles we saw around 25 bucks but nothing that screamed opening day shooter biggest we passed on was around 25" 5x4 give him another few years & he will be a smoker for opening day...thank F&G for out current decline in deer & elk..when they have goals of 15 to 20 bucks per 100 does & u see 3 to 100 in 10 miles of Good country there is a problem..but F&G dont care they want the $$ not the herd count or quality..perfect point nonresidents can buy 2 elk tags..nut a resident can only buy 1..but if he wants a 2nd tag he can also buy a nonresident tag for like $400 bucks if it isnt about the $$ why cant a resident buy a 2nd tag at the resident fee ???? good luck on your hunt

idahobuckfever · Oct 15, 2010

Okay, say residents could buy 2 elk tags at resident prices. Snow starts flying in 39 and it's a good year. Wow, total slaughter everyone shot two bulls. Go ahead slap each other on the backs. What do you think we would all be bitching about the next year. Theres no elk, must be the wolves, again. If you really want a second tag you should have to pay for it. Don't get me wrong, I would love to be able to shoot two elk or deer. First, I can't afford a second tag. Next, the numbers of game just are not there to support it. Good hunting...

IdahoSmitty · Oct 16, 2010

I had it in my mind that I would try and get a "meat buck" this year and later in the season try for a big mature deer. At first it seemed as though it would be easy to take a "meat buck" and after spending 4 days bivying out on the mountain I have decided to try and take a mature buck and save 300 bucks. I figured I did not need the meat that bad and hopefully the Idaho wildlife would benefit from it more. (me not taking a second deer) In the 4 days I have camped out on the mountain I have only seen a handfull of deer one of which was a 24inch three point that I watched for around 30 minutes at less than forty yards. It was a good three point buck but would be better next year. I hope that it wont come back to bite me later. It has been a tough 4 days on the mountain but my spirits are high and I am a firm believer in the idea that, good things will come to those who put their time in.
Is there anything we as hunters can do to change this situation?
Can one person make a difference?
I just want to be done worrying about the state of Idaho's wildlife situation and want to start doing something about it.
What can we do?

Good luck to all, Smitty

scubasteven25 · Oct 16, 2010

Smitty,

I'm with you. Having shot some big muleys down in New Mexico, I want to hold out for something mature. So far 4 days spent in the mountains of north 39 and only does seen as of yet. One person can start making a difference, but it takes a concerted effort from all hunters. I am starting to second guess myself now that I have yet to even see a buck, but I will not cave in. Plus there is always archery season. Keep your spirits up and keep putting in time, it only takes one deer to change a whole season around in an instant.

WASHMULEYHUNTER · Oct 16, 2010

My beliefs are that one hunter at a time can help. But first it must start with the ones that have control.(IDFG) In my opinion Idaho Fish Game has to start with 5 things first:
1: Start a 3-point minimum on Mule Deer in all areas.
2: Discontinue all the antlerless hunts and go to a draw only antlerless in those areas that buck to doe ratioes show that it is needed.
3: Shorten Season to allow less harvest for a few years until the herd recovers.
4: Discontinue all the atv and motorcycle access to remote areas to allow deer and elk escapement.
5: Get the Federal Government to Take Wolves off the Endangered species List!!!

idahobuckfever · Oct 16, 2010

You do have some good ideas here. We can all make a difference. The only idea of yours that I would question is ATV use. I'm more concerned about the herds than my ATV. My so called best spot for deer is 10+ miles up a mountain. If the trail was closed I guess I could go see the deer on their winter range.

Pre64 · Oct 17, 2010

>My beliefs are that one hunter
>at a time can help.
>But first it must start
>with the ones that have
>control.(IDFG) In my opinion Idaho
>Fish Game has to start
>with 5 things first:
>1: Start a 3-point minimum on
>Mule Deer in all areas.
>
>2: Discontinue all the antlerless hunts
>and go to a draw
>only antlerless in
>those areas that buck to
>doe ratioes show that it
>is needed.
>3: Shorten Season to allow less
>harvest for a few years
>until the herd recovers.
>4: Discontinue all the atv and
>motorcycle access to remote areas
>to allow deer and elk
>escapement.
>5: Get the Federal Government to
>Take Wolves off the Endangered
>species List!!!

You want big deer start a three point maximum. ATV use has been discontinued in many areas. How bout keeping wolves out of the big game wintering ground when they are vulnerable??

I've had no trouble finding deer. But, elk are getting scarce.

idahobuckfever · Oct 17, 2010

Can you expand on why you think a 3-point maximum would work to achieve mature deer? Area 40 went to 2-point system and many larger deer were shot and left to rot. You know, the 2-point only, 5 year plan that has lasted longer than that. I think a 3-point system would put us back 10-years, mature deer would be shot the first few years and left.

Wolves are a big issue but not the only one.

madmoose · Oct 17, 2010

not so much for just 32 and 39, what if f&g controlled archery hunts in the same units they controll it with rifle...units that should be spectacular with deer or elk go unbridaled for archery hunters(which i am myself) doesnt take to many bow hunters to put the hurt on...to me controlled rifle an deer units are the bowhunters playground...bowhunters can snuff out the big boys before rifle even has a chance...then in some units not really controlled bowhunters can come back in and finish off whatever straglers made it through....
just saying if someone is going to manage an area(s) then manage them, with all aspects not just one...kinda like chroming a turd

Idahoron · Oct 17, 2010

madmoose You are 100% right! F&G are way over selling tags. Antelope tags should be cut by 50% to 75%. They need to look at how many mature bucks can be killed and only issue that many tags. Once the population goes up raise the tag numbers. Same thing with Deer and Elk. The Idaho F&G sells 75% more tags than we have game for. The F&G are playing a game of selling too many tags and hoping that most of them are not filled. I hate to say it but tag numbers need to be CUT!!! No one should be able to buy a left over non-resdent tag. That implies that we have EXTRA deer and elk. WE DON'T!!! Stop over selling!! Only youth should be able to hunt a controlled anterless animal. Populations are at such a low point right now I don't even want to go hunting unless I draw a good tag. I might go out a couple of times and poke around but I don't spend much hunting open hunts. I know there are pictures of guys that shoot deer here but to be honest most of them are small bucks that should be left to grow. Idaho has became the state to shoot a small buck, and get skunked for elk. Tag sales reflect that is NOT what hunters want. Someone needs to figure out that the F&G needs to be ran as a business. Provide goods that people want and you will get sales. Make customers happy and they will be repeat customers. This is not hard to figure out!!
Lets say you went to the store and you wanted a loaf of bread. The way the F&G would run that store is they would see you come in the door. They would charge you to shop there first. Then they would ask you to pay for the bread first. Then you go back and you find out the bread was gone and they didn't tell you it was gone. Then they tell you, you have the ?opportunity? to come try to shop again and see if you can get some bread. Then they tell you the fee you paid to get into the store does not mean you will ever get a loaf of bread. Finally you find a stale old roll and take it. Do you think more, and more people will want to shop there? NO! That is why the tag sales are in the tank. When you buy a tag there is no guarantee you will get an animal. BUT there has to be SOME reasonable chance that an animal is there. To be honest I don't believe the population numbers and I am not the only one. A lot of non residents feel the same way. They are going where the game is and that is NOT Idaho. Ron

Pre64 · Oct 17, 2010

I agree Ron. However, FG is in a pickle. If they don't get the dollars they need then wildlife management goes on general fund dollars. Not good for hunters, not good for game. What to do??? I dunno. Raise fees and raise quality? I'd buy a deer or elk tag every other year at twice the price if that meant half the hunting pressure and a healthy herd. Deer one year, elk the next.

basspimp64 · Oct 17, 2010

LAST EDITED ON Oct-17-10 AT 07:56PM (MST)[p]i think idaho is declining due to a bunch of reasons. i went in five to six miles on saturday, dayt before opening day in unit 39 and my son, i, and a good friend hunted opening day and the morning of the following day we passed a handful of bucks and two four point bucks, one going 30 to 32 inches wide but he only had one antler. i had to let him go and told my 13 yr old to let the other go. we have a lot of time to hunt don't shoot the adolesent 4 point, hopefully some weather will come. i did see a big big big bear and actually had a tag for one and decided to pass due to two reason one afraid i might get a bad shot and im camped about 400 yards from where we saw it and did not want to hike the thing out! i do have a question after that, on my way home i talked to somebody and they said this year you do not have to hike out the meat of a bear, this year...is that true, i would still hike most of it out but like the ribs would take a lot of wieght off if i did not have too.... 39 still have potential just need to get away from the hunters who dont go very far off the road

Idahoron · Oct 17, 2010

Over selling something they don't have is a problem that has dug a huge hole. If they have to live with less money then something has got to go. It doesn't mean prices HAVE to go up. Some services can and need to be cut.
F&G should be able to charge the general fund for managing non game species, or cut them out of active management. My hunting dollars managing bats is a joke. I know they have to manage all wildlife, but if there is less money something has to go. I think state game departments are like the federal government. They get bigger and bigger. Why? Why does the F&G have to constantly grow? They add more people, buy more equipment, study more endangered species. For what? We used to have pheasant hunting. Now that is for the most part gone Small game was what most of us learned to hunt. Now the focus is on big game because small game is gone. And I can say that big game is not the best way to teach kids to hunt.
I feel that the fish side of the department should stand on its own. And the Game side should stand on it's own. If fishing is in the hole cut back on planting. If they cut back on planting reduce harvest. Thousands and thousands of dollars are spent on river, lake and stream surveys. They accomplish NOTHING! The almost give away a senior fishing license and they are the ones catching all the planted fish!!!!! Then they take their grandkids and now they can kill a whole fish truck full of fish and who pays the bill? Not the seniors or their grandkids. They plant fish that can't reproduce. WHY? Well if the fish reproduce on their own we don't need them!!
If the game side is not holding its own weight make it do it NOW. If the money is not there for helicopter flights stop them. We didn't have helicopter surveys back in the 60?s when we had HUGE numbers of deer. We have all had to tighten our belts. Some of us lost our belts but we are still trying to support the F&G. How long before they are planting deer and elk for guys to shoot? That is what is going to have to happen.
How long can we support a bloated state money pit that has no oversight and is not held accountable. We have studied deer until we don't have any. We have studied Sage grouse until we don't have any. We have studied pheasants until we don't have any. Is there a pattern here? Lets cut tags, and study predators. After we have some animals to hunt then lets talk about money.
I find it appalling that I drove through Oregon and saw LOTS of deer, LOTS of antelope. If you drive through Montana you see TONS of deer and antelope. Drive through Wyoming. We are losing our way of life in Idaho. A lot of us live here because of hunting and fishing. We should DEMAND we get more for our money when it comes to management of our wildlife. Or we should have the ability to outsource the job to someone that can. Ron