NR 60/40 split Question for NR's

M

mulecreek

Very Active Member
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1,994
Assuming the change to 60/40, special/regular, change goes through how many of you that are currently putting in for the regular price licenses will switch to the special price license?

How many of you that wont pay the special fee are going to drop out entirely assuming your odds with regular fees drop dramatically?

Many have said that this change make things better for those that are rich. Is a price difference of $240 for deer and antelope or $480 for elk really the difference between rich and middle class? Don't get me wrong I do not agree with switching the percentage. I am a resident and did not fight against it either but to me it is not a game changing difference in cost. NR tags are pricey in every state and to me the difference is negligible given all the other costs associated with an out-of-state hunt. I am curious what others feel.
 
As an individual who likes to hunt and makes a limited amount of money, because I have 3 other individuals at home who depend upon me for their sustinence, that little amount of extra cash can go a long way in my home. The only way I will put in for special would be to cash in my points, get out of the system and not play the Wyoming game anymore. Since I will be hunting Wyoming, I will try and do it all in the regular draw.
 
My family will still apply for regular price tags, unless there is a special circumstance. The percentage change will make it harder on NR families to draw simply because it reduces the number of licenses available for the youth price. Out of state hunting is a luxury, but it makes it harder for my kids to draw permits. Not whining, just stating a fact.
 
To me it's not whether I can afford it, But is it worth paying the extra $1000ish dollars total for the tags. I probably won't pay the special price unless I want to get a tag and a point in the same year. With this change, Wyoming will lose money on my family.
 
We are dumping our elk points the next few years, and will go special. Deer and antelope will depend on the area, but more than likely we will not go special on those.

We (4 of us) want out of the points game in Wyoming.
 
Keep sending emails, there are 2 Wyoming based organizations that are still trying to kill 149, its not over yet.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-24-15 AT 05:41PM (MST)[p]The entire Senate. It passed the house and has passed Senate TRW committee and first reading. I was in Cheyenne today helping some other WY Resident hunters, kill another bad bill, but didn't hear if the second reading was today on 149.

Now is the time to contact the entire Senate and try to kill it on the floor.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-24-15 AT 06:06PM (MST)[p]Ogden Driskill [email protected]
Jim Anderson [email protected]
Curt Meier [email protected]
Tony Ross [email protected]
Fred Emerich [email protected]
Wayne Johnson [email protected]
Stephan A. Pappas [email protected]
Floyd Esquibel [email protected]
Chris Rothfuss [email protected]
Phil Nicholas [email protected]
Larry Hicks [email protected]
Bernadine Craft [email protected]
John Hastert [email protected]
Stan Cooper [email protected]
Paul Barnard [email protected]
Dan Dockstader [email protected]
Leland Christensen [email protected]
Henry Coe [email protected]
R. Ray Peterson [email protected]
Gerald Geis [email protected]
Bruce Burns [email protected]
Dave Kinskey [email protected]
Jeff Wasserburger [email protected]
Michael Von Flatern [email protected]
Cale Case [email protected]
Eli Bebout [email protected]
Bill Landen [email protected]
James L. Anderson [email protected]
Drew Perkins [email protected]
Charles Scott [email protected]
 
Definitely helps those with more money, no doubt. The increase could raise your cost of elk hunting significantly. ..I usually spend $1,000 to $1,500 on an elk hunt...this will definitely hurt those on a more limited budget. I don't like it at all. Raise the prices of each equally if you need the money, but don't unfairly penalize those with smaller budgets by changing the game.
 
Any NR that is in favor of this Bill is for it out of sheer greed for their own selfish purposes and for no other reason! It may not hurt a person like myself who has no family involved and can easily afford the extra money, but it certainly hurts those that take their wife and kids and may not be able to do so any longer if they have to pay an extra $1000 for their tags. That's what it will basically cost for a family of four to hunt deer or antelope if they have to go the special price to get their tags. Double that to $2000 if they want to do a combo hunt. This is what needs to be relayed to the Senators that are being told there will be a large monetary gain when it may not be that at all if it forces many out of hunting in Wyoming. Just tell them to look to Montana and Idaho to see what happens when prices are raised too high. If the Legislators are voting for this thinking that more money will go into the G&F coffers, a simple small percentage increase in everyone's fees that is long overdue would do more than this Bill will do and would be fair to everyone.
 
I must be selfish and greedy then. I'm not wealthy but I hold the belief than if N'R's aren't relevant financially we are going to see 90/10 with antelope,deer and elk eventually. Few things in life are free whether it's a trip to Disneyland or a hunt.

A lot of you guys are communist. I grew up poor and so I didn't go on ski trips, or expensive hunting trips like the kids whose folks had money. As a young man with young kids I couldn't afford to hunt the west with my kids so we hunted rabbits, upland birds, squirrels and ducks and geese it gave us something to work for. Eventually we gained the financial ability to hunt the west which my adult kids still do.

The 60/40 won't effect how I apply or hunt.

I'VE. LEARNED ONE. THING FROM THIS SITE, IF BUZZ iIS FOR IT, MY BEST INTEREST IS TO BE. ON THE OTHER SIDE. Buzz is a politician who is trying to build a constituency among Wyoming sportsman on this site. I've watch the same thing occur in other states. In a few years he'll be running for election for the legislature.

I'll give them a call tomorrow and tell them that I'm for the bill and hope it will get through 2nd and 3rd reading thanks for the reminder.
 
Hard to top what Corn said. the only thing I'd add is if WY wanted to they could raise all tags to the special price and do away with the cheap tags. consider yourself lucky they don't.


I'll put in for Wy deer,elk and pronghorn tags as long as I can lift my rifle. I don't care what they cost they're worth it.









Stay thirsty my friends
 
Seventy-five (75) of the nonresident
deer licenses set aside pursuant to this subsection shall
be used for a national bow hunt for deer. The licenses
authorized by this subsection shall be offered by drawing
to nonresident applicants prior to the drawing for the
remaining nonresident licenses issued.

I didn't know about this?
 
Pretty hard to put a dollar value on the return I get from hunting. I go to work everyday and work a but load of overtime so I can hunt. All of my hunts are shared with my family/friends. Best damn investment of my life regardless of cost!
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-24-15 AT 09:20PM (MST)[p]Passed 2nd reading today without a word being spoken. It'll be a done deal by noon.

At what price point does a tag go from making us relevant to being cost prohibitive? The Bills sponsor made it real clear that demand for the Special price tags has exceeded the supply and therefor the percentage needed to be increased. It doesn't take much thought to see the demand will continue to exceed the supply and the Special will be the norm in the future. When WY goes to $1100 for an Elk tag without so much as a whimper from NR the neighbors in AZ and NM won't be leaving money on the table for long.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-24-15 AT 09:44PM (MST)[p]>I must be selfish and greedy
>then. I'm not wealthy
>but I hold the belief
>than if N'R's
>aren't relevant financially we are
>going to see 90/10 with
>antelope,deer and elk eventually.
>Few things in life are
>free whether it's a trip
>to Disneyland or a hunt.
>
>
>A lot of you guys are
>communist. I grew up
>poor and so I didn't
>go on ski trips,
>or expensive hunting trips like
>the kids whose folks had
>money. As a young
>man with young kids I
>couldn't afford to hunt the
>west with my kids so
>we hunted rabbits, upland birds,
>squirrels and ducks and geese
>it gave us something to
>work for. Eventually we
>gained the financial ability to
>hunt the west which my
>adult kids still do.
>
>The 60/40 won't effect how I
>apply or hunt.
>
>I'VE. LEARNED ONE. THING FROM THIS
>SITE, IF BUZZ iIS
>FOR IT, MY BEST
>INTEREST IS TO BE. ON
>THE OTHER SIDE. Buzz
>is a politician who is
>trying to build a constituency
>among Wyoming sportsman on this
>site. I've watch the
>same thing occur in other
>states. In a few years
>he'll be running for election
>for the legislature.
>
>I'll give them a call tomorrow
>and tell them that I'm
>for the bill and hope
>it will get through 2nd
>and 3rd reading thanks for
>the reminder.


Yep, you got that selfish and greedy right! Think about this when you talk about NRs being relevant. NRs are more than relevant financially when 80% of the money the G&F takes in from licenses and fees every year comes from us. That is a huge part of the 55% of the money that runs the G&F for God's sake! If you think giving more than that will give you a say in anything when we never have had a say to begin with, then you are as far off on this as your best buddy jims! This Bill has nothing to do with anything other than subsidizing outfitters even more than they already are with the wilderness law that keeps NRs from big and trophy game hunting there without them. How can anyone not see that this Bill is going against the NAM and the everyday average Joe who the WYOGA and Legislators could give a ##### about! Communists you say and vote whichever way is opposite of BuzzH, LOL! What a bunch of BS! I don't believe I've heard any statements on these Forums that are any more ridiculous than those two and I find it hard to believe they came from you. You say you grew up poor and now have the ability to pay to hunt out west. Well I wouldn't say I grew up poor, but we certainly didn't have money to go anywhere other than maybe a state park for a day for a picnic. This Bill certainly won't hurt me either if it passes, but that's not who I'm thinking about. I'm looking at those families that may be on the border of not being able to hunt together and that this Bill would put right out of the picture if it passes! How can a Father think of spending an extra grand or two to take a family out if they are already scraping pennies together to do it? Yep, if it passes it could probably even lessen the number of people that might even hunt where I do, but I'll still do what's right and be on the side of the majority and not just for myself like several of you are. Keep up with the philosophy you guys are spouting and we'll eventually wind up just like Europe and what we have been trying to avoid for decades that is getting closer and closer as the years go by. Sad, very very sad!
 
The bill sponsor is full of chit and you know that more than anyone Bob.

While there is likely more demand for elk tags in the special draw, there isn't much demand at all for deer, and even less with pronghorn.

Its funny to look at the fiscal note on the bill last session ($266,000), compared to now ($424,000), then listen to the bill sponsor in committee lie and say $460,000 and now its $500,000.

That's some pretty interesting "math", and I wouldn't be surprised if the actual figure on the special license fee increase is more in line with last years $266,000. A vast majority of it will come from elk, a bit from deer, and even less from pronghorn.

The Chairman of the Senate TRW committee flat said they would revisit this bill and repeal it, if there isn't significant revenue gain. If this passes, I will be watching it very closely and if the actual increases are less than projections, I'm going to be forcing the TRW's hand and asking for them to repeal the bill.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-24-15 AT 10:08PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-24-15 AT 09:53?PM (MST)

I'll draw elk this year. I already have 3 antelope and 3 deer points. I'll stay in the regular draw until I draw these. I may keep doing general deer in Wyoming in the regular draw. Other than that I might stay out of Wyoming until I get a job promotion. I'll be honest this 60/40 split is unfortunate, but that wilderness law is a complete joke. So now you pay over a thousand dollars and can't even hunt in a lot of good areas without paying another 5 grand. Imagine if every state did this. I am going to take a good hard look at Colorado and Idaho. With the price increase and the bs wilderness law I might be better off in another state.
 
If you don't like the wilderness guide law and 60/40...give WYOGA a call and let them know. They carried the WGL to the legislature as well as the tiered license fee structure, increasing prices for preference points, and also the new 60/40.

Ask them why they hate NR hunters that don't use outfitters and assume that all NR's are wealthy.

Phone: 307 265-2376

Email: [email protected]
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-25-15 AT 03:03AM (MST)[p]He's doing what he can to sell the Bill, that's for sure. I suspect most of his colleagues have no idea one way or the other. I don't see any way on earth they'll get close to 500K out of this.
 
As a NR, I have held three Wyoming tags to date:

One pronghorn: special draw
One mule deer: special draw
One Shiras moose: no special draw available
Currently waiting on the elk results... in the special draw.

I'm not rich. I do work ALOT of overtime to help finance my western hunting addiction. Takes one weekend of OT to make up the price difference between a regular draw elk tag and a special draw elk tag. These hunts are vacations...and if my vacation budget was so tight that $500 wrecked the ship...I would stay home.

I'm not greedy. I play by the rules in front of me. To date, that has meant I apply for 40% of the available tags. Sounds like that may become 60% in the near future. I didn't ask for it....I did not submit NR comments to the Wyoming lawmakers...and I really don't care if it passes or gets shot down. Not my state...not my decision. I guess I have just become numb over the years to the ever increasing costs for NRs to hunt the West?
 
Buzz, again? really?

The outfitters are the reason your attempt to cut the NR sheep, moose , goat and bison quotas failed aren't they? was that or was that not in the NR hunters best interest? they may have alterior motives but they are not the enemy.

People it's all about the money. period. the state of WY doesn't give a FF about your budget and they don't want to hear your tales of woe . the only thing that will stop this trend is if demand falls below supply. rather than waste your time crying about it to deaf ears or joining Buzz forming a lynch mob for the outfitters just boycott WY . you'll be making a point and you'll be making my draw odds better at the same time. it's all good.















Stay thirsty my friends
 
I appreciate everyone's responses that stuck to the actual question. I think I fall in line with inarchers answer. I have been a NR of Wyoming on several occasions and I would typically put in for the special draw when it provided me a statistical advantage of drawing. If I ever move away I will do the same. If that makes me selfish and greedy then so be it. Heck just last year I was called selfish and greedy by a guy on MM and then this year that same person jumped to the side I was on. Greed and selfishness change over time, just like the rules of this tag game change.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-02-15 AT 02:20PM (MST)[p]>I just looked up this bill...it
>FAILED 3rd reading 6-23. I
>guess that's the end of
>it this year?
>
>http://legisweb.state.wy.us/2015/bi...itle=Special nonresident hunting license draw.

You must have missed the other thread that was started talking about it failing that is down to about #15 or #16 now on the page. That will be it for this year and with the vote the way it went let's hope it's gone for quite a while! I don't think anyone has a problem with people that can or wants to pay the extra money like mulecreek is talking about him doing the way it is presently set up at 40%. Rather, it would have been the fact that it would have forced a lot of people that can't afford to or won't pay that higher fee if the Bill had been passed and gone to 60% of the tags being a lot higher priced.
 

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