Not looking good for Klamath River

[eelgrass]

Here we go again.

 

[sageadvice]

Not looking good at all!!

My grandparents spent at least a couple weeks, their Fall vacation every year, fishing Salmon near the mouth of the Klamath. Grandpa loved it there!

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"

 

[264mag]

I'm sure before the dam their were times the fish died but seems like if the river was running low because of a drought the fish would wait in the ocean till things changed,just my thought.

 

[huntindad4]

IMO the urge to spawn would outweigh any instinct to wait in the ocean for more water in a drought year. The fish may run later based on water but they would still run and the result would probably be bad.

The Klamath is a HUGE river system and fish runs are timed based on the ope that there will be water upriver for spawning a couple months later. For example fish entering the mouth in the spring are bound for the upper reaches of some of the major tributaries miles upriver where they won't spawn until the fall which is why they are loaded with fat and taste so good when fresh from the ocean.

My fear is the removal of the dams may do more harm than good, the fish have adapted their runs to current water levels and releases and may do so after the removal but we don't know the answer to that. In low water years now they release water from the dams, after their removal we won't have that option.

My other fear for the removal of the dams is the amount of silt in the lakes above the dams has to be astronomical, that silt will be washed down the river system or at least a large portion will, what effect will that have on the river and it's habitat and ecosystem?

I have seen cases where in trying to do good by putting the environment back to what it was before man encroached we made things worse and I worry this will be another case of that. Such as years ago Oregon went into river systems and spent millions removing all of the logs and root wads to amend the supposed negative toll of logging on streams only to several years later spend millions to go back and put them back in to enhance the habitat because it was found (rather obvious to people with common sense rather than school smarts) to be better.

Bill

People who work for a living are quickly being
overwhelmed by people who vote for a living.

 

[264mag]

Thank's for that info.

 

[huntindad4]

You're welcome.

That's only part of the info for sure and much of it is my opinion so take it for what it's worth.

Bill

People who work for a living are quickly being
overwhelmed by people who vote for a living.

 

[sageadvice]

Not sure how clear this will turn out...

Joey

"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"

 

[huntindad4]

Thanks Joey, I was just looking at that map a bit ago, it sure puts into perspective how much ground drains into the Klamath! And it only shows major tributaries!

The economic and political logistics of the dam removal are immense and the environmental impact is impossible to know.

Bill

People who work for a living are quickly being
overwhelmed by people who vote for a living.

 

[sageadvice]

"I was just looking at that map a bit ago, it sure puts into perspective how much ground drains into the Klamath! And it only shows major tributaries!"

I knew it was a big area but i never knew that it was THAT big of a area! You're welcome, wish the map was clearer.

I hunted C-1, East of I-5, near the Cali-Oregon border as a guest of our Manny maybe 5 years ago now, went and watched the Salmon stack up at Iron Gate Dam. They weren't the big fish i expected but there were thousands of them. Downstream a bit, I also pulled over and looked down on several boats that were anchored up, they were catching salmon one after another. Pretty cool at the time!!

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"

 

[eelgrass]

Yes, it's a balancing act at this point. The demands of the farmer vs the needs of the salmon. It's been working pretty good for a long time, but now with the drought it becomes even more critical.

My immediate short term thought is to release the water. Farmers can go to the nursery and buy more plants next year, but how many times can you kill a river and expect it to recover? It doesn't just kill the salmon, and the entire drainage system suffers, and a river is much more than just water.

As far as releasing all that pent up silt into the river, I suspect there is a plan for that? I sure would hope so anyway.

No good simple answer I'm afraid.

Eel

 

[HunterHarry]

That really sucks Eel.
I'd been hearing really good reports prior to this.
My bread & butter salmon rivers, the Feather and Sacramento are really sucking right now due to drought related low flows, there are just no fish coming up right now when normally we would have been hammering then since about the second week in July.
We took a trip a couple of weeks ago and fished hard for 8 hours and got absolutely nothing, nothing rolling, no hits, no runs no errors.
This is just about the worst salmon year I can remember.
I'll try again later in the year and keep my ear to the ground, but things are bad all over....real bad.

 

[ZIGGER]

.....the Yurok need to step into the 21 century and buy their food at vons like the rest of us......

that video was just chock full of facts....lol

 

[Mallards_Only]

>Yes, it's a balancing act at
>this point. The demands of
>the farmer vs the needs
>of the salmon. It's been
>working pretty good for a
>long time, but now with
>the drought it becomes even
>more critical.
>
>My immediate short term thought is
>to release the water. Farmers
>can go to the nursery
>and buy more plants next
>year, but how many times
>can you kill a river
>and expect it to recover?
>It doesn't just kill the
>salmon, and the entire drainage
>system suffers, and a river
>is much more than just
>water.
>
>As far as releasing all that
>pent up silt into the
>river, I suspect there is
>a plan for that? I
>sure would hope so anyway.
>
>
>No good simple answer I'm afraid.
>
>
>Eel
Unfortunately, it's not as simple and inexpensive as going to the nursery and buying new plants. I assume you're talking about trees because those are the only ones that a farmer would get from a nursery. Do you have any idea how much it costs to plant a tree and cultivate it for 4-5 yrs until it reaches production? Once it starts producing a crop, it takes 2-3 yrs before the farmer has recouped his cultivation costs and is making a profit on the orchard. If one allows an orchard to die, not only does he stand to lose thousands of dollars per acre but he also loses about 10 yrs of production by the time he removes the orchard, treats for nematodes, orders new trees, plants them and gets them to production. Depending on the age of the trees that die, it may even take longer than that to reach a similar production yield.
It's not as simple as just fallowing row crop or rice ground for a year until it rains again.

 

[eelgrass]

Mallards, point well taken and I understand. I guess that's why they are not releasing the water. At least replanting is an option. Restoring a run of fish also takes many years, and there is no guarantee.

Zigger, that video has emotion as it's main appeal, but 60-80,000 dead fish was a fact.

Eel

 

[NECALI]

It all comes down to this, is there as much water going into the river above the dams as what's coming out? I know on the Sacramento river Shasta dam has made that river run throughout the summer a whole lot colder and with more water than it ever did before the dam. Just try swimming in it around Woodson bridge or higher up. It's freezing cold and will make you go numb in a matter of seconds. My Dad says before the dam was built it used to get so low in that area you could walk across it and it felt like bath water. Not now. Like was said before maybe the fish have adapted to it and if they are to take some of these dams out it would cause more harm than good.

 

[bullskin]

That's an interesting point, NECALI. Before the dams, the Sac used to dry to a trickle in the summer. So, what else besides low water might account for the lack of fish today?

 

[DeerHunter1953]

I hope this doesn't end up like before, the amount of fish and the size of them is just getting back to what is was or at least close to it. The Klamath fish seem to be fatter and more red than the Sacramento fish maybe because of the food they eat but either way another die off would be devastating to the people up North who depend on these fish for their living.

Who knows maybe another El Nino will come and save us again, one can only hope.

 

[NECALI]

I kind of think our Salmon problem lies more in the ocean than in the rivers. The problem is the enviro's want to blame it all on the dams. A few years ago a F@G biologist was in Redding talking about it and she said they have done studies and have found there is a virus that has been killing lots of salmon in the ocean. You sure don't here about things like that in the mainstream media though. The enviro's want to have their cake and eat it too. They don't like the so called polution from coal or natural gas power plants and here we have the most effient, clean power we could ever get from the hydo-electric power. But they don't want that either. They want all the dams taken out. They cry for wind generated power but now are crying that the windmills are killing birds, and the minerals used to make the generators is toxic and what in the world are we going to do when they have run their coarse. Same thing as get rid of the deer and elk on Santa Rosa isalnd because they're not native, but don't you dare touch the wild horses. they very two faced about it all.

 

[eelgrass]

As of 8-22-2014

http://lostcoastoutpost.com/2014/aug/22/victory-feds-revise-trinity-river-water-delivery-s/

[UPDATING] Feds to Revise Trinity River Water Delivery Schedule This Morning

WASHINGTON??Congressman Jared Huffman (D-San Rafael) released the following statement after the U.S. Bureau of Reclamation announced that it will release water to protect Trinity River salmon:

?I applaud the Bureau?s decision to finally release water to salmon struggling in the Klamath and Trinity rivers. While it is abundantly clear that the Bureau?s water management plans have been consistently shortsighted and that the irresponsible excessive diversion of water to the Sacramento River forced us into this difficult situation, the decision announced today indicates that the Bureau at least kept listening to the growing evidence of a looming disaster for salmon and is now doing the right thing.

?I appreciate the Bureau?s and the U.S. Interior Secretary?s willingness to listen to the Yurok, Hoopa and Karuk tribes and to demands from my office, and to change course from their original decision which would have needlessly imperiled vital salmon stocks in one of the driest years on record. I especially appreciate the tribes? tenacity in demanding protection for these important public resources, and to the other deeply committed stakeholders who have spoken up on this issue.

?There is still a lot of work to do to get the Bureau on track to making responsible long-term plans for using one of our critical resources in a way that protects salmon and the people that depend on them while appropriately balancing the need for food production. I will apply consistent pressure on the agency to move in that direction, and I will stand with federal agencies when they do the right thing ? because we know that litigious and powerful San Joaquin Valley interests will at every turn file legal challenges against salmon protection as they seek to divert more of our north coast water.?

In July, Huffman sent a letter calling on the Bureau to immediately address the increasingly hazardous conditions for salmon and steelhead trout in the Klamath and Trinity River watersheds during this drought year. Huffman reiterated the urgency of the appeal in August.

 

[cowboy57]

That's sad to see I think man has made his foot print on the land with the dams and man made lakes is that we can't go back Am way out of my league here with this but more dams up stream for holding more cold water seams to be the answer. we are going through this in the Central Valley by trying to reintroduce Salmon here in the San Joaquin river all it's doing is wasting water going out to the sea and the Farmers need this water they are trucking these dam fish from the dam to the Delta makes a lot of since right We want more water storage above the San Joaquin river that way it holds more water to be released in times like this it seems simple to me but we can't go back now. the evoiors. don't want us to log or build dams for the better of life just a thought tony