Non-typical?

smitty

smitty

Very Active Member
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I've been checking their website to see what they killed this past fall. They haven't updated anything yet.

Does anyone know how they did? I ran into a few of their guides a couple weekends in a row, they mentioned they hadn't done real well up to that point. Wondering if they knocked some toads down later on ?
 
Not sure, but I don't think they took any huge bucks last fall just like most didn't. The weather started out terrible for the first few days of the season with the snow, rain, and fog at the various elevations that made glassing difficult, if not impossible. Then the weather went right back to down right hot with temps in the 80s well into October making animal movement very slow during hunting hours.
 
>Boy wasn't that the truth 5pp
>down the drain last Oct
>for sure.
>
>Brian
>http://i44.tinypic.com/es7x8z.jpg[/IMG]


Yep Brian, John and I were very happy with the two nice bucks we took in such a short time considering what the weather was out there last season.
 
I saw pictures during season of one buck they claimed to be around 38" wide and somewhere around 205". Definitely a monster in my book. I also read another article on some other forum that showed pics of a 190ish buck. Great deer too. Still waiting to confirm when they post pictures on their site. It will be interesting to see what happens if the flying rules come into effect in the future. They'll still find and kill big deer, but it may level things out a bit.
 
>Not sure, but I don't think
>they took any huge bucks
>last fall just like most
>didn't. The weather started
>out terrible for the first
>few days of the season
>with the snow, rain, and
>fog at the various elevations
>that made glassing difficult, if
>not impossible. Then the
>weather went right back to
>down right hot with temps
>in the 80s well into
>October making animal movement very
>slow during hunting hours.

I know a bunch of guys who didn't do nearly as well as you guys did.
I wasn't there but I heard the same weather reports from other hunters and it sounded pretty tough!
Oh well, Mother Nature always wins.
Zeke
 
I hunted with them in the last week of the season , talk about a major disappointment my hunt ended on the mourning of the second day after both my guide and I were ejected from both our horses in the dark on a steep slope after my guides horse spooked and my horse followed suit ! I burned my 5 points and probably won't be able to draw again ! By far the most disappointing hunt I've been on !
 
That is really too bad and I sympathize with you but that happens. I own a string and it is a very dangerous affair. Even the best horse is still a horse. Why was The trip over? Were you too injured to hunt?


Mike Henne
 
Now that would really suck, but at least you're here to write about it! Please fill us in on the extent of injuries that ended the hunt due to that horse episode.
 
Mike , I fully understand the liability of dealing with stock , I grew up in idaho and on the back of a Shetland pony pushing cattle on our national forest lease and moved up the ranks over the years to riding a lot of very fine finished horses up to owning my own string of fine ride , drive , and pack mules and due to many factors ( friends getting married , wife doesn't want to ride ect ! ) I sold my pack srtring and am primarily a back pack hunter due to ease of use ! I was injured along the way and understand the hazards of being around stock ! This outfitt that I hunted with was haphazard at best ! When you tie your saddle fender with bailing twine no less than 5-6 times the first day to hold your stirrup you have got to wonder WTF ? The bs they advertised on this hunt really was to good to be true from accommodations to quality experienced guides and great equipment ! Example ; the first mourning at our glassing spot I set up and mounted my 15x56 's on my tripod and began to glass at first light , my first year guide pulled out his affordable optic and looked at me and asked if I really liked glassing from a tripod ? WTF ? I knew right then and there the wool had been pulled over my eyes ! It went down hill from there ! We were hunting a few hundred yards from private property bordering usfs waiting for the deer to come to us , in the process we witnessed another horse hunter come up to us and talk with my guide he went right to the border of the private and hunted until out of sight we heard a couple of gun shots about 45 mins after our encounter with him he rode back our way and my guide met him out of ear shot from me and told him that private land hunters had been doing the shooting ! Whatever ! Well we stuck it out from our vantage and glassed all day some time around mid day I glassed a good deer coming towards the usfs from the private he never made it ,from the first sighting of the deer I knew something was wrong so we both watched him through my spotting scope and watched him try to stand and fall over the next hour ! He was abviosely gut shot and looked as though he finally went down for good still inside private land about an hour or so later ! Great beginning to ones high country mule deer hunt ! The rest of the day was uneventfull with a lot of deer spotted the first day and high hopes for the next day ! Well long story short the next morning in the dark 10 mins riding from the highway we had our rodeo we were both thrown and I thought I had shattered my hip socket or somewhere about that area hurt like hell I was asked If I would like to continue hunting and responded no as I couldn't even get back on the horse ! I limped back to the truck and loaded the stock that luckily didn't run to far ,and headed back to camp to reassess upon our airival Rob Wiley met us and asked what happened and we explained the situation he responded by building a fire for the client tent and telling me ( That Sucks ) I spent that afternoon doped up on ibuprofen and hoping for the best the next morning ! We awoke the next morning and I was asked if I wanted to hunt I declined and all the guides and Rob left camp ! I was able to gather my stuff together a couple hours later and loaded up to possibly seek further medical attention and work my way home( there was no way I could even get into the saddle , let alone hunt !I still have pictures of a massive bruis that formed on my left hip from waistline to my knee black ,blue,and purple for weeks ! I still to this day have not heard a word from any one from NTO ! No call ,text e-mail ! Nothing ! One day 10 mins of hunting and $7000.00 later not even an attempt to see how their clients health was ! I'm not bitter I'm simply telling you my story of my NTO experience !
 
Sorry to hear your hunt went the way of the doodoo bird! I can't believe that the Wileys wouldn't at least send you their condolences or maybe even offer another hunt since you only got in one day. It was their stock that caused the problem and since you and the first year guide bit the dust it was obviously not your fault. I guess this is what happens when a outfit gets popular and they start expanding their business to run as many people through there as they can just for the money, rather than a good hunting experience.
 
Very sorry to hear about your bad piece of luck on your hunt with NonTypical Outfitters. We all know there are risks on a hunt such as this. I think it's very poor of Robb to not call and have some genuine concern for you one of his hunters. To me the message is he doesn't want to take any responsibility of what took place and based on you likely having signed a waiver of liability release he wouldn't have any responsibility. What you would hope is he would have some sympathy for you and see how you were doing and invite you to come back really without having to pay or offering you a reduced rate at the very least. I think it's poor business that no communication has been initiated by the outfitter.
 
I'm sorry to hear about your experience. Thankfully you are here to talk about it. It's things like this that give outfitters a bad name. It's the one industry that customer service is easily thrown out the window when they know the chance of you being a return customer is very small. Sounds like non typ has plenty of people knocking down their doors believing they can get their magazine buck through them.
 
That's really too bad. It does suck. Unfortunately, if someone is going to jump on the back of a horse, they need to know they could be hurt. You're not the first person to be hurt and had a hunt ruined by a horse. It's a gamble for sure. It could have been much worse, luckily not.
Sounds like a crappy experience. Was there anything NTO could have done to fix it?
I guess that can't really give you a deal on a future hunt as it could be 10 more years to draw that tag again.
What a kick in the butt.

I broke my freaking neck a week before the WY hunt opened last year. A few years ago I was kicked in the head the day before the opener by a horse. Out cold! Probably should've gone home, but......

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com on Facebook!
 
To me there is plenty that could be done to produce some goodwill out of what was a difficult situation. Let's not kid ourselves if the outfitter wanted to attempt to make this right he could easily group this hunter with a couple of his clients that have max points. So getting a license would not be the issue.

No doubt horses can be a wildcard. I own a few personally and have ridden other Outfitters horses. These things can and do happen.
 
There are always two sides to every story. If the story posted is true then the outfitter is in the wrong. The hunter should never have been left alone, even if he was not going hunting that morning. He paid for a guide and a guide should have stayed with him. Was a trip to the hospital offered? Did the hunter leave without notifying the outfitter? Hard to believe the outfitter never made contact after returning to camp and finding the client had left.

Signing a waiver of liability is not ironclad. If it were then the outfitter would have no need to carry liability insurance. If the services offered were substandard, such as poor quality tack or rank horses, then the outfitter can be held liable.

It would be good to hear the other side of the story.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-22-16 AT 03:51PM (MST)[p]Yes there are two sides to every story but if you got the story from them they would say the same thing I did not embellish one bit that is the way it happened every ounce of that story is the complete God honest truth and I'll and yes waivers were sighned just like ever other hunt I've been on with an outfitter and yes on the way back to camp after the accident the guide asked me if I wanted to go to outpatient clinic and I declined I have insurance but I know what a pain in the ass that can be when you go to the clinics out of state etc. also I wasn't sure what was going on for certain with my hip ! And also I did leave camp without notifying anyone because they were all out hunting and I knew deep down inside my hunt was completely over and I thought it might be a good idea to possibly seek medical attention after I got home ! If anyone doubts the credibility of the story they are more than welcome to p.m. me and I would talk to anyone and show them the pictures also ! no problem whatsoever ! Also yes being a horse and mule owner for several years I you know what quality tack is and the saddle that I was writing was completely worn out complete pile of ##### and as far as the horses go I don't really know all I knows that the guide said yes the day before his horse does get a little spooky once in a while ! I'm not telling this story to be vindictive I have moved on that's how I operate I have forgiven Rob for his behavior , not for his sake but for mine !
 
It sounds like what you're upset about is the fact that the guide had to jimmy rig his stirrup and he didn't use a tripod with binos??? I have to say, I've had to jimmy rig horse tack a few times and I would've asked you the same thing about using a tripod to glass. And I can assure you, I know how to hunt deer.

It's too bad you got thrown off the horse, and your hunt ended early, but as I read it, there's not a lot more the guide or outfitter could've done to fix your hunt. Even if the guide had used a tripod, expensive optics and had a brand new saddle, I can't see that your hunt would've been too much different. You'd have probably still been thrown off and hurt.

I think you should've called Rob and asked if you could get a rain check on the hunt, or even a nice discount in the future. I don't know the dude, but maybe he would've worked with you...???
I agree he should've checked on you and made sure you made it home ok. That's just good customer service, but you both have a phone.

Call him up.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
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LAST EDITED ON Feb-22-16 AT 06:35PM (MST)[p]>It sounds like what you're upset
>about is the fact that
>the guide had to jimmy
>rig his stirrup and he
>didn't use a tripod with
>binos???


I guess I might be one of the few who takes extra straps & cinch, hole punch, rivets and the like on horseback hunts? Come on, this outfitter should have extra saddles not to mention the ability to fix a saddle without using twine. That's no class right there, for sure. They were hunting out of a rig for gosh sakes!

The tripod & binos? After hunting Arizona coues deer, it's by far the best way to catch every detail, but I wouldn't judge the guide by that unless he were to criticize the use of one.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-22-16 AT 08:24PM (MST)[p]Listen , FOUNDER ,! You are not hearing what I'm saying I'm not upset about anything in regards to the hunt , I'm replying to a guy asking if anyone hunted with them and what they harvested ? On the web site they say they use the highest quality gear and the most expireinced guided ect ! I found that not to be true for my hunt ! Simple enough ! I am not looking to get anything out of telling anyone this story ! And as for asking for a discounted hunt for the future why the ##### would I want to hunt with an incompetent safety jeopardizing outfitter again ??????!!!!!! Your telling me I should be calling him ! NO ! I left the ball in his court to respond to the situation at his discretion ! And how he did speaks volumes about his integrity ! As I stated earlier I'm over it I've moved on I'm simply telling my story and everyone can draw their own conclusion from there ! And my guide was not the one jerry rigging his saddle it was mine I don't know if you have much horse experience but when that happens and you have weight on that side you are Prone to slipping off for falling off that side of your saddle!if your stirrup does not hold you ,that happened on multiple occasions! if I put some one on a saddle like that I would have been embarrassed ! Hence the call out of shitty equipment ! And as far as the mounting of the binocs on tripods , sorry that you haven't figured that out when I did 20 years ago my long time guide and outfitter buddie of mine recommended it and once I did while we were glassing the first time I was looking through my mounted binocs I made the comment to my buddy (Holy cow I wonder what I've been missing) he responded simply by saying ALOT !!!!! That one will make you think ! Long story short quit sticking up for the outfitter when you don't know both sides of the story if you want why don't you call the ########### !!!!!!!! And you can PM me and I'll give you my # and we can talk , feel free ! Ps I'm super glad you rreassured me that you know how to hunt mule deer ! If your so god damn good at it maybe you should become an outfitter an employ all your techniques and make a ##### killing !
 
Calm down Doug! You can disagree with someone, even the site owner, but there is no reason or need to use vulgar language like that and I would suggest you do an edit before your allotted time runs out. I'm with you 100% if everything you have stated is correct and I have no reason to believe it's not since you're not gaining a thing by posting about your hunt. Robb charges a lot for a hunt because he's supposed to be a cut above the rest and if he advertises good equipment, accommodations, and experienced guides than by golly he should provide such. I can certainly see how one could get thrown because I was on horseback in Region G this year with another outfitter and having the best equipment is a necessity to decrease an accident like you experienced. With a stirrup in the terrible condition you stated yours was I can see how it would be hard to stay on a horse properly in the uneven terrain you're in all the time in G and if a horse went bonkers that would really compound trying to stay on it. The big thing I see here is that you say no attempt has been made by Robb to contact you to see if you are even alive for Pete's sake. I have to disagree with Founder about telling you to call Robb. I know what I'd be calling him if that was me out $7K and he'd either be making good or possibly be in court fighting a civil case brought by yourself. That publicity certainly wouldn't do his business any good.
 
Dang!!! A bit fired up there huntemdown! Geeezzzz!

I just took a bit of offense when you start talking about how a person should use optics, and you imply they must not know what they're doing if they don't use a tripod with bino's.
Your words ... "my first year guide pulled out his affordable optic and looked at me and asked if I really liked glassing from a tripod ? WTF ? I knew right then and there the wool had been pulled over my eyes !"

I really didn't mean to get you all fired up. I didn't think my post was that harsh. You brought it up and told the story, and it didn't sound like you were over it. In addition to responding to the comment that offended me, I was just trying to help. Heck, if you don't want to go back, that's great with me and fantastic for NTO. Whatever!

As for not knowing the whole story, in the earlier post you said what you posted was the whole story.
Your words ... "story from them they would say the same thing I did not embellish one bit that is the way it happened every ounce of that story is the complete God honest truth"

I apologize for getting your feathers all ruffled. One post says you told the whole story, then the next says we don't know the whole story. Who knows?!?! I no longer care. Sorry for trying to lend some help, not sorry for the rest.

As for me needing to guide hunters to prove I know how to hunt deer, I don't need to. I kill them myself. No guide either. Not all the time, but I do have a few trophies. And I didn't even use a tripod to glass them up!!! I'm sure if I did, I'd have another 18 trophy bucks hanging. Maybe..........

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com on Facebook!
 
TOP GUN , FOUNER thanks for the debate if you would like to speake personally with me ,PM me and we will talk ! Best regards ! Doug
 
>TOP GUN , FOUNER thanks for
>the debate if you would
>like to speake personally with
>me ,PM me and we
>will talk ! Best regards
>! Doug


No need for trading any PMs with me, as I told you I'm 100% on your side with no reason to not believe exactly what you mentioned!
 
No need for PM's here either. I shared my opinion on your gripes about your hunt. That's all I needed to share.

PS - I don't think cuss words like "motherf....." are needed in a debate. Not sure how that helps, but I'd sure appreciate you not doing that on this site. Most people don't want to read that here. There's enough of that on the walls in bathroom stalls.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com on Facebook!
 
You don't leave an injured client alone at camp. Period. If he paid $7,000 then he was 1x1 guided. The guide should have stayed. If the outfitter shows back up at camp and the injured hunter is gone then the outfitter has the responsibility to contact the hunter to make sure he is ok.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-23-16 AT 09:21AM (MST)[p]>You don't leave an injured client
>alone at camp. Period.
> If he paid $7,000
>then he was 1x1 guided.
> The guide should have
>stayed. If the outfitter
>shows back up at camp
>and the injured hunter is
>gone then the outfitter has
>the responsibility to contact the
>hunter to make sure he
>is ok.


That would also be my thoughts on the incident. He obviously had a 1x1 hunt or there would have been another hunter with him the first day and the second morning when the accident happened. Just leaving him in camp alone when he knew the guy was hurt so bad he couldn't hunt on an expensive trip like that sure doesn't say much for the operation. This isn't the first negative post I've read about Robb. I can't remember what site it was on, but a guy posted about a miserable experience he had on an elk hunt with Robb within the last several years and I believe it also involved poor equipment and a guide that had never been in the area and didn't know an elk from a mulie! A lot of people forget the negatives if they take a big animal with an outfit and Robb is known to get it done. I also believe it's no secret that he uses a plane to locate a lot of the big bucks that they then target during the season.
 
Me being a greenhorn I'd be more pissed about a untrained horse than anything. Second would be a newbe guide.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-23-16 AT 10:46AM (MST)[p]I can relate to a lot of this as I was in the same area this past year on a horseback hunt with a different guide/outfitter than the one discussed in this thread.

I used a tripod, my guide did not. How did we ever end up shooting a 180" buck without the guide using a tripod for his bino's? Sheesh.... I was using a tripod and my 18 year old guide wasn't and he spotted deer like his life depended on it.

My experience was completely different however. My guide was 18 and it was his first year guiding. But he was the younger brother of the outfitter and it was obvious quick that it wasn't his first time in the area. At first I thought I got the short end of the stick getting him as a guide. After the experience I had, I'm embarrassed to say I even had those thoughts. He was a bad a and knew that country, knew where the deer were, and we killed a great buck. Plus he was super enjoyable to hunt with and really created a low key atmosphere to hunt in. It was the best guided hunt I've been on actually - from the guide, outfitter, camp, cook, staff. I never met personally the outfitter as he was in a different camp, but his presence was known and you could tell he set the tone for that camp.

I can say that, had I been injured on the horse, I know without a doubt I'd been taken care of before my guide left to guide someone else. As would all the other guides - it was just that type attitude in camp.
 
Non-typical hires new guides every single year...There is a reason. Im not going to go into details of what i know via personal acquaintances, but he has a few long time guys that know everything and usually get the good repeat clients, but he is always having to scrounge for new guides because from what i gather, does not treat them to well in regards to a lot of aspects. He does pay top dollar which is why he can fill those spots every year, but not many guides stay with him for multiple seasons. . He is also not to well liked among other outfitters due to other reasons on their own. . He kills big deer, yes. But he also takes a PILE of hunters every fall now that his name has grown so well, and i guarantee you there are more going home without a wall hanger than with. . SO a lot of the story above doesnt really surprise me about his actions, but at the same time, coming from someone that spent nearly a decade guiding backcountry horseback hunts...SH** happens in the backcountry. Ive seen clients bucked off..horses roll down a mountain..etc..etc.. That is to bad you were hurt for sure, and unfortunate you got stuck with one of his "new" guides that probably didnt know the area well at all and just goes where robb told him too. I do think the fact Robb made zero attempts to talk with you just proves a lot of what i know about him via other sources. Any good reputable outfitter would have made an attempt to salvage your hunt, or offer you some sort of discount on a future one, pretty common when bad things like a horse wreck happen.
But i dont think you should have judged the hunt just because the Blevins buckle fell off and bailing twine was used (IT HAPPENS A LOT), and the fact your guide asked you about using a tripod. Ive been around numerous clients that seem to know more than the guide from day 1, and they are the ones who never are satisfied with a hunt no matter what happens. Not saying you are this type, but just saying, judging little things like that on a guided hunt is going to lead to a negative attitude for a client, no matter what the end result could have been.
 
Non-typical hasn't posted photos of their 2016 season but they have posted comments about it.

Some things that seem apparent about Non-typical:

They kill a lot of big bucks.

They take a lot of hunters and everyone doesn't kill a big buck.

There is a high demand for their hunts, they are already booked for 2016 and 2017.

Their hunts are expensive relative to other outfitters in the area. $7,495 for a 1 on 1 hunt. There are a lot of places you can hunt good mule deer for that kind of money, Alberta, Colorado Eastern plains, etc.

Is their hunts worth the price and wait to go with them. I don't really know, everyone has to make their own decision.
 
I believe Non typical Outfitters is very reputable and Robb does a great job overall. The above scenario is an example of how there are many things that are out of even the best Outfitters control. I jumped to a conclusion and apologize for my above comments. I meant no badwill. I don't have any experience hunting with NonTypical Outfitters. They are probably one of the best destinations right now in the mountain country for mule deer.

As clients and Outfitters we all just have to try and keep both points of view in perspective.
 
Can't imagine how difficult it would be to be a guide/outfitter and have to spend the entire fall suffering with so many crybabies.
 
The way this was improperly handled AFTER the accident is what we're talking about. For Robb to leave the guy in camp knowing he's in pain and can't even hunt is ridiculous when he paid for a 1X1 hunt. The guide should have stayed in camp, no ifs, ands, or buts! Then to find the hunter gone when they get back and not even phone the guy to see if he's still alive is unconscionable IMHO. We paid nothing like Robb is charging for his hunts, hunted in the same general area where most of his mulie hunts are done, and killed two good bucks in 4 days that I'd bet will be better than 75% or more of the deer his hunters killed. Our deer were also not spotted with an airplane like Robb is known for to find big deer. Sure being an outfitter is a pain because many expect to kill a B&C animal or the hunt sucked, but you can also have a lousy hunt and happen to kill a good animal and the guy will forget about the former and rave how great a guy is. Maybe some should ask for a review of their hunt by everyone that went with Robb last year and see what the consensus of his operation is.
 
huntemdown didn't post to this thread until February 20. That would be some 4-5 months after his hunt. The fact that Robb Wiley had not contacted him since the incident speaks volumes about that outfitter. You can't operate like that for long, even if your services are in high demand. One or two claims against your liability insurance as an outfitter will make it tough for you to continue to operate even if the claims are never paid. Insurance carriers are not dumb. A signed waiver or a release before a hunt, does not legally exonerate an outfitter from negligence on his or his agent's part. The fact that the outfitter's equipment(saddles and tack) were worn out, or in bad need of repair or replacement, will not turn out well for an outfitter arguing that the client assumed that risk by signing a waiver in advance. On the other hand, if you know that the equipment is bad and say nothing, it could be claimed that you assumed that risk by doing or saying nothing about it.

I had to laugh when the client became upset that the guide didn't use a tripod or special optics. You hire a guide because you are unfamiliar with an area. You hire a guide who knows where the big bucks hang out. That is what a guide is for. Some hunters don't know the difference between a 160" mule deer and a 190" mule deer. I wonder how many B&C bucks have been turned down by hunters who really don't know what they are looking at? Every guide who is guiding trophy mule deer hunters must be able to field judge a buck with decent glass within a minute or two of having spotted the buck. That is especially true in Region G&H. There are so many hunters, the deer don't spend a lot of time after the opener walking around in the open. Many of the guides I know, would prefer that the client not bring anything more than a set of binoculars. It can be a real problem when you are guiding to have a client study an animal for long periods of time. To date, my son has lost the opportunity to take at least three trophy mule deer bucks because he wouldn't believe me when I told him to shoot. In each incident, he wasted precious time trying to do his own field judging. I once had someone pull out his binoculars to look at a 170" buck that we jumped at less than 50 yards. He could of shot it, but instead watched it walk away through his binoculars. I always ask the same question of hunters who do this. Are we hunting or are we ....ing off, I just need to know?

I guided hunters in Montana for a few years after retiring from the practice of law. The guys who were looking for a little fun and a good time outdoors were the best. On the other hand, there were a few young guys who were all about the trophy size and not the experience. They were never satisfied and often pulled out when they didn't see what they wanted after a day or two of hunting. The whitetail hunters from the South were the worst. One hunter came to camp to kill a specific buck. The outfitter had some contacts with a rancher who had a 30" 4x4 muley buck on his property chasing does. The rancher wanted a couple of grand to allow someone to shoot it. The hunter was obsessed with the size of the animal and not the experience. He collected his trophy and was gone in two days.

I have posted on MM many times about my experiences with guides and outfitters. The bad outweigh the good in my experience. The outfitters have a short season to maximize their profits. Many will sell out the resource to make money or just don't know how to say no. The ones I prefer, usually have a small operation where the outfitter is often the guide. They usually have good equipment and stock and don't spend all their time running around from camp to camp putting out fires. They want their clients to have a great hunt.

just sayin...mh
 
I was just washing dishes thinking about this thread and the complaints the poster in this thread had about the hunt. The four complaints we heard were;

1 - Guide has inexpensive optics
2 - Guide didn't use tripod with binoculars
3 - Saddle had problems
4 - Client was left at camp after falling off horse


For issues 1 & 2, the client should have asked when he booked if his guide would have expensive optics or not, AND if the guide used a tripod to glass with bino's. It's a small percentage of guides who use tripods with bino's, so that should never be something the client should have "assumed". As for expensive bino's, I think it's silly, but if that's what seperates a guide who knows what he's doing from one that don't in this client's eyes, then OK. But he should have asked before booking the hunt.

Issue 3. Sure, maybe the equipment could have been looked over more closely before putting it on the horse. Maybe it was fine when put on the horse. Who knows? But I've hunted enough to know that horse tack does fail and it's part of the deal. None of us saw the saddle, and the client obviously wasn't too concerned about it when he jumped up on it. Certainly not something that should "ruin the hunt", or even result in horribly negative review online.

Issue 4. Client says he was left at camp, and that is what many on the thread have been critical of. The client says Robb met them at camp that morning when they returned, so Robb was concerned. The client at that point obviously didn't think he was too hurt, or he would have asked to be taken to a hospital. Now, some may think the guide should sit at camp with the client, but I think that is silly, but we can agree to disagree on that (remember, client didn't think it was bad enough to go to hospital and it was a bruise on hip. No blood spewing out). And on a side note, often times there's a camp cook in camp. Someone does the cooking! Was that person there at the camp??? Or another guide? Anyone? That was not mentioned in story.
On day 3 they asked client if he wanted to hunt and he said no. He ended the story with us there, but it wouldn't surprise me one bit if he had told them when he said no, that he was planning on leaving. So, if that's the case and the client doesn't think his injury is bad enough for hospital or clinic, why would the guide sit in camp?

I have a hard time with blaming the guide and outfitter as they have been in this thread. We're talking about a bruise, and a client that didn't think it was bad enough to even run to a clinic and get some powerful pain killers. We're talking about a small issue with a saddle, and we're talking about issue 1 & 2. Those are simply silly.

I don't want to make light of the clients injury or his dissatisfaction with his experience, I'm just sharing my view on this. I had to voice my thoughts because I hate to see a business (any business) get a bad rap when maybe they don't deserve it. At least to the huge extent as this.

So there you go. Whatcha' got to say?


Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com on Facebook!
 
I'll say I disagree with about 95% of what you just posted. Robb charged $7500 for a hunt with a guide that was said to be inexperienced and brand knew to the area, got a guy hurt by possibly having lousy stock, lousy equipment, and no concern up to this time for a guy to even see how he's doing! The guy said he had a terrible bruise on one entire hip/leg, not just a bruise as you put it. Paying that much money IMHO you shouldn't have to ask some of the questions you mentioned like glass used when you're on an expensive trophy hunt. Our guide in G dang sure had a lengthy bipod for his binos and I ended up shooting off of it because getting lower would not have allowed me to see the buck I shot. That's all I have to say, but when you pay that much for a 1X1 hunt that guide better be with you whether you're able to hunt or not in case something comes up and everything else should be top notch and not tied together with twine! The more I read on various websites it appears that Robb is running hunters through his camp like sheep and just relying on his past reputation that he takes some big bucks to keep the outfit going. JMO
 
TOPGUN - So if you were to find out that your guide at some point in the past had a horse wreck, or saddle malfunction, or hunted without that bipod you speak of, or employed a guide using "average" optics, would you jump on the bandwagon here on the site and talk about what a poor service he provided?
What if he left a sick or slightly injured hunter in camp with other guides while he helped another client one morning? Would that cause you to want to jump on the bandwagon and tear into his business?

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com on Facebook!
 
Arguing with Tristate is enough of a challenge without having to answer what I consider now are questions similar to what he comes up with to try and keep a thread going. I'll bow out, but will say this isn't the first time on the net that I've heard negative things said about Robb's operation, as well as negative comments made by others while I was out in G this year on my hunt.
 
Optics and tripods aside, not following up on an injured client is poor business practice, and says a lot about a person in general.
 
Like previous posts have mentioned, there is always two sides to the story. I would like to share mine--the other side.

I am the "first year" guide that is mentioned. To be honest last year was my first year guiding for Non-Typical, though I have guided big game hunts since 2000. I have hundreds of people that I have had the pleasure of guiding and have taking many superb deer with happy clients that have become lifelong friends. I guided in Utah primarily until a move brought our family to the Wyoming area. I live on the winter range where most of the deer we hunt tend to winter. My first winter here I was super impressed with the amount and quality of old and weathered bucks. I could easily take a camera out and take pictures of over 100 bucks in one day, all which would be over 160 and many pushing the 200 boundary with a few well beyond that. I reached out to Non-Typical because I wanted to share my love of hunting and big bucks. I am well educated and guiding for me takes me away from better paying opportunities. I do not guide out of necessity, I want you to know that. Last fall was a very difficult weather year for trophy hunting. We struggled from low visibility on many of the hunts to hot and dry conditions that prevented animals for moving. That being said, I was able to connect with all of my clients on trophy deer, all extremely pleased, with the exception of the aforementioned. Some of those studs have circulated this site and other forums.

Yes, we were in an area that was about a mile away from private in one direction on our first day, but miles to hunt in front of us and behind us and in the other direction. We were there because we had scouted a buck that was pushing the 200 mark, a mark that was set by the client. We did not see him the first day but we did see a lot of deer and had the opportunity at a typical that was pushing 190. We passed. I had great respect for passing, it isn't many people that see such a deer and pass unless they truly understand trophy hunting and are content in the pursuit and the chance of going home empty. My client seemed to be that type of cool collected guy. He was my last deer client of the season and I really wanted to walk away with a 100% successful harvest rate. As an outfit, we are usually around 50% and that is due to hunters being picky and choosing to harvest only respectable old bucks. That is one thing hopefully people that book with us understand; we are a fair game chase, high country, and push to the limits outfit. For example, as this was my first year with Non-Typical I spent an extra month and a half away from my family living in the mountains on horseback and foot scouting for those "once in a lifetime" bucks. That is how I happened upon the buck we were after. He was a dandy by any standards. And I owed it to my clients, being new to the country, to know where deer were and how to access them safely. By all accounts, I thought the first day of the hunt went well. We saw lots of bucks, a few good ones, and many up-and-comings. I can't believe that by my "not using a tripod for my binoculars" pegged me as an inefficient and inept guide. I guess I will continue to be that way... I prefer my tripod with my spotting scope and binos around my neck. Just me. Speaking of my optics, they are high-end and effective. I have the top of the line Vortex scopes and binos. I know I could waste more money on some higher lines, but I personally think they are just as good from 3000 yards and in and I have had huge success with them. The client makes is sound like a had a $20 pair from Walmart... Sorry to ramble.

The day of the incident was the worst day of my outfitting career. The horse that I was riding was I horse I had been on all season. I love that horse, he is athletic and like a teddy bear. He did spook for some reason and quickly did a 180 turn. I was turned back watching to make sure the client was still close behind when it happened. As the horse quickly turned, with me being turned myself, I couldn't maintain my balance and I went down. I soon found out that the client horse did the same thing and he also was down. We took some time to regroup. I asked if he was well enough to continue hunting, he didn't know if he was. I eventually decided after a bit of trying to brush it off that we needed to go back to camp. He was sore and disappointed, as we all were. No one wants that. We tried to make him as comfortable as possible. I offered to drive him the doctors and he respectfully declined saying he would take some Ibuprofen and see what tomorrow brings. I checked on him that night, he still didn't know what the plans for the morning would bring. In the morning he confirmed that he was not going to make it, at least for the morning, and that he would sleep in and make a decision. I told him that was fine and said that I was going to go with with another guide and client and try to help put them on some deer for the first part of that morning and scout for the big boy we were looking for, but that I would be back before noon to check in on him and see what he wanted to do. I also let him know that we had people in camp watching after him and available at all times to help him. I would never have left him alone. I went up with the other guide, we got his client on a deer that we harvested and I spotted the buck that we were going after. I got back to camp just after 10 am, excited to know where the buck was and hopeful that my client was doing better so we could go after him.

I came back to find he had taken off, without any communication with the people at camp. It was disappointing to say the least. It isn't a situation I would wish upon my worst enemy, no one wants multiple years of anticipation of a hunt only to have it cut short. It was a lose-lose situation for both of us; he didn't have a full hunt, I wasn't compensated for time and investment in preparing. I invested my time, my heart into the season and preseason. I did everything I could to ensure a successful and safe hunt. There are things that can happen on a mountain that you can't control and you can only control how you react to them. Such is the example of the stir-up that kept popping out for some reason. On the mountain I was able to fix it with some paracord and there was no issues afterward. I also gave the option to switch the saddle out for my personal saddle, which was declined. Without the incident I am sure that the story would be far different and the opportunity to harvest may have been a reality...there are no guarantees on a fair game public land hunt. And another thing, we can not control the public, nor anticipate where they may show up, we try to communicate with them as much as possible to stay out of each other's ways, sometimes this works, sometimes it doesn't.

If you want to truly trophy hunt for wild mule deer and view some of God's greatest country with the potential 'chance' for a monster, we welcome you. If you want to shoot something that meets a certain score and has a higher chance of success, there are many fenced ranches down in mexico that would be a better fit.

Thanks.
 
SO now that the other side is out...Client left on his own, without saying anything to anyone in anger....Guide was NOT some 18 year old new guy...He was a well experienced guide who knows what dealing with "PICKY" clients can be like. I tried to think of more reasons in my original thoughts as to why the client was right, but in the back of my mind I had a feeling there was something more to the story. Glad the guide was able to pop on here and share his side. . For people who dont ride horses and hunt all fall...those little pieces of leather and metal called blevins buckles that hold your stirrups, they bend constantly especially for an outfitter who has to use saddles all the time. I think the guide did more than enough to prove a massive effort was made, and the horse wreck is just part of the game. Its unfortunate..yes...But i sure cant sit here and say ive never had my guide horse spook and cause a wreck in the dark.. it happens. We cant control a horses action we can only try to prevent or limit the extent of that action. I feel bad for the client, but I do side with the guide, in the fact I think this was a case of a picky client whose expectations werent going to be met no matter what happened unless he got his 200" buck on public land that he was expecting....
 
Thanks so much for your time and nice post from your end of it. That sheds somewhat of a different light on what happened and my gut feeling is that what you have posted is pretty accurate since it doesn't appear to disagree too much with what the hunter has posted. I guess that just leaves me with the one bad feeling as to why Robb couldn't at least have called the guy a day or even months later to see how he was after that disaster on the mountain that could have even been a lot worse. At least we now have your side of the situation, which sounds pretty close to what the client said. Thanks so much for filling us in from your perspective, as that IMHO means a lot.
 
I'm glad the guide got word of this thread and was able to share his side. This thread could have ended so easily like the others that TOPGUN has seen on the internet about what a poor job NTO did. Maybe some of those were really like this one. ???

Unfortunately, businesses often aren't given a chance to defend themselves because they don't even know a poor review exists, so their businesses are hurt because of a complaint posted on the internet that was worded in such a way that it was truthful, but didn't tell the whole story.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com on Facebook!
 
Well at least we know the truth is somewhere in between the two stories.

Helped a guide and client locate and harvest a buck AND find a 200 incher in the same morning? I don't know about that...

But it's possible.
 
Thanks for taking the time to respond. I still think the owner would want to follow up on something like that.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-25-16 AT 06:51PM (MST)[p]>I'm glad the guide got word
>of this thread and was
>able to share his side.
>This thread could have ended
>so easily like the others
>that TOPGUN has seen on
>the internet about what a
>poor job NTO did. Maybe
>some of those were really
>like this one. ???
>
>Unfortunately, businesses often aren't given a
>chance to defend themselves because
>they don't even know a
>poor review exists, so their
>businesses are hurt because of
>a complaint posted on the
>internet that was worded in
>such a way that it
>was truthful, but didn't tell
>the whole story.
>
>Brian Latturner
>MonsterMuleys.com
>LIKE MonsterMuleys.com on Facebook!


Could be and why I probably shouldn't have even posted on one of these "he said she said" threads because there are always two sides and then the actual story that you never hear! I'll, therefore, still stay with the statement that Robb should have called the guy since that hasn't been in dispute.
 
As I said in my first post, there are two sides to every story. The guides response is interesting, but it ain't the whole story either.

This quote was really out of touch. "It was a lose-lose situation for both of us; he didn't have a full hunt, I wasn't compensated for time and investment in preparing." The guide wasn't compensated? Didn't get paid? Doubt that. The hunter was the loser in that situation. He was down $8,000 and his chance to hunt.

Hard to believe the guide did all he said and was back to camp by 10am or that someone in camp didn't see the hunter loading up and leaving before 10am. Then no call to see how he was. Ain't the internet great.
 
I'm pretty sure NTO scouts from aircraft. I'd be extremely shocked if they don't.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com on Facebook!
 
Well the follow-up makes sense other than the not being compensated part. Sounds like the outfit was compensated to the tune of 8k for a hunt that lasted a matter of hours....sounds like pretty good compensation to me.
 
Back to camp by 10am after helping get another client a good buck and locating the 200" deer they were after? I call bull... Unless both the harvested deer and the 200" deer were right out of non typicals camp..... Even then It would be hard to believe.

Doing the math on time alone for riding up the mountain, locating a deer, stalking it, shooting it, hiking to the harvested buck for retrieval, back to the horses, and ride back to camp.... Oh and somewhere in there glassing up the 200" deer and watching him feed until he hits the bedding area.... All by 10.... Nope. Add trailering the horses somewhere in there and you've got even more time to add up.

And as far as flying, yes they do fly. Before and all through season. They spend a good amount of time on the ground too, but a lot of the big bucks they harvest are found from the air. With the new laws they won't be doing it legally. It will definitely be a game changer.... But a lot of the big bucks are still packing good headgear by the end of July. The new flying law would be more efficient in protecting the big boys if it wasn't allowed from July 1 on....

I personally think those bucks deserve more... Surviving all of the elements of nature and predators, making it to a mature age, and then having someone cheat by seeing them from an airplane in their safe haven, pattern them, and kill them. I guarantee the majority of those mature bucks wouldn't be found by ground scouting.

Everyone has their own opinion and ethics. To each their own. I personally want to be conservative with our mule deer. Being greedy can only last so long before our herds are gone. If you have the gumption to bust your ass in those hills and hunt, I 100% support that and would congratulate anyone that harvested a mature buck on a real hunt. Cheating with an airplane and harvesting one, well that doesn't impress me. ANYONE with time and money can accomplish that.
 
These types threads all seem to be about the same. A client is upset with an outfitter and throws the kitchen sink at them. He raises some points that are valid and some that are no big deal. Initially, everyone comes to the aggrieved party's defense. Later, the guide or outfitter posts their side of the story. The tide now shifts and many start to criticize the client.

The client was hurt by a situation outside of his control. He did not feel he could continue to hunt because of his injury. Sure, he might have handled it a little better by not leaving camp. Severe pain and disappointment can cause people not to think rationally.

A couple of things that bother me about the situation are still real simple. NTO, Robb Wiley and the guide walk away with this fellow's money for their meager efforts. They didn't earn it. Neither the guide or the outfitter have the common sense or courtesy to call this hunter to see how he is doing. That call should have been made within two weeks of the guy leaving camp. If they were counseled by a lawyer or a liability carrier, not to make contact, they need to can the lawyer and find another carrier. If they just thought ignoring the situation would make it go away, they aren't thinking straight. This type of thinking, often leads to expensive lawsuits.

When you read posts like this, it is no wonder outfitters have the reputation they do. One unhappy client will always do more damage to your business than 20 happy clients singing your praises. This is not a good situation, and I would encourage this outfitter to swallow his pride and do the right thing by reaching out to this client.

just sayin...mh
 
"I could easily take a camera out and take pictures of over 100 bucks in one day, all which would be over 160 and many pushing the 200 boundary with a few well beyond that."

If this is true I need to be putting in for G and at the least make a trip out to the Winter range.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-26-16 AT 09:55AM (MST)[p]>It seems he was talking about
>the year 2000, if that
>makes a difference.
>I assume it would!


He said he's been guiding numerous years in Utah until a recent move to Wyoming where he now lives on the winter range where those deer in Region G migrate to. This was his first year guiding for Robb and he can see those deer during the winter where he lives right now. I wouldn't be surprised if he's in the right spot during the winter to see a lot of big bucks because G is a big area that they move down out of after spending the summer and early fall up there compared to the much smaller winter range where they can be much more easily seen.
 
>Not trying to stir the pot
>more just saying that must
>be fun to watch.

If you want a good chance at a very nice buck and have the PPs to draw Region G this season, all I can say is DO IT!
 
I got it! He's been guiding since 2000 in Utah.lol
The first year guide comment from the hunter had me confused.

I am like you Mike! I shouldn't even reply to this stuff.

Either way, I could definitely see a pile of deer being on the winter ground. Probably deer no ones seen before.
 
TG,
I'm back up to 4 points and G is where I will probably use them in a couple years. I already have 3 hunts planned this year and 2 next year so I'm looking at 2018.
 
>TG,
>I'm back up to 4 points
>and G is where I
>will probably use them in
>a couple years. I already
>have 3 hunts planned this
>year and 2 next year
>so I'm looking at 2018.


If you're saying you have 4PPs for this years draw and will buy one next year, that means you'll only have 5 for 2018. Even if you haven't bought you PP this year yet that would mean you'll have 6PPs for 2018. You'll probably need to save some cash to apply for the Special Draw the way PP creep is going and then that might not be a 100% draw, but who knows. Good luck on this years hunts you have planned!
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-18-16 AT 08:38PM (MST)[p]I don't like guided hunts I would rather shoot a smaller animal DIY than a larger animal guided. I went to Alaska and Canada for sheep so as you know a guide is required. I Went with small mom and pop outfits and both were highly regarded. I purposely stayed away from horse outfitters as I have no experience with horses and wanted to reduce the potential for a bad outcome. the outfitter in Canada is arguably as good as any one operating there. The hunt in Alaska went without a hitch (no pun intended). I don't have a big ego when it comes to hunting so my attitude for both of these hunts was to show up in shape, be able to shoot, listen to my guide, have a blast, and keep my mouth shut. I feel like I delivered on all of these and in the end we (yes the animal on a guided hunt belongs to the hunter and guide) killed an animal the Canadian outfitter was livid we killed and I don't blame him. I had seen a lot of videos from his concession filmed by one of his guides and I just did not think it was my place to question his guide. When my guide said "that is the ram -------- sent us for" I didn't hesitate and killed it. Being a reputable outfitter he made good on another species but essentially I came out of Canada with arguably the smallest sheep killed in 2011. I have ultimate respect for the outfitter and have not told this story on any internet medium to date as I still had a fabulous time and don't think the outfitter deserves a black eye. on guided hunts a person should do as much research as possible and when you do commit realize anything can happen and be prepared for it. so much is out of the control of the client. This lack of control is precisely the reason I don't like guided hunts. On my DIY hunts if things go awry the only one to blame is myself and I like that. We shot a great ram (there is not one picture of that ram without the guide also in the picture) in Alaska and a midget in Canada. I would not trade those sheep hunts for anything and know I can never do it again. I am fortunate to have hunted with some of the best. Guided hunts are a crap shoot even going with the best, mine worked out well but not ideal and I am totally fine with it. Sadly there are a lot of less fortunate hunters out there than me.


huntemdown
Would you have been happy with anything less than 200 inch deer? If not, you put yourself in the best unit in Wy with one of the best outfitters in the area. You did a lot correctly. I think you just had bad luck that sometimes happens.


Good luck to everyone in 2016!
 

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