Non-resident opinion of Wyo's Pref Pt system (elk/deer/lope)

T

Teepee

Active Member
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I'm a resident, but am curious what the non-resident's opinion of Wyoming's pref point system (elk/deer/antelope) is.

Like it? Hate it? Drop it? Change it? And why?

Does anyone remember how Wyo got a non-resident pp system, but not a res pp system?

I know that the question has been hashed out before, but Wyo could be taking another look at a resident pp system again for elk, deer & antelope.

Thanks!
 
>I know that the question has
>been hashed out before, but
>Wyo could be taking another
>look at a resident pp
>system again for elk, deer
>& antelope.

According to who? There are no bills in the legislature that I'm aware of addressing a resident PP. And the G&F has just about given up on the idea given significant opposition from a minority of residents...
 
"G&F has just about given up on the idea given significant opposition from a minority of residents."

Just curious if you have data to back up your claim?
 
It does give you an idea how long it will take to draw a tag. However, I'm now of the opinion that with point creep and many top units taking forever to draw and only ones with max PPs being in the running each year that it would probably be better to not have one and just have everyone on an even keel every year and let the chips fall where they may.
 
we've had a point system in OR for years, I like it. there is nothing to fear, the system WY has is the same as ours.

when there are more applicants than tags somebody is going to sit it out, it might as well be the guy who got to hunt last year.
















Stay thirsty my friends
 
I have to agree with Topgun. Its a system and has its pros and cons depending how you view it. I personally like the bonus point system such as NV the best or the no point system.
 
Mike

The problem with getting rid of the point system is that some people have alot of money invested in them. How do you compensate someone for buying 7 years of deer , elk, or antelope points? Or 18 Sheep & moose?

The cost of all the different states' license, points, and tags is going through the roof. I have 2 children I am also getting into hunting, therefore I have to cut back on mine.

This is from a NR stand point. It is nice to try and plan a hunt way in advance based on the points you have. I feel that the top units will only be available to the top point holders with the exception of a few lucky random drawers. I personally do not like the idea of NR prices going any higher, and do not understand why ALL states really screw over the NR.

That being said, Wyoming has been very good to me the last 2 years. In 2011 I was able to get a very nice archery antelope (my biggest to date). In 2012 I was able to take my 12 year old son on his first big game & out of state hunt. It was a blast having him with me as we archery hunted antelope together, something that I hope we can afford to do every year. I got to watch him take a doe antelope the first day, and then a buck on the third day (left over tag). He was the happiest I have ever seen him. I was also able to arrow a doe. I also drew a late rifle deer tag and took a very good buck (my best mule deer to date also), along with picking up a left over cow elk tag for the same area and filled that too. These were all DIY hunts.

Well, enough ranting. I know things alway change and usually not for what we feel is better.

Wish every one good luck in the draws.

Bill
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-08-13 AT 09:14PM (MST)[p]I did not mean to infer that the way the NR PP system is now in Wyoming should be eliminated. You can't really mess with a system once it is started without screwing people that are vested in the system. It was my understanding that the OP was asking whether we would want a similar system started for residents if we were a resident there and why I answered that way.
 
>Just curious if you have data
>to back up your claim?

Guessing you haven't been to any of their spring meetings over the last 3 - 4 years?
 
I have horrible luck so I like anything that gives me a chance to draw a tag once before the same "lucky guys" draw the same tag 3 or 4 times like allways seems to happen to me in Idaho.
Also I think it has been a good $$ maker for Wyoming, if they did not add the Elk/Deer/antelope when they did i'm sure they would have already had to up the prices several times like they are now talking about doing.
 
I really like the point system.

what I think is crazy are the proposed tag increases. That will significantly reduce the amount of non-resident tags the state will sell. Maybe that is what they want? Less non-residents spending money in their state?

If the increase the non-resident fees are they going to increase the residents? Seems only fair.
 
I just play the cards dealt to me.

We do not have much choice as any states draw system is the only option for any given state we want to apply with in.

We are all non-ressy's in every state but 1 state.

I mean an UNSUCCESFUL on the draw results hurts if it was 'free no points or if it cost for points'........

Robb
 
Deer elk and antelope do turnover in a reasonable timeframe... So the basic concept is fair (unlike hunts that take a lifetime or more roll over). But I really see it as a way to rake in $50 + $40 + $30 = $120 per year per nonresident applicant without giving out anything. I'd rather just take my chances and hope the odds work out :)
 
smitty---The proposed fee increases will also include resident hunters, but not nearly in the amounts that the NRs are being asked to bear!
 
Wyoming's system for NR is definitely better than some (CO) others ,and worse than some (NV). I guess that I would prefer straight up draws (like WY Residents). Even with deer/elk/antelope when you draw with max points it will most likely be a damn long time before you draw again with max points!

That being said, points or no points, both residents and non residents can pretty much hunt Wyoming EVERY YEAR! That is amazing in itself, and probably the reason that WY does not have points for residents. They can hunt bulls and bucks every year.

In closing, WY is and probably always will be my favorite state to hunt (and I have hunted 8 states so far). The country is beautiful, the people are top shelf, and it is usually a "target rich environment"!
 
Wyo Elk/Deer/Antelope draw for Residents is the BEST SYSTEM out there! If you don't believe it, you need to move to a different state and play their odds and points and see how it works out for you. We have it so good as Wyo residents with drawing odds, general tags, extra cow/doe tags, no landowner tags getting sold off, etc. that it's not even funny. I may not draw my Peak or Meeteetse elk tag every year or even every 5 years, but at least I've got the chance. With PP's, I believe we'd be like Utah or Colorado where those units would take double-digit years. My kids would be 10 years behind before they ever got the chance to hunt. Wonder why recruitment of younger hunters sucks? Tell a 12 year-old kid from Basin or Meeteetse that their first trip up the Greybull on a pack string will be when they're a freshman in college.........

I attend the meetings and have talked with many GF employees about resident PP's. In the surveys that have been done, it's a 50/50 split. 50% want them for residents, while 50% don't. They also said the state is split 50/50. You could almost draw a line between the eastern and western half of the state. Western half doesn't want points and eastern does.

I won't even open my mouth about the moose/sheep system in place other than to say statistically speaking, my kids will NEVER draw a bighorn sheep tag in Wyo. They most certainly will never draw a unit 38 tag for moose and get to hunt out their back door........... I'll stop before I get too wound up.
Soapbox clear!

-Cade
www.HuntForeverWest.com
 
>"According to who? There are no
>bills in the legislature that
>I'm aware of addressing a
>resident PP...."
>
>Yes there is.

Well don't leave us hanging? Give us a bill number. Would like to contact my rep and voice some support if it looks like a good bill. PP's are way overdue in this state for residents...
 
Anyone who thinks preference points are going to ruin your chances at hunting isn't very good at math. it's having more applicants than tags that ruins your chances at hunting. many WY residents are just in the learning stage of how this works, you're not going to like it trust me.


So a kid might be 21 before he gets his first tag under a point system, true. but if the tag numbers vs the applicant numbers are bad enough he might be retired before he draws his first tag without a point system. without points it boils down to just luck, if you feel so lucky you don't want a point system you should feel so lucky you can win the lottery and buy a governors tag.

Drawing a tag 2 years in a row is a rush, but not drawing one 10 years is a row is a real downer. don't be so sure you're always going to be the two years in a row guy.



















Stay thirsty my friends
 
I curious Cade, how did you come to the conclusion that it will take 6 to 8 years to draw a Greybull R. tag when the odds are generally 50% or better.(area 61) I'm referring to your comment above.

Also, I can't agree with pref points having anything to do with hunter recruitment when you can always buy a general tag for elk & deer. Not trying to start an argument, just trying to understand the issues.

Yes, it will take many years, (if at all) to draw a premium tag (Moose 38) under any system. However, under the PP system, you are essentially guaranteed a moose tag in some areas if you stay in the system. Just may not be "out your back door".
 
Wyoming's PP system for moose and sheep sucks.The system should be changed to a bonus point system similar to Nevada.Keep the 5-yr waiting period after you draw as well.I am from western Wy,and I am in favor of a BONUS POINT system similar to Nevada's for deer,elk,and antelope.Someone mentioned being unlucky in the draws.I am in that same boat.Sure gets old to see the same people consistently draw tags and I rarely do.At 61 yrs of age,I have drawn 1 premium elk tag in Wy.Not too many hunts ahead of me.I don't see the fairness in a system that allows someone who drew a tag last year to get another one this year.Shouldn't they have to go to the back of the line?Am I being selfish?

I know a guy in his 30's that has never drawn a tag in Wy.Shouldn't he have preference?Or at least a little help with bonus points?
 
When it comes to PP's, the biggest problem I see with alot of folks is ignorance. Most people think the only PP system out there is a pure points system like Colorado which I'd never support. However, you take a system like Nevada's, I'd say its about as fair as it gets. Interestingly enough, the guy above states it would take his kid 10 years to draw an elk tag right after he referenced general licenses and left over cow tags. Apparently kid recruitment sucks because they can't hunt limited quota areas every year? Sorry pard, its BS to say kids won't get to hunt deer, elk or antelope with PP's. Besides general licenses, they aways have left over tags for each of those species not to mention we have other types of hunting: waterfowl, predators, turkeys, small game, blah, blah, blah. However, I'll throw out a bone so folks don't have to whine about the kiddies never getting getting to hunt. If we went to a PP system, make 30% of the tags random draw. Would it increase yer odds in elk area 100, not much, but if you applied long enough, you'd probably draw. Would it increase your odds in elk area 19 or 7, hell yes. There are alternatives. Some guys you'll never convince and that's fine. But if you can educate the others, things might change one of these days. Personally to keep it simple, I say bring on a 2 - 3 year waiting period if you draw a limited quota tag. Go hunt general licenses if you want or pick up a left over tag. The draw odds would increase in every area, some more than others...
 
Triple BB: If Wyo goes to a pp system for elk, deer, antelope, it would likely mirror the sheep/moose system in that 25% of the tags are random.
 
What makes bonus points better than preference? the longer you lose the better your odds. that's kind of the point of the whole thing.


I agree the Colorado system is pretty brutal, there is no chance unless you have the most points and that removes all hope for everyone else. the OR and WY system still give you hope but the biggest loser is gauranteed in due time.
















Stay thirsty my friends
 
I like the bonus point system. I've not had great luck drawing any tags over the years (45 yrs hunting big game) without a point system. With a bonus point system I can work my way to the top and eventually draw. There's ALWAYS something to hunt anyway.

It seems it's usually the hit-n-miss applicant who complains the most but that's just my take on it. I apply in as many places as the money will allow and still have drawn damn few coveted tags.

For the guy, Cade I think, who says his kids will
"statistically" never draw a sheep tag; under the old system they were statistically limited to never getting a tag anyway! It will take some money but IF THEY APPLY EVERY YEAR THEY SHOULD EVENTUALLY DRAW. But, odds say they will be sporadic like most people. Remember Cade, some of us are getting OLD and eventually......

Good luck to all. Application period is upon us.
Zeke
 
I prefer no points systems, mostly because of my kids being so far back when they get old enough that it kills the excitement. That being said Wyoming isn't as bad as some they give higher percentages of permits out to "max" points holders but leave a chance in most units for random draw. Also they seem to have more permits that are not impossible to get with low/no points but still decent quality, or high quality givin the right conditions. This is probably a mix of more animals and range.

Also I don't mind having some states random and some with points so you can build toward drawing certian places, while getting luck in others. But generally it seems that as soon as points are involved its harder to draw tags as often for me.
 
>Triple BB: If Wyo
>goes to a pp system
>for elk, deer, antelope, it
>would likely mirror the sheep/moose
>system in that 25% of
>the tags are random.

That's not how the proposed bill reads. The G&F has taken quite a bit of heat in past years over the pure PP system with moose and sheep and there was even some talk a few years back about increasing the percentage of random draw tags. I doubt it would be like the current moose and sheep draw.
 
Triple B: the reason I "assumed" it would be 25%, since the computer code of 25% of tags being issued randomly is already in place for resident moose & sheep & non-resident draws and therefore, it would not be costly to the State to implement a new system for resident preference points.
 
I'm not a Wyoming resident so I don't have much of a dog in the fight and I say let the residents decide how they want the system to work for residents and non-residents. But here are a few of my thoughts on PP systems.

I used to agree with the concern that once a PP system is in place you can never get rid of it because of the money and years that some people will have invested in it. However, I believe there is a solution to that. If a state decided to end the PP system then anyone who has PP would still have them in future drawings until all PP have been used. That way you still get the points that you paid for up to that point and will continue to have better odds in the draw until you are drawn.

I don't like PP systems and I'm very happy to live in a state that so far hasn't implemented a point system.

However this year I will begin applying in Wyoming for antelope. I plan on applying in a unit that can be drawn with zero points but I haven't nailed it down yet.

As I've begun trying to understand how Wyomings non-resident draw system works I admit that I find it to be confusing, but nothing that I can't figure out before the deadline.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-09-13 AT 04:27PM (MST)[p]From Elmers post
>Deer elk and antelope do turnover
>in a reasonable timeframe... So
>the basic concept is fair
>

It looks to me like there are several high demand units for elk that will not "turnover" in less than 30, or even 50+ years. Otherwise I agree with your assessment.
 
>I curious Cade, how did you
>come to the conclusion that
>it will take 6 to
>8 years to draw a
>Greybull R. tag when the
>odds are generally 50% or
>better.(area 61) I'm referring to
>your comment above.
>
>Also, I can't agree with pref
>points having anything to do
>with hunter recruitment when you
>can always buy a general
>tag for elk & deer.
>Not trying to start an
>argument, just trying to understand
>the issues.
>
>Yes, it will take many years,
>(if at all) to draw
>a premium tag (Moose 38)
>under any system. However,
>under the PP system, you
>are essentially guaranteed a moose
>tag in some areas if
>you stay in the system.
>Just may not be "out
>your back door".

Teepee, I was painting a pretty big swath with my 'up the Greybull' comment. The 61 type 2, or 63, or 62 tags were more of my reference. You did make me think pretty hard about that 61 tag though. I remember about 12 years ago when it tipped from 100% draw to less than that. Last year it was 35%. With PP's you would assume that you would draw it every 3 years, so my 11 year old wouldn't get it til they were 15. Throw in a little point creep and maybe it's 16. Maybe people applying for 62 (typically tougher odds) decide they don't want to wait 5 or 6 years so they start throwing in for 61. Now my kid is 17 or 18. I'll spare all my other hypotheticals to help alleviate the nausea!! :D
I would rather they have a 35% chance every year than a 100% chance every 5-15 years.

My in-laws were hunting the heck out of that country when it was a general tag. My kids get to hear all the stories and see all the pics. I would love nothing more than they have the opportunity to saddle up the ponies to hunt elk with their grandpa/uncles/etc.... in that country they've heard so much about. I know that they can still go when family draws the tag, it just seems cooler that it might be their tag...

The beautiful Platte Valley where I live will go to limited quota deer tags this fall as part of the Platte Valley Mule Deer initiative. If the pressure moves toward Baggs or the Shirleys or more pressure toward the Grey's or Jackson, I'm afraid it will start us down the slippery slope of no OTC deer/elk tags.

If we do institute a PP system and it takes years to draw a good limited quota elk hunt, will those folks demand opportunity be cut to increase trophy potential to "reward" their long wait?

Maybe I'm just paranoid after seeing the stuff going on in Utah and Colorado to an extent. I am still a firm believer in the opportunity and tradition of hunting rather than the 'size of the rack = the size of the man' mentality. (IMO) PP's and more limited quota hunts don't equate to more opportunity or tradition..... From the other state's I've watched PP's is immediately followed by more limited quota hunts which is followed by more restrictions which leads to less opportunity and even less tradition.

Thanks,
Cade
www.HuntForeverWest.com
 
Oak - you just ruined my evening with seeing another PP bill introduced. I assumed when it was shot down last year that he wold at-least wait a year or 2.

Larry Hicks from Baggs (also known as Harry Licks and the Snake from the Snake (Little Snake River)) introduced a PP bill last year. He also introduced a bill to remove all the Bighorn Sheep from the Encampment drainage depending on the results of a current lawsuit against USFS.
Thank goodness his PP bill was shot down last year. I guarantee the only 'public input' he's sought has been over a few drinks. Why would he think it's acceptable to introduce a bill that the general public doesn't want? The last GF survey (2 years ago???) showed a slight majority opposed PP's for resident elk, deer, antelope. IMO he wants to "guarantee" himself 1 more premiere tag in the NW corner of the state. What a crock.

-Cade
www.HuntForeverWest.com
 
Unless they have a compelling reason to reinvent the wheel, the resident Elk/Deer/Antelope PP system and resultant draw process would most likely mirror the NR system.
 
JDelec has it spot on. Point systems are great IF there are enough permits to move everyone through within than 10 years or less. Other wise, the wait to draw becomes too long. Kids starting out in the next decade will have a rough time drawing any of the better units in WY, UT, CO, etc....

I like a random draw for hard to get permits. Add a waiting period to the successful applicants and even make them apply for 2-5 years before they are eligible to draw.
 
Cade, frankly for you to make it personal, including name calling about Senator Hicks, you're being a genuine ass. Probably a little hunting jealously from your past? Also, there are other legislators co-sponsoring the bill.

Copied from the website: Bill sponsors
Senator(s) Hicks, Christensen and Driskill
and Representative(s) Baker, Blake,
Burkhart, Jaggi, Loucks and Moniz
 
I would be surprised if the PP bill get heard. It is a budget year, and it would require a 2/3 majority vote for a non-budget bill to be heard.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-09-13 AT 09:25PM (MST)[p]Teepee thanks for pointing out my error. Disregard my last post.
 
Another thing many arent thinking about...it will be really easy to
"cheat" the point system.

I have a bunch of non-hunting friends, and neighbors who will now be entering the drawing for points for deer, elk, and antelope. I'll use my points first for a quality area for each.

After that, I'll start applying for a party hunt with my neighbors and piggy-back on their accumulated points.

The worse part is, my neighbors will be holding tags in good areas that never even get used...reducing everyone elses odds.

But, why should I care? All it will cost me is a few bucks for points and a buying 2 tags each year.

If people are going to pass stupid rules and preference systems, I'll punish them for their dumb ideas.

I can forcast lots of good tags for BuzzH for the next 10-12 years.
 
Well, Buzz, at least you're honest about being dishonest and unethical! Seems most of the folks were worried about not being in the top tier and having to wait a long time for a premium area. But you'll draw it by averaging your points with your neighbors. Not sure how all this works!
 
>Cade, frankly for you to make
>it personal, including name calling
>about Senator Hicks, you're being
>a genuine ass. Probably
>a little hunting jealously from
>your past? Also, there
>are other legislators co-sponsoring the
>bill.
>
>Copied from the website: Bill sponsors
>
>Senator(s) Hicks, Christensen and Driskill
>and Representative(s) Baker, Blake,
>Burkhart, Jaggi, Loucks and Moniz

Well PEEPEE(OH no a funny name calling that is relatively harmless for you to get upset about)... Call it how it is, old Hicks is a moron. Hell I am from Colorado and have heard old Hicks called Licks a few times. There is a reason that this guys is not highly liked by several people. However you can be pals with him all you want.

Really the PP system in WY is just as jacked up as all the other states. I am looking at tags that are going to take 30 years for max point people get out of the way, just to get to my Max-1 range. THat does not count all the guys like me who are not applying and just buying points. I am however going to get my wife building point, my dad buying points, step dad, mom, sister, etc. all to buy points. Stage it out and every other year I can have a 4-5 point average to hunt on....

Pretty cool set up.
 
Also when you go to a PP system it is extremely hard to predict what will happen to different units/tags. When I was a kid I could hunt my favorite unit every year no problem etc. Then it went to everyother year, now it is ever 3 years for a chance. It is amazing how many people now have points and how long it is going to take to purge the system of the points.

For example look at the recent deer die off. In the current WY system limit the numbers and those who drew are lucky those that did not just have to reapply next year.

In Colorado that same situation results in everyone not drawing getting a point, then next year another group get s a point. In 2 years a nother die off and it ups the points across the board. Not hard to see how a 50% chance to draw will soon become a 4-5 point draw unit with a little bad luck.
 
Never said I was pals with Senator Hicks. I had just tried to get a somewhat intelligent exchange going about the good & bad issues with preference points, since it has come up again in Wyo legislature. Guess that was dumb on my part. I do find it interesting how some "hunters" get on a public forum & brag about how they would cheat the system. Pretty pathetic & unethical.
 
Don't know how it can be cheating to share points. The rules allow for it. In fact the State would want it to happen, more license, point, and application fees. My advice would be to stay away from points and just use waiting times.
 
I am not bragging about it, but when you have a failed system such as the averaging system in WY, I am going to use it to my advantage. There is a reason why the Colorado system is set up so that the lowest points in a group is used.

I am not cheating the system at all. All of those people I mentioned will probably go hunt with me, but the only reason is because I will push them too. If they do not hunt then WY wins in the fact that they sold a license without even giving up an animal.

I really do not see it as cheating at all, the law was written and as a result I will use it to my advantage. No different than I would use tax write offs, etc.

In all honesty WY has the best resident system possible, and changing it would suck. It sucks in CO and pretty much everywhere else. The only thing I might see as a good thing for WY is more deer unit specific tags and fewer General tags, but even that seems to be a slippery slope. For example in Colorado the tag numbers are set by the area manager. One manager may be generous the next not. I have seen areas get new manager and the number of tags changes significantly (over 10%). So even in the unit specific system there are problems
 
Teepee - I have no envy at all for the Honorable Senator Hicks. You're right, I should (and will) quit with the name calling. Just be aware that there's only 1 reason Mr. Hicks ever does anything and it's not because of you or I or your kids or my kids.

-Cade
www.HuntForeverWest.com
 
Teepee,

Maybe you should give Larry Hicks a call and tell him to pull his head out of his a$$ and draft some legislation that makes sense.

As far as your unethical comment goes...thats just pure crap. I havent drafted any legislation to implement a bogus/preference system in Wyoming for residents. I like the system the way it is, random draw all the way.

However, if the current bill is as good as the Residents of Wyoming and their delegation (Hicks) can come up with...I'll play the game all day long.

If the legislature can always look out for #1...why shouldnt I? In particular when they're the dumb ba$tards making the rules?

I dont think Larry is a dumb guy, but I can tell you from first-hand, personal experience, he's out for #1 when it comes to hunting...and thats just a simple fact.

If it benefits Larry, its going to the legislature.
 
I think it is great for a non-resident who wants to hunt average units. You know it takes 2 points to draw or 3 or 4 or less and you can plan your hunts in advance. For antelope it works great, decent for elk in the average units, okay for deer in G/H type units, but poor in the better areas to draw. I am happy with it for sure. Moose and Sheep, well that doesn't work to well, but there are not many tags and too many people got in when the points were $7 and cheap.
 
buzz: your comment was:
Another thing many arent thinking about...it will be really easy to
"cheat" the point system.I have a bunch of non-hunting friends, and neighbors who will now be entering the drawing for points for deer, elk, and antelope. I'll use my points first for a quality area for each.After that, I'll start applying for a party hunt with my neighbors and piggy-back on their accumulated points. The worse part is, my neighbors will be holding tags in good areas that never even get used...reducing everyone elses odds.
---------------------------------------------------------
Guess we have a different view of ethics. Screwing a fellow hunter to get a better tag for yourself may be legal, but still unethical in my book. If what you say about Hicks is true, just how are you any better? Also, Buzz, in your opinion, should we do away with the 5 year waiting period after drawing sheep/moose tags. After all, that does give "preference" to those that haven't drawn a tag recently.
 
Teepee,

Like I said, maybe you should contact Larry Hicks and explain to him how people are going to use the preference systems he's shoving up our collective a$$es.

I'd rather just leave it alone, as is. No points...just a random draw.

I've had to listen to idiots and fools nag constantly for the last 12 years about the "need for a Resident preference system".

The handwriting is on the wall, with the help of the legislature they're going to get it (preference draw for residents). I've written countless letters, written the Commission, the legislature, and the WYG&F warning them of the negative sides to preference systems.

They wont listen and the whining from those that havent drawn their favorite deer, elk, and antelope spots all keep beating the preference point drum.

I'm done fighting the preference point monster. All I ever get is ridiculed for wanting to maintain a random, fair drawing. I have to listen to people whine and cry about how their buddy has drawn 3 good tags in 3 years and I still dont have mine.

I'm over it...

I'm better than Hicks because:

1. I'm looking at the negative side of the Preference system.

2. I've never endorsed a preference system for WY residents.

3. I'm willing to keep the system "as is" to allow everyone an equal shot at all the deer, elk, and antelope tags every year.

4. I'm not the person that's introducing the legislation.

However, if Hicks and his legislative pals arent smart enough to see the downsides...to hell with them. I'll play THEIR game.

Maybe after other hunters see what the negative impacts are when my neighbors and non-hunting friends are throwing good tags down the drain...they'll wake up and take the time to address the problem.

Anyone that doesnt apply their wife, kids, grandparents, aunts, uncles, dogs, and cats for their own future benefit is foolish. A preference system simply doesnt level any playing field...period. It creates favoritism and is ripe for abuse.

All I can say to all the whiners that push preference systems and also to Larry Hicks and the legislature is:

Congratulations?
 
The fairest system is complete randomisation. Everybody has an equal chance for the tag of their choice. Thats what we (WY residents) have now.

For certain, if you go to a preference system you will get point creep. It will change behavior(sort of like thinking raising taxes on the rich will result in more $$). If an antelope area currently has 50% draw odds, it will be 25-35% in a few years. Thats what we have seen in the WY NR preference system and in other states.

For areas that currently have 10% or less draw odds, chances are you will only draw 1 tag in your hunting career.

from the "Heartland of Wyoming"
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-10-13 AT 04:50PM (MST)[p]Pretty easy fix if they have a PP sytem for group apps. Instead of using an averaging method on points, just go with the person who has the lowest number of points. That problems solved. Next...
 
Triple_BB---That would do it, but I'd almost bet if they ever pass residnet PP ssytem it will be identical to the one us NRs have right now.
 
Maybe, but I've spoke with some of the higher ups at the G&F spring meetings and they seem to be very aware of the short comings of the current pref point system with sheep and moose. I suspect the commissioners would take some input from the public, etc. before they finalized a PP system. I'd bet my last dollar the special interest groups like SFW would try to manipulate things according to what they think is best for their "members".
 

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