No More Baiting

And Your 100+ Yard F'N FeatherFlippers!

And Your LongRange F'N SNIPER Rifles!

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cannonball said:
? Next is a change to the muzzleloader restrictions.
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So does this include homemade water sources as well? I know of a place on the Manti where I counted at least 8 home made feeders and big water tanks under tree stands last year on public.
 
Not Yet!

We've Got a few here That Think if We Ban One Item Every 5 F'N Years it's gonna Fix itself!



221Fireball said:
So does this include homemade water sources as well? I know of a place on the Manti where I counted at least 8 home made feeders and big water tanks under tree stands last year on public.
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Damn joke all the feeders and big ass water tanks clustering up the land. The bad thing is that these guys own a **** load of private but put all the feeders and tanks on a little chunk of private.
 
I think it may in a year or so if the Wildlife Board doesn't take some sort of action with the cameras - Political Grapevine.
 
Why is everyone so up in arms on the muzzleloaders scopes deal? Has anyone bothered to do a little research at past harvest data? Look at the data pre scope days compared to now. Generally speaking, success rates are still the same as they once were.

so what are we gaining by eliminating scopes? Absolutely nothing? Or do we just like to complain and cry about every little thing since it’s 2021 and our feelings are always hurt. If success jumped from 30-40% to 60-75% success, I can understand the argument. But when it stays the same...? C’mon! Really?
 
And no more “baiting”? Please. You’ll see A LOT of mineral blocks placed in the field by cattlemen now “relocated”. And not a dang thing can be done by doing so.

“I didn’t place that there. Someone else did. This just happens to be where my treestand is. Prove it otherwise”.

this will just create more fighting amongst hunters on public land. I thought we had enough of that going on currently. Apparently I thought wrong.
 
Funny how many are worked up over petty things.

NM may have very well just lost the ability to trap furbearers on public ground.

UT is not far behind, people. Trust me, never thought it would happen in a state that is barely 100 years old...
 
Master Baiter said:
And no more “baiting”? Please. You’ll see A LOT of mineral blocks placed in the field by cattlemen now “relocated”. And not a dang thing can be done by doing so.

“I didn’t place that there. Someone else did. This just happens to be where my treestand is. Prove it otherwise”.

this will just create more fighting amongst hunters on public land. I thought we had enough of that going on currently. Apparently I thought wrong.
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It's as simple as a call to the rancher by DWR to ask if they put salt in that spot. If the rancher says they didn't, the hunter is now a poacher.

The only time salt isn't considered "bait" is if it's placed by the rancher. Not knowing who placed it isn't an excuse. It's also illegal to hunt in a "baited area" or an animal that is traveling to or from bait.

People would be wise to not assume a salt block is legal. It's their duty to know who placed the salt if they want to hunt over it, much the same as it's the hunters responsibility to know season boundaries, shooting hours and dates.
 
roadrunner said:
Funny how many are worked up over petty things.

NM may have very well just lost the ability to trap furbearers on public ground.

UT is not far behind, people. Trust me, never thought it would happen in a state that is barely 100 years old...
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Sweet! Hate seeing pics of animals stuck in traps. #progress
 
grizzly said:
It's as simple as a call to the rancher by DWR to ask if they put salt in that spot. If the rancher says they didn't, the hunter is now a poacher.

The only time salt isn't considered "bait" is if it's placed by the rancher. Not knowing who placed it isn't an excuse. It's also illegal to hunt in a "baited area" or an animal that is traveling to or from bait.

People would be wise to not assume a salt block is legal. It's their duty to know who placed the salt if they want to hunt over it, much the same as it's the hunters responsibility to know season boundaries, shooting hours and dates.
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I know many ranchers who want the deer, elk, and pronghorn reduced or gone from their leased grazing public land as well as their private land and some I know would be more than happy to place salt near my blind. Who's poaching if we come to an "arrangement"?
 
Master Baiter said:
Why is everyone so up in arms on the muzzleloaders scopes deal? Has anyone bothered to do a little research at past harvest data? Look at the data pre scope days compared to now. Generally speaking, success rates are still the same as they once were.

so what are we gaining by eliminating scopes? Absolutely nothing? Or do we just like to complain and cry about every little thing since it’s 2021 and our feelings are always hurt. If success jumped from 30-40% to 60-75% success, I can understand the argument. But when it stays the same...? C’mon! Really?
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It is obvious that when you can count buck and size you make it easier for the hunter and harder on the deer to live. Second, don't you get tired of all those cameras looking at you picking your nose or whatever. On some of the waterholes there are so many cameras, it is like being in downtown SLC. I say take them off the first of August thru the end of December.
 
cannonball said:
It is obvious that when you can count buck and size you make it easier for the hunter and harder on the deer to live. Second, don't you get tired of all those cameras looking at you picking your nose or whatever. On some of the waterholes there are so many cameras, it is like being in downtown SLC. I say take them off the first of August thru the end of December.
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So harvest data means nothing, just your own person opinion huh? Let’s not manage off real collected data. Let’s manage the whole state and species off some ramdo’s opinion on MM. that makes great sense.
 
Master Baiter said:
Why is everyone so up in arms on the muzzleloaders scopes deal? Has anyone bothered to do a little research at past harvest data? Look at the data pre scope days compared to now. Generally speaking, success rates are still the same as they once were.

so what are we gaining by eliminating scopes? Absolutely nothing? Or do we just like to complain and cry about every little thing since it’s 2021 and our feelings are always hurt. If success jumped from 30-40% to 60-75% success, I can understand the argument. But when it stays the same...? C’mon! Really?
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I don't know about the what the state wide numbers are but the GS unit I hunt seen the muzzy harvest increased by 11% the first year scopes where allowed. following that year each year is still 7-9% higher then any pre powered scope years.
 
grizzly said:
It's as simple as a call to the rancher by DWR to ask if they put salt in that spot. If the rancher says they didn't, the hunter is now a poacher.

The only time salt isn't considered "bait" is if it's placed by the rancher. Not knowing who placed it isn't an excuse. It's also illegal to hunt in a "baited area" or an animal that is traveling to or from bait.

People would be wise to not assume a salt block is legal. It's their duty to know who placed the salt if they want to hunt over it, much the same as it's the hunters responsibility to know season boundaries, shooting hours and dates.
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No, it’s not that simple. If you didn’t place the block there, 1) it’s not YOUR responsibility to find out who did. 2) it’s not YOUR intent to hunt off bait. 3) YOU aren’t the one breaking the law. There’s salt placed all over the public lands of this state by cattlemen. Until they ban the use of ALL salt for ANY reason on public land, until they can prove a hunter, and a specific hunter, has intentionally broken the law with the intent to attract and harvest the animal off the bait source, they can’t do anything. It’s not everyone’s responsibility as a hunter to seek out and find every salt block in the area they are hunting to make sure they stay away from there. You go hunting. If there happens to be a salt like there, so be it. You didn’t place it there. There’s a carefully worded statement in the bill. “50 yard radius”. It’s there for a reason, not just for fun. If you are further than that distance and you didn’t place that salt there with intent, doesn’t matter if you shoot an animal there or not. You didn’t break the law. The burden of proof then falls upon the officers to PROVE your intent and illegal actions. Good luck with that unless there is an eye witness. And a judge certainly won’t convict a person off the word of a cattleman who claims they didn’t place a salt block in that area. Contrary to what you may think, ranchers who run cattle on public lands really aren’t in favor of hunters or the wildlife they hunt. That wildlife compete with their cattle after all. Those ranchers push the agenda on a yearly basis, to reduce the wildlife in the area to create more grazing opportunities for their livestock.

one final thought. Humans aren’t the only thing who’s capable of picking up and relocating salt blocks which are dropped for cattle. I’ve seen elk and cattle both grab salt chunks with their teeth and walk off with them. Guess where these animals head off to after they hit salt? Water. Which is also where hunters tend to concentrate. This whole thing is a giant can of worms. And now that it’s been opened, the time and resources that will be spent by officers on this issue, trying to prove the intent of each and every mineral sight on the mountain will be incredible. It’s time and resources this state is already in very short supply of.

“50 yard radius”. And how do you suppose you figure out if an animal is “traveling to” or “traveling from” a mineral lick? You gonna stop it and ask before you shoot it? Lol good luck.
 
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HUNTINFORLIFE said:
I don't know about the what the state wide numbers are but the GS unit I hunt seen the muzzy harvest increased by 11% the first year scopes where allowed. following that year each year is still 7-9% higher then any pre powered scope years.
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The 2 I hunt remained the same. 2 years they were slightly lower. The state wide average did not increase.

another thing to keep in mind is, according to the DWRs post hunt surveys 2 years ago, the buck and over all deer counts had never been higher in recent history, according to their published data. And again, if muzzleloader scopes were more effective, you would have seen an increase in deer harvest that season and we did not.

now anyone who had been hunting that year knows their published statement and data was nothing more than a giant lie. But even if the trends were looking even slightly higher than normal, the buck harvest would have increased overall, and for many units it did not.

why are we attacking muzzleloaders? Why not archery? There’s plenty of tools used on the new bows that are way more advanced than a scope on a muzzleloader. Self ranging sights. Slider sights. 100+ yard shots. Etc... And deer during the archery hunt haven’t been hunted for 9 months and aren’t nearly as tuned up as they are in September and October, in theory, making them easier to get closer to and possibly kill. Maybe let’s start with the archers and go from there?
 
Just what the Libs want. Seeing hunters fight amongst themselves. We need to find common ground or they'll take it all from us. If we don't stand together and fight these emotional driven politicians and groups we won't have hunting or trapping.
 
elkfromabove said:
I know many ranchers who want the deer, elk, and pronghorn reduced or gone from their leased grazing public land as well as their private land and some I know would be more than happy to place salt near my blind. Who's poaching if we come to an "arrangement"?
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What you're describing is why so many hunters no longer consider ranchers as allies and want them off public land.

As to your arrangement, you'd probably get away with it as long as the salt was part of normal agricultural processes.
 
Master Baiter said:
No, it’s not that simple. If you didn’t place the block there, 1) it’s not YOUR responsibility to find out who did. 2) it’s not YOUR intent to hunt off bait. 3) YOU aren’t the one breaking the law. There’s salt placed all over the public lands of this state by cattlemen. Until they ban the use of ALL salt for ANY reason on public land, until they can prove a hunter, and a specific hunter, has intentionally broken the law with the intent to attract and harvest the animal off the bait source, they can’t do anything. It’s not everyone’s responsibility as a hunter to seek out and find every salt block in the area they are hunting to make sure they stay away from there. You go hunting. If there happens to be a salt like there, so be it. You didn’t place it there. There’s a carefully worded statement in the bill. “50 yard radius”. It’s there for a reason, not just for fun. If you are further than that distance and you didn’t place that salt there with intent, doesn’t matter if you shoot an animal there or not. You didn’t break the law. The burden of proof then falls upon the officers to PROVE your intent and illegal actions. Good luck with that unless there is an eye witness. And a judge certainly won’t convict a person off the word of a cattleman who claims they didn’t place a salt block in that area. Contrary to what you may think, ranchers who run cattle on public lands really aren’t in favor of hunters or the wildlife they hunt. That wildlife compete with their cattle after all. Those ranchers push the agenda on a yearly basis, to reduce the wildlife in the area to create more grazing opportunities for their livestock.

one final thought. Humans aren’t the only thing who’s capable of picking up and relocating salt blocks which are dropped for cattle. I’ve seen elk and cattle both grab salt chunks with their teeth and walk off with them. Guess where these animals head off to after they hit salt? Water. Which is also where hunters tend to concentrate. This whole thing is a giant can of worms. And now that it’s been opened, the time and resources that will be spent by officers on this issue, trying to prove the intent of each and every mineral sight on the mountain will be incredible. It’s time and resources this state is already in very short supply of.

“50 yard radius”. And how do you suppose you figure out if an animal is “traveling to” or “traveling from” a mineral lick? You gonna stop it and ask before you shoot it? Lol good luck.
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Yes, one portion says 50yds. Another says it's unlawful to "take big game that has been lured to or is traveling from a baited area"

Another says salt is legal only if "placed in the field by agricultural producers for normal agricultural purposes."

It's not as simple as 50 yards, that's only the definition of "baited area" and it is a hunter's duty to know who placed the salt. It doesn't say the hunter must "knowingly" hunt over illegal bait. It merely states which salt is legal and which isn't.

The most astonishing part of this is the <I-70 crowd openly trying to find loopholes to skirt lawfully passed wildlife regulations.
 
grizzly said:
Yes, one portion says 50yds. Another says it's unlawful to "take big game that has been lured to or is traveling from a baited area"

Another says salt is legal only if "placed in the field by agricultural producers for normal agricultural purposes."

It's not as simple as 50 yards, that's only the definition of "baited area" and it is a hunter's duty to know who placed the salt. It doesn't say the hunter must "knowingly" hunt over illegal bait. It merely states which salt is legal and which isn't.

The most astonishing part of this is the <I-70 crowd openly trying to find loopholes to skirt lawfully passed wildlife regulations.
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The hell it is. If there’s salt and the hunter didn’t place it there, it’s not his problem.

how the hell is a guy supposed to know that when an elk walks infront of him if he’s going to or from a salt lick, IF THEY DIDNT PUT IT THERE.

and, it’s only a baited area if a hunter places it there with the intent to hunt over it. Which is where the 50 yard wording comes into effect. It does not state a person, cannot put out salt or any other kind of attractant for other purposes. For example, trail cams. It’s legal to feed turkeys corn, so long as the area isn’t actively hunted while corn is on the ground or for 10 days after the corn has been removed. It’s the same type of thing for salt and big game. It comes to INTENT. That’s what they will charge and convict from. Go ahead and try to make a criminal out of every hunter on public land this year, that’s fine. But there’s a very steep uphill battle for every officer out there trying to charge someone with illegal baiting. They need physical proof of the suspect baiting, they need intent and they need a dead animal near a “bait site”. until ALL mineral deposits on public land are outlawed, for whatever purpose, you will have an extremely hard time pushing anything through the court system without hard evidence and a witness. Calling some rancher and asking him where he placed his salt won’t even come close to holding up in a court room.
 
grizzly said:
What you're describing is why so many hunters no longer consider ranchers as allies and want them off public land.

As to your arrangement, you'd probably get away with it as long as the salt was part of normal agricultural processes.
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Any salt intended for cattle dropped on public land is legal to hunt over around. And many ranchers drop salt not far from water sources. I don’t know why this is so hard for you to comprehend.
 
Master Baiter said:
it’s only a baited area if a hunter places it there with the intent to hunt over it.
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This is factually incorrect. The entire "baited area" section reads,
(b) "Baited area" means all land within a 50-yard radius of the site where bait is placed, including the site where bait is placed.

There is no verbiage about the hunter having to have placed it there or having an intent to hunt. You're making up assumptions that clearly aren't part of the law. That section is only one sentence long.


Master Baiter said:
Any salt intended for cattle dropped on public land is legal to hunt over around.
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Only if "placed in the field by agricultural producers for normal agricultural purposes."

Again, you're making assumptions that anybody could put out salt and hunt deer over it by saying it's for cattle. That's not supported by law. It says "by agricultural producers."

____________

If you're so inclined, feel free to prove me wrong. Start a thread this summer with pictures and GPS coordinates of you hauling in a salt block, post right here on MM that it's for cattle and not intended for deer/elk, but then go hunt over it anyway. Take lots of pictures, write the whole story, film your GPS and proximity to the salt. Let's see what happens.

If your "intent" understanding holds water, I'll freely admit I misinterpreted the law. By my reading, I wouldn't take the challenge. But, it's your call.

Good talking to ya.
 
grizzly said:
This is factually incorrect. The entire "baited area" section reads,
(b) "Baited area" means all land within a 50-yard radius of the site where bait is placed, including the site where bait is placed.

There is no verbiage about the hunter having to have placed it there or having an intent to hunt. You're making up assumptions that clearly aren't part of the law. That section is only one sentence long.



Only if "placed in the field by agricultural producers for normal agricultural purposes."

Again, you're making assumptions that anybody could put out salt and hunt deer over it by saying it's for cattle. That's not supported by law. It says "by agricultural producers."

____________

If you're so inclined, feel free to prove me wrong. Start a thread this summer with pictures and GPS coordinates of you hauling in a salt block, post right here on MM that it's for cattle and not intended for deer/elk, but then go hunt over it anyway. Take lots of pictures, write the whole story, film your GPS and proximity to the salt. Let's see what happens.

If your "intent" understanding holds water, I'll freely admit I misinterpreted the law. By my reading, I wouldn't take the challenge. But, it's your call.

Good talking to ya.
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You struggle with reading comprehension there bud? I don’t run cattle, I never said I was going to drop any mineral blocks. And I certainly never said I was going to hunt over one. What you just suggested would be illegal, but again, I never suggested I was going to do that. Not sure how you came up with that conclusion. But it’s not close.

me placing salt with the intent to hunt over it, would be baiting by the state’s definition. My intent at that point could be proven and illegal. Hunting an area with minerals brought up by ranchers, is not illegal. If what you suggest was fact, why even bother putting the 50 yard radius statement in the law? Either I can hunt an area with salt or I can’t. It’s that black and white. 50 yards statement covers my intent and allows me to hunt within that area, legally.

I’ve got out salt and mineral licks, powders and liquids right now. In many places. I have done this in the same spot for years. The area is saturated with mineral. I don’t need to add anything else there ever, and traces will alwahs. You telling me I or anyone else, can’t hunt there at all from now on? Forever?

please.... ?

The bill is worded very specifically for a reason. “50 yard radius” isn’t in there just for fun.
 
Master Baiter said:
You struggle with reading comprehension there bud? I don’t run cattle, I never said I was going to drop any mineral blocks. And I certainly never said I was going to hunt over one. What you just suggested would be illegal, but again, I never suggested I was going to do that. Not sure how you came up with that conclusion. But it’s not close.

me placing salt with the intent to hunt over it, would be baiting by the state’s definition. My intent at that point could be proven and illegal. Hunting an area with minerals brought up by ranchers, is not illegal. If what you suggest was fact, why even bother putting the 50 yard radius statement in the law? Either I can hunt an area with salt or I can’t. It’s that black and white. 50 yards statement covers my intent and allows me to hunt within that area, legally.

I’ve got out salt and mineral licks, powders and liquids right now. In many places. I have done this in the same spot for years. The area is saturated with mineral. I don’t need to add anything else there ever, and traces will alwahs. You telling me I or anyone else, can’t hunt there at all from now on? Forever?

please.... ?

The bill is worded very specifically for a reason. “50 yard radius” isn’t in there just for fun.
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I know you're not a rancher, that's why I proposed you haul salt and shoot over it. Clearly you need to reconsider your reading comprehension attack as you missed my point entirely.

50 yards is in there for a reason, so is "lured to" and "placed by." If only an entire law could be broken down to two digits and two words!

I think we can all agree the location you're referring to has been baited... "intentionally placing food or nutrient substances to manipulate the behavior of wildlife for the purpose of taking or attempting to take big game."

Your argument seems to be predicated upon when the bait was placed. My counter would be that it's not the baiting that's illegal, it's the hunting over the baited area. It may have been legal to bait there once, but it's not legal to shoot an animal there now. At least not while animals are being manipulated by nutrients. But, we all know you're going to interpret it differently and hunt there anyway. It's in your name, for heavens sake.

I can tell you take this baiting ban very personally, but I wish you the best as you learn new hunting practices to fit the changed laws.
 
grizzly said:
I know you're not a rancher, that's why I proposed you haul salt and shoot over it. Clearly you need to reconsider your reading comprehension attack as you missed my point entirely.

50 yards is in there for a reason, so is "lured to" and "placed by." If only an entire law could be broken down to two digits and two words!

I think we can all agree the location you're referring to has been baited... "intentionally placing food or nutrient substances to manipulate the behavior of wildlife for the purpose of taking or attempting to take big game."

Your argument seems to be predicated upon when the bait was placed. My counter would be that it's not the baiting that's illegal, it's the hunting over the baited area. It may have been legal to bait there once, but it's not legal to shoot an animal there now. At least not while animals are being manipulated by nutrients. But, we all know you're going to interpret it differently and hunt there anyway. It's in your name, for heavens sake.

I can tell you take this baiting ban very personally, but I wish you the best as you learn new hunting practices to fit the changed laws.
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Are you made from spare parts bud?

Again, I never said I was going to haul salt in there and hunt over it now. That is illegal (starting may). I’m not sure what gave you the impression I am going to do that.

And the old baited area is now off limits? Says who? Prove animals are being manipulated. There’s a wallow or spring in my areas. Prove those animals aren’t there for just the water. I can’t bait there moving forward. Nowhere does it say old locations are illegal now.

this is why this law is dumb. People are going to cause problems and make issues out of absolutely nothing. You do you, I’ll do me.

it comes down to intent and staying outside that “50 yard radius” when it comes to the minerals placed on the ground and what you’re intent by doing so is.
 
It's clear from your personal attacks you're only here to pick a fight. I'm sure somebody will take your bait, as it were. Have a good one.
 
what a cluster pluck. governments and their idiotic rules. now we'll have 'ranchers' placing salt blocks within 50 yards of every water hole in the state so no one can legally hunt them.

good luck with that and what an utter waste of resources and time on a complete non problem to begin with.
 
c3 said:
what a cluster pluck. governments and their idiotic rules. now we'll have 'ranchers' placing salt blocks within 50 yards of every water hole in the state so no one can legally hunt them.

good luck with that and what an utter waste of resources and time on a complete non problem to begin with.
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It's how politicians justify their existence - complete waste of everyone's time and money...
 
I am fine with the baiting ban and I hope the Wildlife Board targets trail cameras and muzzleloader scopes next. I have personally used all of these tactics to hunt big game but with ever-evolving technology it's time to start regulating ourselves as sportsmen. Me personally, I will simply adjust my tactics to comply with the laws and move forward believing that those changes will help improve the quality and quantity of our herds.

There is no silver bullet to solve the problems we are facing with our herds. But I believe that we can make small changes that will result in baby steps headed in the right direction.

Hawkeye
 
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Hawkeye said:
I am fine with the baiting ban and I hope the Wildlife Board targets trail cameras and muzzleloader scopes next. I have personally used all of these tactics to hunt big game but with ever-evolving technology it's time to start regulating ourselves as sportsmen. Me personally, I will simply adjust my tactics to comply with the laws and move forward believing that those changes will help improve the quality and quantity of our herds.

There is no silver bullet to solve the problems we are facing with our herds. But I believe that we can make small changes that will result in baby steps headed in the right direction.

Hawkeye
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Careful what you wish for and what you're willing to give up, trade off, or negotiate. Next it will be something near and dear to you and it will be gone as well.

Very little can stop the liberal express...
 
I have multiple trail cameras and a 3x9 power scope mounted on my muzzleloader. I am willing to give a little to help our herds. The trail cameras proposal did not start with the “liberal express,” it started with concerned sportsman that want to see a limit on technology.
 
I have a good friend that’s pretty high up in the DNR. He told me he highly doubts they will ever go back to 1x scopes on muzzleloaders. I’ll be chapped if they go back ?
 
Hawkeye, good points. But, let me just say that when the boys and girls who don't like hunting get rolling, they use things like this to point to. They use them as "remember in 2021, the Wildlife Board/entity/group fought to update outdated methods/seasons/etc. to be more responsive to modern standards/technologies. Those anti's, they suuuuuck.....
 
Hawkeye said:
I have multiple trail cameras and a 3x9 power scope mounted on my muzzleloader. I am willing to give a little to help our herds. The trail cameras proposal did not start with the “liberal express,” it started with concerned sportsman that want to see a limit on technology.
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Problem is, the liberal express takes hold of something and then runs it into the ground and all with good intentions.

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"...
 
Hey Hawkeye!

If You're taking Scopes away From SmokePolers!

You Take The Same Amount of Tech away from StickFlippers!

You Take The Same amount of Tech/Turrets From the Long Rangers!

AKA:

NOT THIS BS OF SOME GAVE ALL!

IT'S ALL GAVE SOME!

The BS Of Singling Out One Weapon Type is Total BS & You Know it!

Then When You Get 47+ Other Changes You'll Be Close to HELL-RIGHT!:D







Hawkeye said:
I have multiple trail cameras and a 3x9 power scope mounted on my muzzleloader. I am willing to give a little to help our herds. The trail cameras proposal did not start with the “liberal express,” it started with concerned sportsman that want to see a limit on technology.
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Elkster-

We’ve had this talk before. I rifle hunt. I archery hunt. And I muzzleloader hunt. I would be in favor of limiting technology for all weapon types. As sportsmen, it is time to stop being so selfish about what we want and take a serious look at what we can do to help herds.

By the way, I’m still waiting for you to identify the first 3 changes that you would make in an effort to help our deer herds. Put down that Mountain Dew and start typing! ?

Hawkeye
 
Hawkeye said:
I am fine with the baiting ban and I hope the Wildlife Board targets trail cameras and muzzleloader scopes next. I have personally used all of these tactics to hunt big game but with ever-evolving technology it's time to start regulating ourselves as sportsmen. Me personally, I will simply adjust my tactics to comply with the laws and move forward believing that those changes will help improve the quality and quantity of our herds.

There is no silver bullet to solve the problems we are facing with our herds. But I believe that we can make small changes that will result in baby steps headed in the right direction.

Hawkeye
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And how will you adjust your tactics and why?
 
Grizz
Honest question I really have not cared about the baiting law but some interesting points have been brought up, like the 50 yard rule.
So with this 50 yard rule, does it mean if I sit down and 45 yards farther down the trail there is a salt lick (illegally placed) that I don't know of and i shoot a deer or elk does that mean I am breaking the law?
Or I am across the canyon 300 yards from an elk and I shoot it and when I get over to the elk I discovered it is on a salt lick (illegally placed) does it make me a poacher?
 
You're Not Waiting at all!:D

You've Seen HELL-RIGHT!

3 Items alone Changes Nothing!

STOP MANAGING GAME FOR NOTHING MORE THAN MONEY & GREED!

Not Against the SmokePole Scope Change You Speak of!

But if You're Making Change to one Weapon Type You're Gonna Make Changes on All Weapon Types!

HELL-RIGHT Has Way More than 3 Changes in it!:D:D:D







Hawkeye said:
Elkster-

We’ve had this talk before. I rifle hunt. I archery hunt. And I muzzleloader hunt. I would be in favor of limiting technology for all weapon types. As sportsmen, it is time to stop being so selfish about what we want and take a serious look at what we can do to help herds.

By the way, I’m still waiting for you to identify the first 3 changes that you would make in an effort to help our deer herds. Put down that Mountain Dew and start typing! ?

Hawkeye
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elkfromabove said:
And how will you adjust your tactics and why?
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It is pretty simple. No more trophy rock or mineral blocks for me. If and when the WB bans or regulates trail cameras, then I will make sure that I comply with that law also. If the WB bans powered scopes on muzzleloaders, then I will remove my Leupold 3x9 scope and go back to my Cabelas 1x scope or open sights. It's not that big of a deal, and I believe it will help our herds.

Hawkeye
 
Hawkeye said:
It is pretty simple. No more trophy rock or mineral blocks for me. If and when the WB bans or regulates trail cameras, then I will make sure that I comply with that law also. If the WB bans powered scopes on muzzleloaders, then I will remove my Leupold 3x9 scope and go back to my Cabelas 1x scop told ue or open sights. It's not that big of a deal, and I believe it will help our herds.

Hawkeye
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You've now told us what you're going to STOP doing. How about telling us what you're now going to START doing to compensate for those changes? (More time on the mountain? Range Finder? More scouting legwork? New areas? New equipment? Decoys? Out of state hunts? etc.) I've often said "When you change the rules of the game, you change the way it is played."

This is true of ANY "game". Politicians are especially notorious for forgetting or ignoring that. They make laws based on what people are currently doing, thinking people will keep doing what they are currently doing, but people find ways (or "loopholes") to accomplish their agendas or goals in another manner. Hunters are no different. They may obey the new laws, but they will still go hunting with the intent to harvest an animal and they will do whatever they need to to accomplish that intent. And the harvest numbers won't change much, if at all.

Also, you've made a generic statement about helping the herds but I'd like to hear the details about how these changes help the herds, even if the harvest numbers do drop. Elaborate, please!
 
Remember in 2012 when we were all given 3 options to pick from regarding the management strategies and practices for our general deer hunts? And we went with option 2 that would be the “fix all”? And we would see deer numbers and success like we’ve never seen before? All we had to do was give up just a little bit for the greater good and it would pay off big time in the end...

Well here we are almost 10 years later. Less opportunity. Less tags. Less deer and less success than what we originally started with. With no end in sight.

what a great lie we were all sold on that deal.

at least SFW still gets their permits and opportunities every February. Sure be nice to see some of that money put back towards the wildlife they are stealing from us. But we do get a nice consolation prize with a pen raised, planted pheasant hunt every November out of the deal. So there’s that I suppose.
 
Imagine how much worse things could be if efforts of the past had never been made. Just because things aren’t “better” than before doesn’t necessarily mean the efforts were a failure.
My honest opinion is that there is no going back to what things once were, it’s more about preserving what we have as long as possible. Or more so, slowing the trend.
Unfortunately, I think we will lose in the end. Increasing population, time, disposable income, technology and more will continue to work against our hopes of increased herd numbers, quality and hunting opportunities.
It would be nice to see sportsmen want lower success rates in exchange for increased opportunity, but that’s just not been the case and I don’t see that changing anytime soon.
A few little things like the no baiting and trail cam stuff is something, but more can always be done to slow this downward trend in quality, quantity AND opportunity we’ve seen for 50 years.
 
The toilet started to flush when money became involved, then media, then trail cams, then YouTube, then social media, then online hunting forums, then selling gps coordinates. Egos, money and all the other BS is what is causing our hunting heritage to spiral down the hole.
 
Bocephus said:
The toilet started to flush when money became involved, then media, then trail cams, then YouTube, then social media, then online hunting forums, then selling gps coordinates. Egos, money and all the other BS is what is causing our hunting heritage to spiral down the hole.
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You forgot flat brim hats. ?
 
Bocephus said:
The toilet started to flush when money became involved, then media, then trail cams, then YouTube, then social media, then online hunting forums, then selling gps coordinates. Egos, money and all the other BS is what is causing our hunting heritage to spiral down the hole.
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I agree Bo.

And ...all you guys who are willing to "give up something" should take a deeper dive into "sensible gun control". Control is just masquerading as sensible conservation and safety.

These controls on guns and hunting have little to do with real conservation or safety and way more to do with "control".

Zeke
 
Bocephus said:
The toilet started to flush when money became involved, then media, then trail cams, then YouTube, then social media, then online hunting forums, then selling gps coordinates. Egos, money and all the other BS is what is causing our hunting heritage to spiral down the hole.
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Sure, 4-wheel drive vehicles, scope sighted rifles, and all the other goodies YOU may utilize has nothing to do with it. It's all someone else's fault. That's exactly why nothing changes, it's always the other guys who are the problem.

The decline in quantity, quality and opportunity began long before the things you blame even existed. You're only off by about 30 years. Close though....:rolleyes: :ROFLMAO:

I'm sure if we outlawed all your reasons for the declines, it'd be just like the 60's again. Your advantages in the game I'm sure don't play a role at all in declines, so you can sleep well at night a you place blame on everyone else. :ROFLMAO:

NOT MY FAULT!! Not my fault! It's that guys fault! Sooooo silly.....
 
Zeke-

Sportsmen who are willing to consider limiting technology in an effort to improve opportunity, quantity and quality has nothing to do with gun control. As a sportsman, I would be willing to part ways with my trail cameras, my 3x9 power muzzleloader scope, my slider archery sight, etc., in an effort to help level the playing field with the animals. I view these efforts originating from sportsmen as promoting conservation and fair chase not as some effort by outsiders to exert control over us. As technolopgy continues to develop and evolve, we as sportsmen better be willing to regulate ourselves or there will be nothing left for our kids.

The gun contol measures from the left, on the other hand, are an entirely different issue.

Jason
 
Founder said:
Sure, 4-wheel drive vehicles, scope sighted rifles, and all the other goodies YOU may utilize has nothing to do with it. It's all someone else's fault. That's exactly why nothing changes, it's always the other guys who are the problem.

The decline in quantity, quality and opportunity began long before the things you blame even existed. You're only off by about 30 years. Close though....:rolleyes: :ROFLMAO:

I'm sure if we outlawed all your reasons for the declines, it'd be just like the 60's again. Your advantages in the game I'm sure don't play a role at all in declines, so you can sleep well at night a you place blame on everyone else. :ROFLMAO:

NOT MY FAULT!! Not my fault! It's that guys fault! Sooooo silly.....
Click to expand...
I'm not blaming anybody. It is where we are at now. The above mentioned items have helped get us there, along with numerous others with a common denominator of money. I actively participate on your online forum haha, call me a hypocrite I've got thick skin. I will say that money, fame, inches, and self added pressure to kill/produce big stuff is one of the underlying eroding factors we are facing. My opinion may as well be a fart in the wind. None of things mentioned are going to change, they will get worse.

BTW it was about 30 years ago when Doyle started producing vhs tapes and selling them for ?. I believe it was called Aspen Fever in 1992. I have a copy haha. Yes there were guys doing it before then, but not many on Western Big Game hunts, and not many taking advantage of the resource to profit. How many are doing that now?
 
Founder said:
Sure, 4-wheel drive vehicles, scope sighted rifles, and all the other goodies YOU may utilize has nothing to do with it. It's all someone else's fault. That's exactly why nothing changes, it's always the other guys who are the problem.

The decline in quantity, quality and opportunity began long before the things you blame even existed. You're only off by about 30 years. Close though....:rolleyes: :ROFLMAO:

I'm sure if we outlawed all your reasons for the declines, it'd be just like the 60's again. Your advantages in the game I'm sure don't play a role at all in declines, so you can sleep well at night a you place blame on everyone else. :ROFLMAO:

NOT MY FAULT!! Not my fault! It's that guys fault! Sooooo silly.....
Click to expand...
You forgot people selling the location of deer.
 
Hawkeye said:
Zeke-

Sportsmen who are willing to consider limiting technology in an effort to improve opportunity, quantity and quality has nothing to do with gun control. As a sportsman, I would be willing to part ways with my trail cameras, my 3x9 power muzzleloader scope, my slider archery sight, etc., in an effort to help level the playing field with the animals. I view these efforts originating from sportsmen as promoting conservation and fair chase not as some effort by outsiders to exert control over us. As technolopgy continues to develop and evolve, we as sportsmen better be willing to regulate ourselves or there will be nothing left for our kids.

The gun contol measures from the left, on the other hand, are an entirely different issue.

Jason
Click to expand...
Jason,
They're only an entirely different issue if that's the way you wish to look at them.
I'm sure there are plenty of gun owner who will think to themselves "hey, this is a sensible gun control solution" when in fact we know it will do nothing to benefit the very issue it's designed to "help".
I don't use bait or trail cameras but I see it as being a slippery slope but you may see it as proper conservation. We just have a different way of seeing what's happening.

Zeke
 
Bocephus said:
I'm not blaming anybody. It is where we are at now. The above mentioned items have helped get us there, along with numerous others with a common denominator of money. I actively participate on your online forum haha, call me a hypocrite I've got thick skin. I will say that money, fame, inches, and self added pressure to kill/produce big stuff is one of the underlying eroding factors we are facing. My opinion may as well be a fart in the wind. None of things mentioned are going to change, they will get worse.

BTW it was about 30 years ago when Doyle started producing vhs tapes and selling them for ?. I believe it was called Aspen Fever in 1992. I have a copy haha. Yes there were guys doing it before then, but not many on Western Big Game hunts, and not many taking advantage of the resource to profit. How many are doing that now?
Click to expand...
Let's just blame it on Outdoor Life, they started a magazine in the 1800's!
I personally think declines in quality and opportunity are directly related to decline in quantity, and magazines, websites, videos, record books, etc. have not reduced quantity at all. Those items might effect quality some, but if we had quantity as we did 30 or 50 years ago, quality and opportunity would not be nearly the problem as it is today.
Quantity of game has been impacted by over harvesting, reduced quality of range, increased human encroachment, and other such things, not a website or a video or trailcams or the guy selling information or other things you've blamed.

I know you said you're "not blaming anybody", but that's exactly what you did!

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Founder said:
Let's just blame it on Outdoor Life, they started a magazine in the 1800's!
I personally think declines in quality and opportunity are directly related to decline in quantity, and magazines, websites, videos, record books, etc. have not reduced quantity at all. Those items might effect quality some, but if we had quantity as we did 30 or 50 years ago, quality and opportunity would not be nearly the problem as it is today.
Quantity of game has been impacted by over harvesting, reduced quality of range, increased human encroachment, and other such things, not a website or a video or trailcams or the guy selling information or other things you've blamed.

I know you said you're "not blaming anybody", but that's exactly what you did!

View attachment 35829
Click to expand...
Never blamed anyone. Never said it was right or wrong, but when big money got involved the resource began to suffer. You can call it whatever you want, but when dollar signs were placed on the heads of our bucks and bulls it wasn't a good thing. In my opinion that was a turning point downward for western big game, everything else has followed.
 
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40 years ago the state of Utah was selling several hundred thousand deer tags every year. Was there really hundreds of thousands of hunters? No. Tags were being bought for wives, mom and others so that people could kill multiple deer each year.
Even into the 80's, after deer numbers had declined for many years prior, the game and fish was still allowing people to harvest multiple deer legally and looking the other way on party hunting.
The 1980's for trophy bucks was very tough after horrible winters of the early 80's. Deer numbers had declined big time after that bad winter. The bad winter in the early 90's also took a huge toll.

The decline did not begin with Youtube videos, forums, trailcam's or even guided hunts and hunt consulting. The decline began long before that. Herds in this state had already been reduced to a fraction of what it once was before Al Gore invented the Internet or VHS tapes were even a thing.

I think it's silly that of ALL the things in the world to blame for when the "toilet started to flush", that Youtube, forums and especially the "selling gps coordinates" (that I'm assuming is my hunt consulting that has existed for 5 years and I help 4 or 5 guys a year) was when it all began. Come on!!!, that's just a shot at a few of us, and most likely me personally since your post followed mine in this thread, for all of the problems that exist.

I guess you and the tools you utilize aren't impacting anything at all, since they didn't even make your short list, just those of us who happen to make money helping or entertaining a few deer hunters are to blame.

People need to take a look at their guns, hunting gear, vehicles, etc. and compare them to what was utilized in the 60's when deer populations were at there peak and then reevaluate what might be the real reason for why quantity, quality and opportunity has changed. It ain't Youtube, Forums or me personally for helping a handful of guys on where to hunt each year, and I think it's crappy to throw the blame here and leaving tools you enjoy off the list altogether.
 
Founder said:
40 years ago the state of Utah was selling several hundred thousand deer tags every year. Was there really hundreds of thousands of hunters? No. Tags were being bought for wives, mom and others so that people could kill multiple deer each year.
Even into the 80's, after deer numbers had declined for many years prior, the game and fish was still allowing people to harvest multiple deer legally and looking the other way on party hunting.
The 1980's for trophy bucks was very tough after horrible winters of the early 80's. Deer numbers had declined big time after that bad winter. The bad winter in the early 90's also took a huge toll.

The decline did not begin with Youtube videos, forums, trailcam's or even guided hunts and hunt consulting. The decline began long before that. Herds in this state had already been reduced to a fraction of what it once was before Al Gore invented the Internet or VHS tapes were even a thing.

I think it's silly that of ALL the things in the world to blame for when the "toilet started to flush", that Youtube, forums and especially the "selling gps coordinates" (that I'm assuming is my hunt consulting that has existed for 5 years and I help 4 or 5 guys a year) was when it all began. Come on!!!, that's just a shot at a few of us, and most likely me personally since your post followed mine in this thread, for all of the problems that exist.

I guess you and the tools you utilize aren't impacting anything at all, since they didn't even make your short list, just those of us who happen to make money helping or entertaining a few deer hunters are to blame.

People need to take a look at their guns, hunting gear, vehicles, etc. and compare them to what was utilized in the 60's when deer populations were at there peak and then reevaluate what might be the real reason for why quantity, quality and opportunity has changed. It ain't Youtube, Forums or me personally for helping a handful of guys on where to hunt each year, and I think it's crappy to throw the blame here and leaving tools you enjoy off the list altogether.
Click to expand...
Have you not been paying attention to this entire conversation? Technology have been mentioned numerous times in this discussion. No one is leaving it out. But now that ‘your’ form of technology is being brought to the table, you get all defensive.

the truth of the matter is forums, MM being at the top of that list in the west, is part of the problem. So is Facebook. So is Instagram. And YouTube. And tiktok. And every other platform you can have a PeePee measuring contest on and share info over. In the 60s a dude didn’t have the option to sit on his ass all summer, then the week before his hunt hop on line and ask someone where to go. He either figured it out himself or he didn’t kill anything. Take a tally this year on how many posts you’ll get from guys asking for information on hunting spots for tags they have between the end of may and the first of September. I bet that number is disgusting. And guess what, it’s your platform that allows them to do that.
 
IT'S PAST TIME FOR REALIZATION TO SET IN:

THE DEER HUNTING IN TARDVILLE IS F'D UP BEYOND REPAIR!

IT AIN'T GONNA FIX ITSELF!

NOBODY IS GONNA GIVE ENOUGH UP TO HELP IT RECOVER!

49 YEARS & COUNTING OF PISS POOR MANAGEMENT!

WE'VE HUNTED THEM TO DEATH!

AND JUST THIS YEAR WE ARE WORKING ON BANNING JUST ONE ITEM!

WHEN YOU GET AT LEAST 49 MORE CHANGES TO GO WITH IT YOU MIGHT HAVE A START!

FUBAR =

F'D!

UP!

BEYOND!

A!

REPAIR!
 
I guess I should have left out the gps coordinates part.....I just stated my opinion that I think it's part of the problem. Feel free to cancel me so I quit wasting my time here.
 
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Bocephus said:
I guess I should have left out the gps coordinates part.....I just stated my opinion that I think it's part of the problem. Feel free to cancel me so I quit wasting my time here.
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No, no, state your opinion, I’m just pointing out how I think it’s silly that you’re blaming stuff that didn’t even exist when deer herds began to diminish. You stated that those things were when it all began going down the toilet, when many who have some idea of historical deer numbers knows that’s wrong.
While I do believe you were taking a poke at me and what I do, I only care enough to voice my opinion of your opinion.
I simply think you are wrong and I think you just wanted to try and blame me and a few others unfairly.
I really don’t know what the “cancel me” comment is about, but I’m guessing it’s just another attack at me in some way. Maybe you’re feeling picked on because I took offense to your attack on me and what I do. ?????
 
Master Baiter said:
Have you not been paying attention to this entire conversation? Technology have been mentioned numerous times in this discussion. No one is leaving it out. But now that ‘your’ form of technology is being brought to the table, you get all defensive.

the truth of the matter is forums, MM being at the top of that list in the west, is part of the problem. So is Facebook. So is Instagram. And YouTube. And tiktok. And every other platform you can have a PeePee measuring contest on and share info over. In the 60s a dude didn’t have the option to sit on his ass all summer, then the week before his hunt hop on line and ask someone where to go. He either figured it out himself or he didn’t kill anything. Take a tally this year on how many posts you’ll get from guys asking for information on hunting spots for tags they have between the end of may and the first of September. I bet that number is disgusting. And guess what, it’s your platform that allows them to do that.
Click to expand...
I do get defensive when someone wants to list me and my business in a short list as things that’s sending everything down the toilet. Who wouldn’t take offense? I believe much more good has come from this site than bad.
My heck, look at your hunting gear and blame the person who bought all that crap to keep increasing the advantage over the animal, rather than trying to blame everyone else.
The whole “blame everyone else” stuff gets old, and obviously gets a response from me when I’m in the crosshairs.
I know though it’s how many people work.
 
Founder said:
No, no, state your opinion, I’m just pointing out how I think it’s silly that you’re blaming stuff that didn’t even exist when deer herds began to diminish. You stated that those things were when it all began going down the toilet, when many who have some idea of historical deer numbers knows that’s wrong.
While I do believe you were taking a poke at me and what I do, I only care enough to voice my opinion of your opinion.
I simply think you are wrong and I think you just wanted to try and blame me and a few others unfairly.
I really don’t know what the “cancel me” comment is about, but I’m guessing it’s just another attack at me in some way. Maybe you’re feeling picked on because I took offense to your attack on me and what I do. ?????
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I'm sorry if I offended you or hurt your feelings, not my intent. My cancel comment was a sincere one in a request to cancel my acct. I do waste too much time on your website no offense to you or your business. I guess I'm not sure what words can be used these days without offending/attacking someone I apologize for that. Can you please cancel/delete/get rid of my acct? I couldn't find a way to do it from my side. Thank you Founder.
 
Founder, What you say has a lot of viability, but I really think you are to young to know the whole story. I have hunted most of the state at one time or the other from the time I was 16. I hunted the Paunsaugunt the first year I could hunt. I shot a very nice buck that year which was the small one of the two running together. Over a thousand hunters on the unit I am sure. It was an open hunting unit then. Now only a few hundred can hunt there. This forum would lock up on me if I listed all of the problems we have in Utah today with the deer hunt. Not my you, but in amount of conversation it would take for a history of the decline of Mule deer. In my estimation most of it has come with the inability of the DWR to act rather than react to pressure from one form or another. There are so many problems right now that will have to happen to save the deer herd. The Wildlife Board need to make a long list of changes that need to happen, then prioritize. You can make excuses about the drought or anything else, but change what you can and just maybe things will get better. However, I just don't think the DWR, WLB nor the Sportsmen have the stomach for it.
My very short list:

Quit listening to the Hounders and hunt a lot more female cougars and I mean a lot more.

Get the hunters off of the mountain after the October hunt. This mean no late hunts for anything (elk or deer) except for cougars. This way a lot of the deer will still stay high in the mountains like the old days. Now they have been pushed right above the houses then killed as antlerless.

The list go on. Baiting is just a first of many changes needed. Maybe legislation is the only way to get it done or just maybe the Big Game Powers will step up to the plate.
 
Founder said:
I believe much more good has come from this site than bad.
Click to expand...
Same argument could be made about technology! Better technology could mean more lethal, quicker, ethical kills. Baiting, trail cams, technology, etc... could help a guy be more selective and target specific, older animals that might be beyond their prime as far as health and over all herd contributions and could not make it through the winter.

don’t sit there and think you haven’t contributed to this mess we are all in. Yeah it’s been beneficial in ways to hunters. But from an animals point of view, it hasn’t benefitted them at all. It’s certainly killed animals that otherwise might not have ever been found by a hunter, if he hadn’t hopped on here asking for a place to go and someone told them the location they happened to be living in. It’s given exposure to things others might not have been aware of. It’s contributed to dick measuring. It’s contributed to fighting amongst hunters, that the entire world has a front row seat to if they wanna watch. I know for certain posts on this very forum have been used for anti hunting purposes.

you think your business is any more important than someone else’s who’s currently in the crosshairs and impacts as a result of new laws? What about the guys who own trophy rock? Critter lick? Buck jam? Stealth cam? Vortex? CVA? LEUPOLD? What about the outfitters and other companies that pay YOU to advertise on this site. They will certainly be impacted by new and future laws that will be put in place. You think you’re something special? More than anyone else?

get defensive all you want. But it seems you’re in denial that this platform is anything but beneficial to hunting, hunters, wildlife and other natural resources. Anyone who’s been around since before social media hunting related content, knows exactly the negative impacts it’s had on hunting and our animals. From sheds to killing them. The negatives far outweigh the positives.
 
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This Crap Cracks Me Up!

One Little Change & Most Either Don't want it!

Or The Rest Actually Believes One Small Change is Gonna Fix Everything!

The Changes To Help Fix it Would Make Most BAWL!

What a Shame!

When Managed Properly & Wisely Utah Will Grow Big Bucks & Bulls just about anywhere in the State!

I Appreciate Hawkeye willing to Give up a few Things on His Own but it will take more than that Hawkeye!
 
I get mad every time I read these salt-is-bait threads. Either my salt is bad or the deer here are dumb, but they don’t even look at the cow’s salt blocks.

Even though I’m a few miles from the Utah line, I figure I’m close enough these Colorado deer would know about bait. What am I doing wrong?
 
Bocephus said:
:rolleyes:I'm sorry if I offended you or hurt your feelings, not my intent. My cancel comment was a sincere one in a request to cancel my acct. I do waste too much time on your website no offense to you or your business. I guess I'm not sure what words can be used these days without offending/attacking someone I apologize for that. Can you please cancel/delete/get rid of my acct? I couldn't find a way to do it from my side. Thank you Founder.
Click to expand...
Oh bother!!!!! Cancel your account because I think your opinion is wrong?!?!? My heck!!! :rolleyes: Don’t be a boob.
I think lots of people’s opinions are wrong! I typically don’t push back much unless I’m in the crosshairs of the opinion that I think is wrong.
I guess I have to be better at biting my tongue. If I voice my opinion people run away. :rolleyes::censored:
 
Founder said:
Oh bother!!!!! Cancel your account because I think your opinion is wrong?!?!? My heck!!! :rolleyes: Don’t be a boob.
I think lots of people’s opinions are wrong! I typically don’t push back much unless I’m in the crosshairs of the opinion that I think is wrong.
I guess I have to be better at biting my tongue. If I voice my opinion people run away. :rolleyes::censored:
Click to expand...
Soooo do I need to send an email?
 
Founder said:
Oh bother!!!!! Cancel your account because I think your opinion is wrong?!?!? My heck!!! :rolleyes: Don’t be a boob.
I think lots of people’s opinions are wrong! I typically don’t push back much unless I’m in the crosshairs of the opinion that I think is wrong.
I guess I have to be better at biting my tongue. If I voice my opinion people run away. :rolleyes::censored:
Click to expand...
Nice job with the name calling founder. I think what he's trying to get at is your opinion is the only one that you think matters on this website. However deleting his account will have no effect he will still be able to waste his time reading what isn't cancelled. Everything you think is wrong or don't agree with magically disappears. Just like Twitter/Facebook.
 
Master Baiter said:
Same argument could be made about technology! Better technology could mean more lethal, quicker, ethical kills. Baiting, trail cams, technology, etc... could help a guy be more selective and target specific, older animals that might be beyond their prime as far as health and over all herd contributions and could not make it through the winter.

don’t sit there and think you haven’t contributed to this mess we are all in. Yeah it’s been beneficial in ways to hunters. But from an animals point of view, it hasn’t benefitted them at all. It’s certainly killed animals that otherwise might not have ever been found by a hunter, if he hadn’t hopped on here asking for a place to go and someone told them the location they happened to be living in. It’s given exposure to things others might not have been aware of. It’s contributed to dick measuring. It’s contributed to fighting amongst hunters, that the entire world has a front row seat to if they wanna watch. I know for certain posts on this very forum have been used for anti hunting purposes.

you think your business is any more important than someone else’s who’s currently in the crosshairs and impacts as a result of new laws? What about the guys who own trophy rock? Critter lick? Buck jam? Stealth cam? Vortex? CVA? LEUPOLD? What about the outfitters and other companies that pay YOU to advertise on this site. They will certainly be impacted by new and future laws that will be put in place. You think you’re something special? More than anyone else?

get defensive all you want. But it seems you’re in denial that this platform is anything but beneficial to hunting, hunters, wildlife and other natural resources. Anyone who’s been around since before social media hunting related content, knows exactly the negative impacts it’s had on hunting and our animals. From sheds to killing them. The negatives far outweigh the positives.
Click to expand...
So it’s not the people who use the new hunting gear, guns, optics, websites, hunt services who are to blame, but just those who built it? That’s my whole point! Take some of the blame yourself.
You really agree that YouTube, forums, social media, my consulting business are the top things that has sent deer hunting into the toilet? Come on! You know as well as I do that’s ridiculous. Colorado went to a 3 day season before any of those things even existed.
 
UtyoteKiller said:
Nice job with the name calling founder. I think what he's trying to get at is your opinion is the only one that you think matters on this website. However deleting his account will have no effect he will still be able to waste his time reading what isn't cancelled. Everything you think is wrong or don't agree with magically disappears. Just like Twitter/Facebook.
Click to expand...
That’s an ignorant comment. You really think everything posted on this site I agree with? NOT!!! Not even close. Many topics have multiple points of view so it would be impossible to agree with both sides.
You’re very much wrong.
 
Founder said:
Mail a letter! :ROFLMAO:
Click to expand...
Ok I'm happy to. What address would I send it to? Not sure what's funny about it. I've enjoyed your site over the years, but I have other things I can support and spend time on. I appreciate your help getting it deleted/canceled. Thanks Brian
 
Just like it's ignorant to think that you and your site along with other social media haven't had some determent to our herds?
 

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Bearpaw Outfitters

Experience world class hunting for mule deer, elk, cougar, bear, turkey, moose, sheep and more.

Wild West Outfitters

Hunt the big bulls, bucks, bear and cats in southern Utah. Your hunt of a lifetime awaits.

J & J Outfitters

Offering quality fair-chase hunts for trophy mule deer, elk, shiras moose and mountain lions.

Shane Scott Outfitting

Quality trophy hunting in Utah. Offering FREE Utah drawing consultation. Great local guides.

Utah Big Game Outfitters

Specializing in bighorn sheep, mule deer, elk, mountain goat, lions, bears & antelope.

Apex Outfitters

We offer experienced guides who hunt Elk, Mule Deer, Antelope, Sheep, Bison, Goats, Cougar, and Bear.

Urge 2 Hunt

We offer high quality hunts on large private ranches around the state, with landowner vouchers.

Allout Guiding & Outfitting

Offering high quality mule deer, elk, bear, cougar and bison hunts in the Book Cliffs and Henry Mtns.

Lickity Split Outfitters

General season and LE fully guided hunts for mule deer, elk, moose, antelope, lion, turkey, bear and coyotes.

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