Well it looks like I am in the market for a new water heater. I currently have electric and wanted to go to gas or tankless. I am in need of suggestions and advise. I would be doing the install myself and have one main concern....the venting. Can you vent all gas water heaters either vertical or horizontal? I am putting it into an existing house and can't do vertical. If venting horizontal can the vent be 20' of horizontal or are you limited to shorter distances? Anything else I should be concerned or aware about? Running the water and gas lines are not a concern for me, but please, any advise is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
New Water Heater
- Thread starter alp75
- Start date
If its in the garage it has to be so many inches above the floor....This is CA
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Disclaimer:
The poster does not take any responsibility for any hurt or bad feelings. Reading threads poses inherent risks. The poster would like to remind readers to make sure they have a functional sense of humor before they visit any discussion board.
sageadvice
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 11,849
LAST EDITED ON May-27-09 AT 06:33PM (MST)[p]About the only new fangled thing i push are Rinnia Tankless water heaters. They simply are a great thing and have come down some in price. It really pays to mount on a wall where you can vent straight back through it to to outside, the vent pipe is like $60. for 39", even if you have to run your cold supply and hot return back to a different location. I use a pre made valve setup, $100., that attaches to the unit for easier install and future maintenance. Not sure if they still require a Certified Installer to activate the warranty but they used to of which i am one and a distributor. Not sure if it's an issue but With a tankless unit, a 3/4 gas line is called for.
You also can get a direct vent or a power vent conventional water heater that will vent out the side wall also. These are not the bargains that the regular vertical vent units might be. A 20' run is a long ways, can't say for shure as different units have different spec's.
PM me if you have any questions. Be glad to help you along with your project.
Joey
You also can get a direct vent or a power vent conventional water heater that will vent out the side wall also. These are not the bargains that the regular vertical vent units might be. A 20' run is a long ways, can't say for shure as different units have different spec's.
PM me if you have any questions. Be glad to help you along with your project.
Joey
B
bobcatbess
Guest
DON'T KNOW WHERE YOU'RE LOCATED???
RINNAI HAS THERE PLACES!!!
BUT TALL & LONG VENTS ON THE RINNAI ARE CONDESATING SOB'S HERE WHERE I LIVE!!!
ANOTHER PROBLEM I'VE SEEN IS WHERE WATER IS REAL HARD IT WILL SCALE THE COIL UP ON THE RENNAI'S,WATER SOFTENER USUALLY FIXES THIS PROBLEM!!!
I INSTALL ALOT OF MOEN ROMAN TUB VALVES THAT WILL FLOW 15-17 GPM,TAKES A DECENT SIZED TANKLESS WATER HEATER TO KEEP UP WITH THIS VALVE,MAKE SURE & SIZE IT TO YOUR NEEDS!!!
ANOTHER PROBLEM I'VE SEEN WITH RINNAI'S IN MY AREA MOUNTED ON A PERIMITER WALL,WHEN IT GETS EXTREMELY COLD I HAVE SEEN THE COIL FREEZE & BREAK!!!
YES THEY DO MAKE A DAMPER FOR THEM & YES I'VE SEEN THEM FREEZE UP WITH THAT INSTALLED ALSO!!!
MAYBE YOU DON'T LIVE WHERE IT CAN GET -45???
IF YOU DON'T???
TAKE sages ADVICE & TRY & MOUNT IT ON A PERIMETER WALL FOR EASIER VENTING & MAKE SURE YOU'RE NOT UNDER A WINDOW OR DOOR!!!
THE NEWER GOVERNMENT APPROVED REGULAR GAS FIRED WATER HEATERS ARE A JOKE FOR THE MOST PART!!!
THEY CHANGED THE AIR INTAKE & PUT A CERAMIC SCREEN IN THE BOTTOM,THEY GET DUSTY & CAUSE PROBLEMS!!!
A.O. SMITH CAN KISS MY ASS!!!
YOU CAN'T RUN HORIZONTAL WITH THE FLUE ON A REGULAR GAS FIRED WATER HEATER!!!
AS sage SAID,YOU COULD GO WITH A FORCED DRAFT WATER HEATER,BUT AGAIN CHECK DISTANCES & REMEMBER YOU MAY BE CREATING A CONDENSATE PROBLEM DEPENDING ON YOUR CLIMATE!!!
PM ME IF YOU WANT MY OPPINION ON THE BEST BRAND REGULAR WATER HEATERS AS OF RECENT!!!
"I'M NOT COMPLAINING,I'M TELLING IT THE WAY IT IS,SOME OF YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,THATS O.K.,SOMETIMES THE TRUTH HURTS & YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT IT,OR YOU FIND OUT WHAT THE FACTS ARE,STAND UP & VOICE YOUR OWN OPINION,THIS IS STILL AMERICA THE LAST TIME I CHECKED"!!!
REMEMBER!!!
THERE'S ONLY ONE bobcat!!!
RINNAI HAS THERE PLACES!!!
BUT TALL & LONG VENTS ON THE RINNAI ARE CONDESATING SOB'S HERE WHERE I LIVE!!!
ANOTHER PROBLEM I'VE SEEN IS WHERE WATER IS REAL HARD IT WILL SCALE THE COIL UP ON THE RENNAI'S,WATER SOFTENER USUALLY FIXES THIS PROBLEM!!!
I INSTALL ALOT OF MOEN ROMAN TUB VALVES THAT WILL FLOW 15-17 GPM,TAKES A DECENT SIZED TANKLESS WATER HEATER TO KEEP UP WITH THIS VALVE,MAKE SURE & SIZE IT TO YOUR NEEDS!!!
ANOTHER PROBLEM I'VE SEEN WITH RINNAI'S IN MY AREA MOUNTED ON A PERIMITER WALL,WHEN IT GETS EXTREMELY COLD I HAVE SEEN THE COIL FREEZE & BREAK!!!
YES THEY DO MAKE A DAMPER FOR THEM & YES I'VE SEEN THEM FREEZE UP WITH THAT INSTALLED ALSO!!!
MAYBE YOU DON'T LIVE WHERE IT CAN GET -45???
IF YOU DON'T???
TAKE sages ADVICE & TRY & MOUNT IT ON A PERIMETER WALL FOR EASIER VENTING & MAKE SURE YOU'RE NOT UNDER A WINDOW OR DOOR!!!
THE NEWER GOVERNMENT APPROVED REGULAR GAS FIRED WATER HEATERS ARE A JOKE FOR THE MOST PART!!!
THEY CHANGED THE AIR INTAKE & PUT A CERAMIC SCREEN IN THE BOTTOM,THEY GET DUSTY & CAUSE PROBLEMS!!!
A.O. SMITH CAN KISS MY ASS!!!
YOU CAN'T RUN HORIZONTAL WITH THE FLUE ON A REGULAR GAS FIRED WATER HEATER!!!
AS sage SAID,YOU COULD GO WITH A FORCED DRAFT WATER HEATER,BUT AGAIN CHECK DISTANCES & REMEMBER YOU MAY BE CREATING A CONDENSATE PROBLEM DEPENDING ON YOUR CLIMATE!!!
PM ME IF YOU WANT MY OPPINION ON THE BEST BRAND REGULAR WATER HEATERS AS OF RECENT!!!
"I'M NOT COMPLAINING,I'M TELLING IT THE WAY IT IS,SOME OF YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,THATS O.K.,SOMETIMES THE TRUTH HURTS & YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT IT,OR YOU FIND OUT WHAT THE FACTS ARE,STAND UP & VOICE YOUR OWN OPINION,THIS IS STILL AMERICA THE LAST TIME I CHECKED"!!!
REMEMBER!!!
THERE'S ONLY ONE bobcat!!!
sageadvice
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 11,849
All good stuff Bess. 15-17 GPM? That is one hellalot of hot water 
The one i use most is only good for about 7 gals of Hot water per minute. This has been sufficient for most homes, say a 3bdr 2 1/2 bath. I've put them in bigger homes and everyone without exception loves it.
The colder your intake water, the less hot water you can get out. I have yet to install two units side by side but could see doing that. Using one unit to warm up the feed water to the next unit would greatly increase production. So far, i've not had a unit freeze on me. We only get to about -0- or slightly below and as long as the house is heated... If vacating the home for extended periods i dump them.
Joey
The one i use most is only good for about 7 gals of Hot water per minute. This has been sufficient for most homes, say a 3bdr 2 1/2 bath. I've put them in bigger homes and everyone without exception loves it.
The colder your intake water, the less hot water you can get out. I have yet to install two units side by side but could see doing that. Using one unit to warm up the feed water to the next unit would greatly increase production. So far, i've not had a unit freeze on me. We only get to about -0- or slightly below and as long as the house is heated... If vacating the home for extended periods i dump them.
Joey
B
bobcatbess
Guest
THE MOEN VALVES I USE WILL FLOW 15 TO 17 GPM!!!
BUT TAKE IN TO CONSIDERATION IT WILL ONLY FLOW 7.5-8.5 ON JUST THE HOT SIDE!!!
ALL I'M SAYING IS SIZE IT TO YOUR NEEDS!!!
I SEE PEOPLE ALL THE TIME TRYING TO SAVE MONEY & THEY GO BUY THE SMALLEST PISSCUTTER OF A RINNAI THEY CAN FIND THINKING THEY'RE SAVING MONEY & IT WON'T DO THE JOB!!!
TRUE,THE INSTANT WATER HEATERS ARE FIGURED ON SO MUCH RISE FROM THE STARTING TEMP OF THE WATER,MY WATER IS ON AVERAGE 42 DEGREES INCOMMING,ANOTHER THING TO CONSIDER!!!
PEOPLE THAT DON'T KNOW ALL THE FACTORS NEVER CONSIDER EVERYTHING,THEY JUST DON'T KNOW FOR THE MOST PART!!!
I KNOW GUYS THAT ARE GETTING 3500.00-4500.00 FOR A RINNAI INSTALLED,I SURE CAN'T GET THAT KIND OF MONEY HERE WHERE I LIVE!!!
HAVE YOU DEALT WITH MANY NEWER A.O. SMITH GAS FIRED WATER HEATERS sage???
"I'M NOT COMPLAINING,I'M TELLING IT THE WAY IT IS,SOME OF YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,THATS O.K.,SOMETIMES THE TRUTH HURTS & YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT IT,OR YOU FIND OUT WHAT THE FACTS ARE,STAND UP & VOICE YOUR OWN OPINION,THIS IS STILL AMERICA THE LAST TIME I CHECKED"!!!
REMEMBER!!!
THERE'S ONLY ONE bobcat!!!
BUT TAKE IN TO CONSIDERATION IT WILL ONLY FLOW 7.5-8.5 ON JUST THE HOT SIDE!!!
ALL I'M SAYING IS SIZE IT TO YOUR NEEDS!!!
I SEE PEOPLE ALL THE TIME TRYING TO SAVE MONEY & THEY GO BUY THE SMALLEST PISSCUTTER OF A RINNAI THEY CAN FIND THINKING THEY'RE SAVING MONEY & IT WON'T DO THE JOB!!!
TRUE,THE INSTANT WATER HEATERS ARE FIGURED ON SO MUCH RISE FROM THE STARTING TEMP OF THE WATER,MY WATER IS ON AVERAGE 42 DEGREES INCOMMING,ANOTHER THING TO CONSIDER!!!
PEOPLE THAT DON'T KNOW ALL THE FACTORS NEVER CONSIDER EVERYTHING,THEY JUST DON'T KNOW FOR THE MOST PART!!!
I KNOW GUYS THAT ARE GETTING 3500.00-4500.00 FOR A RINNAI INSTALLED,I SURE CAN'T GET THAT KIND OF MONEY HERE WHERE I LIVE!!!
HAVE YOU DEALT WITH MANY NEWER A.O. SMITH GAS FIRED WATER HEATERS sage???
"I'M NOT COMPLAINING,I'M TELLING IT THE WAY IT IS,SOME OF YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,THATS O.K.,SOMETIMES THE TRUTH HURTS & YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT IT,OR YOU FIND OUT WHAT THE FACTS ARE,STAND UP & VOICE YOUR OWN OPINION,THIS IS STILL AMERICA THE LAST TIME I CHECKED"!!!
REMEMBER!!!
THERE'S ONLY ONE bobcat!!!
B
bobcatbess
Guest
HEY eel!!!
YOU'RE GONNA NEED A LITTLE 120 AC TO KEEP THAT BABY GOING!!!
"I'M NOT COMPLAINING,I'M TELLING IT THE WAY IT IS,SOME OF YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,THATS O.K.,SOMETIMES THE TRUTH HURTS & YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT IT,OR YOU FIND OUT WHAT THE FACTS ARE,STAND UP & VOICE YOUR OWN OPINION,THIS IS STILL AMERICA THE LAST TIME I CHECKED"!!!
REMEMBER!!!
THERE'S ONLY ONE bobcat!!!
YOU'RE GONNA NEED A LITTLE 120 AC TO KEEP THAT BABY GOING!!!
"I'M NOT COMPLAINING,I'M TELLING IT THE WAY IT IS,SOME OF YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,THATS O.K.,SOMETIMES THE TRUTH HURTS & YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT IT,OR YOU FIND OUT WHAT THE FACTS ARE,STAND UP & VOICE YOUR OWN OPINION,THIS IS STILL AMERICA THE LAST TIME I CHECKED"!!!
REMEMBER!!!
THERE'S ONLY ONE bobcat!!!
B
bobcatbess
Guest
HEY eel!!!
I ONLY KNOW A COUPLE THINGS FOR SURE!!!
IT DON'T ALWAYS RUN DOWN HILL!!!
AND PAY DAYS SURE THE HELL AIN'T HAPPENING ON EVERY FRIDAY!!!
"I'M NOT COMPLAINING,I'M TELLING IT THE WAY IT IS,SOME OF YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,THATS O.K.,SOMETIMES THE TRUTH HURTS & YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT IT,OR YOU FIND OUT WHAT THE FACTS ARE,STAND UP & VOICE YOUR OWN OPINION,THIS IS STILL AMERICA THE LAST TIME I CHECKED"!!!
REMEMBER!!!
THERE'S ONLY ONE bobcat!!!
I ONLY KNOW A COUPLE THINGS FOR SURE!!!
IT DON'T ALWAYS RUN DOWN HILL!!!
AND PAY DAYS SURE THE HELL AIN'T HAPPENING ON EVERY FRIDAY!!!
"I'M NOT COMPLAINING,I'M TELLING IT THE WAY IT IS,SOME OF YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,THATS O.K.,SOMETIMES THE TRUTH HURTS & YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT IT,OR YOU FIND OUT WHAT THE FACTS ARE,STAND UP & VOICE YOUR OWN OPINION,THIS IS STILL AMERICA THE LAST TIME I CHECKED"!!!
REMEMBER!!!
THERE'S ONLY ONE bobcat!!!
sageadvice
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 11,849
A.O. Smith? No, haven't had a call for one.
My basic Rinnia retro-install, without having to modify too much pipe, is $2500... and i wish i had one to do everyday
As far as conventional units, I usually put in Bradford White, State, or General brands.
Yeah eel, they don't need much but they do need power.
Joey
My basic Rinnia retro-install, without having to modify too much pipe, is $2500... and i wish i had one to do everyday
As far as conventional units, I usually put in Bradford White, State, or General brands.
Yeah eel, they don't need much but they do need power.
Joey
Thanks for the replies sage and bess. I live in Heber City, Utah. My house was built in 1942 and the current water heater was installed in 98. The basement of the house is in the center and then there is a crawl space around the perimeter of the basement. From the basement wall to the outside of the house is about 15-20'(where the current water heater is installed). I could mount to one side of the basement which is only about 5-8' from the outside, but this would vent it to the front of the house with multiple doors and windows. I guess I could mount it to the back wall of the mudroom and vent directly outside, but then I would be running an extra 30'+ of water and gas lines. I didn't see a drastic difference in price between a good gas water heater and a tankless. About 300-500 more for the tankless and you can get a $300 tax credit from the tankless. With this additional info, what do you guys think?
B
bobcatbess
Guest
I GUESS ANOTHER QUESTION WOULD BE:::
DO YOU ALREADY HAVE NATURAL GAS AT YOUR HOUSE???
OR ARE YOU GONNA BE RUNNING PROPANE???
MODERN DAY WAY OF RUNNING WATER & GAS LINES AIN'T TOO HARD!!!
I DON'T AGREE WITH THE LOOPED & DROOPED BULLSSHIT,LOOKS LIKE #### BUT IT WORKS & PASSES CODES!!!
IF IT AIN'T RIDGID COPPER & THREADED RIDGID BLACK PIPE IT AIN'T MY STYLE!!!
I LIKE IT LEVEL,PLUMB,SQUARE & NEAT!!!
YOU DON'T SEE THAT MUCH ANYMORE!!!
THEY LOOP & DROOP THAT NEW FLEXIBLE TRASH FROM POINT A TO POINT B JUST AS QUICK AS THEY CAN GET IT THERE!!!
BUT FOR A HOME OWNER IT'LL BE EASIER FOR YOU!!!
"I'M NOT COMPLAINING,I'M TELLING IT THE WAY IT IS,SOME OF YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,THATS O.K.,SOMETIMES THE TRUTH HURTS & YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT IT,OR YOU FIND OUT WHAT THE FACTS ARE,STAND UP & VOICE YOUR OWN OPINION,THIS IS STILL AMERICA THE LAST TIME I CHECKED"!!!
REMEMBER!!!
THERE'S ONLY ONE bobcat!!!
DO YOU ALREADY HAVE NATURAL GAS AT YOUR HOUSE???
OR ARE YOU GONNA BE RUNNING PROPANE???
MODERN DAY WAY OF RUNNING WATER & GAS LINES AIN'T TOO HARD!!!
I DON'T AGREE WITH THE LOOPED & DROOPED BULLSSHIT,LOOKS LIKE #### BUT IT WORKS & PASSES CODES!!!
IF IT AIN'T RIDGID COPPER & THREADED RIDGID BLACK PIPE IT AIN'T MY STYLE!!!
I LIKE IT LEVEL,PLUMB,SQUARE & NEAT!!!
YOU DON'T SEE THAT MUCH ANYMORE!!!
THEY LOOP & DROOP THAT NEW FLEXIBLE TRASH FROM POINT A TO POINT B JUST AS QUICK AS THEY CAN GET IT THERE!!!
BUT FOR A HOME OWNER IT'LL BE EASIER FOR YOU!!!
"I'M NOT COMPLAINING,I'M TELLING IT THE WAY IT IS,SOME OF YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,THATS O.K.,SOMETIMES THE TRUTH HURTS & YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT IT,OR YOU FIND OUT WHAT THE FACTS ARE,STAND UP & VOICE YOUR OWN OPINION,THIS IS STILL AMERICA THE LAST TIME I CHECKED"!!!
REMEMBER!!!
THERE'S ONLY ONE bobcat!!!
LAST EDITED ON May-27-09 AT 07:58PM (MST)[p]I already have natural gas to the home. The home is older and has mostly steel water pipes. Is it hard to go from steel to the pex (I think that is what the plastic flexible stuff is called). I guess if I mount it in the mudroom and have to run pipe that would be the easiest?
sageadvice
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 11,849
I'm wondering if you could put it on the main level someplace, A pantry, laundry room, closit,... Just drill 3 1 3/8 holes and drop a gas and two water lines down and hook them up to 3/4 mains. Prolly not that easy.
Bessy, i'm all about copper, ABS, and "black" pipe too. Used that Ward flex a couple times, no thanks. My pipe machine stays in the back of my rig and though it's heavier than i am, it's worth packing! Last season i did several cabins just for gas lights. I kinda like using Cast iron no hub for waste, hate Pex of any kind...i just refuse to use it.
Joey
Bessy, i'm all about copper, ABS, and "black" pipe too. Used that Ward flex a couple times, no thanks. My pipe machine stays in the back of my rig and though it's heavier than i am, it's worth packing! Last season i did several cabins just for gas lights. I kinda like using Cast iron no hub for waste, hate Pex of any kind...i just refuse to use it.
Joey
B
bobcatbess
Guest
NO,IT'S NOT HARD TO RUN PEX & YOU DON'T NEED TO WORRY ABOUT ELECTROLYSIS!!!
KEEP IN MIND THOUGH!!!
3/4" PEX WILL ONLY FLOW ABOUT THE SAME AS 1/2" COPPER OR 1/2" GALVANIZED!!!
IF YOU'VE GOT 3/4" IN & OUT OF YOUR WATER HEATER JUMP THAT BABY UP TO 1" PEX SO YOU DON'T RESTRICT THE FLOW!!!
((( I'M NOT A PEX HAND,I INSTALL IT,IT'S UGLY,AND IF IT FAILS LIKE THE GREY POLY DID I'M GONNA SAY: I TOLD YOU SO!!!)))
"I'M NOT COMPLAINING,I'M TELLING IT THE WAY IT IS,SOME OF YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,THATS O.K.,SOMETIMES THE TRUTH HURTS & YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT IT,OR YOU FIND OUT WHAT THE FACTS ARE,STAND UP & VOICE YOUR OWN OPINION,THIS IS STILL AMERICA THE LAST TIME I CHECKED"!!!
REMEMBER!!!
THERE'S ONLY ONE bobcat!!!
KEEP IN MIND THOUGH!!!
3/4" PEX WILL ONLY FLOW ABOUT THE SAME AS 1/2" COPPER OR 1/2" GALVANIZED!!!
IF YOU'VE GOT 3/4" IN & OUT OF YOUR WATER HEATER JUMP THAT BABY UP TO 1" PEX SO YOU DON'T RESTRICT THE FLOW!!!
((( I'M NOT A PEX HAND,I INSTALL IT,IT'S UGLY,AND IF IT FAILS LIKE THE GREY POLY DID I'M GONNA SAY: I TOLD YOU SO!!!)))
"I'M NOT COMPLAINING,I'M TELLING IT THE WAY IT IS,SOME OF YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,THATS O.K.,SOMETIMES THE TRUTH HURTS & YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT IT,OR YOU FIND OUT WHAT THE FACTS ARE,STAND UP & VOICE YOUR OWN OPINION,THIS IS STILL AMERICA THE LAST TIME I CHECKED"!!!
REMEMBER!!!
THERE'S ONLY ONE bobcat!!!
B
bobcatbess
Guest
I UNDERSTAND THAT sage!!!
YOU OUGHT TO SEE THE SLOP JOBS IN SOME OF THESE NEW BIG HOUSES!!!
CHEAP ASS PEOPLE ARE GETTING JUST WHAT THEY DESERVE!!!
I GIVE THEM THE OPTION,OF COURSE COPPER IS GONNA BE MORE MONEY!!!
THEY SLOP HOUSING PIPE AROUND HERE LIKE 5 YEAR OLD KIDS!!!
NOTHING I HATE WORSE THAN A MANI-BLOCK SYSTEM,WAFPOS!!!
"I'M NOT COMPLAINING,I'M TELLING IT THE WAY IT IS,SOME OF YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,THATS O.K.,SOMETIMES THE TRUTH HURTS & YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT IT,OR YOU FIND OUT WHAT THE FACTS ARE,STAND UP & VOICE YOUR OWN OPINION,THIS IS STILL AMERICA THE LAST TIME I CHECKED"!!!
REMEMBER!!!
THERE'S ONLY ONE bobcat!!!
YOU OUGHT TO SEE THE SLOP JOBS IN SOME OF THESE NEW BIG HOUSES!!!
CHEAP ASS PEOPLE ARE GETTING JUST WHAT THEY DESERVE!!!
I GIVE THEM THE OPTION,OF COURSE COPPER IS GONNA BE MORE MONEY!!!
THEY SLOP HOUSING PIPE AROUND HERE LIKE 5 YEAR OLD KIDS!!!
NOTHING I HATE WORSE THAN A MANI-BLOCK SYSTEM,WAFPOS!!!
"I'M NOT COMPLAINING,I'M TELLING IT THE WAY IT IS,SOME OF YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,THATS O.K.,SOMETIMES THE TRUTH HURTS & YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT IT,OR YOU FIND OUT WHAT THE FACTS ARE,STAND UP & VOICE YOUR OWN OPINION,THIS IS STILL AMERICA THE LAST TIME I CHECKED"!!!
REMEMBER!!!
THERE'S ONLY ONE bobcat!!!
sageadvice
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 11,849
Yeah, there ain't a hell of a lot of us left that like it the "old way"
I'm wondering if you have come across failures in Pex fittings?? So far, from what i've seen in our moderately cold ass winters, the pipe seems to hold up ok but i've been called out where there was a cracked or split fittings causing problems.
Joey
I'm wondering if you have come across failures in Pex fittings?? So far, from what i've seen in our moderately cold ass winters, the pipe seems to hold up ok but i've been called out where there was a cracked or split fittings causing problems.
Joey
sageadvice
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 11,849
I'd go that way if at all possible. at $60, for 39" of vent pipe plus a condensation kit and elbows,... could run a fair piece on top of the unit.
Where is the hot W. needed most and how far a run would it then be?
Where is the hot W. needed most and how far a run would it then be?
B
bobcatbess
Guest
YES lesgo!!!
BUT THATS AN ELECTRIC TANKLESS WATER HEATER!!!
"I'M NOT COMPLAINING,I'M TELLING IT THE WAY IT IS,SOME OF YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,THATS O.K.,SOMETIMES THE TRUTH HURTS & YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT IT,OR YOU FIND OUT WHAT THE FACTS ARE,STAND UP & VOICE YOUR OWN OPINION,THIS IS STILL AMERICA THE LAST TIME I CHECKED"!!!
REMEMBER!!!
THERE'S ONLY ONE bobcat!!!
BUT THATS AN ELECTRIC TANKLESS WATER HEATER!!!
"I'M NOT COMPLAINING,I'M TELLING IT THE WAY IT IS,SOME OF YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,THATS O.K.,SOMETIMES THE TRUTH HURTS & YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT IT,OR YOU FIND OUT WHAT THE FACTS ARE,STAND UP & VOICE YOUR OWN OPINION,THIS IS STILL AMERICA THE LAST TIME I CHECKED"!!!
REMEMBER!!!
THERE'S ONLY ONE bobcat!!!
B
bobcatbess
Guest
LAST EDITED ON May-27-09 AT 08:25PM (MST)[p]WITHOUT LOOKING AT IT alp I DON'T KNOW???
YOU GOTTA KEEP IT LEGAL & UP TO CODE!!!
I LIKE TO LOCATE WATER HEATERS CENTRALLY LOCATED AS BEST AS I CAN,ESPECIALLY IF THERE IS ONLY ONE IN THE HOUSE!!!
WHEN I SAY CENTRALLY LOCATED I MEAN MIDWAY IN BETWEEN ALL FIXTURES!!!
"I'M NOT COMPLAINING,I'M TELLING IT THE WAY IT IS,SOME OF YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,THATS O.K.,SOMETIMES THE TRUTH HURTS & YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT IT,OR YOU FIND OUT WHAT THE FACTS ARE,STAND UP & VOICE YOUR OWN OPINION,THIS IS STILL AMERICA THE LAST TIME I CHECKED"!!!
REMEMBER!!!
THERE'S ONLY ONE bobcat!!!
YOU GOTTA KEEP IT LEGAL & UP TO CODE!!!
I LIKE TO LOCATE WATER HEATERS CENTRALLY LOCATED AS BEST AS I CAN,ESPECIALLY IF THERE IS ONLY ONE IN THE HOUSE!!!
WHEN I SAY CENTRALLY LOCATED I MEAN MIDWAY IN BETWEEN ALL FIXTURES!!!
"I'M NOT COMPLAINING,I'M TELLING IT THE WAY IT IS,SOME OF YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,THATS O.K.,SOMETIMES THE TRUTH HURTS & YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT IT,OR YOU FIND OUT WHAT THE FACTS ARE,STAND UP & VOICE YOUR OWN OPINION,THIS IS STILL AMERICA THE LAST TIME I CHECKED"!!!
REMEMBER!!!
THERE'S ONLY ONE bobcat!!!
NMPaul
Moderator
- Messages
- 8,108
Bess and Sage, sorry to butt in, have a question though.
I have a shop that I use for butchering and 4 years ago I put in one of those on demand water heaters. I could not get rid of that POS quick enough.
Lost all my water pressure, luke warm water. I have real high pressure (gravity fed from tanks I put up on the hill above me) and it is well water that is pretty cold.
I assume there are better products out there now. It was about 4 years ago so maybe I may try it again if there is better products out there.
What would you recomend for high water pressure and cold water well water to start with, and water is hard.
I have a shop that I use for butchering and 4 years ago I put in one of those on demand water heaters. I could not get rid of that POS quick enough.
Lost all my water pressure, luke warm water. I have real high pressure (gravity fed from tanks I put up on the hill above me) and it is well water that is pretty cold.
I assume there are better products out there now. It was about 4 years ago so maybe I may try it again if there is better products out there.
What would you recomend for high water pressure and cold water well water to start with, and water is hard.
B
bobcatbess
Guest
NMPaul!!!
YOU COULD INSTALL A PRESSURE REGULATOR & TAKE CARE OF THE PRESSURE PROBLEM!!!
YA THEY ARE GETTIN BETTER ON SOME THINGS!!!
IN RESTERAUNTS/MEAT SHOPS THEY NEED REALLY HOT WATER & LOTS OF IT,A RINNAI MAY NOT BE THE WAY TO GO???
I'D RECOMEND A LIGHT COMMERCIAL OR COMMERCIAL TYPE WATER HEATER THAT WILL LET YOU RAISE THE TEMP UP WHERE YOU NEED IT!!!
ALL DEPENDS ON YOUR NEEDS & DEMANDS!!!
"I'M NOT COMPLAINING,I'M TELLING IT THE WAY IT IS,SOME OF YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,THATS O.K.,SOMETIMES THE TRUTH HURTS & YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT IT,OR YOU FIND OUT WHAT THE FACTS ARE,STAND UP & VOICE YOUR OWN OPINION,THIS IS STILL AMERICA THE LAST TIME I CHECKED"!!!
REMEMBER!!!
THERE'S ONLY ONE bobcat!!!
YOU COULD INSTALL A PRESSURE REGULATOR & TAKE CARE OF THE PRESSURE PROBLEM!!!
YA THEY ARE GETTIN BETTER ON SOME THINGS!!!
IN RESTERAUNTS/MEAT SHOPS THEY NEED REALLY HOT WATER & LOTS OF IT,A RINNAI MAY NOT BE THE WAY TO GO???
I'D RECOMEND A LIGHT COMMERCIAL OR COMMERCIAL TYPE WATER HEATER THAT WILL LET YOU RAISE THE TEMP UP WHERE YOU NEED IT!!!
ALL DEPENDS ON YOUR NEEDS & DEMANDS!!!
"I'M NOT COMPLAINING,I'M TELLING IT THE WAY IT IS,SOME OF YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,THATS O.K.,SOMETIMES THE TRUTH HURTS & YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT IT,OR YOU FIND OUT WHAT THE FACTS ARE,STAND UP & VOICE YOUR OWN OPINION,THIS IS STILL AMERICA THE LAST TIME I CHECKED"!!!
REMEMBER!!!
THERE'S ONLY ONE bobcat!!!
NMPaul
Moderator
- Messages
- 8,108
Thanks Bess. I think I have the right set up in the shop now. I have an electric heater that I turn the breaker off when I am not using it.
When I do use it, it is turned all the way up and the water heats up fast, hot as hell, and no loss of pressure.
Have 2 water heaters in the house. Old part of house is gas, addition has electric.
When the old gas goes out (its pretty damn old) I may go with the on demand unit as it may work better in the house.
When I do use it, it is turned all the way up and the water heats up fast, hot as hell, and no loss of pressure.
Have 2 water heaters in the house. Old part of house is gas, addition has electric.
When the old gas goes out (its pretty damn old) I may go with the on demand unit as it may work better in the house.
B
bobcatbess
Guest
NMPaul!!!
NO PROBLEM!!!
A WHILE BACK I HAD A RESTAURANT OWNER GET KINDA MAD AT ME!!!
HE'D WENT & BOUGHT HIS OWN TANKLESS WATER HEATER AND IT WAS A PISSCUTTER!!!
I TOOK A LOOK AT IT & I KNEW RIGHT OFF THE BAT IT WAS NOT GONNA DO THE JOB,SO I NICELY TRIED TELLING HIM IT WOULD NOT SUPPLY WHAT HIS DEMANDS WERE!!!
RESTAURANTS USE ALOT OF HOT WATER & ALOT OF VOLUME ALSO!!!
WELL HE GOT KINDA MAD & HIRED SOMEBODYELSE TO INSTALL IT FOR HIM!!!
THEN THEY TORE IT BACK OUT A COUPLE DAYS LATER BECAUSE IT WAS TOO SMALL FOR THE JOB!!!
THE INSTALLER ENDED UP NOT GETTIN PAID & I'M SURE GLAD I DIDN'T WORK FOR THE JOKER ANYWAY!!!
JUST SAYIN,CHECK ALL THE VARIABLES,THEY HAVE THEIR PLACES!!!
SOME OF THE INSTALLERS IN THE SLC AREA HAVE BEEN GETTING 3500.00-4500.00 INSTALLED,UNLESS YOU ARE A "GREENIE" SAYING:"LOOK MY WATER HEATER ISN'T USING ANY ENERGY WHEN ITS SHUT OFF" I DON'T SEE HOW YOU COULD EVER BREAK EVEN ON ONE OF THEM BUT LIKE I SAID IT DEPENDS ON THE APPLICATION & THE COST OF THE INSTALLATION!!!
I HAVE SEEN A FEW AROUND HERE MOUNTED ON PERIMETER WALLS FREEZE THE COIL UP & BREAK THEM,RINNAI IS NOT GONNA GUARANTEE IT IF IT FREEZES UP & BREAKS!!!
"I'M NOT COMPLAINING,I'M TELLING IT THE WAY IT IS,SOME OF YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,THATS O.K.,SOMETIMES THE TRUTH HURTS & YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT IT,OR YOU FIND OUT WHAT THE FACTS ARE,STAND UP & VOICE YOUR OWN OPINION,THIS IS STILL AMERICA THE LAST TIME I CHECKED"!!!
REMEMBER!!!
THERE'S ONLY ONE bobcat!!!
NO PROBLEM!!!
A WHILE BACK I HAD A RESTAURANT OWNER GET KINDA MAD AT ME!!!
HE'D WENT & BOUGHT HIS OWN TANKLESS WATER HEATER AND IT WAS A PISSCUTTER!!!
I TOOK A LOOK AT IT & I KNEW RIGHT OFF THE BAT IT WAS NOT GONNA DO THE JOB,SO I NICELY TRIED TELLING HIM IT WOULD NOT SUPPLY WHAT HIS DEMANDS WERE!!!
RESTAURANTS USE ALOT OF HOT WATER & ALOT OF VOLUME ALSO!!!
WELL HE GOT KINDA MAD & HIRED SOMEBODYELSE TO INSTALL IT FOR HIM!!!
THEN THEY TORE IT BACK OUT A COUPLE DAYS LATER BECAUSE IT WAS TOO SMALL FOR THE JOB!!!
THE INSTALLER ENDED UP NOT GETTIN PAID & I'M SURE GLAD I DIDN'T WORK FOR THE JOKER ANYWAY!!!
JUST SAYIN,CHECK ALL THE VARIABLES,THEY HAVE THEIR PLACES!!!
SOME OF THE INSTALLERS IN THE SLC AREA HAVE BEEN GETTING 3500.00-4500.00 INSTALLED,UNLESS YOU ARE A "GREENIE" SAYING:"LOOK MY WATER HEATER ISN'T USING ANY ENERGY WHEN ITS SHUT OFF" I DON'T SEE HOW YOU COULD EVER BREAK EVEN ON ONE OF THEM BUT LIKE I SAID IT DEPENDS ON THE APPLICATION & THE COST OF THE INSTALLATION!!!
I HAVE SEEN A FEW AROUND HERE MOUNTED ON PERIMETER WALLS FREEZE THE COIL UP & BREAK THEM,RINNAI IS NOT GONNA GUARANTEE IT IF IT FREEZES UP & BREAKS!!!
"I'M NOT COMPLAINING,I'M TELLING IT THE WAY IT IS,SOME OF YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,THATS O.K.,SOMETIMES THE TRUTH HURTS & YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT IT,OR YOU FIND OUT WHAT THE FACTS ARE,STAND UP & VOICE YOUR OWN OPINION,THIS IS STILL AMERICA THE LAST TIME I CHECKED"!!!
REMEMBER!!!
THERE'S ONLY ONE bobcat!!!
Bosche makes a mid-90s% efficient tankless that can vent with pvc. It runs over 7 gal a minute for the higher temp water. A good tankless will save some money on gas bills, rather than keeping 50 gallons hot, but they do not pay for themselves. The Bosche runs around $1,800, but the vent type saves alot of work on the other end.
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www.sagebasin.com
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www.sagebasin.com
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M
Model_70_Guy
Guest
I went to a tankless heater about a year and a half ago and have never looked back. Hot water supply is never a problem and I will stay with a tankless system in the future when we relocate. One thing I do like about my heater is we have a teenage daughter that likes to take very long showers and sometimes I just cannot help myself and I hit the off button and she gets cold water within a few seconds. She was complaining about the heater not working right until she figured out it was me turning it off. Gets them out of the shower right away when you remove the hot water.
Go to the governments energy star web site and compare the savings from different fixtures! They actually break it down for you. I think the last time I figured it out it would take 10 plus years to reach a break even point on the tankless systems compared to a tank. Something to think about, as most folks stay in a home less than 5 years. Plus, no one has been able to give me a service life expectancy on the tankless systems! I just had a homeowner that wanted us to build a "green" home, so all of these question came up.
Also, as Bobcat said, it has to be sized properly or you are just wasting money. If your wife is running the kids a bath, washing cloths, doing the dishes all at the same time you don't want to run short on hot water.
As for Manoblocks(pex), it is the best thing that has happened to residential construction in the last 15 years in my opinion. Done properly, by a plumber it is a much more efficient and cost prohibitive option for both the plumber and the homeowner. My customers love being able to walk over and turn off individual fixtures on the "block". I understand that the service life of Pex is still up in the air but so far so good! Moen fixtures are the Best!
Also, as Bobcat said, it has to be sized properly or you are just wasting money. If your wife is running the kids a bath, washing cloths, doing the dishes all at the same time you don't want to run short on hot water.
As for Manoblocks(pex), it is the best thing that has happened to residential construction in the last 15 years in my opinion. Done properly, by a plumber it is a much more efficient and cost prohibitive option for both the plumber and the homeowner. My customers love being able to walk over and turn off individual fixtures on the "block". I understand that the service life of Pex is still up in the air but so far so good! Moen fixtures are the Best!
Apexmtnman
Active Member
- Messages
- 591
If the tankless water heater has a .82 energy savings rating or higher it qualifies for a 30% federal tax credit for 2009. In Utah you can also get a 300 dollar rebate from Questar Gas. I installed one for a good friend of mine and he loves it so far, it's a Rinnai R75LSI. They are rated for freeze protection to -30F, but if the power goes off they may freeze. Here's a link for the tax credit.
http://www.rinnai.us/tankless-tax-credit/
http://www.rinnai.us/tankless-tax-credit/
sageadvice
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 11,849
3BKid, obviously, you don't care for the tankless units and that's fine as the good ones are fairly new and take getting used to. I only deal in Rinnai and have installed over 20 units in what i consider "cold" country and have never had a problem or callback yet. Most who live here, migrate down to warmer climates during the winter or only use the residence in spurts. There "can be" a great savings depending on each families or couples particular habits and use. Some claim their energy savings has already paid for their unit. They don't cost that much more than a direct vent unit.
I generally install R75's. They are big enough to handle most homes and you never run out of hot water, ever. You can open every hot fixture in the house and "Maybe" not have enough to have hot hot in every fixture but you should unless you have fixtures that demand huge use like Bessy was talking, it will continue to put out the same volume of hot water forever. Bigger units, up until now, cost quite a bit more but you don't get the return in production of hot water in gals per minute. Bigger units doesn't necessarily mean lots more hot water. The people that have these R75's claim it's not a problem and like them. Compared to a regular unit, when you're out, you're out.
The only reason to use pex is because simple tradesmen can use the stuff and it's cheap IMO. As mentioned above we have been having problems with service calls on New homes where flatlanders came up here and used "pex"...the fittings have cracked or failed. Also, It may be fine in the valley but up here, water settles in the low points and freezes. So far, the tubing itself has held up but the fact remains that there is solid ice in the lines.
These Summer and vacation people do not heat their homes while gone for the winter. Someone comes up to use their place for a weekend in the winter and they have No water! No Toilet! No shower! The lines are frozen solid. I use copper built to drain out. Done properly, every drop of water in the system drains out and there can be no freeze problems, at all! It takes a skilled tradesmen and costs a little more, not much mind you, but you get a good job that has stood the test of time.
Joey
I generally install R75's. They are big enough to handle most homes and you never run out of hot water, ever. You can open every hot fixture in the house and "Maybe" not have enough to have hot hot in every fixture but you should unless you have fixtures that demand huge use like Bessy was talking, it will continue to put out the same volume of hot water forever. Bigger units, up until now, cost quite a bit more but you don't get the return in production of hot water in gals per minute. Bigger units doesn't necessarily mean lots more hot water. The people that have these R75's claim it's not a problem and like them. Compared to a regular unit, when you're out, you're out.
The only reason to use pex is because simple tradesmen can use the stuff and it's cheap IMO. As mentioned above we have been having problems with service calls on New homes where flatlanders came up here and used "pex"...the fittings have cracked or failed. Also, It may be fine in the valley but up here, water settles in the low points and freezes. So far, the tubing itself has held up but the fact remains that there is solid ice in the lines.
These Summer and vacation people do not heat their homes while gone for the winter. Someone comes up to use their place for a weekend in the winter and they have No water! No Toilet! No shower! The lines are frozen solid. I use copper built to drain out. Done properly, every drop of water in the system drains out and there can be no freeze problems, at all! It takes a skilled tradesmen and costs a little more, not much mind you, but you get a good job that has stood the test of time.
Joey
Yep Joey,
Done right copper drains and works well. So does PEX if done right. I live in lovely Idaho and our extremes in weather are about as bad as they get. Fact is in 15 years of having my plumbers put Pex in my homes I have never had a issue with the product. Knock on wood! I did have copper pipes freeze at the exterior hose bib years ago, but it propably wasn't drained proberly? A true tradesman will do a good job no matter what product he is using, true?
As for the tankless systems I could care less if someone wants to use one. I just stated the facts from the Energy Star web site. You have to do the math for your individual situation to see if there is a savings. Just because you put a tankless system in and do a dang fine job on the installation doesn't mean it will corrilate to a savings to the homeowner. Real Return on Investment should always be considered. By the way $2500 installed sounds like a very fair price!
Done right copper drains and works well. So does PEX if done right. I live in lovely Idaho and our extremes in weather are about as bad as they get. Fact is in 15 years of having my plumbers put Pex in my homes I have never had a issue with the product. Knock on wood! I did have copper pipes freeze at the exterior hose bib years ago, but it propably wasn't drained proberly? A true tradesman will do a good job no matter what product he is using, true?
As for the tankless systems I could care less if someone wants to use one. I just stated the facts from the Energy Star web site. You have to do the math for your individual situation to see if there is a savings. Just because you put a tankless system in and do a dang fine job on the installation doesn't mean it will corrilate to a savings to the homeowner. Real Return on Investment should always be considered. By the way $2500 installed sounds like a very fair price!
Thanks for all the replies. I love getting all the opinions possible. Luckily I don't need one asap, so I can really study out my options.
Does anyone know of any utah guys that would be willing to trade out the product and install....or just the install portion? I have a fleet of ATV and Snowmobile rentals and could also provide a cabin rental in the Uintas for anywhere from 6ppl up to 22 ppl. Check out our website www.bearriverlodge.com That would ultimately be the best option for me, but would buy and install myself, or pay someone else to do the whole work.
Does anyone know of any utah guys that would be willing to trade out the product and install....or just the install portion? I have a fleet of ATV and Snowmobile rentals and could also provide a cabin rental in the Uintas for anywhere from 6ppl up to 22 ppl. Check out our website www.bearriverlodge.com That would ultimately be the best option for me, but would buy and install myself, or pay someone else to do the whole work.
I found the negative responces to pex plumbing interesting. I'm not a plumber. My father-in-law is and uses pex. I've built many, many homes plumbed with it. My home is plumbed with it. I think sometimes new technology is hard to embrace. Old school craftsmen are leary of new stuff. Believe me, the first time I saw OSB sheet goods, I swore to never use them, among other "advances" in building materials. Sometimes the project dictated their use. I think it is craftsmanship that produces the end product, even using new-tech material. mtmuley
sageadvice
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 11,849
I see both you guys points, i guess if a guy blocked it, used the ridged stick stuff, to have fall on the main runs and used tee's to branch up for each and every supply, maybe you could winterize to get all the water out to keep it from freezing up while the owners are away for the season. Most that i see out there though, don't go through near the trouble. They just loop it through the knockouts in the TGI's and once going up to pick up one fixture, they'll loop it back down to pick up another. This creates tons of water traps and i will not have a water trap in my built system.
If a person lives in the home, it's heated one way or another and i could see it not being a concern.. It's the non-heated, cabin, second home units that i'm getting business from. I actually have pulled every bit of pex out of brand new homes and replumbed with copper at the owners request and expense. Another thing, being it's easier to install, i would think the price of install would be cheaper but i underbid guys who use that stuff, the haphazard way i mentioned, so "somebody" is getting taken in my opinion. I just don't care to put my reputation and liability Ins policy to test on a product that has proven, to us plumbers in this area, to fail. Several other, what i call good, plumbers in the area won't use it either. That's my $.02
Joey
If a person lives in the home, it's heated one way or another and i could see it not being a concern.. It's the non-heated, cabin, second home units that i'm getting business from. I actually have pulled every bit of pex out of brand new homes and replumbed with copper at the owners request and expense. Another thing, being it's easier to install, i would think the price of install would be cheaper but i underbid guys who use that stuff, the haphazard way i mentioned, so "somebody" is getting taken in my opinion. I just don't care to put my reputation and liability Ins policy to test on a product that has proven, to us plumbers in this area, to fail. Several other, what i call good, plumbers in the area won't use it either. That's my $.02
Joey
J
Jingow
Guest
Whatever happend to the good old Hoit water heaters. I worked on a house that had the original one that is almost 50 tears old and still kicking.
B
bobcatbess
Guest
IT'S BEEN QUITE A FEW YEARS BACK!!!
THEY CAME OUT WITH GREY POLY BUTYLENE!!!
WHEN IT CAME OUT WE TOOK A CLOSE LOOK AT IT!!!
OPTED TO NEVER INSTALL ANY OF THAT F'N TRASH!!!
A FEW YEARS LATER THE TRASH STARTS FAILING,BIGTIME!!!
FOR BEING THE NEATEST $HIT SINCE BREAD & BUTTER I SURE AM GLAD MY NAME ISN'T ON ANY OF IT!!!
YA,PEX IS BETTER THAN GREY POLY,BUT IT HASN'T HAD A TRUE TEST YET!!!
I'VE SEEN IT FAIL ALREADY,YES THE LOOPED & DROOPED TRASH WILL FREEZE & BREAK JUST LIKE ANY OTHER PIPE & IT LOOKS LIKE $HIT!!!
YES sage I HAVE SEEN THE PEX FITTINGS FAIL TOO!!!
GOT A BUNDLE OF 3/4" BLUE A WHILE BACK I HAD TO RETURN BECAUSE YOU COULDN'T GET ANY FITTINGS IN IT,WAY TOO FRICKEN TIGHT!!!
SEEN A FEW PIN HOLES IN PEX!!!
SURE IT WAS TESTED BEFORE IT LEFT THE FACTORY,PFFFF....!!!
WHAT I REALLY GET A KICK OUT OF IS SOME SUPPLIERS STORE IT OUT IN THE SUN,THE UV EATS PEX UP LIKE ITS CANDY!!!
THEY JUST KEEP LOOKING FOR MORE CHEAPER,FASTER & UN-PROFFESSIONAL
WAYS,IT WON'T BE LONG & PISS ON IT,THEY CAN HAVE IT!!!
THE DAY I HAVE TO START BEING UN-PROFFESSIONAL JUST TO COMPETE WITH A BUNCH OF SLOPPY ASS KNOW NOTHINGS THAT CAN'T FIT PIPE OUT OF A WET PAPER BAG THEY CAN HAVE IT!!!
WHAT A BUNCH OF UN-PROFFESSIONAL LOOKING SLOP JOBS ANYMORE!!!
IF THEY HAD TO GO BACK TO COPPER & SCREWED PIPE 80% OF THEM WOULD BE SCREWED,HELL 50% OF THEM PROBABLY WOULDN'T EVEN HAVE A CLUE!!!
WONDER WHAT THE NEXT CHEAP,QUICK TRASH WILL BE???
"I'M NOT COMPLAINING,I'M TELLING IT THE WAY IT IS,SOME OF YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,THATS O.K.,SOMETIMES THE TRUTH HURTS & YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT IT,OR YOU FIND OUT WHAT THE FACTS ARE,STAND UP & VOICE YOUR OWN OPINION,THIS IS STILL AMERICA THE LAST TIME I CHECKED"!!!
REMEMBER!!!
THERE'S ONLY ONE bobcat!!!
THEY CAME OUT WITH GREY POLY BUTYLENE!!!
WHEN IT CAME OUT WE TOOK A CLOSE LOOK AT IT!!!
OPTED TO NEVER INSTALL ANY OF THAT F'N TRASH!!!
A FEW YEARS LATER THE TRASH STARTS FAILING,BIGTIME!!!
FOR BEING THE NEATEST $HIT SINCE BREAD & BUTTER I SURE AM GLAD MY NAME ISN'T ON ANY OF IT!!!
YA,PEX IS BETTER THAN GREY POLY,BUT IT HASN'T HAD A TRUE TEST YET!!!
I'VE SEEN IT FAIL ALREADY,YES THE LOOPED & DROOPED TRASH WILL FREEZE & BREAK JUST LIKE ANY OTHER PIPE & IT LOOKS LIKE $HIT!!!
YES sage I HAVE SEEN THE PEX FITTINGS FAIL TOO!!!
GOT A BUNDLE OF 3/4" BLUE A WHILE BACK I HAD TO RETURN BECAUSE YOU COULDN'T GET ANY FITTINGS IN IT,WAY TOO FRICKEN TIGHT!!!
SEEN A FEW PIN HOLES IN PEX!!!
SURE IT WAS TESTED BEFORE IT LEFT THE FACTORY,PFFFF....!!!
WHAT I REALLY GET A KICK OUT OF IS SOME SUPPLIERS STORE IT OUT IN THE SUN,THE UV EATS PEX UP LIKE ITS CANDY!!!
THEY JUST KEEP LOOKING FOR MORE CHEAPER,FASTER & UN-PROFFESSIONAL
WAYS,IT WON'T BE LONG & PISS ON IT,THEY CAN HAVE IT!!!
THE DAY I HAVE TO START BEING UN-PROFFESSIONAL JUST TO COMPETE WITH A BUNCH OF SLOPPY ASS KNOW NOTHINGS THAT CAN'T FIT PIPE OUT OF A WET PAPER BAG THEY CAN HAVE IT!!!
WHAT A BUNCH OF UN-PROFFESSIONAL LOOKING SLOP JOBS ANYMORE!!!
IF THEY HAD TO GO BACK TO COPPER & SCREWED PIPE 80% OF THEM WOULD BE SCREWED,HELL 50% OF THEM PROBABLY WOULDN'T EVEN HAVE A CLUE!!!
WONDER WHAT THE NEXT CHEAP,QUICK TRASH WILL BE???
"I'M NOT COMPLAINING,I'M TELLING IT THE WAY IT IS,SOME OF YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,THATS O.K.,SOMETIMES THE TRUTH HURTS & YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT IT,OR YOU FIND OUT WHAT THE FACTS ARE,STAND UP & VOICE YOUR OWN OPINION,THIS IS STILL AMERICA THE LAST TIME I CHECKED"!!!
REMEMBER!!!
THERE'S ONLY ONE bobcat!!!
