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New rules for wolf hunting come to legislation

Can't watch the link on my phone but if its about S1305 or the identical bill in the house that allows them to use live bait and private aircraft then I'm against it. The wording in the bill is so open ended it could easily cause the USFWS to review and even remove their acceptance of our wolf management plan. I like the ability to hunt wolves and I don't want to gamble that away because the rancher who drafted the bill can't kill wolves without using his wife'a pooch as bait.
 
I'm not against it. Sounds like a good way to allow ranchers to remove more wolves! A lot of these ranchers aren't dedicated hunters and need to remove problems ASAP and get back to working their ranch.

Mike
 
I agree we should do nothing that would jeopardize the current hunting. With that said we need all the tools possible. Alaska and Canada treat them like coyotes and they are still out of control. Great work so far Idaho!!!
 
The problems I have with these bills is too many times it was not a wolf that killed the calf, lambs or what ever livestock it was, just go talk to Carter Niemeyer who use to be a government trapper, he has proved many ranchers wrong about the preditor responsible for the killing. Also I am against grazing stock on leased public lands. If I were IDFG I would start keeping a real close eye on the number of wolves being killed as to not kill too many and have them slip back into the feds hands.
Chuck in Boise
 
Anyone who thinks the ranchers have not been planting wolves when they can should seriously rethink that position. I am for anything that will reduce their numbers. Piss on the feds it should not be a political question but it seems it always will be.
 
>Anyone who thinks the ranchers have
>not been planting wolves when
>they can should seriously rethink
>that position. I am for
>anything that will reduce their
>numbers. Piss on the feds
>it should not be a
>political question but it seems
>it always will be.


I have 2 more truck loads coming down from Canada next week, don't be letting the cat out of the bag until I can get'em unloaded!! You and ole Chuck must've tied on a pretty good one down at the pub the other night! Now thats some funny ##### right there!! LMAO
 
>>Anyone who thinks the ranchers have
>>not been planting wolves when
>>they can should seriously rethink
>>that position. I am for
>>anything that will reduce their
>>numbers. Piss on the feds
>>it should not be a
>>political question but it seems
>>it always will be.
>
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>I have 2 more truck loads
>coming down from Canada next
>week, don't be letting the
>cat out of the bag
>until I can get'em unloaded!!
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> You and
>ole Chuck must've tied on
>a pretty good one down
>at the pub the other
>night! Now thats some funny
>##### right there!! LMAO


I'm pretty sure he was talking about SSS, you know, 'planting' them in the ground?
 
Say what you will about me as I don't care, but if you guys are not careful and kill too many wolves Idaho will lose control and they will go back into the feds hands never to be given back to Idaho again. Ranchers have no data that suggest that every single kill was the result of a wolf, did someone come out and perform NECROPSIE on the dead animal, whether it be a calf or a lamb??
Chances are NO. They take a picture see a bunch of coyote tracks in the mud and assume. Now a wolf is like a grizzly bear he will take advantage of a free meal that something else killed whether it be a cat or a bear. But I already know with this rabid crowd of wolf haters you are doing to do and assume that its always the wolves fault and they don't belong here, BS they were here long before any white man. If your not happy with the present hunting you should be getting the bison back to its native lands..right here in Idaho. You will get more meat from a bison then a little 250lb mule deer. I am a big game hunter.
Also for how many years now have you guys been saying wolves were going to stock children at their bus stops???? has not happened yet now has it. If the truth be known more people are killed each by cows then wolves or grizzly bears.

Chuck in Boise
 
Slight difference between a wolf track and a coyote track. And every suspected wolf kill that I know of has someone from F&G or has the gov trapper come check it out. I'm an avid "Canadian" wolf in the US hater and always will be and will admit to it freely and happily!

Sounds to me like you have problems of your own to admit to!LMAO
 
>Slight difference between a wolf track
>and a coyote track. And
>every suspected wolf kill that
>I know of has someone
>from F&G or has the
>gov trapper come check it
>out. I'm an avid "Canadian"
>wolf in the US hater
>and always will be and
>will admit to it freely
>and happily!
>
>Sounds to me like you have
>problems of your own to
>admit to!LMAO


You need to read Neidermeyer's book to understand what really happens on the wolf kill claims.
 
So your telling me that these wolves could not stroll down from Canada?? I know its hundreds of thousands of miles away. Yep they were here before you and I. Carter Niemeyer was a government trapper as well, read his book and maybe even go listen to him. He is neither pro wolf or anti wolf. He speaks the truth no matter how much you disagree with it. The real funny thing here is you guys want to kill them all and when that happens guess what the only way you will ever kill one again is via SSS, well some are still doing that. Yes they need to be managed, but let the IDFG do an honest and unbiased job of it. I guess this is a case of agree to disagree. But at least I don't have blinders on and see the whole picture.

Chuck in Boise
 
No, I'll tell you it's documented FACT, that they put Canadian wolves in a vehicle of some sort and hauled them to the USA and dropped them off. Not an endangered species!

As far as MR. Niemeyer is concerned, I'm sure it's an interesting read, but does not take away the fact that every possible wolf kill that I know of and was reported, is checked out by either the F&G or the local gov trapper. From there it's up to them to decide one way or the other.
 
Ok why doesn't anyone post pictures of the native Idaho wolf?? a wolf is a wolf, they all eat the same stuff and hunt the same way. Next your going to tell me there are at least 2000 wolves in Idaho and they weigh 150-200lbs. I highly doubt that a IDFG officer is going to take the time to disect the dead animal to get to the bottom of what really killed it. Ranchers have no documentation of each kill and what really killed it. Its just hear say. But be my guest and go to town on the wolves and see what happens.

Chuck in Boise
 
Native Idaho wolves are probably not posted because there is no such thing as a native Idaho wolf, I'd guess. Sounds to me like you have a hard on for ranchers for some reason!
 
As I am against any hornhunting poacher/SSS on public land. Ya I am against welfare ranchers paying pennies on the dollar to lease the public lands and then have their stock trash it. If they can't make a living on their own property...then boo whoo cry me a river. You guys sure know how to avoid the real message here. Its not about wolves its about your greed, these elk and deer do not belong to just the hunters. Why not post the facts, oh because you have none. You guys keep on listening to idiots like Tony Mayer and Ron Gillette and Rex Rammell and they will lead you right off a cliff. When they are relisted and you guys are out doing your SSS thing and get caught I hope its a felony and you lose all your fishing and hunting rights in Idaho for life. Drink up girls

Chuck in Boise
 
>As far as MR. Niemeyer is
>concerned, I'm sure it's an
>interesting read, but does not
>take away the fact that
>every possible wolf kill that
>I know of and was
>reported, is checked out by
>either the F&G or the
>local gov trapper. From there
>it's up to them to
>decide one way or the
>other.

Read the book to understand what is really happening in regards to wolf killed livestock. Ranchers like to claim wolf kill for the money. Politicians cause problems for wildlife professionals who don't agree that every kill was by a wolf.
 
Leet has made the most sense here so far when he said, "Piss on the feds it should not be a political question but it seems it always will be."

I agree that there is some concern about us going overboard on the wolf killing. Only because of the politics involved. There are alot of people out there looking for any chance at all to shut it down.

Make no mistake, I am anti wolf.

"Suck it, terrorists," -Keith Stone
 
There was a recent court case in which the feds backed ID and MT in their wolf management strategies. It also quoted the feds as not going to interefere until wolf populations dropped below 100 (yes, ONE HUNDRED) wolves per state... I think and hope that wolf hunting is here to stay!

As far as Chuck in Boise goes... you have no idea how rental rates are figured out by the feds who lease grazing rights, and you have no idea of the grazing standards required on public land... Most ranchers can't make a living on their home range because of development and they want to keep their utilization rates down. By paying for the AUM's they take off of public land they help provide a lot of $$$ to the governing agencies. Rangeland management and ecology is at an all time high and is extremely science based right now. 9 out of 10 ranchers I know have a really good understanding of how plant ecology works in relation to defoliation from grazing, and 100% of them do not want to graze themselves out of a job.

Mike
 
I am happy to see that IDFG is going to raise the wolf permits to 5 for hunters and 5 for trappers. I am curious about these numbers that IDFG speak of. Before hunting season started IDFG claim the numbers were down to 746 and as per IDFG harvest numbers so far its at 346. So that leaves a grand total of 400 wolves left and these morons are going to increase the number of tags. So if in fact the world does not end on 12-21-2012, then come 01-01-2013 the feds will take notice and step in and pull all control away from Idaho and never to be returned.
As far as grazing rights go, I fully understand it Mike and consider the damage that cattle and sheep do to public lands a crime. No wonder Idaho is an Oxymoron state.
Also the feds will step in once the breeding pair drop below 10, that means that all 10 breading pair must have pups that survive the year. At this rate its not gonna happen and the feds will step in, you can count on it just like the gas prices are going to keep going up.

Chuck in Boise
 
The plan is to keep Idaho at 100 wolves,so we have along way to go to reach that goal. From what ive seen there is no way to keep an exact count on every wolf,and come this spring after the females start having pups the population will start to increase. I'm not seeing any decline in the population,and am in favor of increasing tag amounts in over populated zones!
 
The feds absolutely need to let the state manage the wolf population at the agreed levels, that were set at the beginning of this wreck. And a wreck it is.

Chuck, what do you pay to play on public land?

Also kind of ironic, that I run my livestock with in spitting distance of YNP and have not had one wolf kill claim since this wreck began, but I have had the local sheriff out on numerous occasions pulling bullets or arrows from my livestock, done by some of the fine sportsmen of this state!!
 
Chuck, where are you from? Since my Grandfather walked to Idaho from Nebraska I just have a feeling your Grandfather didn't walk to Idaho. But America is a free country, right? Just asking.
 
Destroyer am sure you have heard about all the cattle that have been killed lately, stupid people just shooting them to shoot them. The numbers I post are right from IDFG, so if they are posting those numbers then the feds are also seeing those numbers, its already been said that if the breeding pair drops below 10 the feds take over control because IDFG couldn't do it properly. I have said many times that I too am a big game hunter and as a youth I trapped. All the wildlife needs to be managed because humans have taken that away from mother nature. But remember just as I don't speak for you, you don't speak for me and I just happen to like wolves and grizzly bears. I would never consider hunting them because I only hunt for food on the table. I consider myself neither on the left or the right, I am in the middle and its amazing how many people are in the middle and won't say so because they don't like being called names and such. 2 years ago I witnessed SSS at work and yes I did report it and would do so again, whether its a wolf or a deer or elk. There are reasons the hunting is going to crap here in Idaho and its not all because of the wolf. But as I have said before you guys want them all dead and I don't and I am not going to change your mind and your not going to change my mind.

Chuck in Boise
 
Chuck,

How exactly do you understand grazing? What are your qualifications on it? Obviously I haven't witnessed or personally seen some of the areas you are talking about (maybe I have and just don't know it), and will admit that overgrazing does occur but very rarely is it allowed to happen on public land. Just because the grass is clipped and you see cow tracks doesn't mean its overgrazed. I'm in charge of roughly 300K acres of grazing leases in WA state and can tell you that you have no idea what you are talking about. Simply saying; "I understand the issue" isn't going to cut it. You are quite ignorant...

If you want to witness some quality operations, check out the spring cove ranch out of Bliss, ID. Or the silvercreek ranch out of salmon, went to school with kids from both families, and can point you to countless other ranchers that are quality stewards of the land. You can go back to your Jon Marvel western watersheds campfire now...

Mike
 
You know what Michael unlike so many I choose to make up my own mind and base my decisions on what I have read on both sides and what I have seen. I can personally tell you I have seen some real lazy ranchers that have left dead calves in corrals for weeks on end and have wittnessed a rancher letting his cattle graze in a world reknowned fly fishing stream and that part of the stream has never been the same.
I could go on and on, but why???
If you want to step into my shoes then hop on board a king crab boat up in the berring sea.
who is Jon Marvel??? I don't buy into any of these conservation groups, including RMEF or SWF, its all a sham trying to get people to believe their BS and take your money.
I base my opinions on what I have seen with my own two eyes.

Chuck in Boise
 
My second cousin runs a crab boat up there.

Was it illegal for the rancher to let his cattle graze in the world renowned fly fishing stream?

Chuck, do you eat beef? If you took away public land, and beef was only produced on private land, do you have any idea what a burger would cost you? I'm guessing we wouldn't be able to afford it. Maybe you could, since you're a crab fisherman. There is no doubt that cattle do some damage, especially in the hands of unknowing management. But, under proper management, cattle do a lot more good than bad.

"Suck it, terrorists," -Keith Stone
 
Are crabs considered a public resource? Are crabs not a renewable resource? What happens if you over harvest, does it not take proper management, or is the harvest not managed? What do you pay for the right to harvest crabs?


No wonder you like wolves and bears, they don't effect your bottom line, they're just critters to take pictures of I guess. And I'll call BS on the riparion area not being able to heal it's self.
 
>Chuck, do you eat beef? If
>you took away public land,
>and beef was only produced
>on private land, do you
>have any idea what a
>burger would cost you? I'm
>guessing we wouldn't be able
>to afford it.

Only 3% to 5% of beef production is from public ground. Removing it would only be a little bump in the price of beef.

The US public would be better off without public grazing. The GAO reports that a minimum of $120 million is lost each year running public grazing programs. It is not a surprise considering the AUM cost is $1.35 to feed a cow and a calf.
 
Brymoore,

Where are you getting the $1.35/AUM fee? We are charging $9.72/AUM as a state agency... And that is $2 under the 5 year average cost of private pasture to help with fence and water maintenance. I know that USFS and BLM are cheaper but I don't think they are THAT cheap.

You are correct that the majority of beef production is from feedlots, but as Idabow said, under proper management cattle do more good than harm. With proper grazing you have: reduced invasive weed populations, decreased wild fire severity and risk, inhibition of vegetation monocultures, reduction of "wolfy" material and old biomass that can choke out current years growth (a lot of times you'll see elk grazing in the spring where cattle have been in the fall... makes it much easier to get at the fresh green sprouts), increase in plant vigor and health (dependent upon species). I could go on and on... When you have people who depend on the land for their livelihood, you make stewards out of them and they have incentive to take care of it.

I'll be the first to admit there are ranchers out there who have no business grazing native rangeland. But in my opinion they are few and far between, and the pros vs. cons of public land grazing is far in favor of continuing the practice.

Chuck in Boise, first off I don't base my opinion on crab boat fishing from the discovery channel and won't tell you how to do your job because I know nothing about it.

I agree with Destroyer in that riparian areas are super resilient and do come back much quicker with appropriate management. Off-site water, riparian pastures, hardened crossings, herding...etc are all tools that can be used to help PROPERLY graze riparian areas. You make a change in management there and I guarantee you will see results in 10 years.

Sorry for the thread jack!

Mike
 
Not once have I not said wolves along with all the other wildlife need to be managed, but everyone here wants to kill them all off, they have every right to be here. But pull your heads out because if the IDFG does not do its job, which they have not in the past, then you know whats going to happen the feds will step in and relist the wolves and Idaho will never get the chance to manage them again. Then just maybe you will have the 2000+ wolves that all the anti's are claiming are here. So in the next 5-10 years everyone who hunts here is going to be hunting other states because there are no deer and elk left. I do eat beef, but only once in a while. Still got plenty of deer meat in the freezer. I am glad you all can afford to hunt Montana, Wyoming, Utah, Colorado and Airazona. I know I can't, I know Oregon's mule deer hunting sucks, am not sure about Washington. As far as that farmer that let his cattle into the stream, well in fact part of what he let happen was illegal as the cattle were grzing inside a BLM campground and after I called the Twin Falls BLM office and raised hell they had a nice chat with that rancher and the stream is still not back to normal.

Chuck in Boise
 
SOLUTION TO WOLF PROBLEM----LET'S CATCH 20 BREEDING PAIRS AND A TOTAL OF 200 WOLVES AND SPRAY PAINT THEM ORANGE AND RADIO COLLAR EVERYONE OF THEM AND THEN LET THEM GO....THATS DOUBLE THE AMOUNT REQUIRED....THEN WE WILL REMOVE THE REMAINING 2,000 WOLVES....THE FIX IS REALLY VERY SIMPLE.....THE IDAHO F&G AND THE FEDS ALWAYS UNDER COUNT THE WOLVES AND OVER COUNT THE UNGULATES

MEETING ALL PROJECTED LEVELS MY A$$...MAKES ME WANT TO VOMIT !!!

2 CENTS
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-23-12 AT 10:39PM (MST)[p]Like you said we'll have to agree to disagree, Canadian wolves do not have a right to be here!!
 
Chucks in Boise are also non-native, so by using your argument, you should leave.

"Suck it, terrorists," -Keith Stone
 
Unless your native american "Indian" then Idabow your non native too, so you too should leave.
Bet you even support the bill to make hunting a constituional right in Idaho.

Chuck in Boise
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-24-12 AT 10:40AM (MST)[p]I'm not the one using the "native this/non-native that" argument.

If you that is your belief, then how do you justify yourself being here?

http://www.planetjh.com/news/A_108203.aspx I just saw this on the general forum, these are chucks people, be sure to read the comments.

"Suck it, terrorists," -Keith Stone
 
UNGULATES ARE WHATS FOR DINNER !! THATS WHY FOR THE LAST 75 YEARS WE HAVE BEEN GROWING THE UNGULATE HERDS. ( FOOD SOURCE )

VERY RARE TO SEE A COMMENT SAYING ( KILL ALL THE WOLVES ) MOST FOLKS BELIEVE THAT THE WOLVES NEEDS TO BE MANAGED AND THE POPULATION IS HIGHER THAN IS BEING STATED. ALSO FOLKS ARE UPSET WITH THE LOSS AND DAMAGE THAT HAS BEEN DONE TO OUR UNGUALTE POPULATION BY THE WOLF.

THE MOOSE IN NORTHERN IDAHO ARE IN BIG TROUBLE. DIRECTLY RELATED TO THE WOLF....

HOW CAN ANYONE BELIEVE THE COUNT ON WOLVES IN IDAHO IS ACCURATE WHEN THE F&G DOES NOT COUNT EVERY WOLF THEY SEE. THEY COUNT 1 OUT OF 4......HOWEVER ON THE UNGULATES IT'S THE OPPOSITE ...SEE 1 DEER AND ADD 3 THAT ARE HIDING IN THE BUSHES.

WHAT WAS HERE FIRST THE CHICKEN OR THE EGG ( LOL )
 
Well then if IDFG is not getting an accurate count on wolves then they sure as hell are not getting an accurate count on elk, deer and moose. 90% of the people advocate killing all the wolves on here, I have stated many times and will continue to do so, all wildlife have to be managed. But with IDFG new allotment of tags for wolves this next year I can assure you the feds will have them in the cross hairs to relist them and you know what you are all screwed because the only way you will ever kill one is via SSS. Its also nice to know that the 90% on here are all biologist and animal experts. We all know that a deer,elk or moose would never ever change their feeding habits, move to a different terrain, they will continue to feed along side the road. No one here wants to address all the other issues facing the big game herd as its all the wolves killing them all and killing for fun. Give me a break. Redneck is as Redneck does I guess. Smoke a pack a day.

Chuck in Boise
 
Chuck you're wrong, I'd never SSS, I'll call the gov trapper an tell him to get the sorry POS off of my place!!


One pack ain't(my best redneck impression) a bad enough habit, lets smoke 2!
 
CHUCK NEEDS HIS HEAD EXAMINED, WHAT A QUACK !!!!! HIS TYPE ARE THE REASON THIS COUNTRY IS IN A DOWNWARD SPIRAL.

I DON'T SEE VERY MANY FOLKS POSTING ((((( KILL THEM ALL )))))

MOST BELIEVE THEY NEED TO BE MANAGED....

THE REASON FOR THE INCREASE IN TAGS IS BECAUSE THERE ARE MORE WOLVES.

THE F&G ARE IN SHOCK RIGHT NOW AT THE AMOUNT OF WOLVES THAT HAVE BEEN EXPOSED UP IN THE NORTHERN PART OF THE STATE.

PICK THE NUMBER , SPRAY PAINT THEM ORANGE AND LETS GET RID OF THE REST.

WHAT'S A GOOD NUMBER CHUCK ?????
 
Looks like the official harvest as of March 23rd is 368. Would'nt it be reasonable to beleive that with the vast area and terrain that Idaho has that we haven't even scratched the surface as far as population goes! I'm guessing that I.F.G. has no clue on how many there are,but my thought there is between 3-4,000. This was our first wolf season,and it was trial and error,and i totally agree with I.F.G. raising the quoatas for 2012-2013.And i too haven't seen to many folks saying they should be exterminated,and that would be totaly impossible anyway.
 
WE HAVE AT LEAST DOUBLE AND MAYBE TRIPLE THE AMOUNT WOLVES THEY SAY THERE ARE IN IDAHO. IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE THIS YOUR PART OF THE PROBLEM.

THE SAME CAN BE SAID FOR WYOMING AND MONTANA

MY GOD MAN !! THEY HAVE WOLVES BREEDING IN COLORADO AND THEY DON'T WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE IT....
 
Say what you will about me, at least I can make up my own mind and am not a lemming about to run off a cliff. So then its safe to say if IDFG does not have a clue about wolf numbers then the same can be said for deer, elk and moose.
If there are as many wolves as you guys claim then I should be able to drive up to Atlanta and see several hundred wolves....right.
IDFG is not even listening to their own biologist that are in charge of the wolves. I guess I need to go back and copy and paste all the people's posts that say kill them all. But then this is going no where. Good luck drawing tags in other states as Idaho is going to hell in a hand bag. Once again human greed takes the cake.

Chuck in Boise
 
Don't see where greed has anything to do with this dicussion. And wolves are one of the major reasons if Idaho is going to hell in any form.
 
So, according to Chuck in Boise, anyone who doesn't agree with him is a sheep, incapable of making their own decisions?

Also Chuck, please explain how we are going to eradicate these wolves. According to your math, there were 746 wolves, and we harvested 346, leaving 400 wolves. (I know these aren't accurate numbers, but they are Chuck's). Then, you assume that next year, there will still be 400 wolves and with the increased quotas and such, that by Jan 1, 2013, the feds are going to realize that we have less than 100 wolves and/or 10 breeding pairs. The feds will take over and Idaho is doomed. Right? Thats pretty much what you said.

Things you should consider:

1. IF there were only 400 wolves left, how many breeding pairs are there? How many pups will be alive next year? Alot, because now that we killed off half of the population, there is much more game left to raise the pups.

2. As the number of wolves decreases, so will the number of wolves harvested. Due to decreased wolf density, hunter wolf interactions will decrease.

3. Yes, the tag #'s increased, but what about the quotas? Its not like there is going to be a free for all on the wolves. There are still rules, you know.

4. Look at the coyote. There is no season, no tags, no quotas. You can even spotlight them. There are more coyotes than ever. They seem to be doing just fine. And coyotes don't have the reputation of being so cunning and smart as the wolves do.

5. 10 pairs. 10 breeding pairs. That's 20 wolves. Dworshak-Elk City and the Panhandle wolf zones have 70 or more wolves harvested each. Probably any one of the wolf zones can have 10 breeding pairs. Probably each of the zones have that many. A single pack usually has one breeding pair and is made up of 6-7 wolves. Now lets use our math. That coud be 10 packs of about 7 wolves and one breeding pair. That is only what we've harvested, in ONE zone.

6. If your math is correct and there are 400 wolves left at the end of this season. That would be approximately 57 packs of 7 wolves each, with one breeding pair and about 256 pups this year. Using figures from wolf sites: 6-7 wolves per pack, 3-6 pups per litter(avg 4.5). That means we will barely make a dent in the population come next fall.

According to what you are saying, by Jan 1st of 2013, we will have already dropped below the 100 wolves and/or 10 breeding pairs. Some biologists will have verified these numbers somehow. AND the feds will be standing there on the 1st, waiting to take over?

Again, I ask, Chuck, please explain how this is going to happen. Or anyone for that matter.

"Suck it, terrorists," -Keith Stone
 
New tag quotas are going to have little to no effect on harvest. You can count the number of people who tagged out on one hand. These are the only people effected by an increase in tags allowed. Five more tags each for those five guys would only be 25 more wolves harvested. That is if they could acctualy fill those tags.
Using the fraudulant number of 756 will be the death of fish & game. If they can't provide the science for a more realistic count, they will cause thier own demise, & ours.
People who feel we can have the wolf without managing them have never worn out a pair of boots in wolf country. It is sad to see the destructive nature of the wolf, They must be managed.
 
Idabow you assume that every single wolf pup will survive, I guess you don't do your homework like you seem to think you do. For 2 years running in yellowstone there were no wolf pups that survived, they all died from either parvo or distempter. The number of wolves are down in yellowstone and no hunting is allowed there. Between now and the end of the season how many females that are with pups are going to be killed.
Again you guys are painting me as a pro wolf person, I am right down the middle and YES THE WOLVES NEED TO BE MANAGED, but it seems that most of the over zealous hunters would love to kill them all. I suppose your also going to tell me jackrabbits are outta control also???? How many people on here went to the wolf management meeting in Boise??? I did. I sat there and listen to all the lies that IDFG were spewing. Kill em all I don't care, I really wished you guys would.

Chuck in Boise
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-27-12 AT 01:19AM (MST)[p]Chuck, you are abolutely right, I did not account for natural mortality. Just like you didn't account for pups being born in your post. My post was purely hypothetical. And if that's your only argument, I'm ok with that.

My response to the pups in YNP is as follows: There is no hunting, you are absolutely right, there is no management. Its funny you mentioned the jackrabbits. There used to be jackrabbit population booms every so many years. And if you understand the natural cycles of animals it makes sense. If you let animals go unmanaged, the population will rise and fall in a cycle, all animals do. If you have animals in an environment with a healthy food supply and little to no predation, the population will rise, it rises too much, the animals will eat themselves out of house and home. Or disease will spread very quickly through a high concentration of animals. This is how nature manages the population. Sounds like what you just described in Yellowstone.

As far as us "painting me(you) as a pro wolf person," thats because you said, "I just happen to like wolves and grizzly bears."

If you want us to have wolves thats great, they surely aren't going to disappear because of us hunting them. The only way to get rid of them all would be a huge coordinated effort, statewide of hunting, trapping, ariel gunning, and poisoning.

We also agreed with you that the F&G miscounts both wolves and ungulates.

You still haven't told us how they are going to disappear. I would like to know.

I do my own research, nobody makes up my mind for me.

I didn't go the the wolf management meeting in Boise, I didn't even know there was one. I wish someone would have posted about it. If I had known I would have gone.

"Suck it, terrorists," -Keith Stone
 
> So then its safe
>to say if IDFG does
>not have a clue about
>wolf numbers then the same
>can be said for deer,
>elk and moose.



that is exactly what were saying chuck. all of their counts are bs is what everyone is saying. the IDFG has their own double standard in their counting method of wolves versus ungulates. and that is why people are so touchy and pissed off about the wolf numbers. that right there is one of the top 5 reasons people in this state are so anti-wolf. think about it. wolves roam in packs and more solitary groups, how in the world can they think their counts are accurate on such elusive predators. atleast with ungulates they "herd" up, thus making the counts easier. but the dum a$$ IDFG still uses the "i see 100 elk in that sage flat herded up, I bet there is 300 more, each solitary, hiding in the sage behind the herd." here is some ground breaking news for them, no their isn't. they "herd" up thus making it feasible to get accurate counts if they would pull their heads out. BUT with wolves, it's well we only saw 25 today, so their's probably only 26 in the area we might have missed one. wrong. they saw 25 that day, but the wolf is more solitary, elusive and smarter, and so realistically they missed a whole lot more than that. see the double standard? THAT IS ONE OF THE TOP REASONS PEOPLE IN THIS STATE HATE WOLVES AND THE IDFG
 
At 3-21-2012 meeting at IDFG headquarter in Boise,big game biologist Jon Rachael was ask how many wolves have been killed that wore a radio collar, he didn't know the answer. How can you not know the answer???
Just like if you ask anyone at IDFG if there are any grizzlies in Central Idaho, they will say NO.
I think all the sportsmen and women should be upset at the lack of management skills that IDFG seems to show, they are mismanging all the wildlife in Idaho.
We cannot say for sure how many pups are born and how many will survive. I do not know how many tags were sold so far, we only see the numbers that IDFG post, are they including what WS kill??
Lets not kid outselves, but SSS is still going on, just like people are still poaching deer and elk.
In 2010 the unit I was hunting, according to the check station had the best harvest numbers they had seen in a long time, but you go look at the harvest data and it was down.
Wolves have been erradicated before, what makes anyone think it cannot happen again???
So what if I like grizzly bears and wolves, if that makes me a pro wolf person then I guess you have labeled me, but don't forget the numerous times I have stated that all the wildlife in Idaho need to be managed. The last thing anyone who enjoys hunting deer and elk or moose is to have IDFG fail to do their job ane have the feds relist the wolves. This is a dead horse and its time to stop beating it. So you all talk among yourselves.

Chuck in Boise
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-27-12 AT 05:57PM (MST)[p]THE ALPHA MALE AND FEMALE ARE NOT THE ONLY BREEDERS IN THE PACK. THE FEMALE IN HEAT ALWAYS GETS COVERED. I KNOW THIS IS NOT IN THE YELLOWSTONE DOCUMENTARY BUT IT'S A FACT. KINDA LIKE THE ONLY UNGULATES KILLED ARE THE SICK AND OLD OR YOUNG...THE WOLF KILLS WHATEVER HE WANTS AND THEY BREED LIKE RABBITS.
 
>Ok why doesn't anyone post pictures
>of the native Idaho wolf??
> a wolf is a
>wolf, they all eat the
>same stuff and hunt the
>same way. Next your
>going to tell me there
>are at least 2000 wolves
>in Idaho and they weigh
>150-200lbs. I highly doubt
>that a IDFG officer is
>going to take the time
>to disect the dead animal
>to get to the bottom
>of what really killed it.
> Ranchers have no documentation
>of each kill and what
>really killed it. Its
>just hear say. But
>be my guest and go
>to town on the wolves
>and see what happens.
>
>Chuck in Boise


Go visit the Museum of Idaho in idaho falls. They have a "native Idaho" wolf mounted there. It is clearly bigger than a coyote but not near as big as the introduced canadian grey. I would have no issue with wolves naturally migrating here from canada, but introducing a species that wasn't here and allowing it to wreak havoc on our herds is wrong.

and mule204, love the idea of painting the wolves we need to keep. I am a painter by profession, I will volunteer to do the painting :)
 
That's common sense, MULEY204, but for the simplicity of the argument, I was using the numbers from the wolf lover sites. So if you take into account what really happens, you can see how the numbers can really take off.

"Suck it, terrorists," -Keith Stone
 

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