New Mexico Antelope Assignment LTR

mickeyelk

mickeyelk

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Got my New Mexico antelope hunt assignment yesterday. I've been assigned to unit 32 and the ranch name of Double V. Anyone hunt this unit before? (Looks like theres a whole boat load of people hunting it.) Looked on line to get reservations for a hotel in the area but no rooms available in Fort Sumner. Any ideas, Santa Rosa or Roswell? Thanks Kerry
 
mickeyelk

is that ranch near Elida?? not sure if I remembered I saw the sign on hwy 70??

camp at the ranch?? Roswell is might be the choice to sleep at hotel.

good luck

vinihunt
 
I will be guiding hunters in the same area. Best bet for hotels is Roswell. That is about an hours drive. There is also a few hotels in Vaughn and it is a bout an hours drive as well. I think you would rather stay in Roswell.
 
Roswell would be your best bet. The double v is a great ranch for antelope. If you have a spare 24 million you can buy it while your there, it is for sale. Good luck, should be a great hunt.
 
I was assigned to ranch #18740 Escondida Land & Cattle near Deming. Anyone know anything about this ranch?
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-25-07 AT 10:55AM (MST)[p]Big10AZ

I hunted that ranch(Escondida Land & Cattle) back in 03 for the rifle hunt. Tagged out opening day, first light, scored in the mid 70's on the north west part of the ranch. Ranch had plenty of lopes back then, some lopes on it now, not like it used to be. Still a good ranch to get assigned to. Get out there and scout it if you can. need more info let me know.



pinemesa
 
Mickeyelk, I just found out that I got assigned to the Double V as well. I don't know much about the area yet. I've heard there should be lots of goats, I just don't know much about the trophy potential??? I'm in Prescott Az so it's not like I can get in much scouting.
 
HuntHo, If it is the Martinez Ranch in NE NM my son drew a youth tag there a few years ago. I was furious after the hunt and Martinez could barely look me in the face after what he had done to me and my boy! He allowed all the guided hunters freedom to drive around the ranch on the roads while he personally dropped my son and I off on foot in a corner with few antelope! By the time we caught on to what was going on almost all the bucks had been picked through.

The guided hunters shot some pretty decent bucks the year I hunted but if it gets that much pressure I don't see how many bucks could survive! They hammered the heck out of them! If you would like to chat email me at [email protected]state. I would make sure you arrive early to scout and make sure all the details are worked out prior to opening day or you may get screwed!
 
jims, similar thing happened to me in north east NM a couple years ago. Rancher named Perry Dixon told us that he and his guided hunters would hunt one area and we had to hunt in a different area. The area he put us in had plenty of antelope, but not much size. Not sure, but I'd guess that sort of thing happens all the time! I'll be prepared for it this year. I'm bringing a copy of the regs which state that public hunters shall be granted free and unrestricted access to the entire ranch. I'll also be bringing phone numbers for the local game wardens to call in the event of a problem.
 
Bulzeye: Have you called the ranch yet? With that amount of tags there has to be plenty of antelope. It looks as though he also has property on the other side of the highway in a different unit. I'll be calling and getting the warden name just in case I need it. It shows in the ANT regulation that the ranch has 12 tags. Last year I hunted a ranch that had one tag and the owner said she sold the two others that they gave to her. So I wonder how many tags there will be total? I'm still trying to find somebody who hunted it to see what they experienced. I've heard all the rumors but haven't been exposed to it as yet with problem ranches. Later
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-02-07 AT 09:48PM (MST)[p]NE NM should be good for horns this year. I anticipate some really big bucks being taken. Public hunters are to be given equal access to the ranch, and you guys make sure that any underhandedness is reported to the Game Department. Having said that I know of many landowners that offer their public hunters lodging and the meat cooler, some guiding (basically the full service), Many others try to coordinate hunts with public and private hunters so that folks aren't stepping on each other's toes. My only point is that if you arrive to find that the landowner has a plan already, don't just assume he's trying to screw you. Many times a public hunter decides he's going to hunt where the private hunter goes, and all that ends up happening is he's following the other guy around screwing up everyones hunt.

Having said that, It does happen (rancher's favoring the paying customers), and I don't tolerate it on my district. If the department isn't notified it makes it hard for us to do anything about it or keep it from happening to others in the future. We have pulled landowner tags entirely from ranches that continue to be reported for that type of thing.

FYI- The ratio of public to private tags a landowner gets depends on the ratio of private to public acres. It'd be hard to guess how many hunters may be there based on the number of Public tags.

ALSO- I know the Roswell and Raton Offices are open for the weekends during the Antelope hunts (Raton Office 1505-445-2311) and the nearest warden can most quickly be reached by calling the office and having them catch us on the radio.

Good Luck.

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I would definitely keep unrestricted and equal access in mind while on your hunts! I would also have the local game warden and office numbers with you on the trip!

From what I understand the rancher MUST let the public hunters scout on their property 2 days in advance of the season. I would think this would be the very best way to get to know the ranch, access pts, location of bucks, and concentrations of antelope!

Somehow the rancher talked me into having him drop my son and I off in what turned out to be an "antelope void" corner of his ranch. My son had to attend school prior to the hunt so there was no way we could get there early to scout. I blame myself as much as anyone for not taking him out of school but didn't think it would be necessary! I phoned the landowner and took his word when we arrived that we weren't going to be screwed....which is what happened! I was upset for my son as much as anyone because it left a really crummy impression for what kind of hunts New Mexico offers! I've taken him on several private ranch hunts in Wyo where we merely asked permission or payed a trespass fee and have never had 1 bad experience!

Make sure you do your homework and arrive early! I'm sure what happened to my son is pretty common in New Mexico and I wish they would change the system to something like Wyoming! If you ask me NM antelope rifle hunts are designed with outfitters and ranchers in mind and the public hunters are totally screwed!
 
Jims, I do have to disagre with you- I wouldn't call that kind of thing common and we work hard ot keep it from happening. Also antelope country in NM is mostly private with the public land more often then not landlocked and inexcessable without some kind of agreement with a landowner. Our system (and maybe there are better) is pretty simple and effective way to get public hunters an oportunity to hunt antelope on private land. Yes the rancher makes money- but thank god for that, ranchers work to improve conditions for speedgoats instead of just killing them or running them off. The antelope herds are much better off because of it.

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The information you can get can be great when hunting out of state but you would have to be a fool not to at least scout the area once before you arrive or at least go to the unit early and learn the area a little.Its burnt me going in blind once from there on its been on my high priority list to at least drive the unit learning what it looks like and learning the unit a bit it seems to always help once your hunt opens yes it could be very expensive with fuel cost scouting but in my mind well worth the effort.
 
I have to disagree about the public land in NM deal. The central and western 1/2 of NM has a lot of public land. There also is a lot of state land on the east side.

With the current NM rifle system it is impossible to research an area prior to applying and drawing a tag because the hunter has no idea which ranch he will be "assigned" and what caliber bucks are available. If the hunter is assigned a crummy ranch he is out of luck. From the ranch lists I've looked at many of the ranches in the program are under 10,000 acres in size which is not very big! I can cover 2,000 to 10,000 in part of a day! You can be re-assigned ranches after opening day but it is hard to say where and what kind of ranch will be re-assigned!

I really enjoy having the flexibility of being able to draw a unit that I have researched! It is also great having the flexibility (once a tag is drawn) of hiring a guide, hunting public, or knocking on a few doors and getting permission and getting to know landowners before my hunt starts. It seems mighty crazy to me to apply for a NM rifle antelope tag without knowing where the heck I'll be hunting! It's like closing your eyes and hoping for the best!

One thing I have also questioned is how public hunters are "assigned" ranches? It doesn't sound like it is a draw and it seems like it would be very easy for some "shadey" things to happen when hunters are "assigned" ranches. It seems to me that a lot of problems would be solved if hunters were allowed to apply for particular ranches (that they researched) rather than being "assigned"? I know I would be a lot happier applying for a public tag for a particular ranch rather than going into the drawing so blind! At least with the CWMU and RFW programs in UT and CO a hunter knows which ranch he will be hunting! Legistically this may be a nightmare but something definitely needs to be changed!

I know if I was a NM resident I would complain about the system and I'm really amazed the ranchers and outfitters can get away with this! On the outside the present system sounds great but the public average Joe hunter is once again getting screwed!

On the bright side NM produces some of the best antelope bucks in the country and public hunters are allowed access to private land for the price of a license. As you can probably tell my son's experience really fired me up and this is a heated subject with me!
 
As a NM resident I think the antelope system is great for the public hunter. If it is as bad as you guys say it is then the tags would be an easy draw. I have put in for ten years and have yet to draw a tag. I know that when I do draw I will have a chance at respectible goat. As for drawing a tag and being assigned a ranch. What more could the public hunter ask for. A chance to unt antelope on private land through a public draw. If the antelope are not there on day one, call the game and fish officer and he will send you to a ranch that the antelope are there.

jims,

I have been on the martinez ranch twice. I lived in Mosquero for a year and a half. He has some fantastic antelope hunting on his property and it sounds to me like he was not allowing you his entire ranch. If you know the laws dealing with antelope hunting you would have known that you and your son would have free and equal access to the ranch, just like the private tags that Mr. Martinez sold. If anyone is getting shafted it would be the guys who buy the high dollar access fee to private land and have to share that private land with a public draw hunter because the rancher has 200 acres of public that he leases. Maybe public draw hunters should have to hunt only the public land on there assigned ranches since they drew a public draw tag. That would really benefit the ranchers and outfitters, instead of the public hunters. I vote to leave the system alone, and hopefully I will draw a tag one of these years and have a chance at a nice buck antelope. Know the rules and NM has a wonderful opportunity to hunt antelope.
 
Ichcguide, what if after 10+ years of waiting you get assigned a 2,000 acre ranch or unit with only mediocre antelope! What if the only other ranch in the immediate area is another 2,000 acre ranch with few antelope? You are screwed! The season is only 2 or 3 days and if you don't know which ranch you will be assigned or change to another one you are unfamiliar with you are at a definite disadvantage over the guided hunters!

From the ranch lists I've seen a majority of the ranches in the program are only a few thousand acres which can be covered in little to no time at all! If you are assigned one of the handful of super ranches in the program you have won the lotto and ought to have a great hunt! I hope after all these years of waiting that you aren't assigned a crummy ranch and you have a good hunt!

The Martinez guy (won't mention names) told me and my son when we arrived that all hunters would be dropped off and hiking. There would be no driving allowed on the ranch. The guy wouldn't allow me to drive my truck and personally dropped my son and I off to walk in a crummy corner of the ranch all morning! I was super upset when we finally hiked to where there were antelope and the guided hunters were running up and down the roads and were hardly spending any time hiking! When we finally were picked up around noon we went back to the ranch house and all the guided hunters had filled their tags (some were pretty good bucks). We saw 5 antelope in all the miles we hiked. Does that sound fair to you? When I finally ran into the guy that dropped us off he wouldn't even look me in the eye or talk to me because I know he felt guilty for what he did to my son! The only people left to fill their tags in the afternoon was my son and another girl that had a public tag. My son and the girl were the only ones on the ranch that year that had public tags. I wonder which corner he sent the other girl?

I'm not exactly sure why you are stating that NM system is great for the public hunter when you haven't drawn a tag and you have no idea what ranch you will be hunting once you do draw! On the outside the present system "sounds" good but if I was a NM resident I would be complaining!

If it were me I would much rather apply for a rifle unit that I knew had super bucks available on public land! I would have the option of scout the unit hard myself prior to the hunt, knock on a few ranch doors and gain permission, or hire a guide. How it now sits public hunters have to apply for a group of units and have no idea where they'll be hunting! Just doesn't make any sense to me!

If this is such a great system why doesn't the NMG&F offer elk and deer tags this way as well! NM rifle antelope tags are the only tags in the entire US that are done this way and I really think it is a screwy system! It is pretty obvious that the outfitters, ranchers, and guides in NM like the system but the public hunters?

As you can probably tell I still have fire flaming out my nose and ears and it has been a couple years since my sons hunt!
 
jims,

I have guided antelope hunts for the past few years and know the draw system very well. Fortunately we lease ranches that only have private land, with absolutely no public land. If you want to get the sour taste out of your mouth then book a hunt with us and you will see antelope that have a chance of going in the book. No public hunters to mess with or worry about. If you have enough money then buy all our tags come scout all you want and kill the exact goat that you want.


I will be glad just to have the opportunity to hunt antelope in New Mexico no matter what ranch I am assigned. I think that without scouting hard that I can kill a ecent representation of the animal in the very short time period that the G&F allows. I have a feeling that if New Mexico changed there system to match those other states that the quality that New Mexico has to offer would deminish.

I am sorry for your bad experience, but do not let one bad apple spoil the whole pie. Just be thankful you had the opportunity to spend a weekend hunting with your son. There are many fathers that love to hunt and refuse to take their children because the young ones tend to spoil opportunities. I am greatful for you taking your son and teaching him the greatest sport there is.
 
Unfortunately I don't have the cash to do an exclusive guided hunt but I don't hold it against the guys that can. Over the years I have always tried to stick up for the "Average Joe" that enjoys hunting on his own whether it is public or private land. It is controversial topics like the NM rifle antelope program that really get my juices flowing!

I really have my doubts that the quality of NM bucks will diminish if the system was changed. It is up to the NMG&F to monitor herd numbers, buck quality, and make quota adjustments. If you look at AZ how many 89+" bucks does that state produce/tag issued? What kind of system does AZ have for antelope?

It certainly appears to me that the current NM antelope rifle tag system is designed mostly with the outfitters and ranchers in mind. The public is issued a fraction of the tags and has their hands tied in regard to hunting public land, scouting, and drawing particular units that they have researched. The hunters that can afford to purchase landowner tags and go on guided hunts have the freedom to choose which ranches or guides they want to hunt plus can do it every year! I'd say this is another case where the wealthy win and NMG&F has bought into it!

If I knew what was going to happen on my son's NM hunt I wouldn't have taken him. I know it was a great opportunity to share with my son but when he saw what was going on it really gave him a bad taste for New Mexico hunting and what lengths some guys will go to get their clients animals. It was really lucky it wasn't his first hunt or he may not have ever wanted to do it again! You know something is wrong when a landowner won't even look at you eye to eye after he knows he's screwed your son over! That is a pretty sad story and one that my son and I won't ever forget!

The year prior my son drew a Wyoming antelope tag and we hunted a ranch where the landowner allowed my son to hunt for free. We had the opportunity to scout and enjoy that hunt without all the legistics that was involved with the NM hunt.

If you are a New Mexico hunter that enjoys hunting on his own I would definitely lobby as often as you can for them to change the system!
 
I don't totally disagree with you jims, but comparing the system in AZ to the system in NM for antelope is apples to oranges. AZ antelope is mostly public land with a little bit of private, where as NM is mostly private with a little bit of public. What works in AZ may not work in NM. I think you did have a valid point about the Utah CWMU's. Something like that may be a realistic idea for NM antelope draws.
 
The main fact here is that most antelope in the state of New Mexico live on private ground. If the game and fish changed the way that they deal with antelope tags very few would get to hunt. They get landowners to allow public hunters to hunt all areas on the ranch regardless if it is private or public ground. Most is more private then public. I drew a tag a couple of years ago. I had the complete opposite experience. I drew in Clayton New Mexico. Did I see a trophy animal? NO, but I went in to it knowing that I was going to get what was there. I killed a mediocre buck. I was happy as could be. The ranch owner only gets a limited number of tags, and the number is always way conservative of the number of antelope there. If you had a bad experience then, please tell us did you see any antelope and if so did your son get one.

If New Mexico changed to any other states system, your son would still be waiting. I am so glad that you take your son hunting. I am hoping that my 8 month little girl will have the same chance. Even if she is not placed on a ranch with a record book goat. She will have the experience of her life and get a chance.

Good Hunting
 
Good luck to everyone that drew a NM antelope tag. I hope and pray that no one eer has the experience that jims and his son had. I hope that everyone can enjoy a sport that is getting nothing but criticism because of people that no nothing about what takes place during a "Hunt". Good luck to all.
 
The reason I brought up AZ is exactly as you mention...AZ is mostly public land! Ichcguide mentioned, "I have a feeling that if New Mexico changed there system to match those other states that the quality that New Mexico has to offer would deminish." I was making a point that AZ produces many of the biggest bucks in the country every year and is managed almost exclusively for public tags and hunters!

My son and I only saw 5 antelope the morning we were left off by the rancher. By the time we hiked to where the guided hunters (and concentrations of antelope) were located there were more antelope but the larger bucks had been filter through and shot. We saw quite a few hunters in trucks drive up to antelope and shoot them from their trucks. When we were finally picked up we went to the ranch house and was amazed at the bucks the guided hunters had shot. A couple of the bucks we recognized because we saw the guided hunters shoot them from their trucks through our spotting scope!

When the rancher took us out and dropped us off for our afternoon "hike" we watched another guy shoot a decent buck from a truck that we were attempting to stalk. My son and I finally decided we had enough and he shot a small buck and we headed home. I wouldn't exactly say that was a very good experience hiking all of opening morning in a crummy corner of the ranch and finally getting to the antelope and watching guided hunters shoot them from their truck hoods!

I decided to do some more investigation work to see exactly how much public land there is in New Mexico. According to the NM State Land Board there are 9 million surface areas of state land. According to the BLM there are 13.4 million surface acres of BLM in New Mexico. That is a total of 22.4 million acres of public BLM and State land in New Mexico. This doesn't include national forest and other public land acres that is antelope habitat and could potentially be hunted.

As it currently stands a large chunk of tags go directly to landowners. Another chunk of tags goes to guided hunters in the drawing, and the remaining tags go to unguided hunters. If I was a NMex resident I'd seriously look at the number of tags that go into each pool. If you think these ratios are fair than power to you; however, if you don't think these ratios are fair and you would like to hunt NM antelope more often I would definitely stand up and do something!

There is a heck of a lot of public land in NM and it is really sad that NM rifle antelope hunters can't research a unit, draw a unit tag, scout, and hunt! Believe me, the shades are being put over your eyes with the present system!
 
If you do not like the rifle system then put in for the archery hunts and you can do your research and select a broad area to hunt. Good luck getting landowners to allow you access to the private land without a fee, and good luck getting them to unlock their gates to allow access to the public land that is landlocked on the backside of the ranch. We are fortunate here in New Mexico that we do not have to hunt public land only when we draw a rifle tag.
 
Alright alright alright. You know so much about the problems with the state of hunting in New Mexico based on your one bad experience. I give like the warden did much time ago. You may have got shafted. Who?s fault is that? Your own. You should have known the reg?s and if the rancher did that to you should have reported it right then and there. Your son is the one that I feel bad about, but he did shoot an antelope. Wasn?t that your goal, or was it to get a record book animal. You surely don't understand what ranchers have to deal with in putting up with animals and making an agreement like they currently have with the state and the way that tags are distributed. The damage that antelope due is much worse then any other species. Trying having to fix the amount of fence that they mess up on a daily basis.

Again you are right. Landowners need to pull their agreements and just hunt or get paid to hunt their private land. The reduction in public tags would be cut by more then half. That way you and your son could hunt your tails off. Truth be known the sorry corner of the ranch was probably the public land that allowed you to hunt on the ranch.

I for one don't know the rancher. I am just irritated that your one bad experience has to provide such a poor light on the entire state?s system in allotting tags. I keep putting in and I never get drawn. I hope every out of state hunter agrees with you and never applies again. I might get drawn.

Great hunting
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-05-07 AT 03:42PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Aug-05-07 AT 03:38?PM (MST)

Jim, sorry you had such a negative experience hunting in NM. It sound pretty horrible that you weren't able to get the best ranch in the state, and hunt in the best corner of it, and kill the biggest buck. It must have been devestating for your son to have to take home a less-than-book animal on the first day of a three day season. I'm sorry the warden didn't respond to your satisfaction when you reported this infraction to him imediately (you did report it didn't you?)I sure hope you have better luck in the future while hunting in one of these other fine states.

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LAST EDITED ON Aug-05-07 AT 04:55PM (MST)[p]Jim, sorry you had such a negative experience hunting in NM, and I hope you have better luck in the future while hunting in one of these other fine states. You might try keeping a positive attitude when you're there- It's likely your son might just think he's having the hunt of his life without you telling him at every turn how much he's getting screwed.

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LAST EDITED ON Aug-05-07 AT 06:28PM (MST)[p]I agree that one peron's bad experience isn't really worth getting too terribly excited about but I've heard the same sad news from several other public hunters. I never found out whether the 13 year old girl that also had a public tag on the ranch ever filled out! She was ready to shoot anything when we saw her at noon. It must have been a coincidence that my son and the girl were the only 2 public hunters on the property and were the only 2 that hadn't filled their tags!

I actually reported the hunt to the NMG&F after the hunt and I also filled out a questionaire. The thing that really agitated me about the hunt was not whether my son got an antelope or even if he got a trophy buck....it was the entire experience! I would have been happy if we were offered the same equal treatment as the guided hunters.

It is the first time in my life I've hunted antelope where someone dropped me off and I didn't have access to transportation while other hunters were driving around shooting bucks off the hood of their trucks! The rancher specifically told me and my son that the guided hunters would be dropped off and would be hiking and that driving would not be allowed. Do you think you would be frustrated if after the rancher told you this that you saw the guided hunters driving up and down the roads shooting bucks while you were left off on foot? You are absolutely right that I should have called the game warden at noon when we were finally picked up! By that time my son and I were so frustrated we just wanted to get the hunt over and go home. It was not a fun experience and that is why I get so fired up everytime I start thinking about it!

I don't claim to be an expert about NM antelope because I only have been on the one hunt. I have heard from other public hunters that have had the same sort of experience and can understand how it would be easy for landowners and guides to treat public hunters unequally. Obviously it is in the ranchers and outfitters best interest to offer their clients the best experience possible. It seems like the ranchers and outfitters have no obligation to the public hunters and with the present system it is just asking for problems! Doesn't that make sense?

In regard to landlocked public land...you are right that BLM land that does not have a public road going through it is off limits to the public; however, if you look at the NM State Land Board website and in the hunting regs it states that landowners must allow hunter access through their private land to the state land. FYI the spot where my son shot his buck (as well s the majority of antelope on the ranch) were on state land!

If you look at BLM land status maps of New Mexico there are several million acres of blocked BLM land with public access in a large chunk of the country from Carrizo west to the Arizona border and south to the Texas border as well as giant blocked chunks of state land in the entire eastern 1/2 of the state. 22.4 million acres of public land is a lot of country! I have a feeling there is probably some blocks of public land with public access near the private ranch you hunt!

I would fore-warn anyone that draws a public rifle antelope tag in New Mexico to make sure to contact the rancher of the ranch you are assigned prior to the hunt, make sure of all the details in advance of your hunt, talk to the game warden in the area, get the game wardens cell phone number, and also the phone number of the closest NMG&F office. I would also make a point of discussing "fair and equal" access with the local game warden and rancher. Lastly, I would make certain to arrive at the ranch at least 2 days prior to the hunt to scout and get familiar with the ranch. I have a feeling many ranchers are timid about hunters driving on their property prior to the hunt but this will be as much help as anything. I would make a point of viewing as much country and antelope as you can even though the rancher may not like it!

The regulations state that you have equal access 2 days in advance so they can't really stop you! The reason I bring this to everyones attention (especially guys not familiar with the ranch) is that I just don't want to happen to my son (and others) to happen to you. One of the first priorities I would have if I drew a NM tag is to contact the locate game warden prior to the hunt and have a cell phone with you so you can contact him!
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-05-07 AT 07:14PM (MST)[p]I agree with you. Anyone drawing should contact the landowner in advance of hunting. Mine told me that I couldn't camp on the land. I guess I should have been up in arms over that issue. He has every right not to allow me to camp on his place. We met with him the day before the hunt. Did I ask him what I could do hunting wise ? No. he knew I had the map of his ranch and he new he could not obstruct our hunt. In fact he helped us by working with us with his paid client. He told us to set at a certain spot and they were going to work a corner of the ranch. I had I shot but did not connect.

As a side note one of my friends with me is a game warden and he specifically asked us not to identify him so that he could just set back and help us hunt and have a good time.

Please keep telling everyone that New Mexico stinks so that the residents might have a chance to kill an antelope like your son did. I get to watch them out my living room window, but I still cannot draw a tag. My property is only 320 acres so getting a landowner tag is out of the question. Here is an example. Not a great buck but would make me proud.
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I understand that your main concern is that the rest of the hunters got to shoot their antelope from the hood of the pickup. You and your son had to put time in and walk together. Sorry about that.

If I do ever get a tag on my place you and your son are invited to come and shoot one of these bucks from my back door.

Good Hunting
 
PCHA,

I think you should let me shoot that buck if I ever draw that archery tag. But I think that I would rather shoot them off the water trough behind your house. I can hide in the barn! What would the trespass fee be for an opportunity to shoot that buck. I would be happy with either one, as long as I can have a chance to hunt.
 
As a New Mexico resident I have to say that I like the system we have even better than when I lived in western S.Dak and Wyoming. For whatever reason my family has been lucky enough to draw antelope tags about every 2-3 years for a total of around 8 hunts (We drew last year and again this year). Some years we get assigned a "super" ranch and some years what I would consider an average/poor ranch. Still, with the quality of bucks in NM we have had chances at bucks on all the hunts that I could only dream about the 18 years I lived in up north. In all of our hunts the ranchers have been cordial, helpful and never did I feel like a "second class citizen". On several of the hunts we tagged much bigger bucks than the guided hunters. I will defer to Officer Ahlm but I believe if your ranch isn't working out after the first day the area warden can assign you a different ranch?

Sorry to hear about your experience, as a father I especially feel for your son, hopefully you'll get back down here on another oryx hunt!
 
Hey Doc, is that you! I'm just back and forth from the computer to the gagillian pounds of groceries and gear for the sheep trap. I tried like hell to get you back on the Joe Vigil side. You'll be missed- you're enough man up there to count for two. We've got Dr. Jansen, they say he's pretty good.

Maybe I'll see you on the mountain, were riding in Tuesday early.

Oh yea, and by the way, we will switch you (an antelope hunter) to another ranch if you cannot find a legal buck on the ranch you're on. You won't be switched because you're not happy with the horns you see.

And BTW, I still can't see why Jim's son had it so bad, he killed a buck on the first day after going out of state and hunting alongside his dad. I can only think that if he remembers that as a bad experience it's because Jim spent the whole time telling him it was. My two cents, I'm not trying to be argumentative. I am sorry you had a crappy time. I went to Las Vegas once and it was a nightmare.Maybe next time will be better.
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Hey Warden I have a question for you. I Just got re-assigned to another ranch. I don't know why just yet, but do I have any recourse? The ranch I was first assigned to seems to have quite a few antelope and now I'm 1 hours further east (same unit)and asigned to a ranch that is 1/15th the size(4600 acres) and has 3 antelope tags. (Probally plus one more for mine.) Is there anything I need to say to them when I call? Thanks!
 
Thanks for the ego boost, they put me at Pecos Baldy this year but you are in good hands with Mark. I am sure I will see you, I am bringing all the carfentanil for the darts so I'll ride over to your camp to drop off supplies. I'm not riding in until Thursday, see you on the mountain!
 
Bulzeye: Got one in the same unit (33) McDowell Ranch. Talked to the Antelope manager, Brian, he said they had to move me since they screwed up by assigning a couple to two different ranches. When I tried to contact my new ranch the phone was disconnected. Just my great luck!!!!! Now I have to try and contact Game and Fish to see what the "F" over! Do you know anything about this ranch?
 
Sorry they had to move you! I don't know anything about the ranch either. You never know perhaps there are bigger bucks on that ranch? I hunted a ranch two years ago in the north east corner of the state that was only about 4,600 acres and there was a bunch of antelope on it, there just wasn't much in the way of trophy quality. Good luck!
 
I have been reading through the post here and was sort of surprised at what I have been reading. Because, I hunted the martinez ranch in 04 on a land owner tag(unguided). Yes, I had to walk. However, I could hunt anywhere I wanted and was let out exactly where I ask to be based on the scouting I did the day before. The guided hunters were on a property seperate from the main ranch so I can't comment on their behavior. My two friends and I all shot nice bucks. In fact the only people that didn't shoot a buck were 3 public hunters who refused to walk, got mad and left before the hunt or at noon the first day. If memory serves me there were 6 public and 12 landowner tags that year. Anyway the three biggest bucks were shot by the public hunters who stayed (one was 17"). Just suprised to hear anyone had such a bad expirence. But, I know its possible based on what happened to me in 06. I drew a public tag for the Zurick/Bliss ranch in the same general area. The landowner could not have been more rude or disrespectful when I talked to them on the phone. I decided to make the best of it and went. My brother(who also drew) found one legal buck the day before scouting. On opening day we saw 3 legal bucks and shot two of them. They were not monsters just nice bucks. We had a tough hunt but made the most of it. I would go back in a heart beat. Drawing a tag is so rare that my theory is to be greatful and go hunting. You may not kill the biggest buck in the county but it sure beats sitting at home. In fact I will be back in the same area about 20 miles away in three weeks.
 
Jims,
As you know my son was assigned to the Martinez ranch this year. After a week of trying to get Tony Martinez on the phone I was finally successful. This is what I was told, there's no need to show-up on Thur. (2 days prior to the hunt) I would not be allowed to scout the ranch then. The only time I can scout is On Fri at noon, he will take all 20 hunters out in ranch trucks to show us the ranch boundries (2 hours). At that time all 20 hunters can decide on where we want to hunt. That is the only time I'll be allowed to scout or have access to the ranch. On opening morning he will drop us off and we will be on foot from then on. I will also not be allowed to have my truck on the ranch at anytime. If I wanted to scout from the public hi-way that runs along part of the ranch I could do that. Looks like I better make some calls.
 
Huntho, that's a pretty major violation of his contract. You need to let the G&F department know what's going on. Perhaps even suggest a warden goes out there to make sure there aren't any problems.
 
After hunting the Martinez ranch I can tell you this. There are a lot of antelope. There are alot of nice antelope. Infact over half of the hunters tagged out by noon the first day. All but two were tagged out at the end of the first day. With the rain they have had this year. Friends who have been in the area tell me this should be a great year. Finally, even though this is a good sized ranch, I wouldn't want to hunt it after 12-15 pickups had spent 2 days "scouting". I really had a great time when I went and I bet when its all over you will say the same.
 
"There are alot of nice antelope." "With the rain they have had this year. Friends who have been in the area tell me this should be a great year."

It's funny that you mention these top 2 phrases. Tony told me that it has been an extreme dry year there and I should be happy with a 12"-14" buck. What would you consider a "great year" or "nice antelope"?
 
I have an aquaintence that ranches just a few miles to the north of the martinez ranch. All summer he has said he had got some good rains and didn't have enough cattle. Also, that he had been seeing some really nice antelope. I will be hunting with some friends that have hunted this ranch several times and all the antelope they have shot have been in the 14.5-17" range. I have a ranching/farming background and realize that rain can be spotty. When I hunted on martinez I can remember (1)17",(4) 15-16" the rest were in the 14" range except for two. One was 13" the other 12". I think that both of these were shot by first time antelope hunters (both were happy with what they got). These numbers may not be exact but they are close. Like I said before the 3 biggest were shot by public hunters. What do I consider a nice antelope? I would say any one that I found,stalked, and shot by myself.I would consider a great year to be one that i got to hunt. What I will be looking for is something in the 15"+ range. I am new to this sight. Try to PM me. I have my old maps and might be able to help.
 
HuntHo, I just returned from a trip to catch your post. It sounds like Marinez is doing the same thing to you that he did to my son. I can guarantee his guides have been on the place looking at the bucks from more than a few hours the day before the hutn! Unless you don't mind other hunters driving around in trucks while you are on foot I would get the game warden involved! I can almost guarantee the guided hunters will be going up and down the roads in their trucks shooting the cream of the crop! You legally have 2 days to scout and can use your truck just like the guided hunters! It is up to you if you want to get screwed!
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-09-07 AT 09:45PM (MST)[p]I wish I had drawn a tag I could bittch about.....

Mike,

Good try. Can't make some people happy. Give em 50 bucks and they would complain cause it was wrinkled.
 
There are two sides to every story. I am sure jims felt he was not treated fairly. Others that hunted that year felt otherwise. Water over the dam, anyway. NM G&F and Tony are in agreement with the plan to scout midday on Friday and then restrict vehicle travel on Saturday. There will be 7 youth hunters and their sponsers/dads, along with 13 other hunters. There will be no bull$hit pulled by Tony. I will be there. Everyone should show up Friday, either to scout or for the BBQ. This has the potential to be a great hunt in 2007. In three days, everyone should have the oppty to harvest a nice trophy.
 
I will be hunting in unit 45. Where is the Martinez ranch in relation to Roy? Two of us will be hunting unguided on landowner tags. No other hunters on the ranch we are hunting.
All of the land around us will be hunted. Maybe they will push the goats over on to us.
 
We'll be staying in Roy. The Martinez ranch is 25-30 miles NE of Roy. I've hunted near Roy before, what ranch are you on.
 

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