My Father and FDR

T

TFinalshot

Guest
LAST EDITED ON Nov-24-07 AT 10:54AM (MST)[p]This is not too long, so read it, it is worth considering.

After that, let the spin begin boyzzzzzzzzzzz, I'd love to hear your take on Bill's perspective of his father and FDR . . .



My Father and FDR
By Bill Moyers
The Nation Wednesday 21 November 2007

Bill Moyers gave the following remarks at the Franklin and Eleanor Roosevelt Institute's twentieth-anniversary Four Freedoms ceremony, where he received the Freedom of Speech award.

Thank you for this recognition and the spirit of the evening. Thanks especially for giving me the chance to sit here awhile thinking about my father. Henry Moyers was an ordinary man who dropped out of the fourth grade because his family needed him to pick cotton to help make ends meet.

The Depression knocked him off the farm and flat on his back. When I was born he was making two dollars a day working on the highway to Oklahoma City. He never made over $100 a week in the whole of his working life, and he made that only when he joined the union on the last job he held. He voted for Franklin Roosevelt in four straight elections, and he would have gone on voting for him until kingdom come if both had lived that long. I once asked him why, and he said, "Because the President's my friend."

Now, my father never met FDR. No politician ever paid him much note, but he was sure he had a friend in the White House during the worst years of his life. When by pure chance I wound up working there many years later, and my parents came for a visit, my father wanted to see the Roosevelt Room. I don't know quite how to explain it, except that my father knew who was on his side and who wasn't, and for twelve years he had no doubt where FDR stood. The first time I remember him with tears in his eyes was when Roosevelt died. He had lost his friend.

We can't revive the man and certainly we wouldn't want to revisit the times, but we can rekindle the spirit. There are 37 million people in this country who are poor; there are 57 million who are near poor, making $20,000 to $40,000 a year - one divorce, one pink slip, one illness away from a free fall. That's almost one-third of America still living on the edge. They need a friend in the White House. My father, with his fourth-grade education and two fingers with the missing tips from the mix-up at the cotton gin, got it when Roosevelt spoke. "I can't talk like him," he said, "but I sure do think like him." My father might not have had the words for it, but he said amen when FDR talked about economic royalism. Sitting in front of our console radio, he got it when Roosevelt said that private power no less than public power can bring America to ruin in the absence of democratic controls.

Don't think for a moment he didn't get it when Roosevelt said that a government by money was as much to be feared as a government by mob, or when he said that the political equality we once had won was meaningless in the face of economic inequality. My father got it when he heard his friend in the White House talk about how "a small group had concentrated into their own hands an almost complete control over other people's property, other people's money, other people's labor - other people's lives." My father knew FDR was talking for him when he said life was no longer free, liberty no longer real, men could no longer follow the pursuit of happiness - against economic tyranny such as this. And my father listened raptly when his friend the President said, "The American citizen" - my father knew the President was speaking of him - "could appeal only to the organized power of government."

So thank you for reminding us that liberalism is less about ideology and doctrine than about friendship and faith - the bond between a patrician in the White House and a working man on the Texas-Oklahoma border and their mutual belief in America as a shared project. Thank you for this reminder of how we might yet turn the listing ship of state. My father thanks you, too.
 
No, I didn't read it. I don't care what Bill Moyers has to say. I wouldn't piss on Bill Moyer's head if his hair were on fire.

JB
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-24-07 AT 10:28AM (MST)[p]Interesting, i tend to read a bit of all sides, helps provide perspective and keeps the mind open to new ideas.

Are you afraid you might have to learn something new, or that you will find that you agree more with a liberal than you do with GWB 13? Or is it that you will have to reevaluate your understanding of who FDR really was?

Do tell. . .
 
After I wiped my eyes, I realized Hillary will probably use this as a campaign speech at some poor community along the Mexican border.

Eel
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-24-07 AT 12:39PM (MST)[p]I think it has been the republican party/leadership who, over the past 20 years encouraged the poor from mexico to move north, I mean Regan gave them amnesty, and Bush tried but the democrats, thank God, blocked him from making another huge mistake.

Dont know how Hillary plays into all this, but when she becomes the commander and chief, I'm sure we all will find out. . .
 
"Dont know how Hillary plays into all this, but when she becomes the commander and chief, I'm sure we all will find out. . ."

I just puked!:)

It's one thing to help encourage the poor, but todays dems cry "Raise taxes on big corporations". Then when big corporations pass the tax onto the little guy, the little guy pays through the nose. All the while the poor cheer the dems for "watching out for the little guy". Corporations are happy to pass it along and make big donations to their favorite candidate.

I would rather watch out for myself, thank you!
 
FDR did a lot of great things; I will leave it at that.

Isn't Bill Moyer the one who called the 9-11 terrorists "brave".
I wouldn't believe one thing that prick said.
 
It may be a story about his Dad and FDR, but due to who the story teller is, is it more fact or more fiction?

RELH
 
dont know, I wasnt alive back then, but still it is a good story. . . stop and smell the roses, it's not all doom and gloom, better times await us. . .
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-26-07 AT 00:13AM (MST)[p]Tfinal;
I would hope that you are right, but I am not as optimistic as you are about better times await us. I know you are aware of the famous campaign slogan of the Dems about "taxing the rich and make them pay their fair share".
I am sure that you are also aware of the AMT tax table that grew out of their program to tax the rich. AMT-Alternative minimum Tax. Well I hope you are not one of those filthy "RICH" hardworking suckers that will be paying the price by making more then 75,000 gross a year like the additional 23 million households that will be effected by it this coming April tax deadline. If so your tax will be jumping to a wopping 36% according to the Urban Institute Brookings Institution Tax Policy Center.
Boy! that is really taxing those darn filthy rich folks to pay the poor and the welfare. But you can have some degree of smug, those dirty rich ones making 200,000 a year will pay 90%.
It seems those intelligent Dems forgot to figure in inflation and it is going to hit 23 million more households this year. Sounds great for the upcoming election and most candidates are doing the Texas two step around it and not proposing anything concrete to stop it.
Former Sen. Thompson did make a statement about when Democrats start taxing the rich guy, you need to start running, and stated it needs to be phased out. Of course Hillary showed her leadership style and stated she would work to enact long-term reform but Declined to give any specifics as how she plans to do that.
Heck with both sides doing the two step, more so the Dems, who love to tax the rich, I do not think we are in for better times. But! you keep your rosey outlook, those Dems will save you after all. If you and your wife are one of the poor who does not make a measley 75,000, don't worry, relief is on the way as promised by your tax the rich Democrat.

RELH
 
FDR was the right man for the times.

Moyers said "So thank you for reminding us that liberalism is less about ideology and doctrine than about friendship and faith" That is the biggest problem right there. Liberalism has been hijacked by a bunch of animal loving, tree hugging, enviro nuts hell bent on a Scocialist America run by neer do well elites and academics. Believe you me that there is nothing friendly or faithful about the modern day Liberal!!!!




?Justice consists not in being neutral between right and wrong, but in finding out the right and upholding it, wherever found, against the wrong.?
---Theodore Roosevelt,
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-26-07 AT 09:27AM (MST)[p]
I'll agree with you that most people believe liberals have been high jacked. I dont, I thik liberals are liberals and the others or what they are. Just like I dont think all the conservatives are religious radicals. Youre painting with much too broad a brush.

But, while were on the subject, and you reminded me of it in your post, how it is that we spend out lives raising out kids to go to college and then once they go and come out, they are tainted as liberals?

Is there some reason why, after people go to college, any college, they come out more "liberated." Maybe there's a pattern here. It's no wonder when people get out of college they tend to have more information and access to it and therefore they are better able to make up their own minds. There are those that have gone to college that buck the system and will dissagre with most of what they learned but they mostly are "believers" and therefore facts just tended to get in their way. . .

How come we prep are kids, all their lives, to go to college but then people like you, and millions of others, chastise them and their education once they're in? Youre the same guy who think colleges are just big party's, so what's up with that, which is it? Are you suggesting that academics really is all about brain washing? Sounds like a doom and gloom outlook on life, why not cleans your head a bit, and allow people too make up their own minds, are you really that afraid of the truth?
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-26-07 AT 09:55AM (MST)[p]I work 10 to 16 hours a day, i'm not rich, in fact, i barley make a living montana wadge. I dont have a wife, so 75k sounds like a gold mine to me, I work an honest day and do my best to provide for my child. I'm spend more of my money on gas now that on food, by far. I dont have any money left over at the end of the month. For the previous two days I've out from dark to dark working in 5-25 degree weather and I still dont know if I'll get paid for my efforts. But, I love my life.

I get your points. I really do.

But tell me how come it's okay for exxon to make 50 billion in one quarter, get millions more in tax breaks and still our gas prices are 250% higher now then they were when GWB took over? What was going on before? Should exxon be able able to make that much?

dont worry, i dont own exxon, i dont own any stock, i'm a poor guy who cant play the big market and who likely will be working for the rest of his life. . .That's okay, because it worked for my grand dad, and it will work for me. . .
 
"I'll agree with you that most people believe liberals have been high jacked."
The reason is the radicles have gone off the reservation and are making more noise. Squeeky wheel gets the grease. It is scary when a off the reservation group like Moveon.org says "We own the Dem party bought and paid for" So yes T average America sees that as hikacked. I don't know any other way to put it.

"I dont, I thik liberals are liberals and the others or what they are. Just like I dont think all the conservatives are religious radicals. Youre painting with much too broad a brush."
No you are. I simply know the modern day Liberal is WRONG on almost every issue and they for the most part are moraly bankrupt.

"But, while were on the subject, and you reminded me of it in your post, how it is that we spend out lives raising out kids to go to college and then once they go and come out, they are tainted as liberals?"
You know the answer but I will play along. First of all a lot, not all, of kids get brain washed by the ultra liberal professors that dominate in our colleges. The students much like their professors have never had to go to work in the real world and earn an honest living like you and I. All they know is what has been pounded into their heads by folks they look up to, the professors. Now I am not painting all professors or all students here with this brush. OK. You have to admit that the professors influence is great.
So what you do to keep your kid from being brainwashed is equip them for whats coming. That and send them to a conservative leaning college................TAMU is where I hope my kids go. I think I have them brain washed into going there. LMAO



?Justice consists not in being neutral between right and wrong, but in finding out the right and upholding it, wherever found, against the wrong.?
---Theodore Roosevelt,
 
T,
Do you think that GWB controls the oil and gasoline market? If that were so what upside is there for Republican politicians to have near record or record gas and oil prices?

Of the "1/3" living on the edge, how many put themselves on that edge? They didn't take advantage of opportunities or didn't care to push themselves? How can the government help get these people back from the edge?

The people on the "edge" are still packing cell phones, iPods, laptops and borrowing money to buy vehicles.

I was one of 11 kids and my parents had no money. I managed to get through college by going into the Army and putting up $1,200 of my own money in order for them to repay me $40,000 for school.

FDR was a remarkable man who led during a remarkable time. Unfortunately the government he was instuemental in creating has become a bloated over fed behemoth that is likely to break this country. There is not enough money in this world to pay off the on and off books debt the U.S. government owes. Bill Moyer may have a touching story about his father and FDR but that and 50 Cents will get you a cup of coffee at the local diner.

Nemont
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-26-07 AT 02:04PM (MST)[p]Bill Moyer may have a touching story about his father and FDR but that and 50 Cents will get you a cup of coffee at the local diner.


and that's why I posted it, cheep but good.

I also noted "watch the spin now. . . and really no one just read it for a good read about an incredible man during a tough time in this country. . .


GWB and oil, no connection nemont, just a fact. . . .
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-26-07 AT 03:22PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Nov-26-07 AT 03:04?PM (MST)

Tfinal;
if there is any spin being done here, it is yours. How do you get from a couple making 75,000 a year to Exxon and their billions as being part of the elite rich and need to be taxed at a outrageous amount. I hate to say it, but you are sounding more like a outright socialist that wants everyone to share their wealth with you. You never did answer what you felt about the AMT.
Your ideals on a person receiving a college education is some what suspect itself. Sounds like you are saying if you are a conservative, you must be a dumb illiterate redneck without a college education. If you have a college education you will be more informed and lean towards being a liberal.
I have news for you, I have a college education, GI bill for me also, and am not a left leaning socialist liberal, My oldest son is completing his BA, the youngest has a BA and completing his Masters. He and his wife are teachers and none of them have your left leaning liberal ideals. And I know many others with a college education that would think you are way out in left field in your private socialist world.
What happen to you, did you squander your education and have to work like a peon for wages that are not sufficent according to you? Would that be the reason you want to put a heavy burden tax on working couples that only make a paltry 70,000 a year so you can have some of that wealth thrown your way.
Putting a reasonable tax on corporations that make billions is one thing,but putting that same tax on hard working couples will cause the downfall of this country. You need to come to your senses and think of a better plan, because sooner or later, the workers will revolt or quit working and we all can go on the welfare relief roll.
Tfinal, sometimes trying to figure you out is very complex at times, most of the time you can make good sense, but other times you seem to have a hidden agenda side. Also you should refrain from making racist remarks about the "Yakimas" indians being the one depleting the elk herd on that one post since you have crusaded yourself as not liking "bigots" and their posts will not be tolerated, which is the way it should be. I am sure we have Native Americans on this forum who would take offense as I did. If you have trouble remembering the post, it will be the one where you defended the wolves and put the blame on the Native Americans as being the ones who were "depleting" the elk herd. Kind of a big broad brush don't you think.

RELH
 
The LEADERSHIP of the 'liberals' resemble FDR, JFK about as much as dude resembles commonsense.

When will liberals/socialists realize you can't tax corps, they simply pass it on to the consumer and employees, you know the ones libs claim to be concerned about?

And to seriously wonder why students leave college more 'liberated' than when they entered, do you think it has anything to do with the FACT that over 80% of professors on college campuses are 'liberated pinheads'? Is it hard to fathom how they push liberal drivel onto impressionable young minds, giving them a jilted view of life? Do you really believe they teach anything positive about capitalism or anything American? No, they teach how horrible America is, and how we are the biggest threat to world peace, and how selfish capitalism is, even though capitalism is the single biggest reason America is the single greatest nation on the planet. Do you think students outlook on life would be different if 80%+ of college professors were conservative? Of course they would!

PRO
 
What an interesting post Pro. You manage to insult a guy Dude who I feel is one of the most intelligent posters on this site. I really doubt your 80% figure on professors who are liberals can you back it up or is it just dribble on the internet. Most colleges have schools to teach and develop enterpeneurs, have somebody explain to you how that relates to capitalism.
Pro said
"Do you really believe they teach anything positive about capitalism or anything American? No, they teach how horrible America is, and how we are the biggest threat to world peace, and how selfish capitalism is, even though capitalism is the single biggest reason America is the single greatest nation on the planet. Do you think students outlook on life would be different if 80%+ of college professors were conservative? Of course they would!"

I've attended a few colleges in 4 different states never saw any of this although a little anti-Americanism at UCSC. I'm doubtful of your college experience, or your knowledge of University and college experience at all. Some of the smartest people I know didn't attend college but they have educated theirselves so it's not a requirement, but you have to get pertinent information and make sense of it somehow.

The original point I think a lot of people missed is that most people in the FDR era actually felt the president cared about the people and the country as a whole. Did you have that feeling about Bush or Clinton because I sure didn't. I felt they cared mostly about what they could get from the presidency for themselves and cronies.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-26-07 AT 06:07PM (MST)[p]just be a man relh, just be a man and dont try to figure me out. . .
 
Don't worry, I have no problems with my manhood. I have problems with people who pretend to be what they are not and are two-faced about it. You should consider the old saying, "what is good for the goose, is good for the gander".
You maybe should follow your own sayings about being a man.

RELH
 
>LAST EDITED ON Nov-24-07
>AT 10:54?AM (MST)

>
>This is not too long, so
>read it, it is worth
>considering.
>
>After that, let the spin begin
>boyzzzzzzzzzzz, I'd love to hear
>your take on Bill's perspective
>of his father and FDR
>. . .
>
>
>
>My Father and FDR
> By Bill
>Moyers
> The Nation
> Wednesday
>21 November 2007
>
> Bill Moyers
>gave the following remarks at
>the Franklin and Eleanor Roosevelt
>Institute's twentieth-anniversary Four Freedoms ceremony,
>where he received the Freedom
>of Speech award.
>
> Thank you
>for this recognition and the
>spirit of the evening. Thanks
>especially for giving me the
>chance to sit here awhile
>thinking about my father. Henry
>Moyers was an ordinary man
>who dropped out of the
>fourth grade because his family
>needed him to pick cotton
>to help make ends meet.
>
>
> The Depression
>knocked him off the farm
>and flat on his back.
>When I was born he
>was making two dollars a
>day working on the highway
>to Oklahoma City. He never
>made over $100 a week
>in the whole of his
>working life, and he made
>that only when he joined
>the union on the last
>job he held. He voted
>for Franklin Roosevelt in four
>straight elections, and he would
>have gone on voting for
>him until kingdom come if
>both had lived that long.
>I once asked him why,
>and he said, "Because the
>President's my friend."
>
> Now, my
>father never met FDR. No
>politician ever paid him much
>note, but he was sure
>he had a friend in
>the White House during the
>worst years of his life.
>When by pure chance I
>wound up working there many
>years later, and my parents
>came for a visit, my
>father wanted to see the
>Roosevelt Room. I don't know
>quite how to explain it,
>except that my father knew
>who was on his side
>and who wasn't, and for
>twelve years he had no
>doubt where FDR stood. The
>first time I remember him
>with tears in his eyes
>was when Roosevelt died. He
>had lost his friend.
>
> We can't
>revive the man and certainly
>we wouldn't want to revisit
>the times, but we can
>rekindle the spirit. There are
>37 million people in this
>country who are poor; there
>are 57 million who are
>near poor, making $20,000 to
>$40,000 a year - one
>divorce, one pink slip, one
>illness away from a free
>fall. That's almost one-third of
>America still living on the
>edge. They need a friend
>in the White House. My
>father, with his fourth-grade education
>and two fingers with the
>missing tips from the mix-up
>at the cotton gin, got
>it when Roosevelt spoke. "I
>can't talk like him," he
>said, "but I sure do
>think like him." My father
>might not have had the
>words for it, but he
>said amen when FDR talked
>about economic royalism. Sitting in
>front of our console radio,
>he got it when Roosevelt
>said that private power no
>less than public power can
>bring America to ruin in
>the absence of democratic controls.
>
>
> Don't think
>for a moment he didn't
>get it when Roosevelt said
>that a government by money
>was as much to be
>feared as a government by
>mob, or when he said
>that the political equality we
>once had won was meaningless
>in the face of economic
>inequality. My father got it
>when he heard his friend
>in the White House talk
>about how "a small group
>had concentrated into their own
>hands an almost complete control
>over other people's property, other
>people's money, other people's labor
>- other people's lives." My
>father knew FDR was talking
>for him when he said
>life was no longer free,
>liberty no longer real, men
>could no longer follow the
>pursuit of happiness - against
>economic tyranny such as this.
>And my father listened raptly
>when his friend the President
>said, "The American citizen" -
>my father knew the President
>was speaking of him -
>"could appeal only to the
>organized power of government."
>
> So thank
>you for reminding us that
>liberalism is less about ideology
>and doctrine than about friendship
>and faith - the bond
>between a patrician in the
>White House and a working
>man on the Texas-Oklahoma border
>and their mutual belief in
>America as a shared project.
>Thank you for this reminder
>of how we might yet
>turn the listing ship of
>state. My father thanks you,
>too.


T

Here is your hero's work.

Japanese American internment was the forced removal and internment of approximately 120,000[1] Japanese and Japanese Americans (62% of whom were United States citizens)[2][3] from the West Coast of the United States during World War II. While approximately 10,000 were able to relocate to other parts of the country of their own choosing, the remainder ? roughly 110,000 men, women and children ? were sent to hastily constructed camps called "War Relocation Centers" in remote portions of the nation's interior.

President Franklin Roosevelt authorized the internment with Executive Order 9066, which allowed local military commanders to designate "military areas" as "exclusion zones", from which "any or all persons may be excluded." This power was used to declare that all people of Japanese ancestry were excluded from the entire Pacific coast, including all of California and most of Oregon and Washington, except for those in internment camps.[4] In 1944, the Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of the exclusion, removal, and detention, arguing that it is permissible to curtail the civil rights of a racial group when there is a "pressing public necessity."[5]

Some compensation for property losses was paid in 1948, but most internees were unable to fully recover their losses.[3] In 1988, President Ronald Reagan signed legislation which apologized for the internment on behalf of the U.S. government. The legislation stated that government actions were based on "race prejudice, war hysteria, and a failure of political leadership",[6] and beginning in 1990, the government paid reparations to surviving internees.
 
he's not my hero, and he like many other's helped to make some very huge mistakes. Some people dont/cant/wont learn from our past. It's too bad it happened.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-27-07 AT 10:02AM (MST)[p]T

Yes mistakes were made. And to let you know he is my dads favorite. Hard times lead to harsh actions, doesn't make it right though.
Sent you another PM. Thanks


Ransom
 
FDR's wife was a socialist through and through...thats fact. A very well-heeled socialist.

The left has that Euro-trash George Soros and the Hollywood elite and their sundry followers that range all the way to Communist Pary of the USA (CPUSA).

It should be noted that back before the dissolution of the USSR, the CPUSA recieved monies from same, which no doubt reached the democratic party as this was the most influential party that the American Communist Party could relate to. They [CPUSA]were most influential via unions and labor parties during the 30's through the 40's. FDR's watch.

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/archives/sova.html

So it should not be discounted that the wealthy own their share of the democrat party. Its not all a republican thing. Lobbiests willingly salt campaign funds of both parties. Rest assured, corporations like Exxon give money to the democrats in some way, otherwise they wouldn't be able to do business. They realize that the Dems support of the enviromentalists and animal lovers is rhetoric, and is part of the game. You can vote for someone fresh with ideals, but at some point, they get owned in some way.
 
JimNv

I'm not a FDR person myself, just my dad. Different generation and hard times I never knew. When a person really examines FDR's record it's an eye opener. FDR said things about agriculture and the economy that would make a commie jump for joy.


Ransom
 
JimNv
I fail to understand the connection you are trying to make with FDR and the Communist party. The link is a wikkepedia type basic information that doesn't tie with this thread. The American Bund (Nazi Party) filled Madison Square Garden and had summer camps for children throughout the U.S. so what? The Communist and socialist such as Townshend and Coughlin and the Share Our Wealth people continually attacked FDR doesn't sound to me like he was in bed with the Communist. In fact most historians would say that he probably kept many socialist from gaining the power the failed economy was giving them the opportunity to achieve. People were desperate he offered hope without changing the Constitutional Republic to Socialism. I am a fan of FDR he made mistakes but he made tough choices that got this country operating again. Examine the record I would wager in Vegas that most argueing on this site haven't.
 
Corn, the connection I was trying to make is that though FDR did, in fact, do some great things, I also think that due to his support of the labor unions and the like, he more than likely bit into that prettily wrapped campaign money donated by the communist workers party. Read this years ago so I pulled it out of my memory such as it is. Eleanor, with her socialist leanings, must've also held sway over some policy as whe was a formiddable woman who makes Hillary look like Sally Fields.

The point being that some here think the the Republicans are lords of darkness because of their support of capitalism. Well the Dems are as bad if not worse, because of their hypocrisy.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Franklin_D._Roosevelt

Interesting the Ronald Reagan admired FDR. That would probably make some conservative want to puke.

Often the "working man" thinks a politicians is his or her friend because they promise to punish the "evil" employers and "level" the playing field so that everyone is equal to the lowest common man.

I don't want to be lumped in with the common man.

Nemont
 
Didn't FDR know about the plan to attack Pearl Harbor months before it happened?? Wars do wonders for an economy. Yeah, he's such a hero. pc
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-28-07 AT 01:53PM (MST)[p]Paul_Crawford

I surely hope not. Have heard those rumors but think thats what they were. My uncle was a navy officer at that time. He said that the Japanese just out foxed us on their radio comunications. Lead us to believe they were one place but were in another. I really don't know the facts just heresay.

Ransom
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-28-07 AT 02:59PM (MST)[p]PC;
They did know ahead of time that the Japanese was going to attack. they had already broken the japanese military code and was monitoring their radio transmissions. The big problem was they were not sure just WHERE the japanese was going to attack. The U.S. alerted all their outer lying bases to prepare for a possible attack, but the warning to Pearl Harbor was sent by non-priorty means and was delayed until after the attack had already took place. Of course there is rumors that this was done on purpose in order to get the people more involved in the war effort,because of a sneak attack. I find it hard to believe those rumors without alot more proof. FDR was for getting involved in the war effort long before Pearl Harbor, but I do not think he stooped that low to allow a sneak attack take place and kill a couple thousand servicemen to get the citizens to back him in going to war against Japan and Germany.

RELH
 
>......Is married secretly to TFinalshot. haha.
>Sorry TFINAL, the devil made
>me do it. pc
>


T must be desperate!
 
JimNv I understand what you were saying my bad. I even agree with you on some things. Its also always a nice deal to read a courteous response on this site my compliments.

JimNv Wrote
"The point being that some here think the the Republicans are lords of darkness because of their support of capitalism. Well the Dems are as bad if not worse, because of their hypocrisy. "

Very true but I think that very little difference exists in their level of hypocrisy. I guess it really comes down to where is the line between socialism and the regulation we demand in our capistalistic society. No real answer to that, in many cases. Medicare, Medicaide, Social Security, farm programs and all other government entitlement programs are to a degree socialistic.
 

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