Mule Deer Injury Diagnosis

grizzmoose · Oct 19, 2009

Saturday night in the Book Cliffs, I was helping my cousin out. We came across this nice 4 point right before dark. He takes a shot with a .243 100 grain bullet from about 50 yards. The deer was slowly quartering away from us to his right. I was unable to see where the shot impacted the deer, but clearly saw his reaction. He reared back on his hind legs almost, almost falling onto his back. He never went down, but ran hard to the right for about 10 yards, and immediately turned back the same direction he came from and crashed into an old cedar tree. We could hear him running back into cover crashing into all sorts of crap. Considering how close it was to dark, we went back to camp and got our lanterns and heavy flashlights and started to follow the blood trail.

Now here is where Im needing some expertise. The blood trail was very consistently dropping small spots about the size of an M&M every 2-3 feet for about 200 yards. The blood was lighter in color, but not super bright. Here and there we would find bigger spots, some almost pancake size. At one point we found a large puddle about the size of a dinner plate. Then the smaller spots continued on. We called it quits at this point because we were getting turned around and decided to go back in the morning to continue.

That morning we picked up where we had left off and follow very small spots for another 6-700 yards. We finally found a spot where he had bedded down for the night and spilled a very significant amount of blood. After the pool, we found a few other spots for another 100 yards. These drops were fresh and smallish in size. We followed them out into a sagebrush clearing where we found another group of hunters. They said we had pushed the deer out 5 minutes before we appeared. They stated the buck was in really bad shape, moving very slowly up a hill with his tongue hanging out. They pointed us to where he went and we looked around for several hours after that. The blood trail went cold and we decided to call it quits for the day. Other members of our party will continue to look for him during the slow afternoon hours, but we arent feeling too confident in finding him. My cousin, who has never killed a deer and waited 9 years for this tag, did the honorable thing and chose to end his hunt.

So, where do you think this deer was hit? Seeing him run away after the shot, there was definitely no indication of any leg or hip damage. How he lost so much blood w/o dying is really baffling me. What are you theories as to where he was shot and how much longer he could survive?

GHOSTINTHEWOODS · Oct 19, 2009

Did you find any bone. I blew the jaw off a coyote this past weekend that acted just like that, and maybe thats why the other hunters thought they seen his tounge hanging out. also would bleed alot without dieing. Just a thought

apollosmith · Oct 19, 2009

With the rearing back and disorientation, I'd guess a jaw or face shot. Maybe front shoulder or neck. It's impossible to know. At 50 yards, that should be a DOA shot if put in the right place. Hopefully you'll find the buck. This event, as terrible as it is, should give him plenty to time to reconsider his preparation, caliber, shooting ability, etc. and try his best to ensure it doesn't happen again next year or ever.

ramtagless · Oct 19, 2009

If the blood was lighter, but not frothy, the deer was likely hit in the chest cavity without catching lungs or heart.

My guess would be that he was hit a bit high between the lungs and spine. Could have also caught him in the brisket area ahead of lungs but, not likely if he was quartered away to the right. Just my guess..

Thats tough. Hope he finds him. A lot of guys would not have ended their hunt and he should be commended for that.

DR_DEATH · Oct 19, 2009

What do you say now MM Police???

What??? A rifle hunter wounded and lost a deer.. No way no how.. According to the MM Police only bow hunters do this.. and to think their are 75 thousand more rifle hunters that bow hunters..

I also talked to 4 guys on the rifle hunt that couldn't find their deer either. Maybe the MM Police need to get off their soapbox and STFU.

That is all

tabbyhntr · Oct 19, 2009

RE: What do you say now MM Police???

I'd say with that much blood loss that deer will stay close to water, I'd look for water in that area and see if you can find any blood around it. Good luck and don't give up.

grizzmoose · Oct 19, 2009

RE: What do you say now MM Police???

We didnt find any bone at all. The way the other hunters described him when he was walking made it sound like he was really laboring to get up a small hill. Im kind of assuming that means it was somewhere more in his core. But Im really unsure as to what kind of injury would cause him to bleed all night long. I do agree that the choice of weapon and caliber were too small. He really wanted to use this particular weapon for sentimental reasons. I doubt he will take it out again.

In regards to the last post, I am aware that all hunters may lose deer regardless of their weapon of choice. All of them are unfortunate. Please dont turn this into a war between rifle and archery hunting. Go find another post for that.

Deerlove · Oct 19, 2009

RE: What do you say now MM Police???

Why didnt the other hunter put him down??

grizzmoose · Oct 19, 2009

RE: What do you say now MM Police???

No idea. Sure wish he would have. This was a nice buck, maybe 23-24 inches, but really really tall. I know the guy was not aware that the deer was being followed by us. Im guessing the guy didnt want to use his tag on it.

AndymanSavage · Oct 19, 2009

RE: What do you say now MM Police???

Where in the bed was the blood? Was it smeared on the ground in the middle of the bed or dripped on the edge? Just one more clue to look at.

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http://andymansavage.blogspot.com/

grizzmoose · Oct 19, 2009

RE: What do you say now MM Police???

Was kind of hard to tell. He bedded in a bunch of dry needles and the blood soaked down in quite a ways. A lot of the needles were disturbed when he got up so it was difficult to tell where the bed started and ended.

infinitecircles · Oct 19, 2009

RE: What do you say now MM Police???

On a quartering away shot, if the bullet placement was too far forward the shot could have entered low just behind the front leg and passed through the deer between his leg and ribcage or with that light of a load broken a few ribs but not penetrated into the vitals. Bullet would have ended up in the brisket. Saw a wound on an elk like this once. Every time the animal moves it re-opens the wound. Good luck finding it.

muleybull · Oct 19, 2009

Probably a ham shot. You may have hit bone, they dont always show for sure, usually see it more going up or down hill. I happens, no matter how good you are, or how hard you try.

Is that ethical?

gb22 · Oct 19, 2009

RE: What do you say now MM Police???

The only two deer I ever saw "rear up" like a horse, were both shot through the heart......they ran very short distances and fell dead. Obviously, that's not the case here, so I'll just wish you luck. Don't have much else to offer.

A jaw wound (have a friend with a penchant for doing that) would probably not result in so much blood. I (too) think you shot him through the chest cavity.

Within the shadows, go quietly.

MTCOWBOY · Oct 19, 2009

Also with a quartering shot (if from the rear) it could have taken out a single lung causing the labored behavior. Given the light small round wound channel would deteriate the frothy look effect of a lung shot. Good luck on recovery, and honorable choice on punching out.

Wayne

firemedic56 · Oct 19, 2009

I do hope that you guys find his deer, it seems to me to be one of those unfortunate situations where you will never know where the deer was hit until you find it and you may find it 50 feet from where you last looked....or you may never see hide nor hair of it again, which I sure hope isn't the case....good luck to you.

Dikndirt · Oct 19, 2009

I wouldn't be so quick to blame it on the lighter caliber gun. at close range a .243 will do the job just fine if the bullet is placed correctly. It might be that the deer was hit somewhere in the front, ahead of the ribcage. A lot of loss is typical of a front end non-fatal wound. Good Luck

marley · Oct 19, 2009

My cousin and I had a doe tag a few years ago and it was his very first hunt. I propped him up on a fence post with a .243 and told him to shoot her in the shoulder. Well he hit it low in the neck, punching clean through it and took out its windpipe. It fell over and as we were walking up on it, it stood up and half trotted up the hill and he couldn't hit it again before it crested the ridge. We left it alone until that afternoon (at least 6 hours) and then followed the blood trail for about 3 miles with VERY LITTLE blood that was spaced about every 30 yards or so. Finally I saw it trotting up the hill about 300 yards in front of us with it's tongue hanging down to its knees. After a few misses by my cousin, I grabbed the gun and shot her in the spine as she was running up the hill. Based on what I learned from this it sounds like maybe a neck shot. It will continue to bleed for quite awhile and he will probably stay near water so keep looking you'll find him. Look for the buzzards!

mmwb · Oct 19, 2009

Muscle wounds, lethal or not, can lead to a lot of bleeding, though I haven't observed that it is light in color. I think any number of the hypotheses above are viable.

Don't give up on an animal when the blood dries up. Often tracks are visible. You will loose them on occasion, but can often find them by pacing the stride. Also, this time of year, leaves and seeds are often knocked off of plants as an animal rubs them walking by. This can sometimes help bridge the gap from one track to another. If you get into an area with a mess of tracks form different deer, then unless you have a distinguishing mark in the track, it becomes very difficult. As stated, look to water for sign. I expect it will also want to bed where it feels some relative safety, but not too far from water.

JACO · Oct 20, 2009

.243 is plenty of gun for a deer. I've killed two deer with a .243, both one shot kills. One was in the neck, complete pass through, died on the spot. The other was a double lung + heart shot, also a complete pass through, fell dead right where it stood. I would say he probably hit it a little far forward in the shoulder, that typically draws a lot of blood without being immediately fatal.
I agree that you should check water, I hit an elk this year and lost the trail, to later find it within 100 yards of water.

Nocked N Loaded

Dean Parisian · Oct 20, 2009

I would keep the binocs on the area and keep looking for magpie and crow/raven action before long. Assuming you could determine which way the buck was "facing" in his bed, what part of the body had the wound?

swbuckmaster · Oct 20, 2009

take any dog and go for a walk in the area you lost the deer. even a stupid poodle can sometimes find downed game. Just leave your rifle in camp.

also go out in a few days and look for crows. you will smell him. If you look long enough you can find him. that is the problem with most that wound game. they just dont look long enough!

good luck and hope you find him.

Archery is a year round commitment!!

OpeningDay · Oct 20, 2009

Grizzmoose,
I read your post about the biker. You mentioned a deer in the back of the truck. Did you find the wounded deer or did the tag come out of the pocket????

grizzmoose · Oct 20, 2009

No, our group had three tags. In our truck was my cousin that did fill his tag, and his brother that lost the deer. Our fathers are still out there trying to fill another, and recover the lost deer.

That does bring up a question though. . .say they recover the deer. I know they cant move it w/o the tag. To recover the deer, Im assuming my cousin would have to drive up there with his tag and go from there. Right?

OpeningDay · Oct 20, 2009

LAST EDITED ON Oct-20-09 AT 03:19PM (MST)[p]Yeah. I am positive that the tag holder has to be with the animal.. Hope they find it. In the mean time, lets see some pics of the other buck.

Ungulate · Oct 20, 2009

My vote is for neck shot. I shot a deer this year that took a .30 cal round to the neck. It fell right over. As soon as I approached it, it got up and started to trot off for about 10 yards and then fall. With each fall small pools of blood would identically follow the pattern that you described. I would start looking for the animal where you lost the blood. Normally when you loose a blood trail it means that the animal has expired.

grizzmoose · Oct 20, 2009

Interesting thought. We definitely look ALL over where the last spot of blood was. My thought was not that he expired, but just stopped bleeding. Last blood was coming out of cedars and into a sagebrush field. We combed the high sage brush and found nothing. Tracking blood there definitely became more difficult, so maybe we just lost it.

out4elk · Oct 21, 2009

I think the first couple of posts are good possibilities. Watched a deer act just like you described and leave a very similar blood trail when my brother hit it on the ML hunt this year. We left it alone for a half day, when we found it he wasn't moving very far and would stop to catch his breath, that is when my bro ended it. He hit it behind the ear with an exit through the nose/jaw on the opposite side of the head.

My very first spike elk years ago was hit right across the bridge of the nose. When we found him and got a finishing shot he was moving in small increments and breathing really heavy.

?Life is like a ten speed bike. Most of us have gears we never use!?