Mountain Goat HELP!

ktc · Apr 30, 2009

Can the experienced mountain goat guys pass on some field judging tips, identifying male and female tips, mountain goat habits, and the best books/DVD's to help answer these questions? Any info i need to know or help identify a top end goat? I am a rookie and I cannot blow this chance.

I have some experience watching goats but I am far from any kind of expert. Thanks.....

PleaseDear I appreciate your help!

littlejoe · Apr 30, 2009

I am not an expert by any means. I do know that all the Billy's I have seen while hunting and not hunting are considerably larger than the nannies. I was told only billies have the block shock mount looking piece around the base of the horns. Billies horns will curve back where the nanny will be straighter. Billy will have mass, nanny will have very little mass. In my opinion the hide is as important if not more important than the horns. Short haired goats are much less appealing than a long haired billy. I know that the billy will be yellow in color as well.

one_dryboot · Apr 30, 2009

Look for Testicles

Triple_BB · Apr 30, 2009

With all the fur my billie had, you wouldn't have seen a sack unless he was setting on yer face. Then you coulda said you were teabagged!

Elk375 · Apr 30, 2009

http://www.wildlifenews.alaska.gov/hunt_trap/hunting/goat/goat_long_quiz_for_web.pdf

This is from the Alaskan fish and game.

mtmiller · Apr 30, 2009

ktc,

Here is another one you can check out.

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wildlife/hunting/docs/goat_orientation_08Utah.pdf

mtmiller · Apr 30, 2009

My opinion, look at the bases...you will know a billy when you see it.

Best of luck and I can't wait to hear about the hunt.

Now if you want to know the difference between an 8.5 and a 10, I couldn't do it.

Wait until good hair and enjoy...nothing like goat country.

WARBIRDUM · Apr 30, 2009

Carrot look for the carrot Ty.

Prism · Apr 30, 2009

Let Barbie make the call. What are you paying her the big bucks for?

ktc · Apr 30, 2009

Thanks for the links and opinions so far. Anyone else?

dwalton · Apr 30, 2009

Mtnmiller speaks the truth. I had Myles Bradford tell the same thing about not being able to tell the difference between a 8.5 and a 10 incher. This is a guy who has guided goats for over 30 years.

I have a few older Duncan Gilchrist books on Mtn. Goat hunting. Let me see if I can find them among the moving boxes. If I do, I'll see about mailing them to you.

ktc · May 1, 2009

dw,

I really appreciate your offer of the books! Please, let me find out what I am getting first before you send the books. I am getting videos to borrow from two friends. I am pretty sure they are vids so I can probably use the books also. I will gladly pay your shipping and as always get them back to you pomptly and in good condition.

That is very interesting about the 8.5 to 10". I would have guessed they could be field judged within an inch however if you guys cannot do it then niether can I. Looks like mass is the key.

Thanks.

littlejoe · May 1, 2009

On the wall as a lifesize the hide is much more of an issue than the horns. 99% of the hunters out there could not tell you whether the goat was 9" or 10". Does not matter. Any billy is a great trophy.

ColoradoOak · May 1, 2009

ktc,

You need to concentrate on the overall appearance of the goat. A mature billy will develop a longer face, and the head will almost take on the shape of a horse head. The reason it is so difficult to judge horn length is because the body of the goat tends to increase in size as the goat matures. So horn length stays somewhat relative to body size.

You should be able to judge the mass of the horns through a good spotting scope at reasonable range, to determine whether it is a billy or nanny. Concentrate on lone adults or groups of 2-4 adults, as the mature billies likely won't be with the nannies and kids. Once you've found the billy, the challenge is to determine if it is a mature goat.

Here's a good example of a block-headed mature billy:

Check out Tony Bynum's mountain goat gallery. He's got lots of excellent photos of mostly nannies and young billies. You'll be able to tell the difference shortly.

http://www.tonybynum.com/galleries

Here are good examples of the difference between a nanny and a billy with excellent mass:

buffalo · May 1, 2009

KTC sent you a PM.
Buff

ktc · May 1, 2009

Oak and Buff,

Thanks guys. I sent you a pm buff. That is good info Oak. Never really thought to look at head size. You guys are getting me there!

BCBOY · May 2, 2009

Mountain goats are one of the most difficult animals to trophy hunt. When an inch or 2 in length is the difference between a good billy and a great billy, it makes it a challenge. There are areas that consistantly grow Booners but most areas all you are looking for is a mature billy. It is pretty easy to tell a big billy from a small billy. Like it was said before, that big blocky head and huge body is a give away. Picture a Tank on short little legs. While most young billys and nannys are dainty and might be in that 100-140 lbs range, a big billy is in that 200-400 lbs range. They are pretty easy to pick out on the mountain.
Then there is the terrain that goats live in. I have watched them feed in fairly tame alpine areas, but for the most part, they hang out in the sheer vertical. Finding a decent billy is only half the battle. Killing him in a retrievable area is totally a different story. For the most part, a small ledge is not enough to keep them anchored. They are very prone to kick themselves off or even jump off. A couple years ago my brother shot a Booner billy that was feeding on a alpine slope. When he shot, the billy jumped straight out. He watched him tumble and tumble and tumble and slide and then free fall and then tumble and free fall again till he lost sight of him. This was what looked to be 'easier' goat ground. It took him an hour of going down hill to get to the billy. When he found him piled up, both massive horns were bust in half. No way in hell to find the missing pieces. Even as it is, that goat almost makes Book. He'd of been well into the Book if he had of been intact. Then my brother had to pack that sucker out of there, just him and his dog. Told me it was the hardest meat hunt he'd ever done.

ktc · May 2, 2009

BCBOY,

Your points are well taken and I appreciate the good advice. Luckily for us, the area she drew is pretty tame when we talk goat areas. Hopefully I dont encounter anything like your brother experienced? I will keep all of that firmly planted in my mind though. The Utah record book shows her area does produce book goats so that is a plus. I agree with you totally though, 47" to 50" is a pretty tight tolerance and making that judgement on the hoof at 300+ yards, or closer, will be a challenge at best. I am getting after it to do my best to learn this deal since her chance took 15 years to draw and it is OIL so it will be her only chance! I wish I was 10 years younger!!

Thanks for your thoughts.

PleaseDear · May 2, 2009

So I take that I mailed all those Scoring movies to the wrong Lehi address?

Robb

ktc · May 2, 2009

Wrong address? What gave you that idea? They came to the right mailbox and I am very happy about that!

ktc · May 3, 2009

buffalo,

Thanks for the call today! It was nice talking to you. It sure helps when someone with experience gives you info that would take several days to figure out on your own.

It is guys like you that keep me hanging around here.