Mountain Goat Caliber?

[ktc]

I have never shot a mountain goat or been around anyone who has. Could the mountain goat veterans give me their opinion please?

My wife has the tag. She killed her elk with my 300WM. She can shoot the 300 but it belts her pretty good. My other option is a 270. The 300 has Sciroccos and the 270 Accubonds. Here is my question; Is the 270 enough gun or would the 300 be a better option? I know a 270 will kill a goat, but I want a little room for error. Not sure how sturdy goats are? I hear they can be tough and you want to plant them in their tracks to avoid a wounded goat running off a cliff or into a hell hole?

So what do the goat hunters think? Thanks!

 

[RamDreamer]

Bigger is better with mountain goats.

You have to remember that you're going through a lot of thick hair, in addition to dealing with the goat's tenacity.

Based on your comment of "but it belts her pretty good", have her just be very careful if the shot is an extreme upward one - she'll plant the scope in her skull if she's not careful.

 

[ktc]

Ram,

Thanks. Your ideas kind of reflect what I have been finding out. She can handle the 300, but you are right, she needs to be careful!

 

[ColoradoOak]

The .270 is quite adequate, but if you want room for error, I would have her shoot the .300. Goats are definitely "sturdy".

 

[PleaseDear]

I am sure the .270 sould satisfy her harvest but the .300 may be more forgiving on shot placement.

My Colo Billie took 3 7mag shots, 2 were an inch and a half apart right in the front shoulder and it did not break-up/ shatter the bone like most animals it 'spider-webbed' the shoulder bone with just two holes centered.

The 3 rd shot was heart/lung and a pass thru no bone hit.

Tough MO-FO's them mountain goats!

How are your lungs/legs after some scouting trips Ty?--ha!

Robb

 

[ktc]

My legs and lungs are fine. That is because I have not gone yet! ha! Should be an easy hunt as mountain goats go. My binos and spotter will do my walking. I have been doing the map, email, and phone call scouting. May just go down early and put one to bed for her?

3 shots from a 7? Wow, that surprises me! I guess the 300 it is based on the replies. She handles it okay and made a perfect shot on her elk.

 

[Cahunter805]

KTC Id say the 300 would be a better round if you wife can shoot it. I might recommend putting a Limbsaver recoil pad on it for your wife. They do work!! Regardless Have a great hunt and Good Luck!

 

[KILLERBEE]

depending on how much time you have. you could put a muzzle brake on it?

i shoot a 300 wby. i shot it for yrs w/o a brake on it. finally after shooting a couple boxes a week getting ready for my moose hunt in AK. i shot my buddies 30-378 wby. it kicked 1/2 of my 300 wby. i took my gun in the next day to have it done. not only is my recoil -1/2 what it was, but the gun doesn't "jump" off target when you shoot. yes they are loud, i use ear plugs any time i'm practicing, but not when hunting and i never have noticed the noise when hunting.

just a thought for you

 

[CJS]

My wife had a mountain goat tag last year and she decided to go with the .270 with a 160 Nosler Partition. She made sure the goat gave her a good broadside shot and the goat never took another step. One well placed shot to the shoulder a nice exit hole prove that the .270 is all your wife needs to shoot. Why have her worry about the recoil of a .300 when she doesn't have to?

 

[HornedToad]

I shot my British Columbia mountain goat three times in the heart/lung area with a .300 win mag. It never even flinched, but walked calmly around a bluff and fell 50 ft. into a wash, chipping a small bit off one horn. It was kind of cool seeing that goat take that punishment nonchalantly without showing any sign of distress.

I had just climbed a 40 ft. cliff, and when the goat began moving I took the shot without putting in the earplugs that I had in my shirt pocket. I had flat slabs of rock on either side of me, and my left ear still "rings" to this day, 15 years later. Wear hearing protection.

The above said, I would have my wife shoot the .270 and take care to get good shot placement. A bullet through the lungs will kill the goat, and anything less than a .375 still might not shock the goat into going down unless one got a lucky shot to the spine. Why risk a cut face on a beautiful woman?

 

[BCBOY]

My son killed his first goat last year with a Model 99 300 Sav. I've seen them killed with numerous calibers smaller than the 270. If she feels more comfortable with the 270, that is the gun she should use. Don't let the bigger is better crowd sway ya. Shot placement is key in ALL hunting conditions. Heck, my mother killed her first goat with a 243. Yes, goats are tough critters. A 300 win doesn't change that fact. Take out shoulders and that goat will drop. Just be careful where it's standing when the shot is made. They have an uncanny way of giving a few extra kicks that send them tumbling for the sheer vertical.

Before anyone jumps on me for my bigger isn't better comments, I happen to have a 300 win. I ain't against big calibers, but I am against shooting a gun that you ain't comfortable with. Sometimes goat hunting puts you in some pretty nasty ground with extreme angles for shooting. I caught myself from getting slammed in the face at the last minute on one goat hunt. I wasn't on good footing to begin with, imagine getting slammed in the face with the scope and almost blacking out??? That right there could have been fatal. Not the place to be dickin around with a big caliber just because a bunch of nimrods think that is what is needed to kill a goat.

 

[REDDOG]

cant say much KTC, as i have never shot a goat, but mutch better hunters than I have found the 270 to be plenty.

remember on a goat, aim low and forward.

 

[bighornbob]

I have killed a few goats and yes they can soak up the lead, regardless of what you shoot.

They key is shot placement and goat placement.

Shot Placement: Anchor the goat with a shoulder shot and that will keep it down, if there is any doubt about the goat being alive give it another. Like other have said, even when down they have a tendancy to kick/drag/crawl their way to a cliff edge and over the ledge they go.

Goat Placement- A goat that is spined or shot in the head will drop like a sack of hammers and never move but if said goat is on a 1 foot ledge over a 300ft drop, guess where your goat will end up. I have seen some nasty looking goats come into the taxidermist with missing horns, cut lips and ears etc etc. One even came in with a missing eyeball it lost in the fall/roll. Your taxidermist can only make it look so good.

Watch the goat for awhile and try to pattern them a bit and see where they feed and bed. While sheep hunting once I watched some goats that would bed in the cliffs and feed about 100yards away on some nicer grassy slopes. in this case i would wait until the goat is on a more favourable ground before shooting.

Besides busted horns and wrecked capes I have heard of more then a handful of stories where the goat fell and it was simply unrecoverable. Some guys could not even find their goat as it got hung up on some rock crack or ledge, while others could get somewhat close and see their goat but no way of getting to it.
Anaylize the area before shooting.

BHB

 

[woodruffhunter]

Stick with the 300. What is better with exact shot placement
at 400 yards? Both will kill, but a 300 will most likely kill
FASTER.

 

[gznokes]

i dropped mine on the first shot with a high shoulder shot using my .270. I was feeling pretty proud about it for about 3 seconds until it gave a kick w its back legs and a pull with its front legs and started coming down the mountain like a tire rolled from the top a ski hill. Finally it came to rest after at least 2 hundred yards. It then proceeded to give one more shimmy shake and slid another 100 yards down hill.

The combination of a tough animal living on a slope about 50% or greater is bad news for a hunter who desires a gentle retrieval.

As another post said. In many cases these animals are very predictable to pattern. You can usually wait for them to get in a better position when you shoot them.

 

[ktc]

great info, ideas, and tips!

 

[Scruffy]

Guys being guys always wants to be bigger and faster. I have only shot two goats. One at 400 yds and one at 171 yards. Both went the same distance.....less than 10 yards. Both were shot with the same rifle chambered in......... 7mm-08.

let her shoot what she wants to shoot.....I will continue to use my "girlie" gun on anything in the West with complete confidence cause I can practice 500 (or a whole lot more)shots a year. I don't have an ego...just a full freezer.

 

[ktc]

I need my wife to read this then she can decide. I think she likes the 300 since she took her bull with it? I totally agree the 270 will kill goats, I just want a little wiggle room on error?

Scruffy that 7MM-08 is a good gun. I would not be afraid to shoot it.

 

[predator]

Ty- I have used both a .280 and 300 WSM. Both have brakes. Since I'm frontstuffin' and stickflippin mostly, I'd be happy to loan your wife either one.

That is, if you'd adopt me into your 'draw every year' family! LOL

Pred

 

[ktc]

Thanks Lisa, but that is one thing I wont borrow, a gun. She just read this thread and she said the 300 is fine and she feels good about it. I do appreciate the generous offer though!

Draw every year? Hhmmm? We have done pretty gooad as of late, but this goat tag was another one of those deals where they had to give her the tag. She had 14 points if I remember right. For mountain goats it was the max point pool and she was 1 of 19 people with that many points! Same thing on all of our elk tags. My brother drew with a 15 out of 21 chance, I drew with 100% cahnce, my wife 100% chance and her goat 100% chance! Lots of years of applying and getting points.

 

[alp75]

ktc

The hunt is getting closer. I can't wait to hear and see the outcome. Make sure to post pics. I have been scouting a lot in the uintas, and it is going to be one tough hunt. Rough country and you got to pack in at least 7 miles to get to a basin to hunt. Keep us up to date with how it goes.

 

[predator]

Ty, I totally understand. I used a 180 grain Accubond on my billy, and he went down instantly. If I could figure out how to convert VHS to DVD, I'd post the video and really get you guys excited!

Points smoints. I'm gonna DIE before I draw anything here again! Just make sure she tells the story, so I can live vicariously through her.

 

[ktc]

We will let you guys know how it goes for sure. My research is telling me book goats are available but my judging probably has a bit to be desired. I have some maps and locations marked so hopefully Labor Day I can go down and confirm. Sounds like her hunt is pretty easy physically as goat hunts go? If anyone has any quick reference scoring tips that are easy I would like to hear them. I have watched the DVD's and read the books on judging, but it sounds a bit difficult even then. I hope we can find a decent group of billies so we can just pick the biggest one from the herd then pound him!

I expect the same from you alp! Some good goats have been coming from the Uintah's!

 

[REDDOG]

hell Ty, most of us cant even judge pronghorn, so good luck on the goat!its possibly the only thing harder.

 

[wymoosehunter]

KTC,
Just my two cents worth, but have your wife shoot the gun that she is most confident/comfortable with regardless of whether it is the 300 or the 270. Just shoot primo bullets (I like the Barnes 3X) and be able to hit exactly where she aims. An accurate shot with a smaller caliber is much better than a marginal hit with a big bore.
I am generally an advocate of putting one through the boiler room, but on goats or sheep where one step can result in a mangled trophy or even an irretrievable animal, I want to anchor them.
A goat's skeletal system is a little different than deer and elk and to really anchor them, you will shoot the shoulder a little higher than you would think and break the spine as well.
An Alaskan guide friend of mine who has guided many goat hunters told me to envision a line from the base of the ear to the base of the tail and then a second line running vertically right up the middle of the front leg/shoulder and shooting the goat at the intersection of the two lines. This shot destroys at least one shoulder and the spine, resulting in an instantly immobilized goat. He told me this works for any ethical angle shot (broadside/quartering away/towards-even with steeply angled shots).
I shot my only goat using his advice at approximately 300 yards on an uphill, quartering away angle. I watched it from 70 yards on out. I had to wait for the animal to stand above a rock that would stop it from falling off the cliff after the shot and get to a place that I could retrieve it after the shot.
It turned semi-broadside above a small boulder and I hit it exactly as I described above and it literally crumpled up around the small boulder. After the shot, I watched it with another round ready if it was necessary. The goat was stiffly wrapped around the boulder. When it went limp (dead), it ever so slowly started to slide around the boulder and slide towards a chute, but it hung up.
The attached picture shows the rock and the chute, but it does not do justice to how brutally steep it was up there. If that goat had taken just one step, I would have been retrieving it 1000 feet lower than where it was standing.
Also, wait as long as possible in your season to allow the goat to grow its winter hair. The trophy is not the 9-10 inch horns, but the awesome hair. My goat hunt was one of my absolute favorite hunts, due to how tough it is to get around where they live, the incredible scenary and the effort that I had to put forth. Enjoy the whole experience, it is too hard to draw a tag not to take advantage of that incredible adventure.
Good luck to your wife and post some pictures.
WyMo

 

[mtmiller]

LAST EDITED ON Aug-15-09 AT 07:46PM (MST)[p]I have been lucky enough to hunt goats three times.

First one dropped from a 280 and then rolled down the mountain.

Second one I used a 7wsm and dropped it in it's tracks.

Third, used the 7 again and it went maybe 15 yards. Just before pulling the trigger.

My thought, either will work for you. I would base it more on the weight you will be hauling up the mountain.

Best of luck.

 

[ktc]

I am grateful for the huge response! You guys never fail me!

mtmiller,

Just for fun, what did that last goat score? He looks to be a good mature billy? HE Looks to have good bases but if I were hunting I would like to get a front view to determine mass?

Congrats on 3 goats! pretty impressive!

 

[mtmiller]

LAST EDITED ON Aug-15-09 AT 08:51PM (MST)[p]Not sure what he scored, but probably not real high. He was 9 x 9 1/8 in length, but I wouldn't say he was that heavy. He is at the taxidermist right now, so I am not able to throw a tape on him. The "hunt" was the trophy for me.

I have some frontal shots of him on another site.

http://onyourownadventures.com/hunttalk/showthread.php?t=238465

Pretty lucky on the goats. Headed to BC this fall to chase them again. I put a deposit down on this hunt before I drew in MT last year. I guess there are worse problems to have.

 

[ktc]

mtmiller,

Thanks! I was not implying that he had to score high or anything. I just thought to my untrained eyes he looked pretty good, so I was just curious. Again, very nice, he looks good to me and looks to be a mature billie!

Congrats and thanks for the reply.

 

[alp75]

mtmiller, thanks for the link to your pics and story. Gets me more and more excited every day. Can't wait for the hunt. Looks like you worked super hard and were really rewarded. Everything I expect out of my hunt! Thanks again.

 

[CAelknuts]

I've been fortunate to shoot 2 mountain goats, both dropped dead right in their tracks. The 1st one was shot with a .270 and 150 grain nosler partitions. The 2nd one was shot with a .338 win mag, and 225 grain Nosler partitions. I hunted goats in Montana a few years ago, and I took my .338 again, but didn't see a goat I wanted to shoot.

The goat I shot with the .338 was a disaster. It dropped, stone dead, in it's tracks. Then, after a while, a leg kicked reflexively, and then a 2nd kick sent it over about a 400 foot cliff. It pretty much exploded when it hit the ground after that freefall. There wasn't anything to salvage, so the .338 didn't help, but the problem really was shooting it where I did. I also cut the living daylights out of my brow with the .388, as we were on an extremely steep slope and I was using one hand to hang onto an exposed root to keep from sliding down the mountain while pulling the trigger with the other. That gun, with noting holding onto the forearm, jumped and bit me worse than ever!

I'd recommend your wife shoot the .270, with good quality bullets. Shot placement, as several others have said, is key. Also, be very patient and wait for the goat to get into a bit less trecherous area before shooting it.

 

[Soregonhunter]

My choice would be the 270 or the 280 and use good premium bullets should be no problem. Good shot placement is key.

 

[WARBIRDUM]

I can see a white fluffly animal turning red in the very near future.
300 that beast.