Montana puts new bans on non-res hunters!

R

RUTTNBUCKS

Guest
No not really really, but I feel something needs to be done.

Let me give a few examples.. First, It really seems the last few years I have had some run inns with some flat out arrogant clueless out of state hunters. My first experience took place in a spot that I spent the entire summer scouting and otherwise watching the game. The first week of the season rolled around, I was'nt able to get out until later that week and when i finally did i found some first time Elk hunters from Wisconsin camped way back where the elk had been the week before the season. Needless to say the elk that i had spent alot of time and money watching were now who knows where? Im sure I am not the only one who has had this kind of experience,am I??

It gets better, this last year I had hiked my tail off to get back into some of the best country you can imagine to hunt the majestic bull elk with a bow in the rut, I had been in possition just long enuf to spot a nice six point bull feeding alone in a small meadow. When I hear something that I did'nt believe i was hearing. Yes, you got it, an Atv with two old guys from California who thought it would be fun to hunt elk in the rut in MT. It was all I could do to not start launching arrows at them. You see my frustration??? Then to make matters worse they get off the machine take there bugle out and do some of the worst sounding bugles I have ever heard. They did that several times thus proving once again the incompetents of some hunters.

Now dont get me wrong I am not saying that I think that all out of state hunters are idiots and should'nt be allowed in the woods, or that all local hunters are doing a good job. But I am saying, something needs to be done.

Any ideas out there?? I have a few, what if we adopt Alaskas Law where you either go with a resident or outfitter ie babysitter?? In Montana we have a six week general archery season with a six week general rifle season. With a general tag you can hunt both. That could have something to do with it. Alot of fly by night hunters only go bow hunting because they just like to here themselves try to talk to elk knowing that if they dont get anything they can go out and try with a rifle, so idea two would be to have too choose your weapon at the time of purchasing your tags?? I dont think I have the answere but would love to get some good feedback..
 
There are plenty of in-state law-breaking outlaw moron hunters as well. In fact, I would wager, most laws are broken by the hometown boys. I have also witnessed just as many very poor hunting decisions made by locals. So I would really hold off on laying it on that thick about out of staters, they are paying a lot of the "bills".

I think eventually we will get a choose your weapon for elk, but right now, the majority likes things the way they are, and in those regards believes it ain't broke, don't try fixing it.
 
Hey ruttnbucks,

I hear what your saying but it doesn't sound to me like these guys did anything illegal, just really stupid.

Part of the joys of public land hunting.

I have these same issues here in Utah with residents.

I don't think it is just a non-resident issue either.

I do like your ideas though.

I would love to come and hunt Montana one day.

Maybe I will drop you a line and you can be my babysitter.

:)
 
O_S_O_K
I know that it is'nt just out of state hunters, those are just the best examples that i had. I am not trying to bring up illegal actions I could go on for days with different illegal things that go on, My issue is if I wanted to go down south and hunt hoggs I am going to try and find someone who has hunted them, before I go and do that. anyone who has been successful in hunting elk during the rut knows its not like anything you have ever done and you should'nt go into it thinking its like hunting whitetails in the midwest or something like that. I am sure that there are alot of locals that do the same things. I just want to see some more common sense if you will. I am more than willing to share some experience with someone if asked.
thanks for the input.
 
public land?? i dont see what the guys from wisconsin did wrong??? they were in a good spot if the elk were there, not everyone can afford to hire a guide or has friends that spend alot of time in the hills, DIY hunters it sounds like, and they probably had a great time being somewhere new, and as for the other guys were they driving on a closed to ohv area? if so shame on them but if not that is how they chose to hnt and maybee since they were old they couldnt get around like they used to so they had to use a atv, if it was legal good on em for still getting out in the hills at a older age


THE A TEAM
 
I have no doubt your stories are valid, but I must mention my experiences. Now to qualify things, I only hunt premium units I draw in the lottery, or just stay home. I think it makes a big difference. Normally my units take many years of applying to draw once.

In UT Book Cliffs elk I was constantly battling local UT bear hunters who were driving around letting dogs out, dumping beer cans all over the road. I picked up all their cans.

In AZ unit 1 elk I passed on about 20 bulls before sticking a 340" on the 4th day. When I went to town I found several residents who were not seeing bulls. Two were quiting and going home (on 4th day) leaving one partner who did not know where to go. I set him up with specific directions to several honey holes (they were all over). The AZ website has simple directions on where to go to find bulls and they are everywhere in that unit. These guys waited 10 years for this tag and they were quiting after 4 days!

In Nevada unit 111 elk which is basically once-in-a-lifetime I was 47 years old and running up and down the rocky slopes way past where any locals would go. I found lots of bulls. Passed on several 320-330 bulls up close 20 yards or less. Shot a 350"+ on the 9th day, and driving out had 4 groups of unsuccessful residents stopping me to look. They were surprised a guy from Illinois scored. Once again none could get close for shots. The last hunters I spoke with had not brought any elk calls, cow or bull! I left them mine. Told them to boil diaphram. I'd used it to bugle in my bull to 20 yards when he didn't respond to cow calls.

I feel like in most of these premium units a nonresident has much more money invested to blow that hunt. Much higher tag price. Usually a longer wait to draw tag. More travel expenses to get there. Also I work out like an animal when I draw a good tag, and am always in top physical shape.

So this goes both ways. I've actually spoke with more residents who complained more about other residents and were actually interested to speak with me, being fewer in number there.
 
sithtine,
You are not understanding the thread or my frustrations so that leads me to think that you are not in the hills much.
To the guy that hunts elk alot you understand that you must be careful and really hunt smart that means you dont set up camp right smack dab in the middle of bedding ground do you???? You must know that if you hunt as hard as I think you do. The issue is not a legal one, it is a matter of keeping this sport from being over run by a bunch of fly by night hunters, the kind of guys that go wherever they want and do whatever they want.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-13-10 AT 01:06PM (MST)[p]This sounds like rookie MT elk hunting 101 - with no shortage of whining.

If you scout all summer and have elk pinned down, you can't blame anybody but yourself if you aren't camped on them ready to ambush on opening morning. Quit whining about other people hunting in "your" public land spots. They belong to them also --you snooze, you lose. Sounds like you aren't familiar with the hunter pressure in your area.

Who actually expects a quality MT elk hunt in an area where ATVs are allowed?!?! You better expect competition.

In my experience it's the resident idiots that jack things up most of the time.
 
i understand what you are saying but how are you going to win this battle???? every person that is eligable to hunt has the right to hunt public groud and ya some guys "dont get it" but we arent going to and cant change it

THE A TEAM
 
People have a right to be where they want and do what they want as long as they obey the law whether hunting or site seeing. Part of being a seasoned hunter is to be ready for what can happen and to know where the elk go. Try hunting in wolf country if you think elk aren't suppose to be disturb.
 
"Now dont get me wrong I am not saying that I think that all out of state hunters are idiots and should'nt be allowed in the woods, or that all local hunters are doing a good job. But I am saying, something needs to be done"

Dont forget what I said in the opening thread. I am not against non res. hunters, I am wondering what you guys are seeing and experiencing and wondering if there are some laws that help this kind of situation?????? I am not saying I have the answere I am wanting some input, maybe from some people with experience in AK or even WY with there wilderness law.
 
I spend a LOT of time in the mountains. I've killed (or been there when my friends/kids killed) 250+ mule deer and 100+ elk; plus bear, antelope and well, I DO hunt a lot.

I'm one of the locals (in Idaho). I teach everyone in hunter ed to be courteous and so forth.

But I think both of the examples you cited are perfectly fine....good for the Wisconsin guys for (probably) fulfilling a lifetime dream (I'd have helped them if they weren't rich enough to hire a guide); doubly good for the old guys.....I do a lot of sit ups so that I can continue to do that stuff.....when I get old enough that only at ATV will allow me to do so.....I'll use an ATV (or jet-pack, if the scientists hurry up).

Actually, we should do away with ALL laws requiring guides.....if I get lost on public property, it's MY problem.


Within the shadows, go quietly.
 
Hey SPAZ,
Is it alright if I call you a SPAZ???? Have you ever hunted in an OPEN unit, on public land during a general season? If not then it is clear why you dont understand where I am coming from.
If so then maybe you live in your own little world where everyone respects eachother and trys not to bump into or interphere in anyway. In either case you would not understand.
I am trying not to turn this into a whats legal and whats not or IT PUBLIC or its private. For your info they were illegal being where they were, but that is not what Im trying to point out, had they been with a someone who knows area they would not have been there. Thanks for your input..
 
Ruttnbuck, I only hunt public land in OPEN units in the general season, every year. I do very well and get an elk every year, sometimes with archery. I don't run into many hunters, the ones I do are always residents, it's part of the game. Sometimes they screw my days up, and I'd bet there's times I screw theirs up. I've never seen an ATV where I hunt. If I did, there'd be trouble and authorities involved. I doubt I'd whine about restricting other hunters on the internet. Grow a sack.
 
So here you are, whining about your lack of success and your arsenal of solutions are mandatory guide laws and choose your weapon... pathetic.
 
Sounds to me like it's just hunting public land. Yep, sometimes things don't go just the way you like it or another hunter messes up an opportunity for you. Sucks, but that's hunting. If you don't like it you can always pay to hunt private land instead of trying to require everybody else to have to pay to hire a guide.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-13-10 AT 04:49PM (MST)[p]I understand what you are saying RUTTNBUCKS and it does suck. But, I have yet to find bulls close to a road or ATV trail on public land during the general hunting season. They may be there all summer, but when the season starts, the elk will be gone. It usually is due to other hunters, doesn't really matter if they are in-state or out of state. I really can't blame them since they are out hunting as well.

This is my opinion of a solution and some have already hinted towards it. Find the the place where the bulls go after they have been pushed off the easy or close areas or find a spot so deep, secluded, etc., that you will not have to worry about even seeing any other hunters. I am pretty sure Montana or anyother western state has those areas of public land where nobody but the animals go or the really crazy hunters. I have been walking back from places during the general season when a group of horse hunters come up to me and let me know how crazy I am...That was ok with me, I was heading back to get the pack animals with blood on my shoes.
 
I have had similar things happen to me. But never once did it cross my mind that requiring a guide like WY or AK (only for goats, bears and sheep by the way) was any kind of solution.

We have the same right to the public ground and animals on it. Really who cares if you were scouting that herd of elk all summer.... What does that say aobut it if a group of outof staters can find your honey hole on day one?
 
Yeah,
Screw those bumbling ignorant idiot nonresidents.
Bad mouth them, vandalize their vehicles, raise the price of their licenses, harrass them at the trailhead etc...etc...etc...


That is till YOU are the nonresident right?

Bullsh*t.
HH
 
I am a nonresident and drew the Missouri Breaks for archery elk last year. I hunted my a** off and I too had to deal with the folks riding four wheelers all over the hills. I saw several shooter bulls but just couldn't close the distance for a shot. I still had a very good hunt. As for making the nonresident have a guide, that is ridiculous. I think if you had your "honey hole" all spotted out, you should have probably set up camp a week or two before the hunt started. Remember it is public land and we all have the right to be there and enjoy the hunting. If your having this much heartburn hunting public land, get permission and hunt some private land.
 
I couln't agree more with Rutnbucks. I live in CO and every single year I have the same experiences he has. Most out of staters simply do not have the respect for the land and other hunters as do the locals. They think they have to bring 80 yds of carpet with them and just leave it at camp when their done. They think every trail, closed or not, is a 4-wheeler trail. I dont know how many times I've been on National Forest and had some dickhead come putting up the the trail on his quad. This is Colorado not California or any other sh!thole state. We dont wanna see our state looking like yours.

Dont get me wrong I have met some great out of staters and dont think I'm dumb enough to generalize ALL out of staters as the same but I guarantee there are people that are reading this right now, and you know who you are, that do this type of crap. Have some respect for the wilderness and other hunters!


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Ruttnbucks this is not a resident/non-resident issue. This is a public land hunting, ethics/courtesy issue. If you want to persuade people to your way of thinking it helps by not offending the majority of your audience (non-residents) with your opening statements.

Also get your facts straight before you want to emulate another state's regulations. Non-residents can hunt alaska without a guide/outfitter for all but several species (brown/grizzly bear, sheep & goat) even then they can hunt those species if they have a first of kin related resident.

Every one of us who hunts public land deals with frustration caused by others using that same public land. You need to learn to roll with the punches and adapt your hunting strategies or else find some private land to hunt. That my friend is just how it is.
 
"Most out of staters simply do not have the respect for the land and other hunters as do the locals."


"Don't think I'm dumb enough to generalize ALL out of staters as the same."

Ok.
 
Rutnbucks, I would recommend you start your own hunting show. You could teach all of the green horns how reel hunters do-it. Give me a break. Public land is Multi Use as long as your not breaking laws and using good sense be care-ful and have fun.BasinBoy
 
Let me make this VERY VERY CLEAR..
You are crazy if you dont think that I have a plan B or C for that matter as a backup if something is to go wrong or if someone has beat me to my sweet spot. I always do, that is not the point. I was raised to be the kind of hunter that if someone has beat you to the spot, you go on to the backup plan out of respect for the other hunter!

My statment about the wisconsin hunters was'nt meant to be an attack on them personally because I did get to know them and when I found out that it was there first time out west after elk, I gave them some good advice starting with "maybe you should'nt have a big camp where you plan to hunt". I am not saying that the only answere is banning all self guided hunts that was just a thought. MT is beautiful and everyone should have a chance at enjoying it I just would like to see something done a little 'DIFFERENT' than it is now. Dont hang me PLEASE.
I think choosing your weapon would work great but that is just me. Common courtesy and good old hunting ETHICS is all Im asking for.
 
So laughin.
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Yeah, you know how us Californians are. it just comes naturally.

You nonresident haters don't hunt too much do you.
Otherwise you would know damn well what it feels like to be one.

Born2,
You are the dude that was defending the wolf introduction weren't you?

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I hear what your saying Ruttn. I think the topic has strayed off a little bit. Resident or Nonresident isnt what makes the difference. I know your just giving your experiences in particular. I believe its the weekend warriors vs. the dedicated hunters. All, and I do mean all, dedicated hunters have the utmost respect for the ethics and morals when it comes to hunting. All dedicated hunters also obey all laws in any given state. I think its all too common for the average joe to watch a Primos elk video and think, "Wow Elk hunting is easy". And then you will find those same people quading around the woods, stopping once in a while to let a bugle. I used to live in Montana and know that they probably could make some changes. Your right, chosing your weapon would make a difference and I am all for it. Its scary to see some of these weeekend warriors sighting in their bow for the first time in camp. Are you frickn kidding me. These are the same people that dont have any respect for the land, animals or fellow hunters. I guess these people will have to learn the hard way. Montana could and probably should, also control some of their hunting pressure in some of the units. It took me one hunt for elk in the bitteroots, during rifle season, to learn that that particular area was not for me. When I do go back and hunt Montana and try to look for the most unlikely spot and hunt elk there. It is amazing that you can find elk in the most unlikely spots sometimes. I, as probably every dedicated hunter, has had similar incidents as yours. It is frustrating hunting on public land and its just part of the game. But it makes that much better when you are able to harvest something DYI on public ground. Good luck out there.
 
If this is about people being stupid in the way they hunt...Shouldn't all hunters need to use a guide? I have had some of my best hunts ruined by good hunters that made a mistake. I am also sure I have made more than a few of my own mistakes and ruined somebody else?s hunt. What about the people who don't use the right camo, the right scents, or the right calls. Different strokes for different folks.

I hunted the Mt. Dutton in Utah for elk two years ago. I never hunted within a mile of a road. I hiked my butt of and never was able to kill a bull. The same year I met an older guy who could not hike very much. He was driving down the road on a quad and a 380 + bull ran across the road in front of him. He stopped the quad, bugled and the bull ran back to him. He killed the bull with a 20 yard shot not more than 20 yards off his quad. He was like the two guys you describe. His hunt was not what I would like to do but it was his hunt.

I have seen people camp in the wrong places, bugle/cow call off quads and from trucks, hunt in blue jeans, ignore the wind etc. All of these things were wrong in my opinion but that's all part of the hunt. I have also seen guides do some really stupid things like illegaly claim water holes, post public property, and trespass. I have even turned in a few guides in Utah for poaching or spotlighting.

Also the comment on Nonresidents not respecting the land as much as the residents must be a joke. I lived in Colorado and there are some people who really love and respect the land and then there are those who don't. Take a drive through any Colorado town and you will see trash and debris left on the side of the roads (just like every other state in the U.S). I am sure some is coming from the pesky tourist but I would bet more than a few beer that most is from the residents. I guess these residents who destroy their own towns clean up their acts when they are in the woods?

Just remmember that we are all non-resident hunters somewhere.
 
I hear what you're saying but you can't control what other people do. Hunting public land is tuff no matter what state you're hunting in. Scouting an area for several weeks or months before hand is good to learn the area but if you're not in that sweet spot opening morning you might as well plan for some where's else. Mature deer & elk aint gonna stick around when the fun begins. As far as ATV's i for one think there should be more restrictions on there use & not just in Montana Handicapped, the elderly no problem but it burns my butt to be closing in for the shot to have some yahoo just out joy riding & thinking they're hunting!

7 Mag
 
>sithtine,
>You are not understanding the thread
>or my frustrations so that
>leads me to think that
>you are not in the
>hills much.
>To the guy that hunts elk
>alot you understand that you
>must be careful and really
>hunt smart that means you
>dont set up camp right
>smack dab in the middle
>of bedding ground do you????
>You must know that if
>you hunt as hard as
>I think you do. The
>issue is not a legal
>one, it is a matter
>of keeping this sport from
>being over run by a
>bunch of fly by night
>hunters, the kind of guys
>that go wherever they want
>and do whatever they want.
>

sounds like you should have put up a sign that said "dont camp here good elk hunting"then those a-hole fly bys would have went some place where there were no elk!!!
 
Holy cow guys,

I don't think we need to hang him.

I think this is a legitimate issue.

Probably not one that we can or will do anything about, but that is just good ol' public land hunting.

I had this experience last year in Utah (I am a resident). We were hunting Memorial weekend for Elk, as we always do. We know that is a busy weekend. Man how I wish they would shut down the mountains for nothing but hunting!!! But that ain't gonna happen. So, we get out and away from the crowds. We are into Elk and doing our thing when all of a sudden we hear pistol shots being fired over our heads. Now this was not just rude, I was scared. This was a safety issue!

Needless to say, we screamed and hollared and waived our hands until we got their attention and we made it out of there without being shot.

Who would've thought we would run into some guys drinkin beer and shootin pistols that far off the trail?

My point is this is a very real issue.

We don't need to hang him.
 
"Don't get me wrong"
Born2hunt and Ruttnbucks both use this line after attacking out of state hunters. I don't think anybody could get you wrong. You are obviously either extremely ignorant or very stupid as proven buy your statements. I don't think you need to worry a bit about anybody getting you wrong, I think most of the people reading this post have you pretty well pegged.
 
I once spent a whole summer scouting the hill's and valley's around my little town of Green Valley, Az. it was the first year I qualified as a resident. Hiked many,many mile's hotter than hell down here in Southern Az in the summer but I was determined to find a good spot to hunt. Found this great little water hole surrounded by the tracks of deer and pigs. It was in a box canyon with no road any where close to it. Eight miles from my backdoor, figured no one would or could find it and I would get my deer opening morning, screwed up and over slept that day didnt get to my spot till nearly 1/2 hour past sunup.
Drove as close as I could. Started my hike in . Got almost to the opening of the canyon and there in the midle of the trail sat a man in a wheelchair. Man was I surprised. He could tell was I was headed and let me know right away and very politely that he had 2 young son's up in the canyon watching my water hole. Not a darn thing I could do. Public land and they were there first. I was a little disgusted but mostly with myself. Decided to take another trail that went around the box canyon and try my luck there . Hiked in about a mile and by now it was well past sunup. Figured no way was I gonna get my deer today. Kept walking and about 1/2 mile further in I heard rocks rattle down the hill to my right and when I looked I saw nice fat Whitetail buck running up the hill and away from me. He was just a 3 point, I could barely see his antlers but I did see em/ Swung that 3030 Winchester, fired one quick shot and got lucky, snapped his spine right at the base of the neck. He rolled down the hill through some cactus and stopped about 40 yards from my feet. Field dressed him,threw him over my shoulder and hiked back to the truck. Pure satifaction on my face. The other guys kids didnt score that day. So my point is sometimes the other hunters are a great big help , myself I have learned to use them to to my advantage when it comes to hunting. Especially when I'm in an area I dont know to well. Do some guys do stupid thing's? You bet all of us do at one time or another.Suck it up, ignore the one's you can and report that ones that break the law. But most of all enjoy the time you have to hunt and dont let others get you down. Chances are you will never see them again.
 
Public land....Public land hunters. If you had your elk all spotted like you said..spent lots of time and money into finding them, then you did not hunt them opening day, thats your fault! No fault of someone else to set up in the area you scouted and then failed to hunt when it came time..sorry..you snooze, you lose! simple as that!
If you think that the laws about who can hunt your state should be changed so that NR's can only hunt with a guide..then maybe in your mind it would be right if ALL states were like that. Good!!... Then dont come to Nevada without a guide please!! I don't want you coming to my area that i scouted all summer long...Please stay home where you belong!

Didn't sound like anybody did anything wrong...except maybe you.
 
I suppose it is a frustration that many of us experience, but I appreciate how much public land we have to hunt. If the hunters were riding the ATVs where they weren't supposed to, then that is a problem. Otherwise, it is a case of typical public land hunting.

I find that the ratio of good to poor hunters: resident and nonresident, to be similar. I find more locals abusing the land through misuse of ATVs. Overall, I find both residents and nonresidents to be polite, friendly, and willing to "share the land."

I tend to go out of the way to give advice to nonresidents as there is plenty of game for all, though they tend to have a harder time dealing with the altitude and terrain. We went back into an area on the opening day of the bow hunt last year. A guy from Minnesota was camped out in the general area we liked to hunt. No hard feelings. He didn't have much luck, though we pointed him to some specific areas that tend to hold elk. We didn't point him to the ones we were hunting a few hundred yards to the North of his tent. In some areas the animals are more sensitive to human encroachment than in others.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-14-10 AT 01:19AM (MST)[p]born 2 hunt and rutnbucks...what a pair of idiots.

Try getting out of your home town, there is a world beyond it. This subject is the most ignorant thing that can be discussed, and it boils down to uneducated idiots that think they are entitled to something..YOUR NOT ENTITLED TO #####.
 
I am going to start my response by apologizing for the thick sarcasm you are about to encounter!

This topic is absolutely ridiculous. If you don't want NR hunters in Montana, fine. Then park your rear end in Montana and never hunt anywhere else. Ever. Give up any and all bonus/preference points you have accumulated in other states and stay home.

It's the only fair way to do things, if that's what you really desire. We can't hunt "there", you can't hunt "here"

End of story.

Oh, one last thing - I drew tags in Montana this year and guess what; I'm not a resident of Montana! Oh, the injustice!

Don't worry though...I have a sneaking suspicion we will not run into each other. Rest assured, however, that I will not be on an ATV (because I don't own one) nor will I hunt "your" elk. I will find my own!

Cheers!


Raghorn Hunting Services
www.raghornhuntingservices.com
[email protected]
http://raghornhs.blogspot.com
 
>>I gave them some good advice starting with "maybe you should'nt have a big camp where you plan to hunt". I am not saying that the only answere is banning all self guided hunts that was just a thought.<<

Hmmm, maybe the advice should have been "maybe you should'nt have a big camp where I plan to hunt". If they had planned to hunt there, they likely wouldn't have camped there, eh?



TONY MANDILE
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How To Hunt Coues Deer
 
>>I had this experience last year in Utah (I am a resident). We were hunting Memorial weekend for Elk, as we always do. We know that is a busy weekend.<<

The antlers are still kinda little then aren't they? }>


TONY MANDILE
48e63dfa482a34a9.jpg

How To Hunt Coues Deer
 
this is hilarious it sounds like born2 hit the nail right on the ignorant nonresident head and riled him up. i loved the wolf comment, couldn't think of anything to say so he went below the belt.and you wanna talk about wolves, its all you punk clueless californians transpanted up here in montana and wyoming who are protecting these damn wolves. and don't worry about any of us being nonresidents in california we avoid that place like the damn plague. i've hunted other states and have always been treated great, but maybe that because i have respect for the land and animals, hunt the right way, and clean up my shiz.
 
>I have
>a few, what if we
>adopt Alaskas Law where you
>either go with a resident
>or outfitter ie babysitter??

Oh, yeah, that's an awesome idea (NOT)! I hunt solo, by necessity, not choice, because I can't find anyone within 100 miles of home with the same dedication for DIY backpack hunting. Last year, I hiked 8-10 miles with 55 pounds on my back every Saturday morning in the Texas heat for six months to prepare for the elk season. Now, you're suggesting a law that would require me to find someone thousands of miles away to "babysit" me? That would make things worse for me! I'd probably end up with a local who couldn't keep up with me. What the heck good would that do?????
 
Maybe if you're lucky, in the event of a rule like that, you'd end up with somebody like RUTTNBUCK as your guide or outfitter. He could set you up on some crowded circle-jerk piece of forest and tell you about how everybody else is ruining the hunting, and that he saw an elk once.
 
Hey SPAZ,
Where do you live?? If your not to embarressed to answere that question? That would answere alot of my questions I have for you? Im gonna guess CA or something like that!
 
So now you want to make blanket comments about people who live in one state or another Ruttnbucks. If someone doesn't agree with you they must be from California. I would be careful about that since you are from Montana. I mean everybody knows what they say about those lonely Montana sheep herders and how some of those ewes start lookin pretty damn cute to you boys, and by your logic I know you are a sheep herder because you come from Montana and all you boys up there in Montana either heard or date sheep right?.
 
I'll "answere" -- I live in Montana. My grandfather was born in the ranch house bedroom that I grew up in.

I got one for you - "git yer elk" last year?
 
BIGMASS,
You are right I should not steriotype all Californians at being liberals because even though most are there are exceptions, So I do appologize to the few that are not that I might have offended. I am not dumb enuf to think that Everyone who might live in CA are Californians, if you know what I mean. I know there are some studly folks down there. You might want to do your research however because MT is Beef country and not sheep and yes there are times they look pretty good.LOL
 
"You might want to do your research however because MT is Beef country and not sheep and yes there are times they look pretty good.LOL"

I guess that explains the step-stool in the back of your truck. The real issue here is you're just angry those non-ressy's were interferring with your alone time with the local heifers.
 
This post is a joke! We should be talking about more important things such as controlling the wolves, not the Non-Residents!

7 Mag
 
At this point i would have to agree with you, it is clear to me that no body is understanding what I meant when I started this thread. If you reread and pay close attention to what I said, I was'nt sure what needs to happen but was throwing out a few ideas. It is clear that i did'nt get what I was hoping for, which was some other ideas I was just getting some emotional non residents that were upset because they feel that I am sold on preventing them from hunting out of state which is totally not true. I personally feel that MT F&G needs to do something different in managing there animals more like some other states out there. Because we dont see the quality of game that we should. So if you dont have anything DIFFERENT to say then why say it. Just one question that I cant seem to find the answere too.

Montana gives out a total of 16890.00 non res Elk and DEER combo permits between DIY and outfitter tags, what does your state give out?? Now if I am going to pay to go out of state to hunt I would want to go somewhere I know i will see quality animals, and the way things ARE in Mt you dont. That was my reasoning in starting this thread. How does Utah get such Big Bulls and Muleys? Or NV, CO and WY.. I know they allow non res hunters, so that is not the answere. If this thread does'nt change you wont here from me. Thanks Boyz
 
I read what you typed twice. Laughed and shook my head both times because even within that 2nd grade grammer I can still recognize a whining and clueless crybaby.

No doubt, FWP could better manage game, but don't compare MT public land elk hunting to UT limited elk units. How often to Utah residents get to hunt elk in those premium areas? There's plenty of quality hunting and great animals in MT though not so easy to come across, nor should it be.

I agree with 7. Kill the wolves, not the hunters.
 
RUTTNBUCKS:

I think the guide idea is a joke. Different people hunt with different styles. I agree with you some are clueless and can hurt others hunts. That being said, I think hunters should choose a season (i.e. archery rifle or muzzleloader). The image of people showing up and setting up their bows for a hunt is terrible but is that any worse than the guy who does not sight in his rifle till he is in camp (if at all)?

Long and short, I have elk hunted in Utah more times than I can count. I would gladyly trade a chance at Mt. elk hunting of Utah general season. JMO.
 
Ruttnbucks you now say nobody understands what you meant in your first post. Well we understood what you wrote in that post and that is why you're catching flak for it. Maybe you need to learn to communicate what you really mean instead of what you write.

Now you are trying to claim you meant something other than what you wrote. If you are going to say something controversial, then at least have the cajones to stand behind what you said when you get opposition to it. Your waffling pissed away any credibility you might have had. So here's a big F.U. from a non-resident.
 
Judas Priest just deal with a couple bone-heads once in a while, we all do! Thats why we live in America....land of the free. I would rather deal with an idiot once in a while than keep restricting access!




Sit tall in the saddle, hold your head up high, keep your eyes fixed to where the trail meets the sky...
 
Wow, as a Montana resident, I have to agree with most everyone here. Where the hell did those comments and ideas come from?

You may say that what you wrote is not what you meant, or something similar, but I have read it many times, and it was very condescending, arrogant, and offensive. Probably even more so to a non-resident lumped into one of your categories.

A little background on what NRs do for MT. Yes, we give away 17,000 elk/deer combo licenses and 5,500 deer only licenses. That may offend some residents, but it is due to this situation that our resident fees are so low, as to the point of embarrassment.

And it is the premium paid by non-residents on the outfitter guaranteed licenses that funds over 7 million acres of Block Management property open to public hunting.

I live here and hunt deer and elk every year. It seems impossible to NOT fill your deer tag in MT, unless you decide to not hunt.

If you don't fill your bull elk tag every other year, you need to find different areas, or try different strategies. And given how many of our units allow both cows or bulls, not filling a tag with a cow elk, seems to be a function of not wanting to fill the tag.

Every year, I help many, many, non-residents. Everyone of them have been great guys. They have helped me when I might be hunting a state they are familiar with.

If NRs were such a problem, I wonder why it is that I am always picking up trash from camps with resident vehicles parked nearby; why I am so often reporting residents for tresspassing; why I see the Bozeman court report full of game violations, and the overwhelming majority of them are resident hunters.

I would guess the percentage of idiot hunters is the same among both residents and non-residents. Thankfully, idoits are the small minority in both groups.

Not sure what message Ruttnbucks was trying to convey, as after he stated it, he kept trying to say he meant something else.

Whatever he meant to say and what I read of his posts, is not reflective of my opinion of NRs, and is not reflective of the opinion most other Montana hunters have of NRs.

We have lots of game, lots of land to hunt, and if we can't accomodate hunting by those who are paying most of our frieght (NRs), then we have got a problem.

My message to NRs is - Welcome to Montana. Come and hunt hard, have a great time, and leave your greenbacks in the local towns. And join the many great conservation groups who are doing wonderful work to protect habitat in Montana, so we all have better hunting, residents and non-residents alike.

Good luck to all who drew your MT tags this year.

"Hunt when you can - You're gonna' run out of health before you run out of money!"
 
BigFin, By far the best post i've ever read in regards to a Resident backing the Non-Residents!!

Thankyou!

7 Mag
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-14-10 AT 05:03PM (MST)[p]

tufcntry (160 posts)
Apr-14-10, 08:30 AM (MST)
43. "RE: Montana puts new bans on non-res hunters!"


Quote:

"this is hilarious it sounds like born2 hit the nail right on the ignorant nonresident head and riled him up. i loved the wolf comment, couldn't think of anything to say so he went below the belt.and you wanna talk about wolves, its all you punk clueless californians transpanted up here in montana and wyoming who are protecting these damn wolves. and don't worry about any of us being nonresidents in california we avoid that place like the damn plague. "


"i've hunted other states and have always been treated great, but maybe that because i have respect for the land and animals, hunt the right way, and clean up my shiz."
End Quote:/



like I don't.
Blow it out your ass punk.
Below the belt?
Using born2hunt's own words is hitting below the belt?

LOL!
What a P.O.S.
You are obviously new to this site.

This California wolf hugger has a message for you and your nonresident hating buddies.....

wlf5tk.jpg



Truth is us nonresidents make up a piss poor percentage of the hunters you encounter in the woods.
I highly doubt that most of the slobs you encounter are nonresidents based simply on the percentages.
I see all the same shitt going on as you but mostly resident camps & plates.

No quad in my garage jackass, just back packs and retired tack.

Have a nice day, let's do lunch!

HH
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-14-10 AT 08:28PM (MST)[p]On a related thought. As a non-res of a western state without out time to pre-scout but a couple days, how do I know I'm not camping in someone's honey hole? If I dont see elk or step on fresh sign, my camp goes there if its near an area I want to access (1/2 to 1 mile), but at the end of the day its at the end some 2 track or FS road. I could easily see camping where an elk has slept recently. Is there a way to avoid this when you are in good country?

Bill in MI
 
Definite "non-resident" behavior! Did you get their license plate numbers and determine which state these "non-resident" perpetrators where from? LOL, give me a break. Hunter Harry is spot on with his comments.

This post is ignorant. I hunt many western states and can honestly say that the vast majority of foolish/illegal behavior I have witnessed was by resident "locals". Call them Hicks, Rednecks, in-breeders, what have you, it is usually the local boys out there road hunting, party hunting, spot-lighting, spilling empty beer cans out on the road when they jump out of their truck to shoot the forkie behind the private property sign, etc. You get my point.

The non-residents, for the most part have much more invested in the hunt and are generally more serious sportsmen. This is proven many times over every fall. Why do you think in many states that non-residents post a higher success rate than the local residents? It's not that a few of them are guided, they take it more seriously. They aren't "weekend warriors" out to have a few beers with the boys, they are there to hunt!

Several years ago two of my hunting partners and I went 3 for 3 on branch antlered bull elk in a general hunting district in Montana. It did take us several trips spread out over about 4 weeks to do this. When I looked into the success rate for the unit I was surprised to learn that it was only about 10%, and the vast majority of bulls killed were spikes. This just shows that as a general rule, nonresidents are more serious about getting it done.

We have all had bad experiences hunting on public land. I don't think I'm alone when I say that most of my bad experiences were caused by "Locals" not "Nonresidents". People are people and will make mistakes. You're painting "Nonresidents" with far too wide of a brush. Back off with your generalizations.

Smokepoler63
 
Bill, I guess there is, we could stay home, NOT!

HH, still laughin. :)

As far as Kalifornia goes, slow your roll.

This country has a Liberal President and Congress. Does that make all Americans Liberal???

Kalifornia has 54 counties. Obama won 7 of em. 7 counties denied the proposition that would have allowed mountain lion huntin. 7 counties in this state have voted for a Democratic President every election since Regan. I can tell you that 7 counties determine how the rest of us live and the laws we have to follow. Basically they are Los Angeles and San Francisco.

Nevada has the same problem with Clark County (Las Vegas) Doesn't make Nevadans Liberal. Northern Kali and Nevada should unite and split from our Southern neighbors.

Just another example of your ignorance Rutnbucks. Don't know that on public land you have to deal with the public nor anything about a state whose citizens you quickly slandered. But you kinda backed of that too. Your backing up is called "pi$$in down your leg" in my world.
 
RUTTNBUCKS, I do understand your pain ive been there a thousand times but unfortunately a big part of wildlife agencys buggets come from non res tag sales and once they pay they have just as much right to do it wromg as you and i to do it right as for the atv incident as you and i spoke on the trail cam post you posted on i would have walked 10 miles to assure it never ever ran again if indeed it was as far back as you say and it shouldnt have been there you are always going to have these honey holes gone bad i had a spot i had been killing monster muleys for 10 years and as soom as DEADIBOB found it it has never been the same lol sorry rob couldnt resist!!!!!
 
WTF guys, back off of Ruttnbucks, poor fella is just mis-understood....NOT!
You guessed it, I'm another one of them dumb-ass, spotted owl saving, tree hugging, kitty loving liberals from Kalifornia. The quads I hunt elk with have four hooves each and carry my ass far from folks like you. Probably a good thing, cause I would hate to lock horns with you and get whooped by some young piss ant that knows little of this land.

HH, thats the best looking wolf I've seen in a long time! A guy I met up north when I was a youngster used to make'em look good too! He had a Super cub and an old AR-15 (improved). Good combo!


Norkal


INVEST IN LEAD FOR THE TIMES AHEAD!
 
Ropinfool
Looks like ...

NO Barren Ground Grizzly Bear
NO Alaska Brown Bear
NO Grizzly Bear
NO Polar Bear
NO Barren Ground Muskox
NO Muskox
NO Alaska Yukon Barren Ground Caribou
NO Central Canada Barren Ground Caribou
NO Mountain Caribou
NO Quebec Labrador Caribou
NO Woodland Caribou
NO Canada Lynx
NO Whitetailed deer
NO Rocky Mountain Goat
NO Columbia Blacktail Deer
NO Northeastern Whitetail Deer
NO Sitka Blacktail Deer
NO Southeastern Whitetail Deer
NO Texas Whitetail Deer
NO Roosevelt Elk
NO Tule Elk
NO Shiras Moose
NO Alaska Yukon Moose
NO Eastern Canada Moose
NO Western Canada Moose
NO California Bighorn Sheep
NO Dall Sheep
NO Stone Sheep
NO Wolverine.

No Arizona tags, No Wyoming tags, No Utah tags, No Montana tags, No Colorado tags, No Nevada tags, No Idaho tags, No Oregon tags, No Washington tags, No California tags :)))

For you and your friends.
Congratulations!
You chose well.
:)
 
How about this... if you weren't born in MT you shouldn't get a hunting license. Crowding "problem" solved.

While we're at it lets take it one step further and limit it so that you can only hunt in the county you reside... There are more hunters in some counties than there are total residents.

I'm kidding of course...

Montana has some issues but its hardly due to NR hunter pressure.
 
I wonder if these out of state idiots, who are hunting public land, and paying a lot of money to do so, know how to hyphenate?

Couldn't
Wouldn't
don't
doesn't


Just trying to help out.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-19-10 AT 08:31PM (MST)[p]Rutt,

I can see how you feel hosed, but practically everyone who has hunted for a while is victim of somebody else screwing up our hunt. There are always going to be new hunters in the field who make mistakes - resident and nonresident. I'd bet money you've made a few of your own. In addition there are genuine, insecure jerks in the field - resident and nonresident.

I've learned to love hunting public land in the high pressure areas. I love opening morning. I love hearing all of the shooting. There are no secrets opening day. You can hear where the good spots are. I've learned to take the good with the bad. I've had people pressure deer to me,and I had them pressure away from me. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. The more time you put in the more successful you will be over time, doesn't mean you'll score every time.

Keep after it next year. Things change every year. I'll bet you'll be alone if the areas are really as remote as you say they are.
 
Rutt I understand I've been there. Used to hunt the rubies behind Dillon the last time I hunted there I saw more Washington plates then Montana ones.Some of them started bragging about going in at night on a ranch and chasing the elk out of the fields and up into the public and block management lands and that made them their elk.What a joke! Now that ranch bought the B.M.lands and shut off all access.I don't think there is a solution like it's been said resident or non there is always a handful that ruin it for everyone. :(
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-20-10 AT 08:09AM (MST)[p]Out of staters S$#K! I am soooooooo sick of that whine!Every out of stater wrecks everything.....I have picked up truck loads of trash in Colorado and all of it with Denver news papers and Colorado magazine addresses? What you never hear? "THANK YOU NONRESIDENTS for boosting our econemy and all your money support for our wildlife that makes my hunting so good."Noooooo we are allways the bad guys.Wake up,without us your $30 dollar licence may cost YOU $500......Jim
 
Are we sure that this Ruttinbuck fella is old enough to be hunting alone? I'd wager that his mom's gonna be pissed when she finds him posting silly things on her computer.
 
We have a good saddle where the elk moved from valley in NM we put 3 bulls to bed and thought the next day was going to be a easy time in killing a bull we show back up about 4:30 a:m the next day and sitting in the saddle on a 4x4 trail is a travel trailer They had to beat the hell out of it to drag it up that trail that far. LOL.
The guys come out as we come walking up we asked WHY did you guys camp, where the elk cross every day. They said because we hunt the other end and we would like them to cross down there where we hunt,YES we knew that they been crossing here but was hoping they will cross where we are setup now..LOL(don't know why they just didn't hunt them right there)
Well they never got any bulls and we ended up tagging out on the 5th day in another spot.
But some guys just don't know they are in a hotspot or worse yet they don't care.If That trailer wasn't in that spot, I sure we could of killed at least two of those bulls that morning.But it was good thing we had a plan B and C and D in the works. We killed in Plan C


"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
 

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