Mitt WTH

manny53

Long Time Member
Messages
5,257
it funny to me how mitt can use god little g of course, to be the scape goat for him voting to remove Trump from office when he knows full well all evangelicals support Trump; mormons are wierd n i doubt mitt truly represents them anyways...Rhino comes to mind...
 
founder' you are in the minority like mitt n he won't have a job in utah again, mark my words n Remember, Romney Signed a permanent assault-weapons ban as governor of the Bay State.
“Deadly assault weapons have no place in Massachusetts,” Romney said at the July 1, 2004, signing ceremony. “These guns are not made for recreation or self-defense. They are instruments of destruction with the sole purpose of hunting down and killing people.” loser. #ID2AA
 
Maybe in the minority, but I think he’s guilty of trying to get a little help from Ukraine.
 
Founder, set aside the guilty argument. Do you think we should look into the possible corruption with the Bidens? I sure do.
 
Founder, My argument to you would be, TRUMP cant be impeached, constitutionaly, without a High Crime,Or mistomeaner. THERE needs to be a DEFINED CRIME. Not a policy. Not a guideline of some kind, not even if he's icky. A defined crime, that meets the Constitutions requirements. AND I might add AS WRITTEN, and NOT an interpitation.
Lets say Trump called volinski and said straight up your not getting the money until you ruin bidens chances as a dem canadate.
Dems claim quib pro quo, so where is the money at this time, what investigation was started, and without the dems impeachment fiasco, would the american dem. Voter have ever known about bidens kid being a corrupt drug addict, kicked out of the military looser. The dems blew biden out of the water themselves. Anyway where is the EVIDENCE, not hearsay,mind you, that a HIGH CRIME occured.
 
Not an Impeachable offense so how can he vote to convict. Most of these peoples ego's have got so out of control they cannot button their suit coat, dress or put on a hat. They sit around and profess "I stand with the American People" "The constitution" this or that. A good share of them are on the take in one form or another. I like that Trump has stepped in and started shaking up their secret little world's. They hate him for it. If Utah stays with Mitt R. it will show what robots we have become. He is a flip flop joke. At least the GOP has become somewhat united over this whole Impeach 45 Maxine Water's 3 year Joke
 
The verdict was acquittal on both charges by the highest justice in the land so the dems failed to prove their case on both counts. If you really want to get technical they fell far short of the 67 votes to remove him from office. Acquittal is pretty much a verdict of innocent in all legal terms applicable in our courts of law. Acquittal means NOT GUILTY so it's time to actually face reality, the case collapsed under it's own weight and perhaps if they had given him due process they may have wound up with a different result. EVERY single SENATOR in that room knew what was going on and his right's were violated. The simple fact the false rhetoric didn't change that and the final vote shows it on both counts. The final verdict was done in accordance to the rules and they were a long ways off from removal from office. Those facts are indisputable and absolute. It was a political lynching but the senators stopped the mob before the lawless vigilantes could hang him, using the law and the rules available to them. The law and legal process worked just as it should.
 
Founder, set aside the guilty argument. Do you think we should look into the possible corruption with the Bidens? I sure do.
Maybe, but based on all the facts I saw, I believe 99% of the reason Trump did what he did was to hurt Joe Biden in his election run. I think the Biden tie with Ukraine was just the perfect excuse to ask Ukraine to announce an investigation. That’s just my opinion.
I believe when Trump says “it was the perfect call”, he’s not saying he didn’t do anything wrong, he’s saying he worded it perfect for the situation and it’s not provable that he did anything wrong. I guess he’s right. I still think he did what accused of, but it don’t matter.
 
Founder you're probably right in some ways, but the dems created their own doubt in this mess by completely gutting the system to change the rules. Those changes and omitting testimony and evidence didn't help them convince the guys making the final decisions what they did was forthright. REMEMBER some members of the GOP heard the testimony they choose to omit. It's politics and virtue isn't a word in any of their vocabulary's let alone a binding factor in their lives. Look what they did to Kavanaugh and his family......just sayin.....
 
Biden isn't and wasn't ever gonna get the nomination. Could it be, maybe, just maybe, he is actually trying to drain the swamp like he said he would? And you still haven't said what exactly you think he's guilty of...
 
Is it a high crime and/or misdemeanor to ASK someone to investigate corruption? If the Bidens were innocent you'd think they would welcome the investigation.

There was no threat to withhold money until Trump got the results he supposedly wanted.
 
Also, a few people have posted the video of biden boasting about blackmailing Ukraine with aide. Where is your anger over that? The president has the power, and responsibility to ask for investigations Into corruption.
 
Yes Founder, Tell us your opinion of Our ex VP committing a real QUID PRO QUO on camera and laughing and bragging about it?
 
Mitt was true to his beliefs and his conscience. He was up to his eyeballs in the Burisma corruption with the Bidens and he will stand by it. He had no choice but to vote guilty on abuse of power.
 
Maybe, but based on all the facts I saw, I believe 99% of the reason Trump did what he did was to hurt Joe Biden in his election run. I think the Biden tie with Ukraine was just the perfect excuse to ask Ukraine to announce an investigation. That’s just my opinion.
I believe when Trump says “it was the perfect call”, he’s not saying he didn’t do anything wrong, he’s saying he worded it perfect for the situation and it’s not provable that he did anything wrong. I guess he’s right. I still think he did what accused of, but it don’t matter.
Founder, Joe Biden is a career politician has held no other jobs. He and his family have become wealthy because of it. He is corrupt like a lot of our leaders by indirectly through family members and other means have gotten access to the treasury. Biden was never any threat to Trumps re-election. The guy has lost every presidential primary he's ever entered. The guy is a dud, senile and very frail he NEVER had a chance he will be gone by super Tuesday. Trump and every one else in Washington knows it. Bloomberg is going to be the Dem nominee ....... again it's all about the money.
 
Founder just FYI the average board member salary in the U.S is 60 K. a year. The 80K per month Hunter Biden made would have put him in the top 10 of fortune 500 company board compensation. I bet ole Mitt would have paid him that to sit on HIS private equity company!
 
Pierre Delecto is a fraud and his vote like all never Trumpers is based on bitterness & spite. He claimed he wanted to hear from Bolton & Mulvaney. How is it possible to assign guilt if he didn't as he claimed have all the facts or hear all the testimony? America & the rule of law won as it should. No crime was alleged in the articles and this was dead on arrival and the dems knew it. But they went ahead anyway. They could give a crap about the American people as the whole world saw last night and they made painfully clear during the SOTU. Do the right thing and vote these losers out of office in November. Meanwhile the dems will continue to search for a crime to pin on Potus. By the way what kind of person holding high public office creates a burner incognito twitter account? I would think that someone so virtuous such as Pierre Delecto with such high morals... would be all for transparency? Hmmm interesting
 
Question that should be asked of Romney is how much does did he pay HIS Bane board members and if he was president would he have question the Biden's compensation ?. Any one with common or business sense knows this Biden thing stinks and should have been looked at .....the press will not do their job
 
Even Trumps attorneys quit arguing he didn't do it. They switched to saying his actions were justified and not cause for removal... which should be a terrifying precedent for anybody that thinks Dems are corrupt whilst knowing that at some point they will occupy the White House under these new lack-of-rules.

The Government Accountability Office stated Trump's actions were unlawful; even if the funds were withheld to investigate corruption it would still be unlawful as it was not a "programmatic delay" which is the only delay allowed by law.

Marco Rubio stated, "Just because actions meet a standard of impeachment does not mean it is in the best interest of the country to remove a President from office." He didn't deny Trump did it, just said he shouldn't be removed.

Six different Republican Senators said Trumps actions were "shameful" "wrong" "inappropriate" or "appalling abuse" of his office.

The argument that Romney is a "Rhino" is as empty and ignorant as somebody who tosses the allegation not knowing it is spelled RINO (Republican In Name Only).

The idea that a codified crime must have been committed (which Trump did, its called the Impoundment Control Act) is completely baseless as Article I, Section II was written into the Constitution prior to the criminal code even being written... not to mention the evidence found in the Federalist Papers that the term high crime and misdemeanor referred to violating the public trust.

I regret that Dems will now use this abuse of their office in the future, but I look forward to many of Trumps defenders being forced to say its okay since Trump did it first and they supported it then.
 
well no matter how you look at the phone call Trump made, the fact still remains the bidens are corrupt lol;
 
Makes you wonder if Romney was just covering for his chief adviser that was setting on the Bursima board with Hunter Biden. Might be more here then we can see at this point. I wonder how many other members of Congress are raking in money via their relatives like Biden did. They would not want Trump cleaning the swamp with that program and not be able to line their own pockets by selling their office to the highest bidder by using a relative or chief adviser as a proxy go between.
RELH
 
Biden is not POTUS. Trump is, and held to a much higher standard. Romney had the guts to vote. We all have choices, he made his.
 
Biden is not POTUS. Trump is, and held to a much higher standard. Romney had the guts to vote. We all have choices, he made his.
If Biden is guilty then throw him out of the election or arrest him or whatever. I really don't care their party, if they're guilty... get them out.

But that has absolutely no impact on the guilt of Trump!
 
If Biden is guilty then throw him out of the election or arrest him or whatever. I really don't care their party, if they're guilty... get them out.

But that has absolutely no impact on the guilt of Trump!


So what exactly was Trump guilty of?
 
Even Trumps attorneys quit arguing he didn't do it. They switched to saying his actions were justified and not cause for removal... which should be a terrifying precedent for anybody that thinks Dems are corrupt whilst knowing that at some point they will occupy the White House under these new lack-of-rules.

The Government Accountability Office stated Trump's actions were unlawful; even if the funds were withheld to investigate corruption it would still be unlawful as it was not a "programmatic delay" which is the only delay allowed by law.

Marco Rubio stated, "Just because actions meet a standard of impeachment does not mean it is in the best interest of the country to remove a President from office." He didn't deny Trump did it, just said he shouldn't be removed.

Six different Republican Senators said Trumps actions were "shameful" "wrong" "inappropriate" or "appalling abuse" of his office.

The argument that Romney is a "Rhino" is as empty and ignorant as somebody who tosses the allegation not knowing it is spelled RINO (Republican In Name Only).

The idea that a codified crime must have been committed (which Trump did, its called the Impoundment Control Act) is completely baseless as Article I, Section II was written into the Constitution prior to the criminal code even being written... not to mention the evidence found in the Federalist Papers that the term high crime and misdemeanor referred to violating the public trust.

I regret that Dems will now use this abuse of their office in the future, but I look forward to many of Trumps defenders being forced to say its okay since Trump did it first and they supported it then.

But his actions were justified! He was rooting out corruption. Are you a fan of corruption? Don't answer that, we know what else you were a fan off.
 
hmm i thought most of the liberal jack ass's were gone i guess not lol...
Nice retort. Well thought-out, educated, focused on the discussion, and on-point. Very beneficial input you've given there.

Especially since I prefaced it by saying to lock up the Bidens.
 
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But his actions were justified! He was rooting out corruption. Are you a fan of corruption? Don't answer that, we know what else you were a fan off.
False argument you've made there. Trump said it was for corruption too. Even if you take that on face value, and believe it, it's still a violation.

Trump said he "withheld the funds to ensure that they were not spent 'in a manner that could conflict with the President's foreign policy,'"

The GAO response...

"Faithful execution of the law does not permit the President to substitute his own policy priorities for those that Congress has enacted into law," the GAO wrote. "OMB withheld funds for a policy reason, which is not permitted under the Impoundment Control Act. The withholding was not a programmatic delay. Therefore, we conclude that OMB violated the ICA."
 
Lol! Were the funds delayed?
Yes, by Trump's own admission. He stated he, "withheld the funds to ensure that they were not spent 'in a manner that could conflict with the President's foreign policy,'"
 
False argument you've made there. Trump said it was for corruption too. Even if you take that on face value, and believe it, it's still a violation.

Trump said he "withheld the funds to ensure that they were not spent 'in a manner that could conflict with the President's foreign policy,'"

The GAO response...

"Faithful execution of the law does not permit the President to substitute his own policy priorities for those that Congress has enacted into law," the GAO wrote. "OMB withheld funds for a policy reason, which is not permitted under the Impoundment Control Act. The withholding was not a programmatic delay. Therefore, we conclude that OMB violated the ICA."


Were the funds delayed?
 
Were the funds delayed?
Again, since you keep posting the same thing...

Yes, by Trump's own admission.

He stated he, "withheld the funds to ensure that they were not spent 'in a manner that could conflict with the President's foreign policy,'"

Not to mention in 39 you acknowledged he did, you just claimed it was justified.
 
Delayed, or normal protocol? I'll wait for you to trash the source as it wasn't your beloved MSNBC.

 
Delayed, or normal protocol? I'll wait for you to trash the source as it wasn't your beloved MSNBC.

Haha. You picked an article that was written in December, a month prior to the GAO report.

Here's one from the same source written a week before the report...



And here's one by the same source after the report was released...


Wise up!
 
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Your all missing the point. POTUS has been acquitted.

Romney had the guts to make the vote. In the future when this is in the past, this will be remembered. He opened the door to a Republican turning blue states red. California has not voted red since 1988. He will be the face of the Republican Party after the next cycle.
 
Your all missing the point. POTUS has been acquitted.

Romney had the guts to make the vote. In the future when this is in the past, this will be remembered. He opened the door to a Republican turning blue states red. California has not voted red since 1988. He will be the face of the Republican Party after the next cycle.
I hope you're right, Delta. Based on the Trump supporters I see on this site... I'm afraid the GOP is lost for years to come. It will take a total revamping to salvage the damage done by Trump
 
Haha. You picked an article that was written in December, a month prior to the GAO report.

Here's one from the same source written a week before the report...



And here's one by the same source after the report was released...


Wise up!

Reading those two links was like watching a Borg McEnroe match in the 80's. You never did tell me which branch you were in?
 
Mitt channeling his inner McCain. The whole argument is ridiculous except now Romney gets to try to was the stink off.

If Kim Jong Un lived in America he would be a democrat.
 
I Didn't Think Originally He Was This Way!

He's Damn Sure Showed His True Colors Here Lately!

Ship His Ass Back to where He Came From!
 
Grizz, just so im clear on your argument, when violating the impound act, are there degree's of violation? It appears that the funds were recieved by Ukrain, and for most of the delay,Ukrain was unaware of the delay. SO, IF, there was a violation does it meet the CONSTITUTION's requirement of a (defined law) high crimes or mistameaner. I have ask this to several people, and it either cant be answered., or is just ignored, to preserve an adgenda.
 
Grizz the gov't accountability office found Obama guilty as well so that argument falls on it's own weight just like the dems FAKE investigation.
Obama knowingly sold guns to drug cartels that killed hundreds of innocent civilians with them. So push yourself away from the table and open your peepers and admit that which you can't a jury of his peers ACQUITTED him and if you need to look up the definition of that to comprehend what it means feel free to do so. That means he was found INNOCENT and the head of the supreme court announced the verdict ON ALL COUNTS so ALL of America would know. Their president was innocent and all your crying and whining and kicking and screaming isn't going to change that fact.

Here let me give it to you one more time the President was ACQUITTED of ALL charges ...........You've pulverized the dead horse and stomped your point into dust and no matter how hard you try the guys trying the man that heard all the evidence ACQUITTED HIM. YOU LOST YOUR CASE JUST LIKE ADAM SCHIFF DID IT'S TIME FOR YOU TWO TO TRUMP UP SOME NEW CHARGES TO INVESTIGATE HIM ON SO HE CAN BEAT YOU AGAIN>>>>>LOL

At what point do you recognize that what you keep trying to prove is the textbook definition of INSANITY!!!

At what point do you open your eyes and actually admit which party is trying to tear this country apart........the GOP isn't the party of divisional politics, socialism, racial attacks, and limiting your freedom and fake investigations. Trump didn't do any of those things but there's one party in America that did........Why is he always cleared in the investigations? ....your hatred has blinded you. They're attacking the man but your not wise enough to see it's your rights and way of life they're really after.
 
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I hope you're right, Delta. Based on the Trump supporters I see on this site... I'm afraid the GOP is lost for years to come. It will take a total revamping to salvage the damage done by Trump

Better to support HRC, or just sit in a corner, suck your thumb and whimper because the "ideal" candidate wasn't on the ballot?

Just so you know, the vote for Johnson or not voting at all was sitting in the corner...
 
So now I'm going to inject anther factor into this that proves why Trump was acquitted and it was simply a political stunt and why he was found not guilty.

During the Clinton impeachment the law was followed and he was given due process throughout the whole process.

In Trumps sham impeachment rules were changed and he wasn't given due process in the whole boondoggle, until it reached the senate. It was done that way by design not the so called rush to impeach argument. Why? Because the dems knew he wasn't guilty of anything but they were going to use the sham impeachment angle to damage him in the public's view. If you watched the proceeding Trumps legal team kept referring to the fact he wasn't given due process for good reason.... HE WASN'T. Now think about this why? The house impeachment managers were all lawyers and they knew he didn't get due process which is one of the fundamentals of our legal system. Yet they could accuse him and do what they wanted because they changed the rules and didn't even have a WITNESS that heard factual evidence where TRUMP had committed a crime. ALL their own witnesses even AMBASSADORS who know we ask for favors tied to aid, testified that TRUMP hadn't committed a crime.

So if we have no crime and then they're reaching to build other charges to impeach him on, where's the basis for their initial investigation. where's the predicate to allow them to investigate him? Bear in mind politics is rarely about the truth but more often about the illusion and this whole process was just an illusion of the actual truth.

Impeachment is a political process and (that's why they actually could do it,) they claimed but yet they changed the rules to not allow him due process which denied him his right's. See they knew he never was going to get removed from office when they knowingly violated his right to due process. If they had managed to get a vote to remove him what had they set themselves up for?

They managed to pull all this crap as a political exercise knowing they couldn't do it because they violated his rights. If they had voted to remove him by violating his right to due process they may have originated, tried and convicted a sitting President for the first time in American history on a false predicate. Now given how easily Trumps legal team tore Schiffs sham impeachment apart and publicly had shown he didn't receive due process we may have witnessed the first impeachment in American history where Trump may have had legal recourse to go to a higher authority for remedy.......and what happens when due process and laws aren't followed in the courts...........HMMMMM

Just a little food for thought and why it was a political stunt of the highest accord. Trump called it a sham for good reason and so did the members of the GOP.........and what's the definition of sham......False or bogus and falsely present something false as truth........HMMmm

Brought to the American people by the same party that actually planted evidence to launch an investigation into the other political party using federal agencies and employees to launch a multimillon dollar sham investigation which actually broke federal laws and caused termination of many high ranking federal employees for cause, into a newly elected president that he was cleared on too. Isn't politics a wonderful business! Just like tearing up the speech it was political theatre all done with another intent to insite the masses.......and keep the divison moving forward.
 
Nice retort. Well thought-out, educated, focused on the discussion, and on-point. Very beneficial input you've given there.

Especially since I prefaced it by saying to lock up the Bidens.

you know why i said that, let me preface it for you' i don't like people acting smarter then others because some one misspelled a word like RHino oh excuse me RINO, this ain't high school thats all not to mention it reminds me of the last liberal who is AWOL Ne'... he was a horse asss...by the way did i get the last abbreviation right
 
Have to commend Mitt for speaking the truth and for what he believed instead of following all the other Repub Minions in the senate. He has BALL$ that's for sure.
 
Even Trumps attorneys quit arguing he didn't do it. They switched to saying his actions were justified and not cause for removal... which should be a terrifying precedent for anybody that thinks Dems are corrupt whilst knowing that at some point they will occupy the White House under these new lack-of-rules.

The Government Accountability Office stated Trump's actions were unlawful; even if the funds were withheld to investigate corruption it would still be unlawful as it was not a "programmatic delay" which is the only delay allowed by law.

Marco Rubio stated, "Just because actions meet a standard of impeachment does not mean it is in the best interest of the country to remove a President from office." He didn't deny Trump did it, just said he shouldn't be removed.

Six different Republican Senators said Trumps actions were "shameful" "wrong" "inappropriate" or "appalling abuse" of his office.

The argument that Romney is a "Rhino" is as empty and ignorant as somebody who tosses the allegation not knowing it is spelled RINO (Republican In Name Only).

The idea that a codified crime must have been committed (which Trump did, its called the Impoundment Control Act) is completely baseless as Article I, Section II was written into the Constitution prior to the criminal code even being written... not to mention the evidence found in the Federalist Papers that the term high crime and misdemeanor referred to violating the public trust.

I regret that Dems will now use this abuse of their office in the future, but I look forward to many of Trumps defenders being forced to say its okay since Trump did it first and they supported it then.


So when Obama ran guns into Mexico he deserved impeachment? Bush invaded Iraq, impeach?

Let's be honest. If violating the public trust =impeachment, we'd be about 537 government officials short.

Further.

Mitt Romney was elected to represent his constituents. Not one time have I heard him mention US in his weak excuses. God didn't elect him. His "conscience didn't either. Utah voters did.

Let's not forget his backdoor move to even get elected. Guess his conscience and morals only apply to others.

He's a small, petty man.
 
Ole Mitt is a political animal, I think we could all agree. Here is something that has crossed my mind with the whole Mitt thing:

I think y'all know where I'm headed with this. Didn’t Joe Biden mention that he would be open to a Republican running mate a month or so ago? There is a lot of Never Trump Reps out there that are applauding Mitts bravery in all this. What if Romneys show of courage is part of his power play? That thought doesn't seem to unrealistic in light of the insanity we have seen displayed over the last 3 years.

Food for thought...lol.
 
Obama and Fast & Furious - maybe? It depends if it was just bad policy or something more sinister and self-serving. If it was a larger conspiracy to violate federal law in an attempt to gain a case to impose gun control, then definitely. Trey Gowdy was unable to show that, however.

Bush and Iraq - probably not. I think virtually everybody would agree in hindsight that was bad policy. At the time, even Hillary and Kerry both voted in favor of the invasion. It turns out Saddam's deliberate misrepresentation of his WMDs was too effective. But, being that Congress passed the Iraq Resolution in 2002, I don't see it's impeachable. It was lawful bad foreign policy.

If a President is allowed to violate Congressional appropriation of funds, which is their sole Constitutional prerogative, for that Presidents personal political gain... then just imagine where that will go.

If the current Republican argument is taken to a further conclusion, then Rudy might as well start a firm on K Street in DC selling access to Trump and the alteration of other Foreign and Domestic Aid packages. Trump's attorneys, and the legislators that bought into it, have just said that would be acceptable and investigating it would be a violation of Executive Privilege. Maybe the next President will just give military aid in exchange for damaging information on a rival. What's the difference. Imagine where the next guy will take it from here.

Also, we're a Democratic Republic. Romney is not there to read the polls and chase the whims of the public. He's there to make decisions as he sees fit. The Senate gets the sole power to remove Presidents, not some convoluted electoral system where Senators are just required to vote to the popular vote of their respective states. It's the same reason that we didn't hear from John Bolton though over 75% of Americans wanted his testimony. We don't get the vote, the Senators do. If we don't like it we can vote them out when their term is over. (And no, a recall would not be acceptable under the US Constitution, regardless of what a State legislature says.)
 
Ole Mitt is a political animal, I think we could all agree. Here is something that has crossed my mind with the whole Mitt thing:

I think y'all know where I'm headed with this. Didn’t Joe Biden mention that he would be open to a Republican running mate a month or so ago? There is a lot of Never Trump Reps out there that are applauding Mitts bravery in all this. What if Romneys show of courage is part of his power play? That thought doesn't seem to unrealistic in light of the insanity we have seen displayed over the last 3 years.

Food for thought...lol.
Kind of a funny thought, but the Dems won't run two old white men together on a ticket. Too homogenous.
 
uh....Obama wouldn't let Holder testify....and Holder WAS held in contempt of congress....

I'm sure you were mad about that...
 
Obama and Fast & Furious - maybe? It depends if it was just bad policy or something more sinister and self-serving. If it was a larger conspiracy to violate federal law in an attempt to gain a case to impose gun control, then definitely. Trey Gowdy was unable to show that, however.

Bush and Iraq - probably not. I think virtually everybody would agree in hindsight that was bad policy. At the time, even Hillary and Kerry both voted in favor of the invasion. It turns out Saddam's deliberate misrepresentation of his WMDs was too effective. But, being that Congress passed the Iraq Resolution in 2002, I don't see it's impeachable. It was lawful bad foreign policy.

If a President is allowed to violate Congressional appropriation of funds, which is their sole Constitutional prerogative, for that Presidents personal political gain... then just imagine where that will go.

If the current Republican argument is taken to a further conclusion, then Rudy might as well start a firm on K Street in DC selling access to Trump and the alteration of other Foreign and Domestic Aid packages. Trump's attorneys, and the legislators that bought into it, have just said that would be acceptable and investigating it would be a violation of Executive Privilege. Maybe the next President will just give military aid in exchange for damaging information on a rival. What's the difference. Imagine where the next guy will take it from here.

Also, we're a Democratic Republic. Romney is not there to read the polls and chase the whims of the public. He's there to make decisions as he sees fit. The Senate gets the sole power to remove Presidents, not some convoluted electoral system where Senators are just required to vote to the popular vote of their respective states. It's the same reason that we didn't hear from John Bolton though over 75% of Americans wanted his testimony. We don't get the vote, the Senators do. If we don't like it we can vote them out when their term is over. (And no, a recall would not be acceptable under the US Constitution, regardless of what a State legislature says.)


What branch were you in?
 
Obama and Fast & Furious - maybe? It depends if it was just bad policy or something more sinister and self-serving. If it was a larger conspiracy to violate federal law in an attempt to gain a case to impose gun control, then definitely. Trey Gowdy was unable to show that, however.

Bush and Iraq - probably not. I think virtually everybody would agree in hindsight that was bad policy. At the time, even Hillary and Kerry both voted in favor of the invasion. It turns out Saddam's deliberate misrepresentation of his WMDs was too effective. But, being that Congress passed the Iraq Resolution in 2002, I don't see it's impeachable. It was lawful bad foreign policy.

If a President is allowed to violate Congressional appropriation of funds, which is their sole Constitutional prerogative, for that Presidents personal political gain... then just imagine where that will go.

If the current Republican argument is taken to a further conclusion, then Rudy might as well start a firm on K Street in DC selling access to Trump and the alteration of other Foreign and Domestic Aid packages. Trump's attorneys, and the legislators that bought into it, have just said that would be acceptable and investigating it would be a violation of Executive Privilege. Maybe the next President will just give military aid in exchange for damaging information on a rival. What's the difference. Imagine where the next guy will take it from here.

Also, we're a Democratic Republic. Romney is not there to read the polls and chase the whims of the public. He's there to make decisions as he sees fit. The Senate gets the sole power to remove Presidents, not some convoluted electoral system where Senators are just required to vote to the popular vote of their respective states. It's the same reason that we didn't hear from John Bolton though over 75% of Americans wanted his testimony. We don't get the vote, the Senators do. If we don't like it we can vote them out when their term is over. (And no, a recall would not be acceptable under the US Constitution, regardless of what a State legislature says.)


My friend. I know you're too smart for the talking points.

None of this has anything to do with Trump vs Biden.

It has to do with massive amounts of money, $1.8 billion that was slid into Ukraine to prop up Privat Bank. Biden and Kerry did that. That $$$ is gone.

The owner of Privat Bank and Burisma, is the same Oligarch. Hunter Biden, was simply insurance to keep Joe Biden in line.

As for Obama, Bush.

You said "violate public trust". It violates the public trust to run guns into Mexico. Have those guns kill our border Patrol officers, then have Eric Holder protected under Executive Priveldge.

That was the standard you put forth, "public trust".

So by you're standard, all Trump had to do was declare "Executive Privledge"?

Get real.

Ukraine is a corrupt cesspool into which NGO, US State Department, and a pile of bad actors are dumping billions in taxpayer money into, enriching themselves.

There is a reason the same handful of names keep popping up in "Rusdian Collusion", "Ukraine", "Hunter Biden".

The reason is about $9billion from the US and IMF that got pumped into Ukraine since its "revolution" started and today.

FOLLOW THE MONEY.

Trump is just dumb enough to talk out loud. That's why he's a threat. Not some Patriotic BS, he simply talks to much.
 
Grizz.

You and I are great at pointing out the Wilks, Kochs, Lee, Bishop. It's easy to sit back and look.

The MONEY flows from the energy sector to the Republicans.

However, you apparently have a blind spot. Where does Clinton's get $100million? Where does Michelle Obama get $67million advance on a book?

FOLLOW THE MONEY.

Don't forget Evan McMillan was financed by Mitt. Don't forget Obama care came from Mitt. Mitt was pro life. How the hell are you a staunch Mormon and pro life? He was for gun control.

Mitt ran as a republican for Senate in Mass. because he couldn't run as a Dem against Ted Kennedy. He didn't, nor doesn't have some moral conviction. He was born, raised, molded to be President. He couldn't run as a dem in Utah.

He is NOT a moral crusader.

And you are wrong. Mitt Romney RAN TO REPRESENT UTAH. You trying to claim Mitt followed some moral calling, means on the flip side that Lee, who is of the same religion, sold out?

When Sanders and Warren voted for removal was it a higher calling? Or a chance to knock off the competition?

You can't create, run, and profit off of vulture capitalism like Romney, then try to claim you answer only to God. Get real.

And NO ONE. believes if Romney was up for election this year he would have voted to remove. Not even you
 
Hoss, that was a shotgun blast and I don't have time to pick up all the BBs.

The "violate public trust" line didn't come from me, it came from Alexander Hamilton.

I never justified anything via Executive Privilege, that was the Trump guys.

I never defended Michelle Obama, Clinton, nor Ukraine. But their corruption doesn't absolve Trump's.

Whether Romney would've voted differently in an election year, I don't know. But I hope not. One, because that would be a diminishment to his character, and two, because that means he was concerned the Utah voters actually support Trump. Both terrifying thoughts.
 
What branch were you in?
I never draft dodged, unlike your guy. How many people do you employ? How much did you pay in taxes last year? What good are you for our country? The answers are not many, not much, and very little.
 
You trying to claim Mitt followed some moral calling, means on the flip side that Lee, who is of the same religion, sold out?

What a ridiculous thought! There are 535 Senators and Representatives in Congress, do you really believe all their viewpoints really fit so neatly in two boxes? Yet, their votes do. To demand perfect fealty of politicians is one of the great ires of our society.

It is perfectly reasonable to think two people of the same religion or political party can reach very different conclusions on a specific point. Do you agree 100% with anybody? Nope. And neither does anybody else. Nobody has the right to question the deeply-held beliefs of either Lee or Romney. Not you and not me.
 
I think he’s guilty of trying to get a little help from Ukraine.

I think he’s guilty as hell of looking out for the American people and you cry baby dems just can’t wrap yer pointy little heads around that fact! But we all know that you dems are much higher class citizens than us deplorable! Biden and his family stink like shet as do the leading dems of the impeachment hearings they should all be in a jail cell
 
I never draft dodged, unlike your guy. How many people do you employ? How much did you pay in taxes last year? What good are you for our country? The answers are not many, not much, and very little.
So many politicians received deferments for the draft. That's not dodging.
 
What a ridiculous thought! There are 535 Senators and Representatives in Congress, do you really believe all their viewpoints really fit so neatly in two boxes? Yet, their votes do. To demand perfect fealty of politicians is one of the great ires of our society.

It is perfectly reasonable to think two people of the same religion or political party can reach very different conclusions on a specific point. Do you agree 100% with anybody? Nope. And neither does anybody else. Nobody has the right to question the deeply-held beliefs of either Lee or Romney. Not you and not me.


WRONG. In asking for my vote, Mitt Romney asked me to evaluate his beliefs.

The issue with Mitt is no one knows what those are. A pro abortion Mormon?

And ask Bess how many times I pounded him for supporting the man, knowing full well Mitt Romney was 100% about Mitt Romney.

I didn't invoke his faith, HE DID. The same faith that calls him to be so moral and ethical, must be blind to buying up companies, laying off workers, destroying communities, in the name of profit? Or sucking an unborn fetus' brain out of it in the womb.

Where was Mitts moral conviction when he asked for Trumps endorsement? How about when he wanted to be Trumps Secretary of State?

I dislike Lee. He's a grandstander. But everyone knows where he stands.

What changed in trumps character, ethics, morals, in the time Romney sought endorsements and Sec of State job, to Wed?

Nothing.

Romney's #1 financial backer is Sheldon Adelsen. A CASINO MAGNANT. I though gambling was contrary to mormon beliefs? Apparently Romney's God looks the other way on morals and ethics as long as Romney benefits?


Isnt There some scripture about a rich man, tge kingdom of God, and the eye of a needle?

How mych is Romney worth?
 
I've lived in Utah my whole life. EVERY TIME someone introduces themself as "brother....", or works their position in the church into a conversation, I grab my wallet, and lock the door. There is a reason Utah is the scam capital of the US. Mitt is just using the same scam, on a bigger playing field.

This will play out. At some point the dirt comes out. My guess is Trump used his power to shut the door on one of Mitts business dealings. Or Trump had some pretty choice words for Mitt after Mitt asked for his money and support then chocked away an election.

But only a blind fool believes that Mitt Romney acts only out of morality. Go ask his cousins in Mexico about his morality and ethics. Ask all those folks Bain Capital destroyed.

Mitt Romney was born, raised, and groomed to be the President. He wasn't born a conservative, or a Republican. He was born an opportunist. He's the same animal as Trump, as Bloomberg, as the Wilks, or Soros. He just thinks if he talks softly and says God a few times, folks won't notice.
 


Just some light reading for grizz.
 
I guess I agree with Herbert...

“I would not have voted that way [with Romney], based on my information, what I know, but far be it for me to tell somebody else what they should vote with their information. It’s hard to find fault with anybody who says, ‘This is my moral code, this is what I believe to be true,’ and vote according to his conscience,” Herbert said. “You know, I don’t know how you criticize that."
 
I'd be a flaming pile of crap if you knew I'd tried to get into the leadership of $fw then after they said no, criticized them like I do.

It's an interesting phenominom. Someone should do a doctoral thesis on what happens to ones personality, and mentality when they lose a presidential election.

Al Gore is nearly certifiable.
Hillary is, well, Hillary.
Mitt has become very petty.

Further. What did Utah get out of it? You know, the people he swore to represent(the pills show he didn't). Did we get any pork barrel projects? Did he negotiate any positives with either the Dems or Repubs?

Or, did he act like a 14yr old girl after getting dumped?

If he was Trumps Sec of State, would we read weekly Romney hits on Trump?

Character is the measure of how we act when NO ONE IS LOOKING.
 
I would sure like to hear those guys that didn't talk as witness or had information that could put it to rest sit it the chair tell what they knew. JUST seem they was hiding something which really didn't get a chance to come out into the light of day.
DON'T seem like all the truth came out without those witnesses.
How high is % now of the common people( that is Us) that wanted the witnesses to take the stand and tell what they knew. Wasn't it over 60 % that wanted to hear what they have to tell.
 
Gator, they were so bad trying this case that in all fairness it was over before it started and they couldn't prove a damn bit of it. They even had to make up the charges since there weren't any statutes for them. The would of, could of, needed more witness crap is just a straw man so they can blame somebody else for the damn mess for their own lack of evidence, proof and witnesses in their own case. Look at what they're doing they're blaming everyone else for their own poor case. They can't believe they lost.........when you don't have a case when you go to court it's not the other guys fault you lost........It's yours.
 
I'd be a flaming pile of crap if you knew I'd tried to get into the leadership of $fw then after they said no, criticized them like I do.

If everybody on the SFW Board is required to vote exactly the same all the time, with no ability to have a difference of opinion... that may explain why they are the way they are.

How high is % now of the common people( that is Us) that wanted the witnesses to take the stand and tell what they knew. Wasn't it over 60 % that wanted to hear what they have to tell.

Quinnipiac has it at 75%
 
I would sure like to hear those guys that didn't talk as witness or had information that could put it to rest sit it the chair tell what they knew. JUST seem they was hiding something which really didn't get a chance to come out into the light of day.
DON'T seem like all the truth came out without those witnesses.
How high is % now of the common people( that is Us) that wanted the witnesses to take the stand and tell what they knew. Wasn't it over 60 % that wanted to hear what they have to tell.
Trump DID NOT want anyone talking!
Not sure why he’d rather go down in history as one of the few impeached presidents in order to keep people from talking about his total innocence.

Oh well, he says that because of him I’m getting rich in the market. I guess I’ll take it while calling him President.
It’ll be interesting what comes out in time. Bolton’s book should be good.
It’s quite the reality show and we might very well have 4 more years of this show.
 
no wonder you work from home........finding your way to work every morning would be a challenge...
 
Any body that believes flip flop Bolton is a person who has no common sense to see what is in front of their face. Must be a severe case of TDS to cause that much lack of common sense.

RELH
 
Facts are stubborn things.

The dems called Bolton to testify. The WH let it be known they'd claim executive prividge, and it would go to court.

So they dropped him.

It sounds really juicy having Bolton, until as a dem you realize he has been around a long time, and the repubs get to cross examine.

Under oath, he might open up on the clandestine war Obama was fighting in Ukraine. Or how Hunter Biden and Devin Archer were laundering money pumped into Ukraine by Joe Biden and John Kerry to bolster Privat Bank, $1.8 billion, that seemingly disappeared through laundering schemes.

Bolton is still a Republican. And a neo con. You can't really think under oath, he wouldn't lay waste to democrats? You think he isn't going to be asked about billions in taxpayer money, and $7 billion from the IMF going into Ukraine and disappearing? You think a guy like him, been around as long as he has, knows where the bodies are buried and isn't going to be asked, and answer? The dems ain't NEVER going to hire this guy. They've drug his name through the dirt. You truly think he isn't going to get a little payback? And you don't think Shiff knows it?

Get real.

Sounds better to let the Media play the "Bolton" sound bite.

Plus. Witnesses meant WITNESSES. I saw Hunter Biden on TV. Lots of very rich, very powerful people going to get exposed by that crack head.

The "whistleblower" on the stand explaining how Shiff set the whole thing up would be fun.

Or Michael Atkinson(the 18th witness), the witness from the house side that Shiff hid testimony of. The IG who changed whistleblower regs to include 2nd person claims. Want to bet who he throws under the bus?

It all would make great soap opera viewing. But in the end it doesn't change any facts. And the facts are simply nothing happened. Their has to be a victim to be a crime. Talking about a crime isn't a crime. Wanting a crime isn't a crime.

And honestly. I find the entire deal with advisors to any president or governor or CEO, who take those jobs, then write tell all's, or yap on TV pretty damn dreadful. There are conversations that any leader, commander, business owner has, that don't need to leave the room. Bolton DID NOT quit on the spot over any conversation with Ukraine aid. Kind of means he agreed? Or he was corrupted? Or is corrupt? Or has no moral compass?
Or, he's just another in a long line of Jim Comey, Mitt Romney types who suddenly get real moral, right AFTER Trump dumps them, not during.

I'm not a lawyer, but I believe as one you are taught to never ask a question you don't know the answer to.

The dems never supeoned Bolton. What answer did they know that made them not want to ask the answer to?
 
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I never draft dodged, unlike your guy. How many people do you employ? How much did you pay in taxes last year? What good are you for our country? The answers are not many, not much, and very little.


So you question what I've done for my country having never signed that check? SMFH I now know all I need to know about you. Hopefully you saw the post I put up before admin took it down. I'd post it again but fondler would probably run me. Let us know what you fall for next, it'll entertain the rest of us.
 
Obama and Fast & Furious - maybe? It depends if it was just bad policy or something more sinister and self-serving. If it was a larger conspiracy to violate federal law in an attempt to gain a case to impose gun control, then definitely. Trey Gowdy was unable to show that, however.

Bush and Iraq - probably not. I think virtually everybody would agree in hindsight that was bad policy. At the time, even Hillary and Kerry both voted in favor of the invasion. It turns out Saddam's deliberate misrepresentation of his WMDs was too effective. But, being that Congress passed the Iraq Resolution in 2002, I don't see it's impeachable. It was lawful bad foreign policy.

If a President is allowed to violate Congressional appropriation of funds, which is their sole Constitutional prerogative, for that Presidents personal political gain... then just imagine where that will go.

If the current Republican argument is taken to a further conclusion, then Rudy might as well start a firm on K Street in DC selling access to Trump and the alteration of other Foreign and Domestic Aid packages. Trump's attorneys, and the legislators that bought into it, have just said that would be acceptable and investigating it would be a violation of Executive Privilege. Maybe the next President will just give military aid in exchange for damaging information on a rival. What's the difference. Imagine where the next guy will take it from here.

Also, we're a Democratic Republic. Romney is not there to read the polls and chase the whims of the public. He's there to make decisions as he sees fit. The Senate gets the sole power to remove Presidents, not some convoluted electoral system where Senators are just required to vote to the popular vote of their respective states. It's the same reason that we didn't hear from John Bolton though over 75% of Americans wanted his testimony. We don't get the vote, the Senators do. If we don't like it we can vote them out when their term is over. (And no, a recall would not be acceptable under the US Constitution, regardless of what a State legislature says.)


Continuing to show us how little you know. Well done!
 
Grizzly said:
Obama and Fast & Furious - maybe? It depends if it was just bad policy or something more sinister and self-serving. If it was a larger conspiracy to violate federal law in an attempt to gain a case to impose gun control, then definitely. Trey Gowdy was unable to show that, however.
_______________________________________________________________________

Well if my memory serves me right I remember reading that of the many-many thousands of firearms confiscated by the Mexican police, only about 2 thousand could be shown as coming from the United states.
I also remember that the appox. number of firearms allowed by ATF to be bought by straw buyers and shipped to Mexico under Fast and Furious was about 2 thousand. It looks like under the Obama administration ATF was allowed to supply Mexican cartels with the vast majority of firearms from the U.S. what did Obama do with this scandal. He allowed the supervisor agent that dreamed up this B.S. to be promoted to the Washington D.C. office which is a prized re-location by ATF agents. Even after one of our border patrol agent was killed and two of those firearms were found at the crime scene.

RELH
 
Quinnipiac has it at 75%
THAT IS HUGE AMOUNT OF AMERICANS
So that many wants to see and hear what they know, BUT it was road blocked from happening.
That old saying "where there is smoke there is fire" could be a true saying for this road block.
Some say it was made up so why not let the parties talk in front of the whole nation.
NOW it all about seeing who did do some telling on what they knew are getting a boot to the curb.
 
Well if my memory serves me right I remember reading that of the many-many thousands of firearms confiscated by the Mexican police, only about 2 thousand could be shown as coming from the United states.
I also remember that the appox. number of firearms allowed by ATF to be bought by straw buyers and shipped to Mexico under Fast and Furious was about 2 thousand. It looks like under the Obama administration ATF was allowed to supply Mexican cartels with the vast majority of firearms from the U.S. what did Obama do with this scandal. He allowed the supervisor agent that dreamed up this B.S. to be promoted to the Washington D.C. office which is a prized re-location by ATF agents. Even after one of our border patrol agent was killed and two of those firearms were found at the crime scene.

RELH

Yep, Fast & Furious was a bad sting. It was also bad in 2006 & 2007 under Bush (it too was run out of Phoenix ATF, but called Operation Wide Receiver). Republicans tried for years to get documents implicating Holder but Obama blocked them under Executive Privilege. Republicans sued to get documents (sound familiar?) but Obama left office before it was decided and both parties, House and Justice, dropped the case in 2019. I'm glad to hear you support Obama's claim of Executive Privilege and that this was just a 7-year "hoax" and "witch hunt" started by Little Darrell Issa.

I hope you're getting my sarcasm here, and no I'm not defending F&F (throw Holder in jail for all I care)... just pointing out inconsistencies in arguments by the Trump defenders who say what Obama did was wrong and the Republicans were right.
 
Yep, Fast & Furious was a bad sting. It was also bad in 2006 & 2007 under Bush (it too was run out of Phoenix ATF, but called Operation Wide Receiver). Republicans tried for years to get documents implicating Holder but Obama blocked them under Executive Privilege. Republicans sued to get documents (sound familiar?) but Obama left office before it was decided and both parties, House and Justice, dropped the case in 2019. I'm glad to hear you support Obama's claim of Executive Privilege and that this was just a 7-year "hoax" and "witch hunt" started by Little Darrell Issa.

I hope you're getting my sarcasm here, and no I'm not defending F&F (throw Holder in jail for all I care)... just pointing out inconsistencies in arguments by the Trump defenders who say what Obama did was wrong and the Republicans were right.


And "the kids in cages at the border" lefty?
 
And "the kids in cages at the border" lefty?

It must be tough to be so intellectually dominated that you're stuck trying to regain your self-respect by making random nonsensical replies to posts that have nothing to do with you.

Go pop another Schmitts and then sleep it off! You'll feel better in the morning.
 
Yep, Fast & Furious was a bad sting. It was also bad in 2006 & 2007 under Bush (it too was run out of Phoenix ATF, but called Operation Wide Receiver). Republicans tried for years to get documents implicating Holder but Obama blocked them under Executive Privilege. Republicans sued to get documents (sound familiar?) but Obama left office before it was decided and both parties, House and Justice, dropped the case in 2019. I'm glad to hear you support Obama's claim of Executive Privilege and that this was just a 7-year "hoax" and "witch hunt" started by Little Darrell Issa.

I hope you're getting my sarcasm here, and no I'm not defending F&F (throw Holder in jail for all I care)... just pointing out inconsistencies in arguments by the Trump defenders who say what Obama did was wrong and the Republicans were right.


Your ignorance truly bores the hell out of
It must be tough to be so intellectually dominated that you're stuck trying to regain your self-respect by making random nonsensical replies to posts that have nothing to do with you.

Go pop another Schmitts and then sleep it off! You'll feel better in the morning.


TFF Sleep well Sally, somebody's got your 6!
 
Yep, Fast & Furious was a bad sting. It was also bad in 2006 & 2007 under Bush (it too was run out of Phoenix ATF, but called Operation Wide Receiver). Republicans tried for years to get documents implicating Holder but Obama blocked them under Executive Privilege. Republicans sued to get documents (sound familiar?) but Obama left office before it was decided and both parties, House and Justice, dropped the case in 2019. I'm glad to hear you support Obama's claim of Executive Privilege and that this was just a 7-year "hoax" and "witch hunt" started by Little Darrell Issa.

I hope you're getting my sarcasm here, and no I'm not defending F&F (throw Holder in jail for all I care)... just pointing out inconsistencies in arguments by the Trump defenders who say what Obama did was wrong and the Republicans were right.


So the Republicans WENT TO COURT?

If Shiff wanted Bolton so bad, why didn't he?
 
So the Republicans WENT TO COURT?

If Shiff wanted Bolton so bad, why didn't he?

Well that and they actually tracked the guns. But lets not let facts get in the way of bipartisanship. Keep speakin grizz, it's entertaining!
 
Quinnipiac has it at 75%
THAT IS HUGE AMOUNT OF AMERICANS
So that many wants to see and hear what they know, BUT it was road blocked from happening.
That old saying "where there is smoke there is fire" could be a true saying for this road block.
Some say it was made up so why not let the parties talk in front of the whole nation.
NOW it all about seeing who did do some telling on what they knew are getting a boot to the curb.
I don't buy the populist argument that the public know best here. 50% of Americans are dumb as hell and have no idea what these swampsters are even fighting over. They will never understand that the real crime was sending a fortune of OUR money to de-stabilize the region (which has been pointed out they can't find on a map). I would have more respect for Trump if he had withheld the money altogether.

These 75% don't need witnesses, they need to quit voting for these crooks.
 
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Grizz Fast and Furious was a bad thing and I know guys in the agencies that said this is insane. If you look at the big picture it wasn't a good plan in any regard. Running guns to cartels who kill civilians with them shouldn't be an action any of us support or justify in either party. Using an example of another poor decision to support an even worse one........
 
Quinnipiac has it at 75%
THAT IS HUGE AMOUNT OF AMERICANS
So that many wants to see and hear what they know, BUT it was road blocked from happening.
That old saying "where there is smoke there is fire" could be a true saying for this road block.
Some say it was made up so why not let the parties talk in front of the whole nation.
NOW it all about seeing who did do some telling on what they knew are getting a boot to the curb.
I would bet it’s even higher than 75% who want to hear from witnesses, it’s just that many of the 25% who don’t are pretty confident that hearing from witnesses probably wouldn’t be good for Trump, so they just don’t want anyone to hear facts.
It’d suck to be one of the few impeached Presidents. Not a great club to be in.
Like OJ, Trump will someday write an “If I Did It” book telling all about it.
 

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