Media biased????

202typical

Long Time Member
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Naaaa the media's not biased.....................my azz!

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Putting Money Where Mouths Are: Media Donations Favor Dems 100-1

By WILLIAM TATE | Posted Wednesday, July 23, 2008 4:20 PM PT

The New York Times' refusal to publish John McCain's rebuttal to Barack Obama's Iraq op-ed may be the most glaring example of liberal media bias this journalist has ever seen. But true proof of widespread media bias requires one to follow an old journalism maxim: Follow the money.

Even the Associated Press ? no bastion of conservatism ? has considered, at least superficially, the media's favoritism for Barack Obama. It's time to revisit media bias.

True to form, journalists are defending their bias by saying that one candidate, Obama, is more newsworthy than the other. In other words, there is no media bias. It is we, the hoi polloi, who reveal our bias by questioning the neutrality of these learned professionals in their ivory-towered newsrooms.

Big Media applies this rationalization to every argument used to point out bias. "It's not a result of bias," they say. "It's a matter of news judgment."

And, like the man who knows his wallet was pickpocketed but can't prove it, the public is left to futilely rage against the injustice of it all.

The "newsworthy" argument can be applied to every metric ? one-sided imbalances in airtime, story placement, column inches, number of stories, etc. ? save one.

An analysis of federal records shows that the amount of money journalists contributed so far this election cycle favors Democrats by a 15:1 ratio over Republicans, with $225,563 going to Democrats, only $16,298 to Republicans .

Two-hundred thirty-five journalists donated to Democrats, just 20 gave to Republicans ? a margin greater than 10-to-1. An even greater disparity, 20-to-1, exists between the number of journalists who donated to Barack Obama and John McCain.

Searches for other newsroom categories (reporters, correspondents, news editors, anchors, newspaper editors and publishers) produces 311 donors to Democrats to 30 donors to Republicans, a ratio of just over 10-to-1. In terms of money, $279,266 went to Dems, $20,709 to Republicans, a 14-to-1 ratio.

And while the money totals pale in comparison to the $9-million-plus that just one union's PACs have spent to get Obama elected, they are more substantial than the amount that Obama has criticized John McCain for receiving from lobbyists: 96 lobbyists have contributed $95,850 to McCain, while Obama ? who says he won't take money from PACs or federal lobbyists ? has received $16,223 from 29 lobbyists.

A few journalists list their employer as an organization like MSNBC, MSNBC.com or ABC News, or report that they're freelancers for the New York Times, or are journalists for Al Jazeera, CNN Turkey, Deutsche Welle Radio or La Republica of Rome (all contributions to Obama). Most report no employer. They're mainly freelancers. That's because most major news organization have policies that forbid newsroom employees from making political donations.

As if to warn their colleagues in the media, MSNBC last summer ran a story on journalists' contributions to political candidates that drew a similar conclusion:

"Most of the newsroom checkbooks leaned to the left."

The timing of that article was rather curious. Dated June 25, 2007, it appeared during the middle of the summer news doldrums in a non-election year ? timing that was sure to minimize its impact among the general public, while still warning newsrooms across the country that such political donations can be checked.

In case that was too subtle, MSNBC ran a sidebar story detailing cautionary tales of reporters who lost their jobs or were otherwise negatively impacted because their donations became public.

As if to warn their comrades-in-news against putting their money where their mouth is, the report also cautioned that, with the Internet, "it became easier for the blogging public to look up the donors."

It went on to detail the ban that most major media organizations have against newsroom employees donating to political campaigns, a ban that raises some obvious First Amendment issues. Whether it's intentional or not, the ban makes it difficult to verify the political leanings of Big Media reporters, editors and producers. There are two logical ways to extrapolate what those leanings are, though.

One is the overwhelming nature of the above statistics. Given the pack mentality among journalists and, just like any pack, the tendency to follow the leader ? in this case, Big Media ? and since Big Media are centered in some of the bluest of blue parts of the country, it is highly likely that the media elite reflect the same, or an even greater, liberal bias.

A second is to analyze contributions from folks in the same corporate cultures. That analysis provides some surprising results. The contributions of individuals who reported being employed by major media organizations are listed in the nearby table.

The contributions add up to $315,533 to Democrats and $22,656 to Republicans ? most of that to Ron Paul, who was supported by many liberals as a stalking horse to John McCain, a la Rush Limbaugh's Operation Chaos with Hillary and Obama.

What is truly remarkable about the list is that, discounting contributions to Paul and Rudy Giuliani, who was a favorite son for many folks in the media, the totals look like this: $315,533 to Democrats, $3,150 to Republicans (four individuals who donated to McCain).

Let me repeat: $315,533 to Democrats, $3,150 to Republicans ? a ratio of 100-to-1. No bias there.





"dude, nothing we can say will make us like as childish/silly as the rants you post. We HAVE posted the parts, you chose to ignore them. We get it, you like soldiers that sell out their fellow soldiers for political gain, and you hate or hold in contempt those that take a stand. We get that you manage to see NOTHING but bad in Republicans, and nothing put pure and honorable intentions from fellow limp wristed libs. We got it already, now move on."
(PRO July 3, 2008)
 
makes sense that because the big media corps are based in urban areas that they would tend to be more liberal, plus more educated people tend to be more liberal, but again so what? most of the newspapers in my state tend to be conservative, guess I could cry about that not being fair, but thats the way it is, there are hundreds of papers that are biased towards the right wing, some big ones like the wall street journal, I guess your obsession with the NYT must be because the paper is so good?
 
"plus more educated people tend to be more liberal", Piper if that is factual, what happen in your case?

RELH
 
I was thinking of the 3 different cops that I have hunted with over the years, they were all nice guys, whats wrong with you? you know RELH you are inspiring, I think its time for me to join other Wyoming residents to see if we can limit nonresidents to no more than 10% of the resident big game quota.
 
Piper, your state loves our money too much to listen to you. Just as we turn a deaf ear to your liberal rantings, so will your own home state. Now I know why you rant and rave so much, you feel so isolated living in a state that has more conservatives then liberals like you.
P.S. I never was a nice cop, I belived in kicking butt and sent alot of A-holes to prison. Even ticked off the brass once and awhile when they made stupid decisions based on politics and not sound police precedure to protect our citizens. I sure as heck will not change for someone I think is a outright idiot and moron.
You would not want to hunt with me anyway. You would not be able to sleep at night due to staying awake and trying to figure out why I brough a container of kerosene to camp with me.

RELH
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-26-08 AT 01:23AM (MST)[p]Peter (and I mean that in the literal sense) Piper, I'll take common sense over knowlege any day. Obviously your short on both, especially if you think that Wyoming is going to reduce the NR tags. Where the hell do you think they get all of their revenue from? Your comment on liberals being more educated has to be one of the most idiotic comments I have seen on this site. Good luck in your liberal fight for the second ammendment. I hope you're the first one they take the guns from when you vote for Obama Bin Laden!!!!!

It's always an adventure!!!
www.awholelottabull.com
 
thats not true Wyoming has lots of money right now and there are rumblings about providing more opportunity for residents,mostly in south western Wy, change could happen hunter and group input to the commissioners can make a difference, RELH you could not keep up with me hunting or anything else except maybe shooting a pistol so don't get excited, I don't know what you would do with a can of kerosine except start a forest fire to provide gov. jobs or maybe you can explode something are you a wanna be Tim McVie? and politicaly I am pretty main stream in Wyoming, I would not blend in with the California extremists on either side, LOTTABULL Its commen knowlege that more educated Americans tend to be more liberal, look at most university campuses in the country, except BYU of course, and where did I say I was voting for Obama? and unless you guide only on private lands you should be equally concerned about republican efforts to sell large amounts of public lands as you are about gun ownership rights, I know I am
 
"Thats not true Wyoming has lots of money right now and there are rumblings about providing more opportunity for residents, mostly in south Western Wy."
Thats helps to prove what I said. Most of that money came from the non-resident tags and license purchases. I know what the price difference is between non residents and residents.
The rest of your statement is computer bravado concerning what you "THINK" you can do. Do not forget the rifle, I am no slouch with it also.
As for the kerosene, there is several good books out on my family history and what we are capable of using kerosene for that would answer your question concerning that.
The bottom line is that you are still what we perceive you as and I do not expect that to change in the near future.
Your intelligence and plain old common sense has shown to be very lacking in your numerous posts and your observation of liberals being more educated is the rantings of a moron that would be stupid enought to believe that crap. Go find a rock and crawl under before your fellow residents learn of your rantings and tar and feather you for insulting them.

RELH
 
Wyoming has lots of general fund surplus money and game and fish can now tap into some of that, It takes guts to admit that some of your problems are genetic, Ill give you that much, you should keep it down when you come to Wyoming, some don't take kindly to radicals from California
 
Piper;
I have hunted Wyoming about ten times during the past 15 years. I have never had a problem with any of the residents there. In fact most of them went out of their way to help me one way or another. You may be surprised how many times I was able to get free trespass on ranches to hunt, or had local residents be a free guide into wilderness areas to hunt.
I in return respected their rights and their property and was willing to give in return for their favors. You are the last person I need to counsel me on being a radical and wearing out my welcome. You my friend need to follow your own advice.
I will admit that I have not met a Wyoming resident with your bent views, and can not say how that meeting would have ended. You are a very small minority in that great state.

RELH
 
Come on up to where the gas companys are doing there thing and start spouting drill drill I don't care about anything else and see what happens, drilling is going to happen and its good in a lot of ways, its the I don't care about anything else part that gets to people , like I said my views are pretty much main stream Wyoming, you seem a bit extreme, what I find discusting is when I repeat the simple fact that the more educated people in this country tend to be more liberal in the way they vote, you go bananas and start calling names, I didn't say it was right or wrong its just a fact, look it up, the Wyoming governer is democrat are you going to go nuts over that fact? I think your profession and maybe where you live has tainted your view
 
Fox gave money to dems and zip to republicans? if that is true Murdock fired them.

Maybe the republicans should change their platform to where people including the media want to give them money? my suggestion is pass the hat and counter their contributions, or shut up because it's a free country and matching donations are not required.
 
Piper, you paint with a very broad brush. I guess all those top educated heads of companies, all of our top military commanders, all of the attorneys, doctors, and anyone else who finished their college education are all liberals according to your opinion. You are still full of it.
Yes! I will aggree with you about my profession having somewhat tainted my view. I find it hard to trust people since I have been lied too so often. I find it hard to donate my time dealing with idiots and morons and criminals since I had to deal with them and baby set then for 30 years.
I have the habit of calling a spade a spade and not saying one thing and believing something else. Also it was very obvious from your many posts that you hate drilling and the people connected with it and it has tainted your views. Get use to it, it is going to get bigger and it does not matter if you or I hate or love it. Your average american citizen is going to demand it for cheaper energy.
As for you being "mainstream view Wyoming", I say you are being very presumptuous based on your posts in the past and I am willing to bet that I am not the only one that shares that opinion of you. I think you are as biased as the press since we need to get back on the subject at hand.

RELH
 
RELH do you know what tend to lean means? it doesn't mean all or everyone, drilling is what it is, like most things it has good points and bad, Its happening but its our right as sportsmen or whatever to mitigate the downside of it and try to save some places like the wyoming range, that doesn't mean I hate it, getting back to the subject, with the wall street journal and so many other papers being biased on the right why do so many get upset at the NYT for being baised the other way? New York citizens tend to lean liberal anyway, note I didn't say all of them
 
Piper you said that most educated people tend to be liberal. I'm guessing that you did not even graduate from high school because I am a high school graduate with no college education, and own a very successful business and I am 100 times smarter than you are.







Piper, how's your period?
 
Zigga;
I would not consider his being elected a scandal, just poor judgement from voters. What may be the scandal is what he does or not do in his first four years.

RELH
 
Caforked horn writes

?Piper you said that most educated people tend to be liberal. I'm guessing that you did not even graduate from high school because I am a high school graduate with no college education, and own a very successful business and I am 100 times smarter than you are.?

Pipers response is

?got to admit forkedhorn you make a lot of sense?

Lil? Piper you can't be for real?you just admitted he was 100 times smarter than you?which I would put at like 2-300 times smarter?dang you are off the stupid scale. What amazes me you never seem to tire of making an idiot of yourself. But I will admit it is a liitle entertaining...you have given me more that a few chuckles...

"If you 20 and not a liberal you don't have a heart and if you 30 and not a conservative you don't have a brain"

The problem with ?education? is liberals think it comes in classroom and is certified with a diploma?hey look how smart I am and I got a piece of paper to prove it. Don?t get me wrong formal education can be very valuable. But the real education you get is in the real world dealing with real people and situations. Formal education can be compared it gearing up for a trip up Everest. The liberal then sits at base camp and writes a book on Mountain climbing?..you got to climb the friggin mountain to have any idea what it is all about. The liberals are sitting at base camp theorizing and the conservatives are climbing the mountain. I have been exposed to many people with enough advanced degrees to wallpaper a room and hands down the smartest guy I have ever met was on old Police Sergeant of mine who had a high school education but deeply understood the ways of the world through personal experience and common sense.
 
Adventure writer are you as stupid as forkedhorn? Im being sarcastic in my response to him, talk about people that have no real world experence, how many times have we heard the Churchill quote? I have climbed a few mountains thats why its hard for me to stomach the radical right, do you people really think for yourselfs ever? both of you show yourselfs to have very little real world experence, forkedhorn because he is busy running his own company and you have only what the government shows you, those things are fine, but there is a big world out there, there is such a thing as right and wrong, but things are not black and white, now go ahead and write a novel next post and call me names, whatever turn your crank
 
Lil Piper...Okay...hmmm....I am as stupid as Forkhorn who is from your own observation 100 times smarter than you.........but your obsetrvation is veiled in sarcasam.....you need to dumb it down so I can keep up.

Been to busy to dive in to these posts but enjoy a quick browse now and again and I have to admit it would be alot less interersting with out you here....you confirm almost daily many of my thoughts on liberals..and for that I thank you..so keep on truckin sister
 
Just what separates a liberal from a moderate anyway? I just can't picture what I would call a liberal hunting with a gun or being a hunter at all for that matter.

Part of you self righteous right wingers problem is you veiw anyone not as close minded and one sided as you are as the enemy. keep in mind the moderates will decide the election and the liberals will govern afterwards because they offer the more moderate attitude of the two parties anymore. you're shooting yourself in the foot but you're too dumb to stop it.

You'll come out of the election with your sense of superiority and self righteous pride in tact but no power in DC. I guess that's fair enough but I worry about the far left as much as I do you clowns, if there was a way to exclude the most radical 25% from both side from ever holding public office we would all be better off. the fact McCain got the nomination rather than one of the fruit bats shows some of you are coming around so there's hope, maybe the mid terms will restore some balance once you're a little more humble and a little more moderate.
 
Moderation is what is killing Europe Dupe. Moderation is the wussy way out. I will take a left wing nut bar and a right wing nut bar over a friggin spineless gutless moderate any day.
When it comes to politics I do not want my friends on the right reaching accross the isle and I do not want my friends on the left reaching across the isle. I want bitter brutal fighting. This middle of the road singing Kumbyah is the way we American's get screwed over every friggin time!







"dude, nothing we can say will make us like as childish/silly as the rants you post. We HAVE posted the parts, you chose to ignore them. We get it, you like soldiers that sell out their fellow soldiers for political gain, and you hate or hold in contempt those that take a stand. We get that you manage to see NOTHING but bad in Republicans, and nothing put pure and honorable intentions from fellow limp wristed libs. We got it already, now move on."
(PRO July 3, 2008)
 
Dude, the Republicans becoming moderate is what has lost them seats. When Republicans become conservatives again they will regain seats. McCain does better when he sounds like a conservative, not a middle of the road SPINE LESS wussy moderate. A moderate is just the PC label for someone w/o CONVICTIONS. Ironically, Obama is an EXTREME socialist trying to pass as a moderate, neither is good for America. Was Franklin/Jefferson/Washington and the other Founders of this great nation 'moderates' or were they extremists? Why do you think it took several years to write the Constitution? It was because NONE OF THEM were 'moderates', ALL OF THEM had strong convictions/beliefs. It is a 'modern' concept that being 'moderate' is desirable. It goes hand in hand with the wimped down view on sports today, we can't have 'winners' or there will be 'losers', and that means someones 'feelings' will get hurt and we can't have that. You SP's don't want to hear that Socialism does NOT work and takes away Freedom from individuals, but that does NOT change the truth, which is that Socialism has NEVER worked and NEVER will, despite what 'moderates' believe. If you stay in the middle of the road long enough you will get your butt ran over, so go ahead and STAY THERE! I will stand strong with my convictions while you waffle and look at polls to see where you stand today on issues.

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
Dupe, you confuse close-mindedness with coming to intelligent conclusions and realizing time tested conservative principals that have been proven over and over and over in countless life and governmental scenarios. It simply is the smart choice. Once coming to that point sticking by those proven principals and pressing forward.

Dupe, it is the principals that I believe in. But I am truly worried the direction the country is headed in and we seemed to be methodically attacking all the good things and those principals that made our country what it is?. or the way it was. And just for the record I don't happen to think your stupid, just misguided. You obviously care or you wouldn't spend so much time here. You just seem to bounce all over the place running with this issue or that. I stick by my principals and things stay clear for me.
 
Nothing is as clear as you'd like to make it sound, GWB is a perfect example of that, he has his principles and never in the history of politics has there been a less flexible or less compromising or less popular president. you see that as a vertue but look where it has left him and his party, in the crapper. so you stood your ground but had the rug pulled out from under you, now you're on your butts with a puzzled pheasant expression on your face about to beat beaten and lead by a loser like Obama.

Now I consider compromise preferable to defeat, in this election all is not lost you can live to fight another day and by changing your platform you can draw the power back to your side. in world affairs and the growing threat China and Russia pose not only economically but militarily that tough guy my way or the hiway attitude might get you knocked down and you won't get up again. if it was just you that's fine but I'm on this boat as well so not so fast.

Ramble all you want moderates and swing voters decide most elections and this one will be no exception, life is about compromise and you are getting a lesson in how politics are as well. it takes a stronger and smarter man to work out a solution to a stuation that will work than it does to be some jackass who digs his heels until he starves or gets shot.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-28-08 AT 06:27PM (MST)[p]There you go again "less popular president". Are you absolutely sure of your facts? Just because you despise him doesn't make him the least popular or have the lowest approval ratings. Have you ever seen Trumans or Nixons lowest ratings? Or do you just like the polls that suite you?
 
Dupe, my principal?s stay clear in my mind unfortunately the situation has become very murky because of liberal policies that have hamstrung any kind of effective action that needs to be made on almost every critical issue. Honestly I wish I had the time to go point to point with you but I don't. At least you seem to be off the Obama bandwagon. As I have mentioned before I was deeply disappointed when McCain got the nod?..but out of the two choices he is by far the better choice. Below is a cut and paste that my guess 202 has already posted here as it has been around for a bit. My dad a WW2 vet actually sent to me and he and I have spoke about these issues at length.

THIS SHOULD BE A 'CIVICS LESSON'
IN EVERY SECONDARY SCHOOL IN AMERICA !!!
I know everyone has a different opinion on the war and our current President. But, this article makes a lot of sense, take 2 minutes, read it , and give it some thought.
When electing the next President, the only decision you have to make is who you want sitting in that seat in the White House when - NOT 'IF' - 'WHEN' we get hit again and millions of American lives are put at risk!'
'You ain't gonna like losing!'
Author unknown
President Bush did make a bad mistake in the war on terrorism. But the mistake was not his decision to go to war in Iraq. Bush's mistake came in his belief that this country is the SAME ONE his father fought for in WWII. It is NOT.
Back then, they had just come out of a vicious depression. The country was steeled by the hardship of that depression, but they still believed fervently in this country. They knew that the people had elected their leaders, so it was the people's duty to back those leaders.
Therefore, when the war broke out the people came together, rallied behind, and stuck with their leaders, whether they had voted for them or not or whether the war was going badly or not.
And war was just as distasteful and the anguish just as great THEN as it is today. Often there were more casualties in one day in WWII than we have had in the entire Iraq war. But that did not matter. The people stuck with the President because it was their 'patriotic' duty. Americans put aside their differences in WWII and worked together to win that war.
Everyone from every strata of society, from young to old pitched in. Small children pulled little wagons around to gather scrap metal for the war effort. Grade school students saved their pennies to buy stamps for war bonds to help the effort.
Men who were too old or medically 4F lied about their age or condition trying their best to join the military.
Women doubled their work to keep things going at home. Harsh rationing of everything from gasoline to soap, to butter was imposed, yet there was very little complaining.
You never heard prominent people on the radio belittling the President. Interestingly enough in those days there were no 'fat cat actors' and 'entertainers' who ran off to visit and fawn over dictators of hostile countries and complain to them about our President. Instead, they made upbeat films and entertained our troops to help the troops' morale. And a bunch even ENLISTED!!
And imagine this: Teachers in schools actually started the day off with a 'Pledge of Allegiance', and with 'prayers' for our country and our troops!!
Back then, NO newspaper would have dared point out certain weak spots in our cities where bombs could be set off to cause the maximum damage. NO newspaper would have dared complain about what we were doing to catch spies. A newspaper would have been laughed out of existence if it had complained that German or Japanese soldiers were being 'tortured' by being forced to wear women's underwear, or subjected to interrogation by a woman, or being scared by a dog or did not have air conditioning.
There were a lot of things different back then. We were not subjected to a constant bombardment of pornography, perversion, and promiscuity in movies or on radio. We did not have legions of crack heads, dope pushers and armed gangs roaming our streets.
No, President Bush did NOT make a mistake in his handling of terrorism. He made the mistake of believing that we still had the courage and fortitude of our fathers. He believed that this was still the country that our fathers fought so dearly to preserve.
It is NOT the same country. It is now a cross between Sodom and Gomorra and the land of Oz. We did unite for a short while after 9/11, but our attitude changed when we found out that defending our country would require some 'sacrifices''.
We are in GREAT danger. The terrorists are fanatic Muslims. They believe that it is okay, even their DUTY, to kill anyone who will not convert to Islam. It has been estimated that about one third or over three hundred million Muslims are 'sympathetic' to the terrorists cause... Hitler and Tojo combined did not have nearly that many potential recruits. So... We either WIN it - or LOSE it - and you ain't gonna like losing!
America is not at war. The military is at war.
America is at the mall ... or watching the movie stars.
Remember Obama said in his book 'Audacity of Hope' ... 'I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction' ... What better place for the Muslins to control our country, than in the 'Office of the President of USA'!!

If you ever forwarded an e-mail ... NOW's the time to do it!
 
Its definetly not the same country. We have it too easy here and we take it for granted. A lot of folks like Dupe have become complacaint and limp wristed bleeding hearts. I much prefer the old school way of dealing with our enemies. It is this middle of the road moderation crap that gets us taken advantage of and Americans killed like on 911.







"dude, nothing we can say will make us like as childish/silly as the rants you post. We HAVE posted the parts, you chose to ignore them. We get it, you like soldiers that sell out their fellow soldiers for political gain, and you hate or hold in contempt those that take a stand. We get that you manage to see NOTHING but bad in Republicans, and nothing put pure and honorable intentions from fellow limp wristed libs. We got it already, now move on."
(PRO July 3, 2008)
 
That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a really long time 202. 911 happened on w's watch but I'll explain all that later. Oh wait, it's time to finger point again, right? Read the post again on how deep in debt we are. We can't afford this war or any other right now. Let's not buy breast implants if we can't afford the bra.
 
zigga, you are wrong AGAIN. We CAN afford the war, what we can't afford is to lose this war, the costs of that would be HUGE. You Chamberlain wannabe's just don't get the FACT that there are people out there that hate us being 'free' and are willing to die to take that away from us, all in the name of Allah.

Back on topic, how can dude/zigga/other SP's say the media is neutral? How is it in America's best interest to have the media picking our leaders instead of the people electing them? I guess as long as their choices are in line with you it's all good in your eyes. Talk about not getting it!

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
We cant afford to lose the war? do you mean the war against terrorist or the war in Iraq? don't tell me they're the same thing unless you're ready to justify your words.the decaying situation in Afghanistan is proof positive Iraq changed nothing. everyone including myself and Obama are all for finding Bin laden and fighting the terrorist in Afghanistan and as much as we can in Pakistan, don't give me any must win crap we've been saying lets fight where the real battle is since Sept 11th 2001.

Ransom check it out for yourself, there have been presidents with a little lower approval ratings but NEVER has there been a president with as high of disapproval rating as GWB. now just to put how bad he's done in perspective GWB also holds the highest approval rating in history, right after 9/11 he was at a record 90%. now tell me for the man with the highest approval rating in history to go to the highest disapproval rating in history he did everything right. this should be good.
 
dude, we can't afford to lose in Iraq/Afghanistan/or anywhere else. The ONLY way we lose is in Washington DC and the media. Which also explains, in part, which Bush has high disapproval ratings. The media has taken sides like no other time in American history, they no longer bother trying to pretend to be neutral. I am unhappy with many things about GWB, but not on the war(s) on terror, which Iraq IS part of. So what does that mean? NOTHING! I am unhappy with ALL the pinheads in DC, not just one or two!

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
Now wait a second, Iraq was supopsed to be the front on the war on terror, the place where we took a stand and " fight them there or fight them here ". now that Iraq is improving the terrorist should be destroyed or at the very least reduced to gangs, no they just moved to a better spot to conduct business and fight.

Our own military says Al Qeada is regrouping in Afghanistan and the Taliban is gaining stregth. Iraq was of little importance and that's now proven, no WMDs, no ties to the terrorist who attacked us and little or no destuction to terrorism in general.

Now that we all agree Iraq was a costly mistake, we can get back to the real war in Afghanistan where we should have focused our full attention for the last 7 years. it's going to be tougher today due to the lost time and resources but at least we have a unified nation behind this effort, that's worth something.
 
"Now that we all agree Iraq was a costly mistake, we can get back to the real war in Afghanistan where we should have focused our full attention for the last 7 years. it's going to be tougher today due to the lost time and resources but at least we have a unified nation behind this effort, that's worth something."

I NEVER said Iraq was a "mistake", not even close. Also, our military says Al Qeada is seriously hurt and ineffective. What info have you been sniffing? Iraq is a VERY important PART of the war on terror. To think the entire war on terror is in Afghanistan is inane! Not only that, it is DUMB! Classic dudespeak to say we should give our "full attention" to only one thing and ignore reality, kind of like your hatred for GWB. DUMB.

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
"To think the entire war on terror is in Afghanistan is inane! Not only that, it is DUMB!"


Where's Osama?
 
He's not being offered for extradition by the Sudanese like he was when offered to Clinton so he's probably not in Sudan. Maybe you could find him before the Nemont hunt if you tried.
This photo will aide you in your search.


488fec622dd8832f.jpg
 
>Where's Osama?

Help me out, is Osama the ONLY muslim who desires to wipe our way of life off the planet? If not, should we really "give all our attention" to finding him? Or, should we be hunting for him AND fighting others who are attempting to bring great harm to America and Americans? Just wondering.

PRO


Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
What some of you are failing to see is how a war on terroists must be fought. It is not a conventional war where two armies meet on the battle field and slug it out until one side is the clear winner.
It is more like water flowing, the terrs go where they feel they can do the most damage. When they meet insurmountable resistance, they pack and leave for better hunting grounds.
A very good percentage of the terrs killed in Iraq were not Iraq citizens, they came in from other muslim countries to fight in Iraq until Bush got smart enought to listen to his commanders and got rid or Rumsfeld and allowed the military to take the fight to the terrs in their safety zones. this was done by converting the Iraqs that was allowing the terrs to operate in their zones.
In Iraq most of the Al Quilda and Taliban terrs have packed up and left, ones not killed, and moved across the border into Packinstan and Afganstan.
Fighting non conventional armies must be handled in a far different matter then a war with conventional armies. You must removed their support base, citizens in the zone helping them, cut their supplies and then kill them with as little damage to the citizens in the area to avoid turning them also against you.
We failed to so this in Viet Nam and lost that war. The Russians failed to do it in Afganistan and lost that war.
The British did not make that mistake if fighting the commie terrs in Malayan,wrong spelling, and they defeated them.
We have them on the run now and must not stop in order for them to regroup and rest and go back into a larger offensive then they can do now.
The irony of this is that the several members of this forum who are yelling about Bush screwing this up, would also screw it up because they have no idea of what it takes to conduct and win this type of warfare. Bush did screw it up in the beginning, but he did a turn around after relizing his screwup and turned it over to his military commanders who have turned the war around to one that can be won. He did this while his ratings went into the crap house and still stuck to his beliefs on being able to win this. You guys that can not see the light at the end of the tunnel after it has shown the surge working, and the winning of the minds and hearts of the many Iraq sections would never be able to win this war and would screw it up far more then our leaders did at the start.

RELH
 
Pro you're so predictable, I was yanking your chain I know you'll never admit Iraq was a mistake you dingbat. that doesn't mean it wasn't a major screw up, it just means you won't admit it.


There was no Al Qaeda in Iraq until we went there, they came, they fought, they decided to take it where it's safer. Iraq changed nothing, anyone with brains enough to pour pee out of a boot knew it and now it's been proven. if things get too rough in Afghanistan they'll slide into Pakistan and regroup, believe me now or believe me later, Iraq made no difference in the big picture.
 
Actually Iraq did effect the big picture, It probably was the biggest thing that has put the American economy in a downward spiral, it showed the rest of the world that America is mostly a paper tiger, it has soured American citizens on preemptive action because of mismanagement and lies and if the surge is the sole reason things are getting better, then why did we wait 5 years to do it? what I wonder about in the long term is the feelings towards the west by the general population of muslims? about 1.2 billion people
 
dude, being someone with brains enough NOT to pee in my boot in the first place unlike you, I can see that KILLING our enemies HAS made a difference. It put the world on notice that the days of doing NOTHING under Bill Clinton are thankfully GONE. This is not a war we can win in a week/month/year, but that does NOT mean we don't fight it, and that we don't squash those who wish to do us great harm.

piper, not even sure what you are spouting. Are you saying because there are muslims that out number us we should just bend over and kiss our way of life good bye? That may be the 'piper' way, but it is NOT the American way.

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
" There was no Al Qaeda in Iraq until we went there"

Dude that statement is an out and out lie on your part. Lets be honest with our statements here.

The truth is our military kicked the ever lovin crap out of al quida in afgahnastan and they set up shop in Iraq. Al quida in Iraq coupled with the WMD's slam dunk could not stand.

Iraq in my opinion was not a mistake. have mistakes been made? Yes. Are mistakes made in every war? Yes. Do our leaders try and minimise mistakes? Yes.

But don't go around spreading lies Dupe it make you look even more rediculous than you already are.










"dude, nothing we can say will make us like as childish/silly as the rants you post. We HAVE posted the parts, you chose to ignore them. We get it, you like soldiers that sell out their fellow soldiers for political gain, and you hate or hold in contempt those that take a stand. We get that you manage to see NOTHING but bad in Republicans, and nothing put pure and honorable intentions from fellow limp wristed libs. We got it already, now move on."
(PRO July 3, 2008)
 

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