LOOK OUT Montana!!! They want a nother national park!

I read it and it doesn't seem bad.
Things change, nothing ever stays the same, what gets you so upset?
Do you hate wealthy people? you do understand that the biggest reason we don't have more elk in most places is because of the cattle industry? you do know that the reason we have so few bighorn sheep is because of the domestic sheep industry?

Im not blanketly saying ranchers are bad, but whining about this to a bunch of avid big game hunters doesn't make much sense.
I would love to hunt truly wild bison someday.
 
What get s me upset? First of all consider the source... Bloomberg News.

Secondly, this is property where families, genreations of ranchers and farmers have lived. The area in question supplies over 2 million people with beef.

I am further concerned that this will result in privatization of public wildlife.

It has nothing to do with being rich, but about the loss of opportunity, the loss of the American people to be self reliant, etc.

Basically once that property is gone, it will never come back. They will take millions of acres out of production, they will take millions of acres off the books for hunting, etc...

I am not against rich people, wish I was one, but this will be bad for hunters, ranchers etc.
 
here is more info... The entire Breaks area is their goal!!!


We've been fighting this for several years now... They started pretty quietly, and bought a little land here and there, then once they had a foothold, they really started to push for more land and contiguous land so that they could make south Phillips County into a free-roaming bison preserve. Their long-term goal is to make the CMR and the Breaks into a huge wildlife preserve and make sure that no one gets to use or hunt or graze or ranch that area ever again. As the article points out, they seem to ignore the fact that the only reason the area is such great habitat is because of the efforts of the ranchers that currently manage the land...
 
While I don't like it and don't want wild bison wandering around here as I live very near the APR. I find it interesting that when it comes time to sell, the ranchers find the highest willing payer to be the one they sell to.

If you can figure out a way to out bid the APR for ranches and grazing you can come in buy it out from under them. They are not doing anything illegal.

Most of the lands they have bought are base property attached to large grazing allotments on public lands and the have leased back the grazing to the guys who have been grazing it for years.

The beef is still being produced at the same level as before. Look at a map of the area and all the public lands is what first attracted them.

The Nature Conservancy has been buying up ranches in the same area for many years.

Linda Poole is a straight shooter.

Nemont
 
What don't you get... they are not going to allow hunting. they are looking to make it much like a national park....

Do you really think you could just get a tag and go hunting? I too am OK with seeing increased hunting opportunity, but this will have the opposite effect!
 
generations of native Americans onced live there also, and millions of Bison lived there, things change over time.
I wouldn't worry about beef production, grass will still turn into protein, maybe more bison will be on the menu?, people will still be self reliant.

Did it say no hunting? I may have missed that part, I wonder how they will control the herds?
The property will still be there it won't be gone, but the privatization of wildlife part is confusing, what exactly do you mean?
 
Anyone that can read that piece saying how millions of acres are being taken out of use for anyone but sightseers at best needs to rethink the ramifications. Between millions of acres of leased lands that are now out of bounds to the avergage Joe, along with this type of land grab they're prepetrating, there will be thatless acreage for any type of recreation other than driving along and taking photos like a National Park.
 
They maybe that way now, but I will bet you anything that in 20 years if they have what they want they will simply push everyone out. I do not see them wanting anything short of a national park open to only tourist!

I read where their plan was to make all of the breaks a preserve.

I do not like the idea at all. I do believe that they are currently good neighbors, and they are playing nice with Ranchers, that will only last until they feel like they have enough control to change it. It will not end with results we would hope! I looked at the list of contributors, none are openly hunters and I recognized a couple as very anti hunting!
 
>While I don't like it and
>don't want wild bison wandering
>around here as I live
>very near the APR.
> I find it interesting
>that when it comes time
>to sell, the ranchers find
>the highest willing payer to
>be the one they sell
>to.
>
>If you can figure out a
>way to out bid the
>APR for ranches and grazing
>you can come in buy
>it out from under them.
> They are not
>doing anything illegal.
>
>Most of the lands they have
>bought are base property attached
>to large grazing allotments on
>public lands and the have
>leased back the grazing to
>the guys who have been
>grazing it for years.
>
>The beef is still being produced
>at the same level as
>before. Look at a
>map of the area and
>all the public lands is
>what first attracted them.
>
>The Nature Conservancy has been buying
>up ranches in the same
>area for many years.
>
>Linda Poole is a straight shooter.
>
>
>Nemont


HMM,ANYTIME I HEAR THE WORDS NATURE CONSERVANCY,IT CAN'T BE GOOD, REMEMBER WHO BACKED THE CANADIAN GREY KILLERS!!
 
I have an idea. Lets invent ROA's they are sort of like HOA's but they get to tell private rural landowners what they can and can't do with their property. Yeah that's the ticket . Elks can be the head of this ROA in Montana. Liberty, who needs it? Is this America? Where people fight for control of other' property so it can maintain a past time??????
 
Tris tell us what you think of the prosal of the greys river subdivision in Wy? BOK class warefare BOK!
 
LAST EDITED ON May-22-13 AT 04:58PM (MST)[p]
How are they going to keep us off of the public lands? The status of BLM land doesn't change because the base property is sold. If the status is that easily change we won't have access to in the future anyway.

Do you believe the BLM and the USFWS, The Corps of Engineers are all going to give up management of the lands they currently manage?

Change scares people, I don't like it but I can't outbid them and the land owners who sell seem to like the top dollar they receive from the APR. That is capitalism. Their money is just as green as other people's.

Nemont
 
"Tris tell us what you think of the prosal of the greys river subdivision in Wy? BOK class warefare BOK!"


I am not be a smartass but I really don't know what this means. Please clarify and I will attempt to answer.
 
elks96 said "What get s me upset? First of all consider the source... Bloomberg News.

Secondly, this is property where families, genreations of ranchers and farmers have lived. The area in question supplies over 2 million people with beef.

I am further concerned that this will result in privatization of public wildlife.

It has nothing to do with being rich, but about the loss of opportunity, the loss of the American people to be self reliant, etc.

Basically once that property is gone, it will never come back. They will take millions of acres out of production, they will take millions of acres off the books for hunting, etc...

I am not against rich people, wish I was one, but this will be bad for hunters, ranchers etc."

So let me get this straight. You are upset about free press. You are upset about the free market. You are upset about the rights of property owners. Did I miss anything?

Would you feel better if Fox news reported this?

No one is forcing these ranchers to sell. If they want to keep the ranch in the family they can.
 
This is rather ironic in that I hear on the OYOA website all the Montana residents bitching about all the good hunting land being leased by outfitters such that they would have to pay to hunt land they previously had free access to. Then I read this thread where land would be purchased solely for the purpose of preventing further hunting from now on and people think that's okay. If PETA and the other anti groups got together and started using their money in the same way this group intends to do we, as hunters, will be in deep dodo!
 
So your telling me that making this National Park is oging to be good for hunters? You really think they are just going to let guys like us walk in and shoot a buffalo? They are going to close it. No doubt about it.

I looked at least 4 big donors have given to other antihunting organizations as well and not a single one of the big donors are giving to the groups like the RMEF, etc.
 
Its not going to be a national park, "like a park" isn't the same.

I notice a picture in the article of the German billionare that owns a ranch with buffalo around here, best buffalo I have ever tasted.
By all accounts he is a good guy and he has done some good things for this community.
 
LAST EDITED ON May-22-13 AT 10:17PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON May-22-13 AT 10:15?PM (MST)

LAST EDITED ON May-22-13 AT 10:14?PM (MST)

These guys are going to be able to hold onto the same ag. tax breaks the the ranchers were getting, And in some cases get an even
better property tax rate than the ranchers were getting.

This takes a big chunks out of local economys.

If they can afford to buy the land good for them, but don't give them a feel good tax break. Not unless everybody gets the same.

It is kind of like saying," if I don't mow my lawn and get some gound squirls to move in I only have to pay half of my property tax."
 
Elks, explain how the APR close BLM land to the public and then explain how they get the USFWS to change the CMR from a wildlife refuge to a national park.

That cannot be done using the National monument loop hole, it would require legislation to change the designation of those lands.

Deal in reality not make believe

Nemont
 
TOPGUN, to be fair, not all of us Montanans ##### about outfitters "leasing all the good hunting ground". mtmuley
 
LAST EDITED ON May-23-13 AT 03:35PM (MST)[p]Seriously you need proof about how groups can get land closure through? How they can limit access? last year an area Ihave always hunted was closed by the BLM because of the drought and the horse lovers worrying about hunters pushing the horses from the water source.

In their staff listing they list members of the Wildlife Society, and THE GYP. Both not usually hunting friendly.

Look at it this way, you have a growing movement in the state, they have a singleness in purpose, and they have some significant backing and power with their dollars. they are going to advocate for a wild area with no human interruption. they may not close hunting down all together, but they sure could advocate for closing all roads, creating a barrier of wilderness study areas around the place, etc.

As the land lock pieces of BLM/NF they will have bargaining chips for trade etc. I am scared of this group for a reason.
 
LAST EDITED ON May-23-13 AT 09:14PM (MST)[p]

Were the BLM closure prudent for fire danger? Were they permanent or temporary, if permanent did they hold public meetings explaining the closure?

Are you scared billionaires buying up 100's of thousand acres and land locking public lands?

http://billingsgazette.com/news/sta...cle_e5d4b7cc-f23b-509f-b6d7-80c94c75b041.html

The APR doesn't do that, they could but they have not yet. Actions speak louder than words for me and I have been on their properties and nothing much has changed.

There is a Huge Wilderness study area north of me and it is wide open to hunting. In fact the hunting up there used to be great until it was made into a wilderness study area and the word got out now it looks like a KOA on opening day and I have had to go else where.

Change is a fact of life, if things change there will still be hunting. This group has yet prove that this is viable model for land management, it is currently bidding high prices for land and the ranchers selling seem to think their money is just as green as the next.

I don't trust anybody but this group ,so far, isn't the devil and now has ranchers approaching them to sell off their base properties and lease back the grazing. If our own ranchers who own the lands in question are selling what exactly do you believe you are going to do to stop this?

Nemont
 
So what's the difference between ranchers land, and these gm
uys? Either way I will not be able to hunt the private land. Sounds one of the same to me.
I guess if I had millions I would do the same.
 
Sounds like the Y2Y project that no one believed was real, may in fact, be closer to the truth than anyone wanted to believe.
 

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