Legal Question

[2lumpy]

Legal Question

LAST EDITED ON Jul-02-11 AT 07:42PM (MST)[p]I would really prefer a Judge, if we have any on here, from Colorado, Nevada or Utah to express an opinion as to the law regarding the following vehicle (it's a mock up as of yet). An attorney's opinion would be worthwhile as well.

Others, while I respect all of your opinions, I'd ask that you not confuse my questions with your opinions on this question as I would very much like to know what I can legally do the next time this happens.

1. May I drive a vehicle displaying these remarks?

2. If someone is attempting to force me off the road with their vehicle, am I allowed to protect myself with a legal firearm?

For you law enforcement folks. I highly regard the difficult task and the danger you are all willing to face, everyday, to keep us all safe, thank you.

If your a police officer, what would you do if you came up behind a vehicle displaying these stickers?

Bottomline is this, must we continue to have our lives threatened by these unstable individuals driving our roads. Is our only option to dive into the borrow-pit and hope we can keep from killing ourself and anyone else in our vehicle? Or am I the unstable one, in your experience.

DC

 

[B_BOP_A_LU_LU]

RE: Legal Question

Well!

If you've ever drove the Mormon 500!

Lots of them just like that,alot of them not sportin the signs though!

For GAWDS Sakes Guys,We Got Kids on this Site,Some of them are 65 years Old!

I don't care if they're big or small!
If they throw lead I like em all!

 

[never_satisfied]

RE: Legal Question

LMAO B BOP
I live 15 mile from the Mormon 500 destination
I love just sitting out on my porch each night and enjoying the cluster

 

[B_BOP_A_LU_LU]

RE: Legal Question

While I was running the Mormon 500 this morning I tuned in to KSL 1160!

Sounds like out around Lehi or somewhere out there the Announcer asked how many illegals were in the crowd?

Mentioned something about loading them on a Train!

Guess there were a few of Homie's relates in the Crowd & it didn't go over too well!





For GAWDS Sakes Guys,We Got Kids on this Site,Some of them are 65 years Old!

I don't care if they're big or small!
If they throw lead I like em all!

 

[WapitiBob]

RE: Legal Question

I would suggest watching a little more Nascar. You should be able to Earnhart the next guy pretty easily.

 

[Longun]

RE: Legal Question

I know this is suppose to be a funny thread but...driving is a privilege, not a right..

 

[grizzlyplumber]

RE: Legal Question

Just a suggestion, I have noticed I get cut off much more in my wifes minivan than in my truck. I drive an older dodge diesel with lots of dents and several NRA stickers and its amazing the respect/fear that this truck inspires.

 

[velvetmonster]

RE: Legal Question

Lumpy--

I cannot come up with a law (in Utah at least) that would prevent you from displaying these signs...there may be some obscure traffic law that prevents it but you'll have to find a trooper to tell you that. Disorderly conduct comes to mind but I don't think so. What I would be more worried about is what happens when you actually shoot at someone? You may have a great defense for doing it...however...your signs WILL come into play and may give the appearance that you either planned or instigated the situation. This would be true both in criminal and civil court.

That being said...I find them quite entertaining.

VM

 

[2lumpy]

RE: Legal Question

Thanks VM. I would never, ever want to shot anyone. However, this last hopped up sucker made 4 runs at me before I finally pulled over. Is there anything that people can do to protect themselves from this kind of insanity. Do we just have to let them do bodily harm before we respond? Can we ever respond directly. If this guy did this to a off duty law enforcement officer, what would the law enforcement officer do? Does a citizen have any "right" to protect themselves from an attacker in a vehicle or is that also a "privilege" that we need to be granted or provided. I mean, what can you do to protect yourself from a 5,000 pound vehicle coming at you at that rate of speed. Punch it? What other defense do you have other than meeting force with equal or greater force? I'm not going to throw my vehicle (even my beat-up diesel truck) into his and end up upside down on the highway, possibly killing myself and my passengers, so what other means of protection do I have beside a firearm? This kind of stuff is not NASCAR or bumper cars at the country fair. This guy was willing to kill me, based on his behavior. By the way, he's in the can in Mesquite Nevada but that part of the story is more than I'm going to get into on here.

What is the different between someone shooting at you 4 times with a firearm and missing and someone running a vehicle going 70 (or 10) miles an hour at you and missing? Is there a difference, under the law?

I know the signs are nonsense, this guy would have never read them anyway nor would anyone else in his frame of mind.

Just wanted some legal opinions, maybe it will clarify it for others that find themselves in the same environment. This is the second time it's happened to me, to this degree. I'm not talking about guys swerving in and our of traffic, driving aggressively etc. that happens regularly on our freeways. This was personal and took place over a period of miles.

DC

 

[dleonard3]

RE: Legal Question

I'm pretty sure that a police officer (if asked) would tell you to do what ever is needed to protect yourself. But I would add that whatever you decide to do, be prepared to pay the consequences if you happen to break any laws while you're protecting yourself.

I think you've handled your situations pretty well. You are still alive and un-injured, and so is the idiot that is attacking you with his vehicle. So far, so good. Don't fix what aint broke.

 

[AZStickman]

RE: Legal Question

DC...... When was the last time you had a drivers ed refresher course?....... Terry

 

[sageadvice]

RE: Legal Question

2Lumpy, I don't know about the laws but arming yourself with the obvious premeditated intent to protect from, or take it to, bad drivers... that in itself sounds, to me, like a serious form of road rage!

I feel for you, been there, but in any example, i don't believe that gunfights on the freeways is the answer.

Joey

 

[Roy]

RE: Legal Question

Of course you can display it - that's what freedom of speech is all about.

Is it wise? Well that is to be determined through your actions. Sometimes it is better to remain silent and be considered a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt.

That being said, I have a small sticker in my window that says "Protected by Smith and Wesson" that really helps back the traffic off. Noticed a big difference about a week after I had put it up. Now, because I don't yet have a CCH - I really don't carry my pistol with me unless I am headed to the range, but the other travelers don't know that!

UTROY
Proverbs 21:19 (why I hunt!)

 

[2lumpy]

RE: Legal Question

LAST EDITED ON Jul-05-11 AT 10:11PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jul-05-11 AT 10:06?PM (MST)

It looks like the consensus is to that I'm the unbalanced one. Not sure I can get that to go down very well but it's sometimes hard to see the forest for the trees. I accept your opinions. Guess was having one of those moments, not on the highway, but in my living room, after the fact.

Roy-thanks for your insights. Your sign is smaller and more subtle but don't see much difference in it's underlying meaning or intent. My sign just spells it out. Mine would or could be discerned as provoking, yours more of a whisper, same message. Yes/No

Sage-your are right on, a gun fight on a freeway is a very bad idea, don't know where you can find a good place for a gunfight unless your going to do an old fashion dual. Would then, any citizen, that arms themselves "with premeditated intent to protect", be exhibiting a form of rage? It seems as your thinking is there is a difference between protecting yourself if it involves a vehicle vs someone that randomly starts shooting at you walking down a street. I know there's a difference in the weapon and the setting, maybe that's what I'm somehow missing. Sage, I respect your view of the world, you've said in the pass that you've never gone looking for trouble but never backed away for it either. I believe you, I do. I have walked away, more than once. Slamdunk and his wife are very, very lucky tonight, they are not dead today. They trying to walk away from a knothead driving a motor home. See his post today "Roadbike crash....would you sell it?" My case seems be no difference except I was fortunate enough not to hit a soft spot. I can't seem to see the difference, I guess I'm screwed up.

AZ-I've never had a driver education course of any kind. Learn to drive as a pre-teen driving first tractors then farm trucks. At age 15 my 16 year old buddy road with me for a year under a learners permit. I read the drivers license manual and took the exam, passed it, took the examiner for a drive and was given a drivers license. That's the way it was done in 1963. Clearly you believe there is something I need know or be taught that I'm missing. Briefly, that is it regarding this question that I should go learn from a driver's ed refresher class? Seriously, I'd like to know.

dleonard3-"be prepared to pay the consequences if you happen to break any laws while you're protecting yourself". Perfect thinking, and it's why there isn't total anarchy in these incidents ,50 times a day, and I wonder if that fact isn't a large part of the underlying problem with these rage folks, they know going in, the rest of us are going to be more afraid we'll be the one found guilty if and when we choose to stop them before we are road rash. There is amply history to prove your point and we should all carry your logic foremost in our mind and our behavior.

velvetm-your exactly right as well, the signs would be viewed as "instigated the situation" or provoking at the least, I think you could actually make the same argument that Roy's "Protected by Smith and Wesson" sticker is doing or could be doing the same thing. ie: "challenging someone to try". So, we are damned if we do, damned if we don't, or so it seems. Maybe Slamdunk and his wife would be looking forward to another afternoon ride if they'd had a "Protected by Smith and Wesson" logo on their leathers?
Regarding your being entertained. Well.......it helped me boil back down a notch which was therapeutic for me at the time.

After your observations I'm thinking of a different sign for entertainment purposes, of course. It will say, in small print, stuck in the rear side window in lower corner of my car. It will be in a circle so it's a littler harder to read: "I promise to piss my pants anytime anyone asks me to."

DC

 

[dleonard3]

RE: Legal Question

DC, I really respect you for your ability to control yourself, not only at the moment, but also after the immediate danger has passed and you have a chance to stew about it. Your ability to think things through and listen to the advice of others shows me that you are an intelligent and thoughtful human being. We need more people like you in this world. I have met so many people that react on impulse without thinking things through, it is refreshing to see someone actually figure out the best way for them to handle things.

 

[AZStickman]

RE: Legal Question

"Briefly, that is it regarding this question that I should go learn from a driver's ed refresher class? Seriously, I'd like to know."

Nothing malicious intended, just an observation that if this is happening to you repeatedly maybe you are doing something you are not aware of to cause the reaction. I had to attend traffic school some years back and I went into it just intending to put in my time and avoid a blemish on my driving record that could drive up my insurance rates. I actually came out of it a better driver...... Terry

 

[2lumpy]

RE: Legal Question

Thank you AZ. Might just follow up on your suggestion. I've got two good friends that teach drivers education here at our high school, maybe I'll ask one if I can set in on their next session.

dleonard3-LOL-that is not what my wife tells me and she knows me a lot better than you. But thanks for the love, I need it.

DC