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Leftovers Are Posted

anything piss you off more than to see plenty of the tags left that you already put in for. i understand things happen, but there are more tags left for the hunt i want than there should be. another donation... GREAT ...
 
I saw the sheet at the F&G this am, and I could not believe the tags that were left over.
 
What kind of draw odds are we talking about here? Do many people apply compared to the first application? It seems like many people would forget, but with a lot less tags it might be about the same odds of drawing a tag.
 
if there are leftover tags, does that mean that everyone who put in first choice in the main drawing drew? i thought mule deer hunts in unit 18, and early 39 were hard to get?
 
Hey Cowboy,

Most of these tags like 18 and 39 are tags that were already drawn on the first go round, but for some reason the lucky people who got 'em didn't pick them up. So now we get a shot at them. Why you wouldn't pick them up is beyond me? But by the numbers it obviously happens a lot.

Kicker
 
my sediments exactly, I've been putting in for unit36a-1 since 1987 that makes 21 years if my math serves me right with no luck. Then to see people draw tags and not pick them up is utterly mind boggling. I understand things happen like gas 4.00 dollars a gallon, death in the family, pissed of wife, but beleive you me if I drew a unit 36a-1 elk tag nothing short of my death would stop me from picking up the tag.
 
Sorry elkster. I have been trying for 8 yrs on that tag. This year tried for the archery tag and put my wife in for that tag and she drew it the first year. Son whacked his cow in there last year.
 
i was in the F&G office on monday and in the 15 minutes i was there about 4-5 people called in and were asking if it was too late to buy their tag....of course it was. Some people just forget that it has to be purchased by a certain date. Didnt use to be like that, Idaho changed that a few years back. seems to get a little better every year with people remembering tho. tough lesson to learn i bet.

the way i look at it is.....gives me a second chance!

.....and yes, the odds are terrible.

travis
 
Supersider do you remember I meet you in Walmart last year in Jerome. Ya Idaho really sucks when it comes permits or I am just a un lucky mofo. 21 years is a long time I would give my front teeth to go into castle peak and hunt elk again. The last elk I shot was in 1987.
 
orion is right, if you guys think that this years left overs are crazy, you must not have been paying attention the last 4 years, in the past, almost every unit in the state had several tags left. every year scince the deadline rule, more and more people have caught on, and are getting tags in time, i guess in a few more years there wont be a hell of a lot of tags in the 2nd draw. in some cases, these seconds have worse drawing odds than the first draw, but some one has to draw right!
 
if i remeber correctly antis were putting in and thinking they were doing something to stop the hunting in the begining it kinda did, then when they came out with the spend more cash donations for a chance at the leftovers..they actually are helping cause more money generated means more money goes to the animals in theory.....


47e9fcb352ad748f.jpg

has anyone seen my kittie
 
>orion is right, if you guys
>think that this years left
>overs are crazy, you must
>not have been paying attention
>the last 4 years, in
>the past, almost every unit
>in the state had several
>tags left. every year scince
>the deadline rule, more and
>more people have caught on,
>and are getting tags in
>time, i guess in a
>few more years there wont
>be a hell of a
>lot of tags in the
>2nd draw. in some cases,
>these seconds have worse drawing
>odds than the first draw,
>but some one has to
>draw right!
I don't think there are any tags that have better odds the second draw then the first. You can check the odds from the last few years on the IDFG website. Almost all the good tags will have 1 in 100 odds some worse some a little better. When I say better it is still 1 in 50+.

I'm with all of you guys also.... why somone wouldn't pick up there tag is beyond me. Good luck to everyone.

IB
 
Try posting it on here.
2008 Second Drawing Deer, Elk, Pronghorn and Black Bear Controlled Hunt Permits
The following permits were not issued in the first controlled hunt drawing and are available in the second application period from August 5 - August 15.

Please check the Big Game Rules Brochure and the Controlled Hunt Information section for details on each hunt and specific controlled hunt information.


Deer
Hunt Number Permits Available
1001 3
1002 6
1003 4
1005 2
1006 15
1007 6
1008 2
1009 2
1012 1
1016 3
1021 12
Hunt Number Permits Available
1022 3
1023 3
1024 3
1025 14
1026 4
1027 1
1029 1
1031 1
1032 1
1033 13
1036 18
Hunt Number Permits Available
1037 4
1040 4
1043 2
1045 8
1046 10
1047 26
1048 20
1049 206
1050 25
1051 12
1052 103
Hunt Number Permits Available
1053 66
1054 22
1055 15
1056 12
1057 31
1058 23
1059 8
1061 10
1062 7
1063 26
1064 8
Hunt Number Permits Available
1065 9
1066 8
1067 11
1068 8
1069 1
1071 2
1072 8
1073 228
1074 15
1075 246
1076 17
Hunt Number Permits Available
1077 15
1078 7
1079 2
1080 79
1081 1
1082 4
1083 8
1084 7
1086 2
1087 7
1088 22
Hunt Number Permits Available
1089 32
1090 38
1091 51
1092 9
1093 13
1094 12
1095 181
Elk
Hunt Number Permits Available
2002 7
2005 7
2008 1
2010 3
2011 2
2012 1
2013 2
2015 2
2017 5
2018 1
2019 9
Hunt Number Permits Available
2020 1
2021 5
2023 6
2025 9
2026 2
2028 6
2029 2
2032 1
2033 2
2034 4
2035 1
Hunt Number Permits Available
2037 12
2038 1
2039 8
2041 2
2042 10
2043 2
2044 3
2045 5
2046 3
2047 5
2048 3
Hunt Number Permits Available
2049 7
2050 24
2052 2
2054 1
2055 28
2056 83
2057 10
2058 9
2059 4
2060 9
2061 19
Hunt Number Permits Available
2062 140
2063 5
2064 58
2065 8
2066 63
2067 22
2070 11
2071 4
2073 5
2074 1
2075 72
Hunt Number Permits Available
2076 11
2078 9
2079 17
2080 3
2081 4
2082 3
2084 8
2085 2
2086 6
2087 2
2088 5
Hunt Number Permits Available
2089 44
2090 19
2091 20
2093 9
2094 11
2095 5
2096 11
2097 7
2098 4
2099 6
2100 4
Hunt Number Permits Available
2101 7
2102 63
2103 13
2104 14
2105 6
2108 8
2109 9
2110 1
2111 6
2112 46
2113 7
Hunt Number Permits Available
2114 45
2115 23
2117 11
2118 14
2119 6
2121 3
2122 5
2123 9
2124 60
2125 11
2126 2
Hunt Number Permits Available
2127 30
2128 32
2130 33
2132 5
2134 45
2135 1
2136 7
2137 2
2202 47
2203 26
2204 77
Hunt Number Permits Available
2205 69
2206 13
2207 15
2209 41
Pronghorn
Hunt Number Permits Available
4001 1
4006 5
4007 10
4008 1
4009 2
4010 1
4012 5
4013 4
4015 2
4017 2
4018 2
Hunt Number Permits Available
4019 2
4020 3
4021 1
4022 2
4026 5
4028 4
4029 7
4031 2
4032 3
4033 6
Black Bear
Hunt Number Permits Available
8502 2
 
Thanks. Still not able to get in. Seems to happen at times when lots of folks are on a website. Our work servers are normally pretty quick. will try from home tonight. should be less people on then.
 
Thanks SS34. I've tried every link imaginable and it just takes forever to load and then finally just gives me some kind of internet error.
 
Yeah if you look at the revenue that the department is taking in from just a few tags in each unit, regardless of if everyone bought there tag or not, theres always going to be a few left over for the 2nd chance. Example being fall bear unit 8502 last yr had 3 left over tags and 217 people put in for that....you do the math, this yr theres 2 left over tags for that unit. Idahos second chance drawing, nothing more then brilliant marketing strategy to suck more money out of my wallet, hahaha!
 
I second that!
Come on unit 70!!

"I shoot at wolves, I don't dance with them." :)
Stands With A Fist
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-07-08 AT 06:04PM (MST)[p]I just did the math and on 2007 2nd deer drawing. Keep in mind this is just deer;
7397 people put in the for the second draw at 6.25 each that is $46,231.25. There were 2137 tags availble counting DOE TAGS. Of that 2137 available tags only 1260 were actually drawn wich tells you there were a lot of tags nobody even wants to apply for. So 1260/7397 is 17% overall chance of drawing in the 2nd draw.

But 17% in no way relects the odds in the second drawing. If you look at some of the trophy units your odds are less than 1%. Some cases more like .5%, like 200 guys trying to get 1 tag. What a bunch of BS, what the F&G should do is put all the people that didn't draw the first time around back in for the remaining tags, instead of milking another 6.25 donation out of each of us.
 
How about a little straw poll: An alternative method for distributing these unclaimed permits would be to add an appropriate number of permits to the allocation of the first draw. The appropriate number can be calculated from the previous history of numbers of people who fail to purchase permits (like a 3-year average). The extra permits would typically amount to 1-5% of the total permits. For example, in a hunt with 100 permits, you might allocate 102 permits, knowing that, on average, 100 permits would actually be purchased. The advantage is being able to do away with the second draw. Disadvantages are people who put in for moose, sheep, and goat would not have an opportunity for a second draw for deer, elk, or pronghorn. Oregon started running their draw this way several years ago. What do Idaho hunters think?

Tom Keegan
IDFG Salmon Region Wildlife Manager
 
Keep it the way it is. $6.25 per species isn't a lot of money and if the fish and game put it to good use, it raises a little more money for them.
 
Keep it the way it is. Gives some people more hope for a little while longer.
 
How about charging the full price for the tag upfront, like trophy species, so that their won't be an issue of not picking up the tags.
 
I agree with shed. Why not give the folks who put in on the first draw dibs on putting in for the second draw, then any left over can go up for first come, first serve. Seems more fair to me. But, how would you do that in reality. Dun no.


"I shoot at wolves, I don't dance with them." :)
Stands With A Fist
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-08-08 AT 01:34PM (MST)[p] Yea! I like that idea to. I put in for certain hunts every year and I believe it would be more fair to only compete on the second draw against those who put in for that hunt in their first draw. Any left overs go to those who did not put in for those hunts in their first draw. I think I said that right.
Ain't gonna happen though!
 
I think the current system is the most fair for every body...

I do understand those that really want a specific tag only to see somone else draw it and not even bother to pick it up. (this has happened to most all of us) However, that is their choice not yours. They were the ones lucky enough to draw the tag not you. If they choose not to pick it up so what. It is not any business of yours or mine.
As far as only allowing the folks who put in for it the first time to have a chance at it the second time... that does sound like a more fair way of doing it, but agian those tags do not belong to any one group of people more that any other. So they should not be limited as such. I think it is more fair to offer them to all who wich to apply for them..
I do not think adding tags to the mix based on the idea that some number will not pick them up is a good idea.
Becides it generates money that is voulentarly donated, thus it must help keep the price of tags and licences down in general. (the 46,000 listed above for deer). After all you don't have to apply right?
I only feel this way in a situation with no preference point system and ample opportunity to hunt OTC on public ground.
 
How about just drawing a few more applicants for each hunt in the first draw and put them on a waitng list? Then they issue the tags to the "runners up" after the Aug 1 deadline. Similar to the way Utah distributes tags when people turn them back in.
 
I like that one to UGA, ain't gonna happen, they're generating to much money on the second draw.
 
Thanks for the input. Just an idea that has worked elsewhere and a way to address the complaint that IDFG is running a second draw simply to generate funding, but if people "like" the current system, that's great. Some may recall the second draw replaced a 1-year first-come, first-served that proved unworkable (reports of vendors creating there own waiting lists, fist fights in lines, and system overload).

Drawing alternates is another possibility. Oregon tried a "next-in-line" or "alternate" system for a few years. The number of phone calls needed to contact the alternates became staggering and a took a huge amount of time, particularly when group applications were involved (they called group leader, then leader has to call everyone in group to see if they still want the tag, and so on). Ended up with some people not getting a chance to accept a tag until just before a season started and used a lot of extra temporary staff funding.

The money-up-front system can become a problem of sorts when people who don't draw (first draw) then purchase a general season tag. If they draw later (2nd draw), they have to exchange tags for the exchange fee. If that happens at a large scale, it can bog down the license sales system for everyone.

Tom Keegan
IDFG Salmon Region Wildlife Manager
 
UGA hit it square on the head,, i have thought that way for years.. i think that would be the fair way of going about things.
but i don't think F&G is to concerned about being fair,, there concern is $$$$$...
and rightly so they gotta operate..
so i have to go with the ones that say leave it the way it is,,
cuz they would have to come up with that money some how..

salmonfg/// Tom
i appreciate you coming on here and giving your input,, it sure helps see things from both sides,
 
There are some great ideas out there and the more I think about it the more I conclude that the current system is probably the most fair to everyone.

And really I don't have any problems donating $6.25 again I just hope it is used effectively. I'm not accusing the F&G of spending funds inefficiantly; I'd just like to see the money dedicated to certain things. Like if the F&G were to announce that "all application fees generated by this second drawing will be spent on habitat improvement, predator control, paying for enforcement of trail and road closures to protect big game, or protecting winter range from developement", etc, etc. In which case I would be willing to pay more.

I like UGA's waiting list idea, but I don't know if I'd get any sleep if I was on that list. And if the money generated from the second drawing keeps our tag fees lower or helps our big game then why stop a good thing. After all even a 1% chance is still a chance and most of us are gamblers at heart anyway.
 
shed, if they did it like ut, their wouldnt be a list, you have no idea untill they call you!

i like it the way it is, gives me just one more chance!
 
I think going back to putting your money up front is the best option. First off, I think there would be less people putting in overall because the people that aren't really serious about it aren't going to put that much money up front. Second, this would all but eliminate the need for a 2nd draw as the tag and permit fees would already be paid for up front. If the person didn't use the tag, so what, it was already purchased. The only tags that would be up for a 2nd drawing would be pure "leftover" permits that did not generate enough interest the first time around...and once again, make people put there money where their mouth is.

Idaho used to do the money up front thing, but I guess they generate more on the bottom line doing it the way they do it now.
 
300 winnie,
the problem with that idea is that many very hard to draw tags were going unused. Its not about collecting the fees, its making sure the tags get used.

Thats what started the whole second drawing thing anyway.
 
In part correct. Second draw started a few years ago because a LOT of tags were going unclaimed/unused under a no money up front process, which was a waste of hunting opportunity and an unnecessary loss of funding.

Money up front in Idaho was before my time here, but that approach sometimes draws criticism from some hunters (e.g., too much investment/money tied up for families/youths putting in, not fair to the average working guy, issue of agency holding money/making interest [although many states still do it]). Note, these are not my reasoning, simply those that I have heard. Another drawback from the use of your license dollars standpoint is that it costs the agency money to issue a refund check. I don't know the amount, but seem to recall it was more than most would think.

A second draw also reduces the likelihood of the sometimes feared instance of someone purposely putting in for a tag they had no intention of using (although for a nonresident to do this - i.e., the big antihunting groups "back east" - they have to purchase a NR hunting license, which is fairly large investment in itself - over $140).

Thanks again for all the input.

Tom Keegan
IDFG Salmon Region Wildlife Manager
 
SalmonFG good post! Thanks for the info...I guess no matter how its set up these days somebody will complain...
 
My son wants a Moose tag BAD. He is 14 and he has had the chance to get two deer and 1 elk on the second draw. He filled all three tags. The system we have now may not be perfect but in this case Jacob gets to hunt the youth hunts, and put in for a moose. Ron
 
>SalmonFG good post! Thanks for the
>info...I guess no matter how
>its set up these days
>somebody will complain...

Exactly!! Go look at the post about how many prefernece points guys are building up and still not drawing a tag!!!! Some of them are way over tripple digets for several states and still not pulling a tag..

Not to hijack the thread, but we should realize that we are talking about Idaho and limited entry tags that are avaliable again! Without points and to anybody! At the same time guys are talking about 100's of years (total) worth of point banking in other states and still not pulling a tag. yeah points sure sound like the way to go to me; what a joke.

SALMONFG Please take note. IDAHO does it just fine. NO points and the left over tag system is fine.
 
Keep it the way it is.A second drawing still takes time to be processed,people still have to do the work, ect...And its the LAST chance a lot of us have to draw ANY tags for the year.I KINDA look forward to it,SAD I KNOW...
 
Thats why it is the way it is..the point thing got shot down for a good reason.... This is the exact reason Idaho is managed for oppurtunity and not quality...let em fight over that $hit in Utah,Arizona and those places everyone is crying about having all these points and no tags to show for it...
 

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