LE Cow Hunt Vs General Tag

TX_Diver

Active Member
Messages
389
Hi All,

Been doing a lot of research over the past few weeks and keep going back and forth on what I want to apply for this year.

A little background first: I drew a Type 6 tag in unit Ninety Eight last year and hunted the first week in November outside of the wilderness area. There were 5 of us up there and I ended up being the only one who harvested an elk. We hiked all over the place, sat and glassed for hours, explored a lot of areas a friendly warden recommended, and found a decent amount of sign but never really got into the elk like we'd hoped to. This year I'd love to hunt an area that has a higher concentration of elk and also less restrictions on where I can and can't go (i.e. less wilderness and minimal private land) so my buddy and I are thinking of burning our preference points (2) and drawing a type 4 tag in what is otherwise a max points unit.

To make it a little more complicated, we would like to hunt the archery season. Neither of us has ever archery hunted before but everyone has a first archery hunt at some point and I figure we've got to start somewhere. I started spearfishing a few years ago and ever since then have been dying to pick up archery. If archery hunting is anything like spearfishing then I'm pretty sure I'm going to have a good time.

Anyways, I know we can draw a general tag (most likely at least based on past odds) but we are leaning towards hunting a cow in a premium unit that doesn't seem to get a lot of archery pressure vs having the any elk tag in a general unit (I know some general units aren't actually any elk but the one's I'd consider hunting are I believe). Both of us would love to have a chance at a bull but putting meat in the freezer is much more important to both of us as is having a fun hunt. I know that the odds of harvesting with archery equipment are much lower but I have to believe that hunting in a unit with 80% + success is going to give us more opportunities and teach us more than hunting a unit with 30%-40% success.

I'm fairly confident on what I want to do but keep going back and forth as I am having trouble finding much info on archery hunting cow elk. Do people generally even bother hunting cows with archery equipment? Is there anything I'm missing or is it just that since so few people hunt cows with a bow that there's not a lot of info out there? I'm concerned that with how little info I've found and my limited experience that I'm missing something most people consider obvious.

I don't need anyone's spots although any advice is always welcome but just looking to get some confirmation that my thinking isn't way out of line so any feedback would be appreciated.

Also, If anyone is willing to share information but wants information on the specific units I'm considering let me know and I can PM you more info. I'm pretty new on here still but have enjoyed reading the HACs and am willing to share what little knowledge I have about NM as well (Been in 51 a few times and worked in the SE corner of the state for awhile). Sometime I'll post up some fish pictures and videos a friend took of some diving trips in the general forum as a lot of people don't see stuff like that all the time.

Cheers,

TX_Diver
 
TX_Diver

I am not sure if this will help you, but some folks don't know that archers hunting with a Wyoming general elk license in a general license hunt area can take any elk. The following statement is from the Wyoming elk hunting regulations:

Archers with a general elk license may only hunt in those hunt areas open to general license hunting as specified in Section 2 and may take any elk.


ClearCreek
 
I did not know that actually either!

So even on a general tag in a bull only unit I could take a cow with archery equipment it looks like.

Thanks for the head's up!

With regards to points for a Type 4 tag maybe I'm missing something. If there are leftover tags in the PP drawing would they go to someone with that as a second choice before going to the random drawing?

Using unit thirty one as an example:

There were 9 tags in the PP drawing with 5 people drawing with 1 point (100% odds), and 8 people applying with 0 points (~20% odds). In the random draw there were another 3 tags with 11 applicants (~25% odds, unless the 5 applicants who already drew in the PP draw with 0 points were accounted for in the 11 applicants in the random draw?).

The way I see it the only way to guarantee a tag like that would be to use points.

Alternately for unit thirty two it looks like there were 6 tags in the PP draw with 4 first choice applicants (with 0 points) and 2 tags in the random draw with 0 first choice applicants. There were 5 second choice applicants though which by my math would give a ~50% chance of drawing in the random draw. Fairly high odds but not enough to guarantee a hunt this fall.

Am I missing something? I used to consider myself fairly knowledgeable about the WY app process but am definitely second guessing myself now! I'd never really got into the second choice apps and usually just entered the reduced price drawing as well. Really appreciate the help.
 
All choices considered first before a leftover moved to random.

Apply in PP draw for primo bull tag with type 4 second choice.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-23-16 AT 09:49AM (MST)[p]jm77---I'm not quite following you on that last post. If I understand you correctly, that's the way NM runs their draw by pulling a person from the computer and then trying to fill whichever of their 3 choices still have tags left before moving on to the next person. In Wyoming all first choice applicants for a tag are filled if there are enough tags before it goes to your second choice and then all of those are filled if there are enough tags left before they look at your third choice. Some of those numbers of people the OP mentioned when referencing the Random draw are the same ones who didn't draw in the PP draw because you get two chances at your first choice with the first one being in the PP Draw and then all that don't draw go into the Random Draw. Many people don't realize that you can still lose your PPs in that Random Draw because it doesn't look at PPs. I remember a guy on here several years ago putting in for a primo elk unit so he could save his PPs and draw his second choice. He ended up drawing the only tag in the Random Draw, lost his PPs, and ended up eating the tag because he couldn't go on the hunt as the dates were different from his second choice and his company wouldn't let him change his vacation time.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-23-16 AT 11:49AM (MST)[p]

PP draw is 1st choice only

Random draw:
all 1st choice apps looked at
then all 2nd choice apps
then all 3rd choice apps

/////

distribution of tags after LO draw:

9. Special Preference Point Drawing is conducted
Quota balance is held to be made available for the Regular Drawing
Quota is not rolled to the Special Random Drawing

10. Special Random Drawing is conducted
Quota balance is held to be made available for the Regular Drawing

Quota Available for Regular Drawing:

11. New Quota balance is calculated for each hunt area
Original 60% for Nonresident Regular Drawing
Plus quota balance from the Nonresident Special Preference Point Drawing
Plus quota balance from the Nonresident Special Random Drawing

12. Quota balance available for Nonresident Regular Drawing is split for Preference Point Drawing and Random Drawing
75% (Round UP) Regular Preference Point Drawing
25% (Round DOWN) Regular Random Drawing
 
Thanks WB! That's what I was trying to say, but your short post was probably easier to understand.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-23-16 AT 11:58AM (MST)[p]

I think JM is saying the same thing. They'll go thru Special 3rd choice before they drop to the Regular and get reallocated.

TX, for 2nd choice odds, just look at the random draw odds, special and regular. Take the quota and deduct the 1st choice apps and the remainder compared to the 2nd choice apps is your odds.
Remember, your 1st choice follows you from the PP draw to the random draw so you need to do as JM posted and have the type 4 cow tag as a 2nd choice to keep from burning your points.

WY-2014-2NDchoiceodds_zps359be4f9.jpg
 
>I agree WB! I think
>I just completely misinterpreted what
>jm77 was really saying.


I should have said "all choices considered separately first..." that is easier to understand
 

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