Just wondering
- Thread starter eelgrass
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Soj51hopeful
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Ya you mean back when there were a lot better animal numbers? They probably complained about all the little bucks they had to look at and pass the first hour of the hunt!
DeerMadness
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We didn't complain as the hunting was good. If we did it was something like I wounded him and he went into a bad place to drag him out.
Paul_Crawford
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Dave, you're a fine one to be talkin' about age. lol pc
Soj51hopeful
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Ok how about too much cold, good hunting weather?
2lumpy
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No question, the really old timers of the late 1800's/early 1900's, (the average Joes of that time) hated the rich man, ie: Teddy Roosevelt for "taking over" hunting, and making all those radical elitist regulations. Funny how the times have change our attitudes. Now the average Joe's see the super rich Roosevelt as the savior of hunting, and forget that it was the rich guys who saved hunting and the average Joes that were the ones doing the damage.
My personal camp fire evenings don't go back as far as pre-market hunting" but they go back to the subsistence hunters, that started hunting in the 1920's and 1930's, when they hunted for meat for their families and meat for work camps. My father was too busy punching cows and putting up hay to do much big game hunting when I was a youngster, so I first started big game hunting with a group of other old timers, who thought their Winchester 1894, long octagon barreled 30.30s were modern fire arms, and that's all they'd hunt with, even into the last 1950 and early 60's. Pretty sure none of them ever owned a rifle with a scope on it.
Their stores were about being hired by lumber companies to provide meat for the loggers, with .22 rifles. They killed every thing they saw, grouse, ducks, geese, deer, elk and moose. They claimed most of it was done with a .22. When hunting regulations came along they party hunted. They poached big game year round, in the 1930's, to feed their wife and kids. For them, poaching was as natural as it is as foreign and objectional to us, today.
They loved the life style, the camps, the cold, the snow, the tracking, the butchering and the meat preparation. They told stories about the stupid things they had done, the horse wrecks they had , the times they were lost, the times they got snow bound for a week and had to melt snow to drink. They laughed at each other's gut shots, and misses, and bragged about their long shots, or the birds heads they'd shot off with their 30.30s. Most of them never owned a pick-up, they hunted out of the trunk of an old car, and if they did own a pick-up, it was a old beater 2 wheeled drive with chains on bias ply tires, and 500 pounds of bagged sand in the back, for traction. Their tents were oily old canvas, with no floors, they broke up straw bails and threw a trap over the straw and put the tent over the trap. No such thing as a tent heater, never gave it a second thought. Condensation frost was an inch or two thick on the inside of those tents, every morning. Most used blankets for bedding, very few sleeping bags, and those that had them were old military bags for World War II, blankets worked better.
I miss those old timers, their stories and those old camps. This year I took three first time deer hunter grandson's for their first hunt; I left the fifth wheel at home, I told them we weren't going to stay at the cabin, we could have hunted from the house, but, so those kids could experience a little of the old time hunting camps, I took them to the farthest spot on the mountain as I could get to, we set up my wall tent, cut fire wood to last us for five days, and we hunted out of the tent camp, told stories about "our old times", fried meat over an open fire, cooked spuds and onions in the dutch oven, laughed about the misses, bragged about the kills and tried, more or less, to give them the kind of hunt that will give them some lasting memories of their own.
DC
My personal camp fire evenings don't go back as far as pre-market hunting" but they go back to the subsistence hunters, that started hunting in the 1920's and 1930's, when they hunted for meat for their families and meat for work camps. My father was too busy punching cows and putting up hay to do much big game hunting when I was a youngster, so I first started big game hunting with a group of other old timers, who thought their Winchester 1894, long octagon barreled 30.30s were modern fire arms, and that's all they'd hunt with, even into the last 1950 and early 60's. Pretty sure none of them ever owned a rifle with a scope on it.
Their stores were about being hired by lumber companies to provide meat for the loggers, with .22 rifles. They killed every thing they saw, grouse, ducks, geese, deer, elk and moose. They claimed most of it was done with a .22. When hunting regulations came along they party hunted. They poached big game year round, in the 1930's, to feed their wife and kids. For them, poaching was as natural as it is as foreign and objectional to us, today.
They loved the life style, the camps, the cold, the snow, the tracking, the butchering and the meat preparation. They told stories about the stupid things they had done, the horse wrecks they had , the times they were lost, the times they got snow bound for a week and had to melt snow to drink. They laughed at each other's gut shots, and misses, and bragged about their long shots, or the birds heads they'd shot off with their 30.30s. Most of them never owned a pick-up, they hunted out of the trunk of an old car, and if they did own a pick-up, it was a old beater 2 wheeled drive with chains on bias ply tires, and 500 pounds of bagged sand in the back, for traction. Their tents were oily old canvas, with no floors, they broke up straw bails and threw a trap over the straw and put the tent over the trap. No such thing as a tent heater, never gave it a second thought. Condensation frost was an inch or two thick on the inside of those tents, every morning. Most used blankets for bedding, very few sleeping bags, and those that had them were old military bags for World War II, blankets worked better.
I miss those old timers, their stories and those old camps. This year I took three first time deer hunter grandson's for their first hunt; I left the fifth wheel at home, I told them we weren't going to stay at the cabin, we could have hunted from the house, but, so those kids could experience a little of the old time hunting camps, I took them to the farthest spot on the mountain as I could get to, we set up my wall tent, cut fire wood to last us for five days, and we hunted out of the tent camp, told stories about "our old times", fried meat over an open fire, cooked spuds and onions in the dutch oven, laughed about the misses, bragged about the kills and tried, more or less, to give them the kind of hunt that will give them some lasting memories of their own.
DC
RELH
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2Lumpy, thanks for a great story and you did those kids a great service they will remember for the rest of their lives. I can hear them now 40-50 years in the future telling their grandkids about how tough they had it on their first hunt and that was the way real men did it.
RELH
RELH
elkassassin
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First Thing on Their Minds was Camp Meat!
After they had that Hangin they Got Serious about Huntin Big Bucks!
[font color="blue"]She put a Big F.U. in My Future,Ya She's got a
way with Words[/font]
After they had that Hangin they Got Serious about Huntin Big Bucks!
[font color="blue"]She put a Big F.U. in My Future,Ya She's got a
way with Words[/font]
littlebull209338
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I too am an "old-timer". I use to go hunting with my dad up Baxter Pass which is between Mack Colorado and Duchene UT. There was an old railroad track going up the pass and my dad use to gather the wood from the water tower and used it to build a barn. The book cliffs in those days did not have elk but there were some really big bucks. My dad started taking me when I was 8 years old because I had really good eyes. (Getting pretty blind now) He use to have my mom drive the old International pickup , stand in the bed, and when I spotted a buck he would shoot from the bed. I remember him shooting this monster buck that was just above the little two track road, it fell right behind the pickup. It must have been a monster cause I remember him having a really hard time loading it.
He use to tell me stories of trapping bears up on Douglas and Baxter passes. His dad died when he was 10 and he dropped out of school and went to work for the Youngs that ran their cows up there. He shot rabbits (only in the head) and sold them for 25 cents. He could shoot a deer while it was walking or trotting and hit it in the head every time.
He had an old oxtigon (sp) barreled 32 Special. His brother gave him a Remington 721 270 and he had a hard time figuring out the ammo. The shells my uncle gave him were , I believe, 90 grain Winchester Sliver tips. The first time he used it he shot 4 different deer, thinking he had missed because they didn't react like they were hit. After the fourth time he sent me and my brother to see if we could find any of them..... We did all four of them.
I ate so much venison when I was a kid my neck started to swell up every fall when puberty set in I got over rubbing my head on a tree when I found out I didn't have horns.
He use to tell me stories of trapping bears up on Douglas and Baxter passes. His dad died when he was 10 and he dropped out of school and went to work for the Youngs that ran their cows up there. He shot rabbits (only in the head) and sold them for 25 cents. He could shoot a deer while it was walking or trotting and hit it in the head every time.
He had an old oxtigon (sp) barreled 32 Special. His brother gave him a Remington 721 270 and he had a hard time figuring out the ammo. The shells my uncle gave him were , I believe, 90 grain Winchester Sliver tips. The first time he used it he shot 4 different deer, thinking he had missed because they didn't react like they were hit. After the fourth time he sent me and my brother to see if we could find any of them..... We did all four of them.
I ate so much venison when I was a kid my neck started to swell up every fall when puberty set in I got over rubbing my head on a tree when I found out I didn't have horns.
Zeke
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I've shared a few fires with some real old woodsmen. They were woodsmen and meat hunters and the thought of hunting just for the glory of antler inches was as foreign to them as it is commonplace for us today.
Sure, they killed some big deer with those old 25-20's but they killed the first anything they could.
Trophy hunting is a modern phenonemom even for most of the guys born after 1900. They didn't have the time or inclination to do what we do today.
The good old days are now with all the paid vacation and discretionary income. They had neither!
Zeke
Sure, they killed some big deer with those old 25-20's but they killed the first anything they could.
Trophy hunting is a modern phenonemom even for most of the guys born after 1900. They didn't have the time or inclination to do what we do today.
The good old days are now with all the paid vacation and discretionary income. They had neither!
Zeke
2lumpy
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Thanks RELH. I hope they grow into it and then embrace it, mostly that they learn how to apply the lessons learned on the mountain to everything else in their lives. And....I hope they grow up to fight and win in future battles, to retain their hunting/outdoors way of life, regardless of the changes that come about in the next 50 years. With all they'll be facing, it won't be easy. But......I suppose the previous "old times" said the same about guys who are now our age.
Happy Days in deer camp 2016.
littlebull209338 that's a funny analogy. I always figured it was the whiskey that was making me do that, never considered it might be the meat.
Zeke, I'd wager your grandkids have listened "all ears" to your camp tales!!!!!
DC
Happy Days in deer camp 2016.
littlebull209338 that's a funny analogy. I always figured it was the whiskey that was making me do that, never considered it might be the meat.
Zeke, I'd wager your grandkids have listened "all ears" to your camp tales!!!!!
DC
2lumpy
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Thank you DW. We have two older grandsons, that have almost overly "bought in" if that's possible, now these three are on their way, and one four year old that has already been included in a whole lot of hunting/fishing adventures. So far we're keep'en the fire in their belly burning hot.
I have to admit, I absolutely hate, hate, hate harvesting yearling deer but.......if you're going to develop a love for the lifestyle, they need to start early and shot what's available. Building a love for hunting is more important than the size of the deer/deer antlers, and if we're insistent on managing for maximum harvest, then these youngsters need to shot what's there (not that there isn't a mature buck or two somewhere on the unit, regardless of our yearling management objectives) and not go home frustrated. Hunting without success becomes pretty discouraging for young folks and I think they quickly loose interest, if their deer hunt only ends up being a hiking/camping trip. At least that's how I've always approached it. Their hunting goals will evolve, as they mature in the lifestyle.
DC
I have to admit, I absolutely hate, hate, hate harvesting yearling deer but.......if you're going to develop a love for the lifestyle, they need to start early and shot what's available. Building a love for hunting is more important than the size of the deer/deer antlers, and if we're insistent on managing for maximum harvest, then these youngsters need to shot what's there (not that there isn't a mature buck or two somewhere on the unit, regardless of our yearling management objectives) and not go home frustrated. Hunting without success becomes pretty discouraging for young folks and I think they quickly loose interest, if their deer hunt only ends up being a hiking/camping trip. At least that's how I've always approached it. Their hunting goals will evolve, as they mature in the lifestyle.
DC
eelgrass
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Well, this went in a little different direction than I thought it would, but I love it. Thanks guys!
I had a hunting friend who was a Vietnam war veteran. He never talked about it much, but when ever we would get around the campfire on the mountain he would tell war stories. It's like he felt safe talking about it then. I would never repeat some of the things he told.
I imagine some of the old timers who went through WWI and WWII or before, did the same.
I had a hunting friend who was a Vietnam war veteran. He never talked about it much, but when ever we would get around the campfire on the mountain he would tell war stories. It's like he felt safe talking about it then. I would never repeat some of the things he told.
I imagine some of the old timers who went through WWI and WWII or before, did the same.
2lumpy
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Sorry eel, my bad. I was looking forward to some old timer stories too. Should have left well enough alone.
My father in law was a WWII Vet, he told me horrific stories about retaking the island beaches in the Pacific. I still have a Japanese flag he cut down while under fire over running a command post, somewhere around New Caledonia. It's a special family treasure.
DC
My father in law was a WWII Vet, he told me horrific stories about retaking the island beaches in the Pacific. I still have a Japanese flag he cut down while under fire over running a command post, somewhere around New Caledonia. It's a special family treasure.
DC
eelgrass
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No, not at all DC. It's all related to hunting in the past and how the old timers viewed the world around them.
I'm sure they enjoyed the outings as much as we do today, but most of them did it with a cost/reward calculated into it. The economics had to work out, and coming home empty handed was to be avoided. Meat on the table was the primary objective, if not the only objective.
If you were a poor hunter and never brought any meat home you were probably forced to give it up all together. I think those people got together and invented golf.
I'm sure they enjoyed the outings as much as we do today, but most of them did it with a cost/reward calculated into it. The economics had to work out, and coming home empty handed was to be avoided. Meat on the table was the primary objective, if not the only objective.
If you were a poor hunter and never brought any meat home you were probably forced to give it up all together. I think those people got together and invented golf.
elkassassin
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I Remember My Dad Saying:
If We Just would of had a 4X4 Pick-Up back Then!
I Think What He Was Trying to say was:
If Just 'He' would'of had a 4X4 Back then!
I'd go Back to a 2 Wheel Drive Truck in a HeartBeat if I could Hunt the Banner Days/50's/60's of the Mule Deer!
Can You Imagine Not Having 25 F'N Wheelers on every Ridge/Nook & Cranny & Big Bucks to be Hunted?
I Want a "Go Back In Time Machine"!
[font color="blue"]She put a Big F.U. in My Future,Ya She's got a
way with Words[/font]
If We Just would of had a 4X4 Pick-Up back Then!
I Think What He Was Trying to say was:
If Just 'He' would'of had a 4X4 Back then!
I'd go Back to a 2 Wheel Drive Truck in a HeartBeat if I could Hunt the Banner Days/50's/60's of the Mule Deer!
Can You Imagine Not Having 25 F'N Wheelers on every Ridge/Nook & Cranny & Big Bucks to be Hunted?
I Want a "Go Back In Time Machine"!
[font color="blue"]She put a Big F.U. in My Future,Ya She's got a
way with Words[/font]
littlebull209338
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Yes, you younger hunters have a much different experience than those of us who were blessed to hunt in the 50,60s and early 70s. We use to sort through the bucks and very seldom took any younger animals except elk. Spikes were legal and we all tried to get one as they are the very best eating. A cow permit was much sought after and were few and far between. The elk numbers and range where they were found were really small compared to now. The bull to cow ratio was horrible especially after hunting season. I gave up hunting public ground for the same reasons some of you mention. We use to have West Divide Creek, High Tower Mountain and Buzzard Creek pretty much to ourselves. You could get permits for three deer and they were everywhere. In the winter you could only drive about 45 MPH between Rifle and Craig because of the hundreds of deer crossing the road.
Preditor control was a big item. My dad had a good friend who was a government trapper and he use to stop by with a lion about every week.
When I mentioned my dad shooting from the pickup I did it with some remorse. In those days things were so much different that no one thought anything about it. I am with most of you when you talk about obeying the law. We got where we are because the politics of game management are out of step with reality.
Preditor control was a big item. My dad had a good friend who was a government trapper and he use to stop by with a lion about every week.
When I mentioned my dad shooting from the pickup I did it with some remorse. In those days things were so much different that no one thought anything about it. I am with most of you when you talk about obeying the law. We got where we are because the politics of game management are out of step with reality.
2lumpy
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eel, for sure......you've missed your calling in life. You should have been a "Johnny Carson" sidekick. Your mind is about as lively as anybody I've ever encountered.
Here's the thing though, and I know this from sad experience. If you're a lousy hunter/meat provider, you're most generally a dang poor golfer too. It's hardly fair, God gives all the talents to some and the rest of us get stale bread and double bogies.
I think your right about the stories told by those old time hunters, especially about when they were younger and tougher. Those stories they loved to tell where about the times when they could and would get right after it. However, by the time I came along, they loved to tell these tails but they were pretty mellow and had acquired a taste for beef and chicken and the venison production wasn't near as important as it once was, it was all about the trip, the camp, the friends in camp, the stories of the past, the complaining about the modern world, and what "pann"y waists us younger guys were. Like you said, they loved to repeat how stupid and self serving the government was, how they resented the new regulations and "all of the constant damn changes they're mak'en, every time ya turn around"
Seems like our stories today are a little different but our complaints have not changed much. But......... I think their b1tching was more justified than ours, those old boys were hard as the back of your head, when they said, "life was rough" they meant "ROUGH". Too often today when we say things are rough, we mean the shower head at the motel is spraying a little water outside the curtain.
Sooooo true BC, then and now, all technological adoption into the lifestyle is about, "this will give me a leg up on the other guys". Hell, if there wasn't guys out there competing for your bull, you'd leave all the high priced high tech stuff at home and take out the old 30.30 and your 8 x 44 binos. And you have a lot more fun do'en it.
DC
Here's the thing though, and I know this from sad experience. If you're a lousy hunter/meat provider, you're most generally a dang poor golfer too. It's hardly fair, God gives all the talents to some and the rest of us get stale bread and double bogies.
I think your right about the stories told by those old time hunters, especially about when they were younger and tougher. Those stories they loved to tell where about the times when they could and would get right after it. However, by the time I came along, they loved to tell these tails but they were pretty mellow and had acquired a taste for beef and chicken and the venison production wasn't near as important as it once was, it was all about the trip, the camp, the friends in camp, the stories of the past, the complaining about the modern world, and what "pann"y waists us younger guys were. Like you said, they loved to repeat how stupid and self serving the government was, how they resented the new regulations and "all of the constant damn changes they're mak'en, every time ya turn around"
Seems like our stories today are a little different but our complaints have not changed much. But......... I think their b1tching was more justified than ours, those old boys were hard as the back of your head, when they said, "life was rough" they meant "ROUGH". Too often today when we say things are rough, we mean the shower head at the motel is spraying a little water outside the curtain.
Sooooo true BC, then and now, all technological adoption into the lifestyle is about, "this will give me a leg up on the other guys". Hell, if there wasn't guys out there competing for your bull, you'd leave all the high priced high tech stuff at home and take out the old 30.30 and your 8 x 44 binos. And you have a lot more fun do'en it.
DC
