It’s Maddening

[2lumpy]

Sportsmen have been actively pushing the State Wildlife bureaucracy to increase the population of declining mule deer populations since their numbers began to decline in the mid 1980’s.

Some sportsmen have taken their frustrations and requests for research to the highest levels of government, requesting the government fund research institutions at our State funded Research Universities.

Foolish catch phases, such as “bucks don’t have fawns”…… “we need to cull the old and barren does from the population”…….. “too many bucks in a herd, cause the does and fawns to starve…… But never any long term research projects at Biologloical/Zoological Life Science Departments at any Western States Universities, like there are in the Southern States, for Whitetail deer studies.

Until the last 6 or 8 years the bureaucracy has insisted there was nothing wrong, it was all “the sky is falling paranoia”, it was all “weather” related, either drought or snow packed winters, etc etc etc…….. but always beyond human control.

Bottomline was, the over all, 40 year decline has continued. Natural environmental changes have not solve the problem, as the Bureaucrats have insisted it would.

It’s interesting that this news article points out the current study has been funded by non-profits. No mention of State or Federal tax dollars being used. Now……… I’m not naive enough to think there hasn’t been some tax funds spent but the impetus here is the bureaucracy is not the driving force behind finding a solution to decline/struggling mule deer populations in the West.

Whether, the summer range habitat environment is the lynch pin to mule deer survival or not, or whether it’s even one of many key contributing factors remains to be seen, but it clearly points out there is a great deal we don’t know about mule deer management and the need for more and better government funding for a nation wide problem with our mule deer populations.

I hope the next generation of hunters and bureaucrats will finally get focused on getting mule deer research science developed at these research based Universities and give this natural resource the time and money it needs and deserves.

The missing link in Utah deer habitat: Saving forests without fire

Active management to improve deer habitat is a complex and little understood process.

www.ksl.com

 

[jims]

I agree 100% that summer browse and forage are important for producing fat reserves to endure extreme winters and drought conditions.

I strongly disagree that winter and early spring range health doesn’t play just as important role in healthy does producing healthy fawns.

Does are obviously stressed using fat reserves through the winter months, however, healthy forage in winter and spring is vital.

My take on it is that nutritious early spring forb and shrub growth is vital for maintaining healthy pregnant does that produce healthy fawns. Nutritious forbs and shrubs that first emerge in the spring and early summer play a vital role in successful pregnancy and healthy fetus and fawn development and recruitment.

Producing healthy fawns that endure extreme drought, winters, predators, disease, and everything else thrown at them is vital.

With that said, I really think it would be a mistake to just focus on one time of year and one habitat type and problem. All of these combined are equally important.

Obviously every region in Utah may be a little different from others. Each region likely has its strengths and weaknesses as well as different habitat types they use in winter vs summer.

Anything we can do to improve nutrition and other critical problems related to mule deer through the entire year is important.

I would likely point my finger at cheatgrass and wildfire for a fairly quick and easy solution in numerous areas across the western us. I can say this because I have witnessed the long-term benefits to browse that has supported healthy fawn recruitment in such a short period of time in our area.

It’s great to hear in the above link that there may be more fairly quick and easy solutions worth investigating. A combination of different solutions may produce even better results.

I share the excitement of others that have discovered solutions to the declining mule deer population problem across the Western US! It is so amazing to see success!

It is also exciting to see others (like 2lumpy) that haven’t given up hope and are pressing on to make a difference that will ultimately benefit muledeer.

 

[kickerbuck]

Eliminate vehicles, fences, predators including humans, and they should come back!

 

[eelgrass]

If Mule deer were worth money, we could hire someone like Elon Musk to bring the population up and give him free reign, and we'd have to shoo deer off our front porch to go outside.

There's just too many straws in the cup.

 

[2lumpy]

If Mule deer were worth money, we could hire someone like Elon Musk to bring the population up and give him free reign, and we'd have to shoo deer off our front porch to go outside.

There's just too many straws in the cup.

It sucks.

 

[Stillwater165]

It sucks.

Your dang right it does ! I enjoy watching them just as much if not more than I do hunting them, and they are definitely in trouble. Nothing eles compares to them, they are a proud noble creature !

 

[2lumpy]

Your dang right it does ! I enjoy watching them just as much if not more than I do hunting them, and they are definitely in trouble. Nothing eles compares to them, they are a proud noble creature !

Love those muley’s but watching those twitchy WT is dang cool too. I envy you guys that have both.

 

[elkassassin]

So Lumpy?

You Sayin That: DOUBLE THEM TAGS!

JUST DOUBLE THEM F'N TAGS!

Ain't Gonna Fix The DRATville Deer Herd?

Love those muley’s but watching those twitchy WT is dang cool too. I envy you guys that have both.

 

[elkassassin]

Should We Keep Hunting Them To Death & See If It Fixes The Problems?

 

[2lumpy]

Should We Keep Hunting Them To Death & See If It Fixes The Problems?

Not if I had my way…….. but, not counting on that BC.

 

[eelgrass]

I thought this sounds interesting. I've never hit a deer myself, but it might save a few homeless people wandering around the roads at night.

Teens invent remarkable device while searching for way to save local wildlife: 'Something that anyone and everyone can put on their cars'

"That’s our ultimate goal."

www.yahoo.com

 

[2lumpy]

Maybe it should be built into every vehicle…… at the factory.

 

[HORNhunter7]

Maybe it should be built into every vehicle…… at the factory.

Trouble is it could shorten the proposed mandatory EV's mileage per "plug in" another 25 miles!

 

[jims]

I spend a great deal of time monitoring cheatgrass and it's impacts on native vegetation and wildlife. Today I was monitoring native plants on one of our properties where we sprayed approximately 1,000 acres of cheatgrass approximately 3 years ago.

I was exciting to run into this group of 26+ muley bucks today! What is revealing is that this property is only a few nautical miles from the epicenter of where CWD was first detected in Colorado over 40 years ago. Our mule deer population and buck numbers are amazing even in the midst of where CWD prions have existed in soils for over 4 decades! There are numerous mature bucks living long, healthy lives in our area....especially now that we have healthy habitat void of cheatgrass.

It doesn't end there. I've seen an amazing number of twin fawns the past couple years since we controlled the cheatgrass. We've had 2 incredible spring moisture years in a row. Even though we've hardly gotten a drop of precipitation in the past month, does and fawns are super healthy.

I've shared fawn photos in other posts. Many of our fawns are as large as most yearlings in cheatgrass infested areas the first winter after birth. I contribute this to the excellent browse growth and healthy does from high quality nutrition after cheatgrass is controlled.

The mule deer in our area are reaping the benefits from long term cheatgrass control! There is no doubt in my mind that there is hope for dwindling Western states suffering from ailing mule deer populations......especially in areas where cheatgrass negatively impacts native remnant species.

I thought it would be exciting to share a bright story! Anyone traveling through Colorado that would like to take a closer look at our success story be sure to look me up! I would be glad to take you on a personal tour.

 

[2lumpy]

I spend a great deal of time monitoring cheatgrass and it's impacts on native vegetation and wildlife. Today I was monitoring native plants on one of our properties where we sprayed approximately 1,000 acres of cheatgrass approximately 3 years ago.

I was exciting to run into this group of 26+ muley bucks today! What is revealing is that this property is only a few nautical miles from the epicenter of where CWD was first detected in Colorado over 40 years ago. Our mule deer population and buck numbers are amazing even in the midst of where CWD prions have existed in soils for over 4 decades! There are numerous mature bucks living long, healthy lives in our area....especially now that we have healthy habitat void of cheatgrass.

View attachment 153772

It doesn't end there. I've seen an amazing number of twin fawns the past couple years since we controlled the cheatgrass. We've had 2 incredible spring moisture years in a row even though this past month we've hardly gotten a drop of precipitation.

I've shared fawn photos in other posts. Many of our fawns are as large as most yearlings in cheatgrass infested areas the first winter after birth. I contribute this to the excellent browse growth and healthy does from high quality nutrition after cheatgrass is controlled.

The mule deer in our area are reaping the benefits from long term cheatgrass control! There is no doubt in my mind that there is hope for dwindling Western states suffering from ailing mule deer populations......especially in areas where cheatgrass negatively impacts native remnant species.

I thought it would be exciting to share a bright story! Anyone traveling through Colorado that would like to take a closer look at our success story be sure to look me up!

View attachment 153773

Kind of goes along with the study from
Doc Larsen in my orginal post, in that, these bucks, does and fawns are in their summer range, putting on fat, that will carry them through the winder in good health. Summer range is not always at 9,000 feet, for some families of deer. Fat is far, regardless of where it comes from, or in many cases, it does not come from.

Reinforces the theory that where summer range is lacking nutrients, mule deer suffer, both in the summer and the winter.

 

[Dr H.]

I spend a great deal of time monitoring cheatgrass and it's impacts on native vegetation and wildlife. Today I was monitoring native plants on one of our properties where we sprayed approximately 1,000 acres of cheatgrass approximately 3 years ago.

I was exciting to run into this group of 26+ muley bucks today! What is revealing is that this property is only a few nautical miles from the epicenter of where CWD was first detected in Colorado over 40 years ago. Our mule deer population and buck numbers are amazing even in the midst of where CWD prions have existed in soils for over 4 decades! There are numerous mature bucks living long, healthy lives in our area....especially now that we have healthy habitat void of cheatgrass.

View attachment 153772

It doesn't end there. I've seen an amazing number of twin fawns the past couple years since we controlled the cheatgrass. We've had 2 incredible spring moisture years in a row. Even though we've hardly gotten a drop of precipitation in the past month, does and fawns are super healthy.

I've shared fawn photos in other posts. Many of our fawns are as large as most yearlings in cheatgrass infested areas the first winter after birth. I contribute this to the excellent browse growth and healthy does from high quality nutrition after cheatgrass is controlled.

The mule deer in our area are reaping the benefits from long term cheatgrass control! There is no doubt in my mind that there is hope for dwindling Western states suffering from ailing mule deer populations......especially in areas where cheatgrass negatively impacts native remnant species.

I thought it would be exciting to share a bright story! Anyone traveling through Colorado that would like to take a closer look at our success story be sure to look me up! I would be glad to take you on a personal tour.

View attachment 153773

Man what a sweet pic! That heard is awesome

 

[Servehim]

Wow, there is hope for the future of our mule deer. Thanks for the pics and your dedication sir.

 

[DeerHunter53]

I spend a great deal of time monitoring cheatgrass and it's impacts on native vegetation and wildlife. Today I was monitoring native plants on one of our properties where we sprayed approximately 1,000 acres of cheatgrass approximately 3 years ago.

I was exciting to run into this group of 26+ muley bucks today! What is revealing is that this property is only a few nautical miles from the epicenter of where CWD was first detected in Colorado over 40 years ago. Our mule deer population and buck numbers are amazing even in the midst of where CWD prions have existed in soils for over 4 decades! There are numerous mature bucks living long, healthy lives in our area....especially now that we have healthy habitat void of cheatgrass.

View attachment 153772

It doesn't end there. I've seen an amazing number of twin fawns the past couple years since we controlled the cheatgrass. We've had 2 incredible spring moisture years in a row. Even though we've hardly gotten a drop of precipitation in the past month, does and fawns are super healthy.

I've shared fawn photos in other posts. Many of our fawns are as large as most yearlings in cheatgrass infested areas the first winter after birth. I contribute this to the excellent browse growth and healthy does from high quality nutrition after cheatgrass is controlled.

The mule deer in our area are reaping the benefits from long term cheatgrass control! There is no doubt in my mind that there is hope for dwindling Western states suffering from ailing mule deer populations......especially in areas where cheatgrass negatively impacts native remnant species.

I thought it would be exciting to share a bright story! Anyone traveling through Colorado that would like to take a closer look at our success story be sure to look me up! I would be glad to take you on a personal tour.

View attachment 153773

Is this where they are going to re-transplant the wolves that are preying on livestock.. I wouldn't put it past them to do exactly that

 

[jims]

Deerhunter53, My guess is that the CPW wouldn't introduce wolves in the area where I took photos of the 26 muley bucks. There are too many homes and human activity in that particular area. There are bear, mtn lions, coyotes, and bobcats on the property with the 26 bucks though.

As a side-note, I'm pretty sure I heard a wolf howling in a spot I was mtn goat scouting a couple days ago. Wolves sound totally different than coyotes and it was in a spot miles from any roads or trails. It was in a spot with a lot of marmots, ground squirrels, chipmunks squirrels, snowshoe rabbits, and pica.

I'm not really a wolf advocate, but would say it is bittersweet having wolves introduced into Colo. I'd say most people will never see or hear a wolf in the wild in their lifetime that support this. The population of species that are currently fairly common and people really enjoy seeing on a regular basis (like moose) will likely take a big beating as wolve populations increase....pretty sad!

Is it really worth the destruction wolves do to livestock and wildlife numbers? Is it worth putting more pressure on the already ailing mule deer population in Colorado? I really don't think so.

 

[southernutahhunter]

2lumpy you are so right. I have been to almost every rac meeting during these past 40 years stating my concern over declining mule deer.
I have been laughed at, told to get out of my truck and hunt harder. Look in far reaching hard places. And so on and so on. Just this last rac meeting I was told 20 bucks per 100 does on the Beaver and the herd is looking great. I asked“why then do I not see them in all the areas I used to and the ones I do see are far less”. Such as Fields around Butch Cassidy near circleville. I was told not sure why they don’t winter there anymore. I asked why are there not any deer left at the mouth of circleville canyon. Again I was told they must not winter there anymore. I asked why so few deer in Red cedar spring, Fremont, Bear valley, etc. again I got a shrugged should and told they must have changed winter patters. You get the point. I have been the guy who knows the Beaver like the back of my hand. There is no new winter,spring,summer and fall deer migration area. There is just no deer and it has happened over a 40 year period. I am so tired of the excuses. Over 40 years I have never heard them say you are right and we need to find out why. The weather excuse is always there go to. So here we are 2024 and still claiming there are 20 bucks per 100 does and deer herd in southern Utah looks great.
I know I am preaching to the choir but somehow they have been able to feed everyone this crap for 40 years

 

[Dr H.]

Y'all heading to southern Utah without me? Well, well, I would recommend a sticky mobile tracker on the inside of a gas cap on the prominent deer outfitters down here. At least you will get to see the bigger one's.

 

[2lumpy]

Pretty sad southernutahhunter……… pretty dang sad. The ones that should have been held accountable are mostly dead and gone now.

They hired on to management our mule deer, they asked for the job. They took their salaries and their State Retirements, cursed you for challenging their policies, regulations and misguided management practices and told their grandchildren, “if a sportsmen’s mouth is moving, he’s lying.”

They left a great legacy.

It remains to be seen if the current bureaucrats will get serious about it or allow it continue to decline.

 

[southernutahhunter]

I am afraid it could be too late to ever recover from at this point. I just see this younger generation trying to say the same things. But they are having to try and convince the sportsmen with a lot less deer.