Is 50 yds too far?

B

BigPig

Very Active Member
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I know, a touchy subject. Is a 50yd shot at a mule deer too far? I am confident of my ability to make the shot. I can do it on a target all day. I'm just worried about the deer jumping. I know deer can jump string regardless of how fast your bow shoots, and I shoot a Switchback so it's fairly quick. So consider this hypothetical situation...

You have snuck in on a buck, ran out of cover, and cannot get any closer than 50 yards. You are completey confident at that range. The buck is totally calm, unaware of your presence, and is looking the other direction. The deer is broadside. There is no wind and no brush in the way. You shoot a very quiet bow and are in full camo.

Do you shoot? Or is 50 too far to risk the deer jumping the string? Do you try and close the distance another 10 or so yards and risk spooking the deer?

Just curious here as I've never been in this situation but could easily see it happening on this year's hunt. No flames please. I'm not sure what I would do.
 
I've never been in that situation either, but given your hypothetical situation, I'd try and sneak in another 10 yards, then shoot. If there is absolutley no way you can get any closer, given the deers present attitude and position(calm and looking the other way), I'd take the 50 yard shot only if you are confident at that range and have practiced it often.
By the way, we shoot the same bow.........so let'er rip! :)

Lien2
 
It all depends on how fast your bow is shooting. If it's shooting lets say 300 fps, then 50 yards comes out to 150 ft. That's roughly half a second to go 50 yards. I'd take the shot if I was confident in my bow on a target.



-Cass
 
If it were me in that exact situation...fling it. There is always a possibility of any shot going wrong, but if you have those circumstances where the buck has no idea you exist, you don't feel comfortable trying to stock any closer, the buck is looking the other direction so you have an opportunity at drawing on him, and you are confident in your ability to make a 50 yard shot, do it. If that arrow is coming off your rest before he even knows you exist, let 'er fly. Like I said, anything can happen on any shot, but if you are confident in your 50 yard ability and you have those circumstances going, I'd shoot. you'll probably get some disagreeing with me but that is just my opinion. 50 yards is not too far for a muley and with those circumstances, I'd do it.

Jaxon
 
Take IT!

As long as you have truly practiced those shots and feel comfortable taking the shot. I have taken two mulies over 50 yards: 1. A small buck taken the last day broadside looking right at me at 51 yards. Result -- pass through the heart, dead within 45 seconds. Delicious! 2. A nice 5x4 taken @ 54 yards. He was looking the other way and distracted. Result -- pass through the vitals, dead within a few minutes. Also Delicious and he looks good on the wall in velvet.

Be concerned about how he is standing -- I would not take a 50 yard shot whenhe is facing me, but I wouldn't hesitate to take a 50 yard shot broadside!

By the way, I was using a Matthews MQ1, 62 lb draw weight. You should have no problem with that smoker your shooting!
 
personaly speeking
i prefer the longer shot.
they don't string jump.
i shoot all the time at 60 yards,
(targets)
though i did shoot a nice 10 point (iowa count)whitetail once at 65=- yds after he jumped /ducked my shot at 15 yds.
couldn't beleave he could have dropped to the ground any closer. then he pranced out 65 yards or so turned and looked back. stomped his feet a couple times then presented me with a perfict side shot, i took it. he wheeled and went over the hill. I waited, smoked a cig, and went to retreve him
couldnt believe i got a pass thru at that range either.
I shoot beman carbins W/ 6" fletching I put on.
so for me a 50 yard shot is a taker ever time if he's standing right.
 
RE: Take IT!

I've always thought about that exact situation & what I would do until 2 yrs ago an almost identical situation occured. 50 yds, totally broadside & not a care in the world. At the time I was shooting a Hoyt Razortech, ranged him at 48 yds. & even had a camera man behind me! Neadless to say I have watched the video over & over again & between the time I squeezed the shot off & when the arrow hit the double-lung vitals the deer never moved.
The only reason why I took the shot was because the situation was perfect, I practiced w/my 50 yrd pin over & over again & was 100% confident in my ability.
So, if you faced the exact situation you described above & you were confident in the shot I say let er fly! Just remember, when you shoot at a live animal at that distance it is so hard to not search for your arrow, remind yourself to keep that bow arm up & follow thru the shot.
 
RE: Take IT!

Thanks fellas. Given the exact circumstances I think I would fire away too. But not on an alert deer.
 
RE: Take IT!

I too have taken bucks from 2 to 78 yrds and the ones at 2 are much funner :)
 
RE: Take IT!

I had that same thing happen to me 2 years ago on a small mule deer buck. I judged him at 50 yards, set the pin on his heart and said to myself if anything is wrong don't let it go. The wind was zero, I was calm, the buck was calm, everything looked good so I let it go. Went through the heart, clean pass thru and even got to see the arrow skip and go airborne again on the other side of him (very cool) He made it 100 yards and that was only because he was rolling the last 50 yards or so. Gary
 
Shot my deer 65yds away one week before xmas. He was moving to my left and I had the new Blackknight dually and that arrow went so fast I sent the 100 gr thunderhead 40 yrds beyond the buck. If you have confidence in your shooting ability take the shot. The indians did and they harvested plenty of dear using there secret stock approach methods.
 
"The indians did and they harvested plenty of dear using there secret stock approach methods."
Yes and they also missed and wounded many more than they harvested. They also ran more off of cliffs than they shot. Does that mean what they did is acceptable today?

Each of our ethics will determine if we take this shot, most of us won't decide unless the opportunity presents itself. However, I started bowhunting when equipment dictated it as a close range hunting method, no sights - no releases - slow bows. Today I still bowhunt because it is a close range method, Although equipment has improved the object is stil to get close not take a long range archery shot (IMO no long range shot is conducive to bowhunting, regardless of how fast your bow shoots it is at best 1/2 the speed of sound. It has been proven that a humans eyesight is only distinctive to about 12 feet (think of your optometrist eyechart). At further distances a human is less likely to notice obstacles or pick a defined spot. So there is much more than the condition of the animal that effects a shot. As for me I'm a little older and although I used to shoot for a bow company on their 3-D staff, I know my eyes no longer allow me the accuracy I need to be competitive or being taking longer shots at live animals. Again look at our own limitations not just the animals current situation. Even a relaxed deer will take a step now and then turning a seemingly good shot into a long tracking job.
I started bowhunting because I enjoyed getting close. I will continue to take close range shots it seems to have worked on over 75 animals so far while I have had a handful of misses and a couple of wounded animals, I am proud to say I am over 90 percent when it comes to lethal shots on animals. I attribute this success to improving my hunting skills, not my shooting skills.

NO SHOT HERE!
 
Well said. I think most bowhunters are not prepared to take a 50 yard shot even though they might practice it once in a blue moon and 90% of the shots at 50 yards or more will be wounding animals. But hey who cares right????? It's only all sportsman that will take the heat for people that wound stuff 50 Yards and beyond. I think anytime we give antis an opportunity to use this kind of stuff against us, they will. Just make sure no one is watching with a video camera when you let one go at 50 or more yards when you wound one. To me, it's like saying...."Is 450 yards too far when hunting antelope with a 30 mile an hour crosswind?" I don't doubt that a lot of you are THAT good with a bow but will you cut your tag out and end your season when you hit one and it gets away? I just tried shooting at 50 yards with a new Mathews and I think it's a really bad idea. Ethics?
 
Man I wish I was around to see them run em off the cliff!!! And to tally there misses versus kills. I love those insinuations without justification. If you wound an animal most of us know to track em down one way or another. Just because ethics sets some of you to 40 or less yards doesnt mean the rest of us dont have any. I dont care If you shoot for a 3d team, archery shop or if someone is just plain hunting. If they have the skills to do it then they should try and harvest the animal. Some people wait a long time for the hunt season. Trying to justify ethics...its too much to bare when its the sport overall and the opportunity is there. Just as Big pig is explaining if he was presented with the situation. The only big proplem that I see is leaving your damn coors light cans in the fire pit when you are done hunting. That is unethical....!!!
 
Completely agree with Blackknight!!!

Last year I shot at a buck at 55 yds no wind, stopped him from chasing a doe with a grunt. He looked right at me and I took the shot. Unfortunately I wasn't looking at the twig hanging off the tree 5 yds in front of me and my arrow deflected and hit the ground under the deers feet. I was bummed! But that buck didn't move until the arrow was under his feet and if it weren't for that twig he would've been MINE.

Take the shot. This is the west. How many times in your life are you gonna have the perfect 30 yd shot???
 
First of all whats ethical to you may be totally unethical to myself and others, this goes both ways. For those who think that this is about ethics is missing the WHOLE BIG picture here. What it is about is responsibility, or lack of it in the case of those who feel that they can control that animal (deer) while their arrow is on its way to do its job. I don't care how much you practice that target, WILL NEVER MOVE! The animal may be totally unware of the fact that you are there, and at the instant you release your arrow it decides that the clump of browse one step away is better than the one it is muching on. Well that one step just turned a slam dunk shot into a nightmare for tracking. It doesn't matter how fast your bow shoots the above senario happens at just 40 yards.
If you were driving down the road and seen a deer get hit by another car and it was flopping around by the side of the road for most folks the ethical thing would be to put it out, it would also be an irresponsible thing to do in a lot of places because it against the law. Ethics are a great thing to guide you in the things that you do, but no law inforcement angency ever made new rules and laws for poor ethics, they made them because of irresponsible actions committed by people who justified them because they thought it was ethical.
Good hunting this season, and remember one responsible action by a bowhunter will go a lot further to promote the opportunity than a whole truck load of assumed "good ethics".
Tim
 
I agree it is the variables that make or break most all hunts.
The farther distance that you are trying to shoot, the more variables come into play and the odds of making a crippling shot increase.
I'll be the first to say that practice really helps, but the variables ( wind, an animal's reaction, unseen brush or obstacles) all can play into the equation.
The closer they are, the better shot I am.
HH
 
My experience is that deer are much more likely to jump the string at 20 yards than they are at 50 yards. I've seen this, and experienced it a number of times during my hunting career. So, being the devil's advocate (which I do so well) I'd say that it's possibly more likely, or at least just as likely that the animal will jump the string at 20 yards as it is that he will step out of the way at 50. Which is worse? I guess that's up to each of us to decide.
Personally I beleive that you will have many more opportunities and ultimately take more animals if you increase your effective shooting range with a rigorous practice routine, and then take the first shot you get that you KNOW you can make. Be it 60 yards or 20 yards. No sense in risking a missed opportunity trying to get to 20 yards when you KNOW you can smoke him at 40.

The trick is being honest about your shooting ability and sticking to your limits. If the animal moves or not is totally out of your control. Forget it and work on the things you can control.
 
utahheadgear,
I know that there are some people out there that will never get it and since they can hit a plate or whatever at xxx yards they can responsibly shoot animals at xxx yards. Well here is something that you can control. At yardages under 40 yards if an animal takes a step at the same time you release your arrow it can still turn out to be a quick, clean, humane shot. Outside of 40 yards and it turns into a better chance of a lost animal. So now can you control the situation to the point that if it is a lost animal it will never be found and become another blackeye that bowhunting dosen't need, because some IRRESPONSIBLE BASTAR* can control a non moving target so he thinks he can control a animal that can move? It is far better to have an animal jump a string and have a clean miss, than it is to have one that is shot in the abdomin and die and be lost because there was little or no blood trail. If you want to shoot far sell your bow, buy a gun!
Tim
 
utahheadgear:

"just as likely that the animal will jump the string at 20 yards as it is the he will step out of the way at 50."

Really????????

Thought of the day: Archery is seeing how far away you can get from your target and still hit it. Bowhunting is seeing how close you can get to your target before you hit it. :)

BOHNTR )))---------->
 
Personally, I think 30 yards is a long shot in bowhunting. If I cant get within 30 yards of my deer I wont take the shot. You have to remember the farther away the animal is the slower your arrow is going to impact them and the greater chance you have of making them suffer. It all comes down to respect. If you need to fill that tag so bad then you will attempt that long shot, but if you truly love to hunt and respect that animal to the fullest you will try to sneak up on him that ten or twenty extra yards. 78 yards come on... What are you thinking...
 
Fireball,

A deer that jumps the string at 20-30 yards does not always result in a clean miss. I've personally hit and lost two animals at under 30 yards that jumped the string resulting in very high hits that seemed to be above the lungs and below the spine (I say it seemed that way because I don't know for sure and never will because I didn't recover the animal). On both hits there was zero blood trail and the animals seemed almost unhurt, never bedded, and ended up who knows where. I beleive they recovered fully, but that's another topic.
On the other hand I have never had an animal take a step and cause a poor hit at any distance including shots taken out to 60 yards and beyond. Could it happen? You bet it could, and probably will if I hunt long enough. But it won't result in any worse of a hit, or any more of a wounded animal than one that jumps my string when I take a "perfect" 20 yard shot.

Like I said, I can't control what the animal will do at any distance, but I do not beleive that the chances of him doing something really increase at 50 yards as opposed to 20 or 30.
You tell me the difference between an animal that jumps the string at 20 yards resulting in a hit that is too high, and one that takes a step at 50 yards resulting in a gut shot? And by the way they will jump the string more often at 20 than they will step forward at 50. (Incidentally, I've recovered every animal that I have ever gut shot, and zero of the animals that I've hit too high. Again, that's another topic.)

Don't get me wrong boys, I want that 20 yard shot just as bad as the next guy. It's the hypothetical "chip shot", that we all want to have, and in most cases results in a very unhappy, very dead critter. But when they do jump the string that "chip shot" can go bad in a hurry. Just as bad as the 50 yard shot when they take a step.

You are all big boys and can decide for yourselves what to do. If you want to limit yourself to 20 yards shots, be my guest. Your probably a better man for it, but I am going to increase my shot opportunities by increasing my effective shooting range through rigorous practice, and by shooting the best available equipment, and I do not for a second beleive that my wound rate will be any higher than the guy that limits his shots to 20 yards as long as I stay within MY personal limits. My overall success rate will be higher.

As I said before, not everyone can make an accurate 50 yard shot and it is up to each of us to be HONEST with ourselves about our personal effective range and stick to it no matter what. Be it 20 yards, or 70.

I've made the mistake of shooting past my effective range and the results were not good. I'll not make that mistake again.
 
"You tell me the difference between an animal that jumps the string at 20 yards resulting in a hit that is too high, and one that takes a step at 50 yards resulting in a gut shot? And by the way they will jump the string more often at 20 than they will step forward at 50. (Incidentally, I've recovered every animal that I have ever gut shot, and zero of the animals that I've hit too high. Again, that's another topic.)"

ALL GUT SHOT ANIMALS DIE! That is the difference. I am glad your skills are honed enough to find gut shot animals, but my experience says many gut shot animals go unfound.

As a bowhunter education instructor I volunteer my services to help others track wounded animals. Over the years I helped many
folks in our area. Common thread on hard tracking jobs, long shots. Very few times have I been called onto help and when asking the shooter how far was the animal have I been told under 30 yards. Almost everytime the answer goes something like this:
Me; How far was the shot?
Hunter; Well I shot him for (40 plus yards) but I didn't hit where I was aiming.
Me; What happened?
Hunter; I don't know

My thoughts; I know you shot too far!


Well said Bohuntr, I hope you don't mind if I quote you. That may be the best description of the difference between bowhunters and archers I have ever heard. No wonder you are called "Bohuntr" and we see many of the fine animals you have taken posted here. The 90/10 rule truly applies, maybe that is because in todays world with the technology available only ten percent are commiitted to be bowhunters while ninety percent are content to be archers.

For those folks going to the field this fall:

Bowhunters keep the wind in your favour and good luck.

Archers hopefully something will happen to help you understand that the "Archery" season is and was designed to be close range and a "Bowhunting" season, regardless of what technology let's you feel good about.


Proud to be a bowhunter!!!

Travis Sparks
 
Of course we want to get as close as possible, thats the thrill but if I can't get any closer due to terrain, wind or any other reason I'm gonna take a 50 yd shot. I know with my abilities I'm gonna hit the vitals at 50 yds 90% of the time. If someone doesn't feel comfortable with a 50 yard shot thats fine but it does not make my shot from 50 unethical. I shoot at an outdoor range outside of Phoenix that has some nasty wind currents, crosswinds, tailwinds and headwinds all within 20 min. I have learned to shoot my bow in windy conditions and I know what my arrow is gonna do in just about any wind condition. As far as the animal taking a step, whats the differance between an animal taking a step at 20 yds and an animal taking on at 50? They don't take bigger steps when they're farther away! I can shoot as well at 50 yds as some hunters I've seen shoot at 20 so why wouldn't I take the shot??? I would take a 20 yd shot over a 50 yd shot any day of the week but if it means going home empty handed I'm taking the long shot. Call it what you want but I won't be eating a tag sandwich this winter!!!
 
"The 90/10 rule truly applies, maybe that is because in todays world with the technology available only ten percent are commiitted to be bowhunters while ninety percent are content to be archers."

Are you saying that because I'll take a 50 yd shot I'm not a "Bowhunter". Pretty arogant statement there pal! I promise you I'm committed to be the best possible hunter, bowhunter and sportsman I can be. If you want to talk about the "10" percent why don't you talk about guys that litter campsites and mess up our public lands by taking their 4 wheelers off roads. I don't mean to get upset, we're all on the same team, it just seems like there is a division being caused here between fellow hunters. I know you that are opposed to long shots will not change your oppinion on the subject, thats fine, but don't start talking about who's commited and whos not. I promise you that the guys here that take the time to be a part of important discussions like this on MM are truly commited to our sport and even though they have a different opinion than you does not make them less than you!

Good luck on the upcoming season

Donnie
 
MulePacker,

A poor hit is a poor hit is a poor hit. You can't tell me that a high hit and a lost animal is okay, but a gut shot lost animal isn't. That's ridiculous. Any wounded animal that is not recovered is just as bad as the next. The old "I didn't get him, but I'm sure he'll be okay" line doesn't fly and that is essentially what you just said.

You obviously can't deny that when hunting, certain things are out of your control, like string jumping. If you can't accept that fact then you shouldn't be hunting at all.

My question is this: Of those guys you helped with their long tracking jobs because of poor hits on long shots how many of those hits were actually caused by the animal moving? My guess is almost none. More likely they were caused by a hunter that took a shot that was outside of his effective shooting range.
My point is that poor hits are caused by hunters shooting outside their effective range, not by the animal reacting to the shot and that is why I am constantly working to increase my effective range, and also why I won't shoot past whatever that distance happens to be at the time.

I don't beleive that I need to allow your effective shooting range to dictate mine.

Archery and bowhunting go hand in hand. Bowhunting wouldn't exsist without archery and if more bowhunters were also archers there would be alot less wounded deer each season.

I'm an archer, and it makes me a better bowhunter!!
 
If you practice at fifty yards and get good at it .Take the shot you bought the bow .You bought the arrows you bought the tag. You are responsable for your self. And you anser to that little voise in your head.I practice up to 60 and 70 yards. And have arrowed my AZ mule deer at 68yards last year. and my AZ cous white tail at 53 yards right between the eyes the year before. Its all about what you feel is in your meens. wen in doubt dont shoot.
 
"and my AZ cous white tail at 53 yards right between the eyes the year before."

Enough said! :)

BOHNTR )))---------->
 
Like I said eariler some ___________ will never get it, and its just pure foolishness to try and talk to them. One of the reasons that bowhunting is and always will be under the perverbally microscope.

A Bowhunter first,
Tim Roberts
 
I will bring the picture home tomorrow and post it for you. And what do you meen some people will never learn. who died and made you MR ethics.
 
billgoat,

Did you mean to head shoot the animal at that distance? If so you must know Howard Hill.
 
First I would like to commend utahheadgear on some excellant points. Second I would like someone to explain to me why being an archer would be a bad thing. During the off season I shoot almost everyday to make myself a better bowhunter. My dedication to shooting year round allows me to increase my effective shooting range. I have no doubts that most bowhunters should limit their shooting range to 30 yards, but not because of ethics, because of lack of dedication. As far as 50 yards goes a true bowhunter will be able to make the call if it is a shot oppurtunity or not. I would consider a relaxed elk in the wide open at 50 yards a gimme. I would pass on a nervous coues at 50 yards. The key to knowing when you are presented with a shot oppurtunity is experience and that can't be practiced. To those of you that are still doubters you might try reading Life At Full Draw definitely a bowhunter and no doubt would take a 50 yard shot. So my suggestion is when season is open spend all your time out pursing wildlife and becoming a better woodsman and during the off season spend a some time on the archery range.
 
If one takes a 55 yard shot at a walking antelope in a 30 mph crosswind, would that not be an ethics issue and not a lack of dedication issue? I guess it depends on the circumstances to shoot or not. I think too many people wound animals because they don't have good ethics. I'm sure some of you are incredible shots at 50 yards and beyond, under the right circumstances.
 
Zigga,
I definitely think this would be an ethics issue, or poor judgement, of lack of experience. I would like to think most of us would not consider that a shot oppurtunity, unfortunetly there is always a bad apple in the bunch. The rest of us will continue to respect the animals we pursue and stay within our limits.
 
A walking animal is a different issue all together. I would have to decline a walking shot personally. If you don't have the ability to take a 50yd. shot then don't take one! Case in point: An archery javelina hunter in Tucson took a moving shot at a pig. A few days later a gentleman is out getting his mail and looks over and sees a javelina eating on his roses. The man writes a "letter to the editor" of the local rag stating that he was neither for or against hunting but after seeing a javelina with an arrow sticking out of its rear he vowed to support the anti-hunting groups with every penny he could afford to stop hunting.

Thats why we NEED to now our limits whether is 30 yds or 50 yds.

Donnie
 
AZWALKER said somthing that I think is very important, and we should all mull it over. But let me ask this first... Why is it you stinkin wound wackin bowhunters get all the best seasons anyway? Your all out there ahead of everyone else, when populations are at a high, for the most part, and with those things you call bows you can and do shoot, as far as I do with my shotgun?

Perception fellows, it is all about perception! The question I just posed was very similar to the question a legislative body member ask the Pennnsylvania wildlife department about two years ago. Even with all the bowhunting participants in Penn. Bowhunting was on the ropes, and they were at risk loosing a special season that had been fought for and developed over the years by the pioneers of bowhunting. All because one powerful legislator's son, yes son, shot a deer at 50 yards with his compound bow. He must of had some heat from the powder constituants in his district when the word hit the streets, who knows but it happened.

While all states and game populations are not created equal, as it pertains to the liberal nature of bag and how one goes about filling it, the non-hunter, not just the anti, often base opinions on passing, fleating, often inacurate info and observation. It is tough to put out those type of fires. It is best not to let one get started.

As bowhunters we should do "EVERYTHING" we can to minimize the opportunity to send the wrong messages. I have one friend who has "people panic" and can't shoot for beans in any type of target shoot, yet I can't remember the last time he didn't shoot an animal cleanly. Then I have another friend who is a great target shot who falls apart with "buck fever" on animals.

Know thyself, know thy quary, and be honest, then think about what it looks or sounds like to someone who has no idea if you practice everyday or not, or can track ants across the pavement.
This post is not as simple as; is 50 yards too far?

I believe there are situations that are perfect to loose an arrow in. I also believe that they are few and far to happen and that the majority of bowhunters push the limits as do all hunters with all weapons. Even in those great moments, it can go bad...your measure is what you did leading up to it, and what you do after.

A great read is Dr. Dave Samuals book "Know Hunting". You can find it on a web search under that title.

Keep it low and be worthy of luck.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-24-05 AT 03:33PM (MST)[p]WELL ADDRESSED THERE AIMLOW.
sory but most of us here are very avid hunters and know our abilities, AND our bows,
I shoot at 50 to 60 yards every day, at targets as large as apples, DOWN TO GOLF BALLS.
its been years sence i missed my target and even longer on a lost arrow.
so is 50 yards to far? can man reach the moon?
with a little pratice, practice, practice, practice,p ractice,
i beleave you could to. set your sites on AIMhigh, or the cando attitude, dude.
for me to make a 60 yard shot is as simple to call for me as a 10 yard shot.
the big advantage is the elk or deer arn't going to jump at the bow noise as likely, if at all.
it sounds like your in for a rude wakening, if you to continue posting crap, with Quotes.
if the shots there,
you know your capabilities with the bow at hand.
its your judgement on weather the shots to long.
I haven't heard one comment about flinging arrows just for the sake of shooting.
would you give your 3 year old the keys and have he, or she run down the the store.
well the could be a maybe, i know at that age the are learening at an excelarated pace, what they learn in 1 week is more than you can understand in 6 years.
50 yards is that to far?
 
Aimlow,
Sounds like elkmaster has it all figured out I guess. Not sure if he got your point but I did. Good Post! Rude people are great ain't they? I don't understand the 3 year old driving thing either.
 
It is hunting season, no time to address every comment but I will! Aimlow I imagine you to like to shoot animals inclose, Thanks for saying what I hoped would come out.

My main question tonight is what is an animal worth, dollar value?

In my state a trophy animal that is poached comes with at least an $8000 dollar fine. So I will start with an animal being worth $8000.

My question for all you long rangers:

Would any one like to get involved in a friendly competition $8000 dollar entry fee. on an unknown yardage (over 50 yds) target shoot? To make it fair the target will have the capability to move or not. If you make a vital hit you keep your 8 grand in the pot, we will shoot until there is one winner. No one makes a vital hit the pot money will be donated to the NBEF.

For all you guys who are so sure of yourselves (about a half dozen or so on this thread) this is a time to put your money where your mouth is. I will arrange the competition. Any
takers?
 
mulepacker,
you want to make the bet, You put the bucks up. I'll be glad to shoot at it,
and i bet there is plenty of guys here that would take it,
in other words put up or shut up.
 
MulePacker,

Would love to play your silly game, but will be heading to New Mexico to chase elk. Instead of putting my money where my mouth is I'll be putting my arrow where the lungs are. Hoping for a 5 yard shot, but being the devil that I am I may take one out to 50 yards.
 
i don't know about that game but i would have to say that the deer at 50 yards away would turn his head and look to see what that thwack sound was before he would jump anywhere. Take the shot and besides there is the same amount of chance that you jerk the shot and wound the deer than there is of the deer moving at the last second. Thats all i have to say.
 
I hate the say anything regarding this topic, but honestly with today's equipment and techonology, there are plenty of dedicated bowhunters/archers out there that can make this shot day in day out ethically no questions asked. It's up to each individual to know their own limit, one should instill that upon themselves and stick to it.

Just because a guy is capable of taking an animal cleanly at a distance of 50 yards or beyond, doesn't make him any less of a bowhunter. In fact, I would argue the point that one who does put forth this amount of effort and dedication be more attuned to the other aspects involved as to being a successful bowhunter, due to the amount dedication that is involved to attain such a level of profficiency..... I would also argue that the long range shooting capabilities of one's arsenal is only one small skilled to be learned and honed combined with many others in order to be as successful of a bow hunter as one can be... These guys are normally the ones that shoot nearly every day throughout the year, and know their equipment, surrounding conditions and an animals behavior to more of a level than most...

BTW- MulePacker, any legitimate long range archer worth his salt will straight up tell you that his range finder is absolutely key in ethically, and consistently accomplishing the task of which you have contrived...
 
Nothing was said about a bet. It is a competition where the entry fee will be $8000. That is what it will cost you and all of these other guys and myself if we are wishing to participate, are you in? I will arrange for the competition if we get some takers.
After reading through the threads again I believe a 4" dia. circle will be a sufficient target. To make it a little more interesting we could cut it in a metal sillhouette, so we can easily determine a hit or miss.
We could hold it during the fall in a location closest to the participants. Or a batter idea maybe to hold it in Idaho and afterwards go on an elk hunt they still have OTC tags available. Maybe I could learn a few tricks from the elkmaster.
 
Well I'll just stand corrected by you "dedicated" die hard hunters...er I mean shooters. Conservationly speaking, some of you have now formed a new group; we'll call you "long range harvesters with archery tackle". Thank You, after 32 years of bowhunting, I've now learned that the object is to not to see how close you can get before you kill it but to see how far away you can shoot towards it! Hell I've wasted alot of time sneaking around. Wish I'd had this learning forum years ago, along with all the "How to kill it video's". Just think of all the time I'd saved myself. I would have attended a lot more football games by getnerdone!

I really thought bowhunting was all about woodskills and tight quarters I think the Mule dude said it..inclose. That would be one great spectator sport Mr. Mule Lumps (sorry couldn't remember your name). With an entrance fee of $8000.00 there'd be some big time trigger slappin, double clutchin and heavy breathin. I guess animals just don't get the respect $8000.00 does. And why should they, they are just smelly ole animals. From watchin this thread ...25 cents should about cover the entrance fee.

I can see most of you are the future of bowhunting....anyone know where I can find a pick up game of checkers.

Thanks to those of you who get it! or who are at least on the learning curve and working on it.

See you on the curve,

Aim Low
 
You always know when someone is suffering from some deep down guilt, the defense wall of agression rears it's ugly head.

It seems that OSOK is refering to my last post,if so here is my answer....I have a library of bowhunting Authors that is fairly large and inclusive of most. Including the Witchery of Archery; where in, the Thompson brothers shoot into rafts of waterfowl and the Snowy Egret is a trophy to be had. (Shoot one of those today and post up you did it)

Last night I read from Fred Bears Feild notes about the Bengal Tiger that "leads" one to believe he shot at it the first time some where around 100 yards.

Here are my final words..............that was then....this is now! Being in the minority "we" will not decide if "we" continue to hunt or not. The majority will decide, and that happens to be the "non hunting public". You need more fear, to figure this out? Bowhunting is the minority of the minority.
 
GET A LIFE aimlow,
snow egret are dam good eating, taste just like hooping crain, and a little like bald eagle.
authers, smothers, pick up a bow and shoot it.
i shot recurves up to about 1972 bought my first compound
by AMF, (which i still have).
but don't shoot.
and over the years advanced along with the finer equipment.
live and die bow hunting.
I'm not a target shooter, but when there is nothing to eatable to shoot I'll shoot targets.
can't remember the thousands of articals over the years i read on hunting.
i just thru out boxes and boxes of old hunting magazines.
probably 2,000 or so.
I know i should have E-bayed them.
just remember on thing,
with a call name "aimlow" your always going to be a looser.
sorry to point that out to you, but i felt I had to.
 
LOL- this is funny chit....

I agree with OSOK...Its the hunters responsibilty to know his limitations. Some people have no business shooting 20 yards let alone 50+. Same goes for rifle, some can shoot 600 yards, others couldn't hit a 3' piece of paper at 100... So you go around stereotyping guys that can and will shoot long range acurately, and have great success, as unethical hunters. I know guys that have wounded several animals at close distances...Guess what its bowhunting, Chit happens to everyone, not just long distance shooters. A person has to know what their limitations are and that's for nobody else to judge...To know not to shoot at an animal looking right at you, and many other factors...being ethical at long range as well as short range. God knows I've passed on 20 yard shots because they just weren't right...situation dictates everything!!

I'm not saying I shoot as far away as I can, but I shoot when I feel the opportunity can't be any better. BTW as for "US" long distance archers...90% of my animals have been under 20 yards, so don't say all of us sling arrow that far because we can. As for putting money were my mouth is....If you can hit it at 20 moving I'll do it at 50 and we'll see who's the closest...And maybe put your long distance theory all to chit!!
 
Aimlow,

As you said "that was then, this is now". I'd take your own advice and start reading some archery material from todays publications instead of that old outdated crap you've got. There are hundreds of articles and books written by very respected bowhunters about shooting at longer ranges.
I don't beleive for one second that advancments in equipment and hunters shooting ability will hurt bowhunting at all. In fact, I'm certain that if you were trying to convince a non bowhunter of the effeciency and effectiveness of archery equipment for hunting by shooting at a target at any distance, even 20 yards, he would send me to the woods to hunt with my modern, well tuned equipment, and he would send you and your traditional equipment on down to the sporting goods store to get something that works.
You want to talk about bad shooting hurting the sport...... let's talk about it! I don't see you complaining about traditional archers that have no idea where their arrow is going wounding critters. Why not?? I've sure seen alot of it in my day.

Point is, we each have our choice of equipment and the responsibility to know how far we can shoot with it. Be it traditional or modern. I don't care what your definition of bowhunting is........Know your ability and take shots accordingly. Be honest with yourself. And if you can honestly make a 60 yard shot. Let 'er rip! And don't let anyone tell you any different. And if you can't make that shot then dammit, get closer!! It's that simple.

Incidentally, most people CANNOT make that 60 yard shot. A few people can.
 
Kinda funny. I would consider myself a conservative long range shooter and I was in the stand this weekend and passed a 40 yd broadside shot at a pretty good muley. The only reason I didn't take the shot is because it just didn't feel right. I don't know if it was the way the buck was behaving or what but it just didn't feel right. This is a perfect example of good judgement. I'm not trying to blow my own horn, I'm not being arrogant but I'm living up to my OWN standard. Bowhunting is by nature a very personal sport. It is the most solatary form of hunting there is. When you start telling hardcore bowhunters how to hunt and when to shoot, you might as well be trying to tell them how to raise there own kids. Its Personal. Granted there are plenty of idiots out there who take stupid shots, I watched a guy attempt a 65 yd shot on a buck and might as well have been shooting straight up in the air. The thing we need to continue to preach is KNOW YOUR OWN CAPABILITIES, LIMITATIONS AND HUNT RESPONSIBLY. Have rspect enough for you quarry to know how to make a 50 yd shot if need be. What if one of you 20yd guys had buck jump the string at 20 yds and broke its back leg, then after tracking it all the closer you could get is 50 yds., oops thats an unethical shot better let him suffer. In my opinion if you can't hit a pie plate at 50 yds you shouldn't be hunting Muleys or Elk spot'n'stalk. And I also promise you that more animals jump the string at 20 than they do at 50! We're talking about the west here guys, we're not gonna get very many 20 yd broadside shots. You guys wanna limit yourselves to 30yds.... beautiful that'll leave more of the big boys for me.

Oh and I've got a challenge for you pal. You come down here to AZ and I'll put you on a big desert Muley and I'll bet $8000 against yours that you won't be able to stalk in within' 20 yds. Wheres your money????

Donnie
 
elkmaster,

I can assure you aimlow is not loose, it is everything I can do to corner him after a few weeks in the mountains!!

If you meant "loser" then I find a lot of irony in a person who can not spell or punctuate in calling someone else a "looser".

The 90/10 rule simply states that 10 percent of the bowhunters will tag 90 percent of the animals, year in year out. I know that aimlow is the 10 percent in my neck of the woods. Could that be because he chooses to get in close?
 
I feel that a bigger problem with wounding animals is those so called "hunters" who never even pick up their bow until the night before the hunt and then head out figuring they can kill anything that moves. That kind of crap has to stop. And they are the kind that will come back into town boasting of all the animals they "hit" this year.
I'd much rather see an experienced, well practiced archer take a 50 yard shot in good conditions than these ignorant so called "hunters" that go out with no practice, and no dang idea of what they are doing, and shoot at anything that moves..
Just one of my pet peeves..
 
The ethical shot is one that can be taken at a range that the archer can achieve a quick clean humane kill in the conditions prevailing at the time. In some instances 30 yards may be too far. The conditions in the west are vastly different than an eastern woods. In some cases you can't see an animal past 20 yards in the heavy woods. A nice Muley feeding in a clearing out here at 40-50 yards can be a good target. An elk feeding at 40-50 yards poses an easier target to the accomplished archer. One would hope that at whatever distance you feel that your capabilities are you take the best shot possible. The most important facet to this topic is that we all need to practice our craft and to hone our skills to be able to make that shot because there are many more variables in archery as opposed to gun hunting. I think there are some great posts on this topic and as to what distance is ethical will be debated many times into the future. But I think that if you let your ability guide you, you'll most certainly come up with the right answer. One things for certain though the quality and the equiptment today have most definately extended an archers lethal range of operation. Just last week I witnessed a young fellow about 24-27 shooting at our outdoor range at 65 yards and I saw him shoot 4 five shot groups at the target. Believe it or not, not a single shot was outside of a 5" blue bullseye he had put on the target and he was shooting a hunting bow with pins and a quiver on the rig! Given that little demonstration I think he could have made a 50 yard shot with relative eze. Would he, I have no idea, but he surely could have, given the right set of conditions.
 
I'll go in on the following conditions:

1) I NEVER take a long shot without my range finder -- never, so you would have to modify your competition to allow me to use my range finder.

2) I NEVER take a shot over 60 yards, so you would have to ammend your rules to say within 50 to 60 yards.

3) a 4" Target for a kill zone? Are we killing rabbits? If you are trying to replicate an actual kill on a big game animal, you will have to ammend the diameter of your kill to 8 inches.

4) I choose when I shoot -- you may have to wait all day or until the next day for me to take my shot due to wind, sun, etc.

How do these ammendments sound to you? For the record, I have had three kills over 50 yards, including this year (54 yard shot -- antelope). I have never wounded or missed a shot over 50 yards (or under for that matter) as I am very careful. Will I miss a shot in the future? Possibly, as there are no guarantees in hunting. I'm certainly not bragging, but I take exception to anyone establishing a minimum safe shooting distance.
 
To each their own, I suppose. I prefer to stay within 25 yards, but felt confident shooting out to 40 when I used a compound. There are no doubt some excellant shooters that are qualified to shoot out to 50 or 60 yards. I suppose they will be the ones who are paying attention to the many variables that could affect the outcome of the shot--before they release. The concern is of course how many people go out and attempt shots that far who aren't remotely qualified. We see the same thing with rifle hunters as well. Some well qualified to take a 400 yard shot, while most of us would do well to keep it within 200 yards. So....

Is 50 yds too far? For me, absolutely. For the majority of bowhunters I know or hear of through second hand aquaintence, yes. I hear of far too many wounded and lost animals.
 
50 yards is very shootable. With the right equiptment and alot of practice it should not even be a question. I know guys that are practicing up to 110 yards and are consistant to the inside diameter of a paper plate. if using a surelock adjustable sight you can shot longer distances and be very comfortable doint it. I know several guys that have killed nice bucks at over 60 yards, i recently shot a nice buck at 50 yards and it only went 6o to 75 yards. Again i wouldnt even question shooting over 50 yards but it takes practice practice practice and most importantly CONFIDENCE!!!!!
 
Funny thing, (actually not vey funny)
I was hunting last weekend and got a shot at a nice Muley. It was about a 23 yard shot, slightly uphill, easy enough for me. He jumped the string going down and back at the same time. He was actually turning when the arrow hit his neck. Got a good blood trail (at first). Tracked him for 4 miles and took all day doing it. Lost the blood trail, lost the deer! Severly bumbed out. Just goes to show ya, one can only control whats behind the arrow, not whats in front. If it were a 53 yard shot, I'd probably be eating backstraps right now. If they're gonna move at 50yds they'll move at 20, its just part of the hunt.

Donnie
 
Im new here, but i personally dont think its to far a shot! Im 13 yrs old, and ive killed two deer (not to brag) and one was 56 yds and the other was 43 yds. This year in January i missed a coues at 25 yds, he also jumped my string!
 
Also my family has a saying (archery saying) "if they dont fly, they dont die!"
 

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