Indians Shooting Rams along the Salmon River

[Hauss]

So what's the deal? To start off I'm not against any race but why can the Indians buy a Ram tag for $1.75 and drive up and down the Salmon river looking for Rams and then shoot what ever they want? Does any one know the laws on this and why we are raising rams to let them do this? I don't know about you but this just doesn't seem fair? Yes we took their land and gave them the res. Whatever they do on the res, I don't care that is their business. I can't hunt on their res, without outrages fees. I put in for rams for 12 years, spend thousands of dollars and weeks of vacation, hiked my @ss all over the mountains to not even see a ram. I guess what makes me mad about this is I was Steelhead fishing last weekend and watched some American Indains hunting rams off the road during the rut. No hiking, no scouting, no time, no $185 fee, no guide, no research. We treat rams as a trophy animal and the Indians can shoot them like jack rabbits. How can we change the law on this? Anyone have any ideas on how to fix this? Is it the same in all states? Why do they have to follow all the other laws of land but not hunting laws? That said I have nothing agianst the American Indians but at least make it fair for everyone on these once in a life time hunts. If I'm way out of line on this let me know. I don't know the rules the Indians have to follow but would be willing to understand how this works.

 

[steelheader]

I'm with you on this! If they want to go by the old laws then they should have to hunt the old way, home made bows and arrows. They shoot the goats, the big bucks, and the big bulls on the winter range, its crap. Everyone complains about the fish and game but up there this is a big problem they cant do anything about.

 

[mlrshooter]

They have the right to hunt this way (and fish) based upon their treaty rights. The ONLY way for it to be changed is through Congress with a completely new treaty. Most tribes have similar allowances. Oh, and Hauss, the rez is by no means a "gift" given to the tribes. Don't get me started.

 

[Yoyak]

This will piss you off then:
I know of an indian guy that lives on the SF of the Clearwater who has killed a legit 200" ram and a 197" ram, in the dead of winter from the boat. I've seen both of them in person and they are absolutley incredible rams. He also was proud to show me some giant mulies that he shot using a spotlight early when the bucks were still in velvet. I could go on about the quality of this guys character but I will spare you the details.

 

[jt00082]

The treaty rights that the Indians have will never be changed. Ever. It is as simple as that. Congress would have to do it and there isn't any chance that they are going to step in because of some animals are getting killed. If they took treaty rights from the Indians, it would be like stealing their land all over again and congress will definitely not do that. If it was costing the federal government money, then they would look into it.

Also, I have Indian rights because of my family...but you don't see me going around shooting stuff left and right. Heck, I actually put in for the hunts with F&G and pay my fee's.

If my family was going hungry then I'd go out and shoot a deer or elk for meat. But we're not..so it is a sport for me and I pay my dues.

There are quota's set in place for the Indians, although people may not like them. Indians get at least 4 deer, 2 elk, 1 moose, 1 sheep, 1 goat, and as many bears/lions as you can find a year per person. Kinda crazy to me, but there isn't anything you can do.

Just my two cents...

 

[mlrshooter]

Thanks for posting, JT. I too have treaty rights, just not here in Idaho. If I did, I would hunt just as you are doing. My comment above on the rez comment relates to the OP talking as though the res given to the tribes was a gift. Maybe I mis-read their intent.

 

[fly4fish]

Yoyak,

I believe I have run into you friend on the SF Clearwater river. He was telling me that he has killed at least 15 big horns in Hell's Canyon. He had just shot a couple nice muleys 2 weeks before Archery season, an Idaho bull already, and in a few days was heading to the Washington Blue Mountians to rifle some bulls in the rut, of which he got a 390 plus bull, I saw pictures of it. He then went on to tell me that he thinks Idaho has bad management and things need to change. It was pretty pathetic and sad listening to him brag about his rights.

 

[Yoyak]

fly4fish,
I hope that is the same guy because it worries me to think there might be 2 game hogs like that out there. To clarify he isn't a friend of mine, he was just the neighbor of a friend of mine. It was hard to hide my digust while this guy showed us all the huge animals he had poached. It's been 5 years since I met him, it sounds like he's been busy. This post truly ruined my day. Since there is nothing we can do about it, ignorance is bliss, I'd almost rather not hear these stories.

 

[Yoyak]

I'd much rather hear about respectable tribal hunters like mlrshooter and jt00082. It sounds like you guys have the opporunity to IMO overharvest, but choose not to out of respect for the big game herds, and love/challenge of the hunt. That is very admirable I think.

 

[fly4fish]

Yoyak,

Sorry, I wasn't serious about the friend part. I think it probably is the same guy because he told me about the big rams and one being around 200" as well as a 196, 193, and many more. I think he does a lot of talking/bragging. I guess his daughter killed what would be B&C's biggest ram ever killed by a women if there had been a tag to go with it. I can't believe how much money is put into those sheep only to have them killed by people that pay the least amount to obtain the permit. This is a once in a lifetime hunt for most of us if we get very lucky.

What is there for him to brag about? Just because he has some big horns on his shed doesn't mean he had to work for them. It is not hard to shoot big bucks, bulls, and rams when you can do it even before the archery hunters have a chance. Most hunting Indians that I have had the pleasure of running into will shoot the animal and immediately look for a person to buy the antlers. Hopefully they at least take the meat, although I am not sure if that law applies to them either.

 

[Bullelk1]

I know a taxidermist who has mounted some of these great rams. I think they are being sold for $$$$$$ by the "hunters". Makes me sick.

 

[deepforks]

they dont give two $htis about sustaining game and/or fish. as long as they can get as much as they can........

 

[Triple_BB]

Hey you guys got one of those type reservations too? Shooting a few rams is nothing. Saw the other day where congress was in the process of approving a settlement with the indians to the tune of 4 billion dollars. Told my wife a few weeks ago before this that we needed to both retire so everyone else can pay for all this crap. What's the point of working...

 

[940jones]

There are ways to deal with these inconsiderate people. What do they drive.

 

[Bullelk1]

You will see them if you drive down river, Jones.

 

[pookiebar]

What about wolves? Can you shoot them? If so I will personally pay you $200 you shoot!

 

[MarchMadness]

We have the same problems in Eastern Oregon. I talked to a tribal member three years ago at his camp and he had nine branch bulls hanging. He told me he was hunting by himself.
Also see them all the time up in the Wenaha road hunting for big bulls, rams, and our moose herd thats trying to grow. No limit to what they want to shoot or how big. I would chip in if they would help with the wolf population.

 

[beavis14]

yes if they wanted to get in our good graces they should shoot all the wolves for us ! but i am almost certain they concider the wolves kindred spirits or some such b.s.

really want to get pissed watch them salmon fish !!!!!

 

[woodtick]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-04-11 AT 06:44PM (MST)[p]I'll 2nd that Beav, Them pricks are hell on Steelhead Hens. Makes me sick to watch them net them while there spawning!! Good luck gettin them to kill a wolf!!

TICK
TALL, WIDE, AND HANDSOME

 

[habitat]

Maybe they should make it to where they can't sell them if shot under treaty rights.I wonder how many generations we will have to give all these special handouts to

 

[missalot]

Now seriously, guys, if you were pizzed about how the gov't treated you, wouldn't you do the same thing to pizz us all off? I say that someone needs to reduce the pop of those doing this.