In Bess's neck of the woods...

LAST EDITED ON May-07-14 AT 02:38PM (MST)[p]OK - I know Pablo and I have seen all 21 minutes of the video and am going to say this here and now and not say anything else.

First - I am 100% in favor of our nation's police and military. I believe they are mostly good people and the great majority of them have only the best of intentions and truly believe they are truly serving the public. I am glad it is not my job to scrutinize their actions, especially from video that is not very good and doesn't show all the proceedings. They have a difficult job and it is made even more difficult by the scrutiny they are under. I think this officer did in fact, at first, act in good faith and was doing his job and going out of the way to do so.

That being said - becuase I know Pablo very well and would happily serve as a character witness for him, I can tell you now this officer didn't need to go to this extreme, and didn't need to hurt him as badly as he did to arrest him, even if he thought it was necessary to arrest him after he left his truck and wasn't following orders. I can guarantee that the officer's safety and life were NEVER in jeopardy! And if he felt it was - it was only because HE escalated it when it didn't need to be.

Pablo Geronimo is a 63 year old man from Peru, about 5'5" tall and maybe 150 pounds. It looks like this officer probably did everything right and Pablo did everything wrong and by the letter of the law and his rules of engagement and personal safety. That is probably the way it will go down. So, to that I say this to that officer: I hope you feel justified in beating him up the way he did, after you had him crying already just because of the situation. Good job dude. Good effort. BIG SLOW CLAP FOR YOU!

I was quite impressed with the supervisor's comments too. "Sounds like fun" - "What's your problem today!" Nice.




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Should have just let the sheep drive.


[font color="blue"]I don't make the soup,I just stir it.[/font]
 
RE: In Bess's neck of the woods...y

Pablo should have stayed in peru, he has been here how long ? and still trying the I don't under stand, crap.,,,,Crying, how many times had that worked in the 14 times he has broke the law,,and got caught,,,,send him back to peru,
 
RE: In Bess's neck of the woods...y

Really?

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RE: In Bess's neck of the woods...y

My truck hit's him he can retire, he hit's me I'm f#cked I have to sue my insurance company.
 
RE: In Bess's neck of the woods...y

When I was a kid, police officers were placed on pedestals.

Now that I am middle aged, I have seen enough to know there are lots of bad apples.

I really doubt it was necessary to get that physical with the old man.

Yep, I know they got a crap job, and I would never want it.
 
RE: In Bess's neck of the woods...y

Not trying to start an argument here.
What would have been a better way to stop him? He was ignoring him.
I agree he seemed non-violent, but still? The cop was alone. Should he have waited?
 
RE: In Bess's neck of the woods...y

LAST EDITED ON May-07-14 AT 09:28PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON May-07-14 AT 09:26?PM (MST)

>264mag +1000

You guys are missing the point. No one said the officer didn't have to cite him for driving an unregistered vehicle or for not being licensed, just that he didn't have to take him down as hard as he did and inflict the damage he did to him in the process. Oh and the truck was insured, just had expired tags. So if he hits you, you will be covered. Pay attention.

captain_coues - He could have done it a hundred different ways that didn't involve a 200+ lb 20-30 year old slamming an old man half his size face first into the pavement. Waiting might have been wise.



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He has 14 violations since 1994. No wonder Roy knows him. Probably from traffic court. Seems Roy lives there too.

Eel
 
RE: In Bess's neck of the woods...y

LAST EDITED ON May-07-14 AT 09:30PM (MST)[p]Not sure why he could not have just wrote him a ticket for no license and expired registration and let the guy walk back to his sheep.
 
Well, you can bet I would help him defend himself! ;-)



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RE: In Bess's neck of the woods...y

>LAST EDITED ON May-07-14
>AT 09:28?PM (MST)
>
>LAST EDITED ON May-07-14
>AT 09:26?PM (MST)
>
>>264mag +1000
>
>You guys are missing the point.
>No one said the officer
>didn't have to cite him
>for driving an unregistered vehicle
>or for not being licensed,
>just that he didn't have
>to take him down as
>hard as he did and
>inflict the damage he did
>to him in the process.
>Oh and the truck was
>insured, just had expired tags.
>So if he hits you,
>you will be covered. Pay
>attention.
>
>captain_coues - He could have done
>it a hundred different ways
>that didn't involve a 200+
>lb 20-30 year old slamming
>an old man half his
>size face first into the
>pavement. Waiting might have been
>wise.
>
>
>
>HOOK 'EM!
>_______________________________________
>
>Since I am frequently asked about
>my religion on this site
>and others, I have created
>a profile that explains my
>beliefs. If you are interested
>in finding out more about
>my faith, please visit the
>link below:
>
>http://mormon.org/me/6RNQ/
Yea Okay, here in CA. You only have to carry $15,000 in liability! They can pay or walk like the rest of us.
 
Maybe the driver didn't speak English and he couldn't understand the officers instructions. I really feel the officer is to blame for not knowing how to converse with the suspect in Peruvian. Maybe we need to start spending our tax dollars on ride-a-long interpreters?

Cancer doesn't discriminate...don't take your good health for granted because it can be gone in a heartbeat. Please go back and read the last line. This time really understand what it says.
 
LAST EDITED ON May-07-14 AT 11:40PM (MST)[p]Again, not the point. He understands English, he understood what the officer was saying. Language is beside the point -(and sorry Wisz, there is no language called "Peruvian". He speaks Spanish, quechua, and English.) - the whole incident preceding up to the physical confrontation is beside the point. It looks he did everything right up to that point and I am not even saying the officer didn't need to put him in cuffs - just that he didn't need to slam his head into the pavement to do it.

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>Maybe the driver didn't speak English
>and he couldn't understand the
>officers instructions. I really feel
>the officer is to blame
>for not knowing how to
>converse with the suspect in
>Peruvian. Maybe we need to
>start spending our tax dollars
>on ride-a-long interpreters?
>
>Cancer doesn't discriminate...don't take your good
>health for granted because it
>can be gone in a
>heartbeat. Please go back and
>read the last line. This
>time really understand what it
>says.

They speak Spanish is Peru, not Peruvian. If you are going to look down on someone at least pretend that you are half educated.
 
OK so from knowing this gentleman, You say he understands English just fine. And he understood the officers commands. You also said that the officer shouldn't have taken him down so hard.? So with your understanding of this gentleman.,and knowing his history as you claim. Why Didn't he obey the commands. And just how hard should the officer have taken him down. Also the pictures of the guy with all the ... "Damage". You should know that, too guys can get whacked in the mug, one doesn't get so much as a mark and the other with bruise up like rocky racoon,you cant tell how hard the "take down" was from the pictures. It looks to me like a bad situation that someone is trying to make worse. If the same thing were to happen with me ( 6'-3" and 300 lbs) you would be praising the officer and stating how they have a tough job and have to be on their toes at all times. I AM NOT defending the officer, but i wont crucify him either.It was mentioned that the old man has a history with 14 violations I think it was said, could be he's just a really slow learner I guess. Im sorry the old feller got hurt, could have been easily avoided... by obeying the law and the officers commands.
 
LAST EDITED ON May-08-14 AT 07:07AM (MST)[p] Im
>sorry the old feller got
>hurt, could have been easily
>avoided... by obeying the law
>and the officers commands.

Or by the officer not slamming his face into the pavement as he readily admits.

Again, I am not arguing the violations, the need to pull him over, or the fact that Pablo should have listened to the officer, just the fact that he didn't need to have have face slammed into the pavement like he did.

But while we are on the subject - since when does having 14 traffic violations over a 20 year period (less than 1 per year, all of which are traffic/vehicle related and were either dismissed or the fine was paid- read the entire article please) equal the need for a cop to kick someone's ass? I'll bet I have at least that many myself in that same period of time (including one that was successfully defended ;-)),if not more! Are you telling me then that the next time I get pulled over I should expect the officer to rough me up just because I am not a perfect driver? Besides that - that is clearly not what happened here.

Again, I am not arguing any of that, I am not arguing the need for him to be arrested or for the officer to forcibly subdue him. All I am saying is that he didn't need to slam his face into the pavement to do so.

Be honest - do you think he can look at the photos of Pablo's face and truly feel proud of himself about it? I don't think I could.

But maybe he does, and maybe that is a direct reflection of the quality and attitude of his leadership. "Sounds like fun!" - Oh yeah, slamming a 63 year old man into the pavement is a whole lot of fun!

Is that the attitude a law enforcement officer should have?

I'll bet Pablo's lawyer is going to have a field day with this one. If I were his lawyer, I know I would. I hope he does.

That's all I have to say.

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Could have been handled better by both parties. Easy to sit back and armchair quarterback something like this but in the heat of the moment none of us can predict what would happen if it were us in either spot. I hope they can resolve it without lawyers.


[font color="blue"]I don't make the soup,I just stir it.[/font]
 
its funny how the pablo,s all ways have money to sue. like I said send him back to whatever shizz hole he came from.Roy you and his lawyer should go with him!!!
 
elkun, Roy can't go. He doesn't know Peruvian, he would be lost.

It seems to me the officer was trying to be as nice as he could be. The face is very delicate and very easy to mark. Man, he should have complied and this wouldn't have happened.

I've only been pulled over twice since 1966, and my face is fine (depending on who you ask, of course:))

Eel
 
LAST EDITED ON May-08-14 AT 11:12AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON May-08-14 AT 10:59?AM (MST)

Elkun, I am really trying to have charity for you brother, but with statements like this you continue to make it difficult. Nevertheless, I will continue to try to understand your ignorance and forgive you for it. But by all means, don't ever try to leave the Basin. By your own words, you have proven you don't belong anywhere else. Just stay there and don't ever leave the little "shizz hole (you) came from". I don't know you and have never met you, but from the sounds of your comments I am betting it is either Jensen or Myton, probably the latter. And just in case you were wondering - yes, it is a "shizz hole" - they both are.

I hope Pablo's sheep ruin your elk hunt.



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Roy, I forgot to add this earlier. Did you happen to hear the charges to your friend?

In addition to the vehicle charges he is also charged with resisting arrest and ASSULT ON A POLICE OFFICER. That will get knuckle bumps dang near every time, even if you are 63 5'5".

It doesn't show the "assult" on video, so I can't say it happened or not.

Eel
 
Well, you can see what the assault started out as and the officer confirms it in the video in his statement to the supervisor: he was trying to grab Pablo's arm and Pablo jerked his arm away and up and it struck the officer. Yes, by the letter of the law that does constitute assault on an officer. But does that necessarily give that officer carte blanche authority to slam an old man face first into the concrete? I guess the letter of the law says yes, but let's have some common sense here! There is still a principle called RESTRAINT that he could have and should have used. He did NOT have to inflict the amount of damage he did.

Let's put it this way. Say for example I live in Naples, UT and I have a 14 year old son who is 5'5" tall and weighs around 150 lbs. I am 6'0" and weigh north of 200. My son gets mouthy with me and I grab his arm and he jerks it away and swings and hits me. Am I justified then in grabbing him and overpowering him and slamming him to the ground face first into the concrete? When I take him to the emergency room with contusions on his forehead, his face and bruised with two black eyes is the Naples Chief of Police going to say "I stand behind my this father's actions"?

Or, will he arrest me, charge me with child abuse, and prosecute me to the full extent of the law?

Should I feel proud of myself because I did my fatherly duty? Or should I feel ashamed because I used my strength to overpower someone who was clearly weaker than me and exercised zero restraint in a situation where I clearly should have?

Yes the Police have to protect themselves and the communities they serve and sometimes they have to go to extreme measures to do so, but this wasn't one of those times. They still have just as much of a moral imperative to exercise restraint (or even more so) as does every other citizen. Even if what this officer did was legally justifiable, it was still morally reprehensible.

As I said in my other statements, it looks like the officer did his job - he did what he had to do to enforce his commands and enforce the law, so to that officer this is what I have to say:

GOOD JOB MR. BIG OFFICER MAN!! You just slammed a 63 year old 5'5" tall Peruvian who was already crying face first into the sidewalk!! Better take that ticket and post it on your wall - keep it as a trophy! WHOO HOOO!! "Sounds like fun!" It takes a big macho man to do what you did. Thanks for keeping us safe from Pablo.



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OK Roy, I get your point. I personally couldn't/wouldn't do that to a stressed out old gentleman. I might even have to turn in my badge if instructed to do so. Some of those old guys are a lot tougher than you think though. An old sheep herder is in probably better shape than the young officer. A lot of old guys I know, I wouldn't want to mess with.

Eel
 
Stonefly- +1

Sierra- By your statement, you suggest I'm unedumacated because I don't know what language they speak in Peru. How am I supposed to know what language they speak over there in Europe?
I was not looking down on him....but, I am 5'10" so technically, if I was next to him speaking Peruvian, I'd be looking down on him....but that's getting off subject. It was brought up earlier that Pablo speaks English. As mentioned before...why didn't he comply with the officers instructions? Gimme a break. Just because he is small and old, he's given a free pass from instruction from a peace officer?...and I use "Peace" officer loosely in this case.

Cancer doesn't discriminate...don't take your good health for granted because it can be gone in a heartbeat. Please go back and read the last line. This time really understand what it says.
 
roy don't cut me no slack. at least we know what to with a law breaking Peruvian. and the worst sizz hole in Utah is better than any where in texas.
 
True colors right there boy. True colors! You make the Basin proud elkun.


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LAST EDITED ON May-08-14 AT 05:57PM (MST)[p]Roy , I'm sorry if my post got you worked up. And i do understand your upset about your friends situation . I most certainly didn't mean to offend. I was just giving my opinion, and while I usually enjoy reading your post's I am afraid I have to disagree with you about this thread. I think your personal feelings have clouded your judgment.
"be honest - do you think he can look at the photos of Pablo's face and truly feel proud of himself about it?"... Did I miss the part where the Officer claims to be proud of the outcome?
" But while we are on the subject - since when does having 14 traffic violations over a 20 year period (less than 1 per year, all of which are traffic/vehicle related and were either dismissed or the fine was paid- read the entire article please) equal the need for a cop to kick someone's ass? I'll bet I have at least that many myself in that same period of time (including one that was successfully defended ),if not more! Are you telling me then that the next time I get pulled over I should expect the officer to rough me up just because I am not a perfect driver?" Roy, All i said is I thought it made him a slow learner, Not that the officer was justified to do anything. And yes that many citations makes you both slow learners in my book.( I have had 4 in my life, over 30 years of driving)
"Sounds like fun!" - Oh yeah, slamming a 63 year old man into the pavement is a whole lot of fun!. Where was this quote from the officer... I only see you saying it?
After you calm down and read what YOUR accusations have been I think you might realize the conclusions you have jumped to might be based on your personal feelings and not facts.
 
How come I'm always Involved? (Bess's neck of the woods!)

They had a Peruvian/South of the Border/No Green Cards Round-Up here a few Months ago!

The National Un-Employment Rate went up 75% that Day!










[font color="red"]From My Smokin Cherry Red Hot Barrel & My Dead Cold Hands I Shall go down Fighting for American Pride & Rights!
I Know I'm Out Numbered by Pusssies & Brainwashed Democrats that'll Throw Their Hands in the air & I know I can't Lick the U.S. Military by Myself when they Turn on us but I'll make
you one Guarantee,They'll be Enduring a Situation where I Hope to Hell All Americans become True Americans once again & Stand up for their Rights!
 
don't tell roy that. all of his south of cali, buddies have green cards,,,ill bet Pablo has 5 or 6,,, , and you did buy the burritos .
 
I Bought the Burrito's in Hopes they were getting enough money rounded up to head back Home/South!

Now it's a Ritual on Friday Nights!








[font color="red"]From My Smokin Cherry Red Hot Barrel & My Dead Cold Hands I Shall go down Fighting for American Pride & Rights!
I Know I'm Out Numbered by Pusssies & Brainwashed Democrats that'll Throw Their Hands in the air & I know I can't Lick the U.S. Military by Myself when they Turn on us but I'll make
you one Guarantee,They'll be Enduring a Situation where I Hope to Hell All Americans become True Americans once again & Stand up for their Rights!
 
"he has been ticketed 14 times for a variety of traffic-related offenses,"
Hell that is easy to do, I got 4 on one traffic stop with a old trailer. Lic plate not in the right place(was mounted on fender)
Only had one safety chain, one light not working, no Vin # stamped into trailer. All Fix it tickets.
So having 14 of them isn't that hard with old stuff.
I agree with Roy, That officer must been afraid for his life.(#####) Maybe he can get a job with BLM.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]
 
>"he has been ticketed 14 times
>for a variety of traffic-related
>offenses,"
> Hell that is easy to
>do, I got 4 on
>one traffic stop with a
>old trailer. Lic plate not
>in the right place(was mounted
>on fender)
>Only had one safety chain, one
>light not working, no Vin
># stamped into trailer. All
>Fix it tickets.
>So having 14 of them isn't
>that hard with old stuff.
>
>I agree with Roy, That officer
>must been afraid for his
>life.(#####) Maybe he can get
>a job with BLM.
>
>"I have found if you go
>the extra mile it's Never
>crowded".
>>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>>the MM green signature club.[font/]
You must have been a gentleman about it and you didn't walk away from the officer.
 
While I agree with Roy on a pragmatic not political correct sense....Roy, you impugned yourself worse than Manny by starting out staging you would drop your two cents and be done. ;)

On a side note the guy could get his $hit together like everyone else. Just a thought. Now stop with the posts before Sage comes unhinged on "cops" littering the campfire with cop threads. ;)
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