I'm tired of playing the point game, anyone else?

flyingbrass

flyingbrass

Active Member
Messages
752
I'm tired of it. I ain't giving up. After the WY survey I received it just makes me realize that they can change anytime they want and our points get diluted to nothing. $100 for WY sheep does seem a bit steep but especially after they dilute the system again. Just saying I'm down a bit because it is really just about the money!
I spend about $1700 on points and the like which would pay for a DIY hunt. Antihunters with wolves is just another nail in the coffin. CWD ain't helping. Auction tags more common than a re gular tag. What is next?flyingbrass
cold dead hands
NRA Life Member
 
Up to several years ago, Wyoming was a great state to put in for hunts. I hunted there about 8 times for deer, antelope and elk.
Since then they have gotten greedy and raised the fees by a big margin. I have not put in for wyoming for the past 4 years and do not plan to hunt there again unless it changes for the better. They can raise the fees for the locals to make up the difference they will lose for NR hunters.

RELH
 
time to start hunting cows/does and small raghorns I guess. Or at least the time is near.
flyingbrass
cold dead hands
NRA Life Member
 
All states do the same thing, too many people and not enough game. Thats small potatoes compared to what Carter and his like have done to us, at least as far as being able to draw tags goes.
 
Great thing is we can "vote" with our participation.

This is last year I apply in ID and AK. I dropped out of WY moose and sheep last year. Next year is last apply in OR for anything as will burn my elk and pronghorn points. Why dropping out? Simply is too little opportunity to draw a quality hunt for the cost to participate in those state draws year after year.

Likely will drop UT sooner rather than later.

I will save about $700 a year from not buying those licenses and fees which goes a long way towards buying a NM pronghorn landowner tag or a CO mule deer landowner tag every few years if I get skunked in all my applications in AZ, WA, NM, NV, CO, MT (only sheep, goat, moose), KS (only deer) and WY (only deer, elk, pronghorn).
 
I have cut way back on what I put in for in other states. Unfortunately, i have invested a lot in some states and hate to drop out at this point.
I have dropped out of several irregardless of what I have invested over the last 12 years.

Luckily, I have a lot of local opportunity where I live.
 
Wy. has one of the most expensive point systems in the US! Just total up how much a premium tag actually costs & you might be surprised!

7 Mag
 
I now wish they would just do a random draw like NM and be done with it. I don't mind fronting fees and small application fees but I hate buying licenses and high dollar PP's like in WY, then they change the game.
The rules are fair as long as they don't change the rules.......................................kinda like a bully on the playground...........changing the rules when it will benefit their cause no matter how it affects others.
Again, make it more expensive if you must or whatever but don't change the rules!!!!!
flyingbrass
cold dead hands
NRA Life Member
 
I agree with you & feel your pain! I buy pp's for elk, deer & antelope but not moose or sheep, to expensive & takes to long to draw for me.

7 Mag
 
I'm with you flyingbrass, I gave up on AZ 2 years ago.
With the Bonus Pass Points Preference Poop it pretty much put the nails in the coffin for me. I only applied in NM this year and got me an Oryx Tag!!! No more points for me.
 
I'll jump in on this one.

I had 11 elk and 10 bison points in UT...done
I had 13 deer and 5 elk points in OR...done
I had 11 elk and 5 deer points in NV...done.

The last two on the list require the purchase of a license of which I did for all of those years. NV doesn't even give the tags to the folks with the most points! OR gives what few tags there are to outfitters sometimes. I have max deer and elk points in WY, but the wolves seem to be drawing elk tags every year.

I'm hoping my 14 deer points will work for CO this fall. Gotta get there before the wolves wipe them out.

I've been into swap hunting for many years. That's REALLY the way to go.
 
Oregon and Utah you could have burned your elk and deer pts before you quit. Colorado with 14 I hope you have a great hunt you could have hunted good units twice already and you would still be able to draw. I also am giving up on a lot of pts in some states do to unrealistic odds. I am trying to get out of Oregon but I cant quite catch up on the elk. Good luck!
 
I feel your pain. WY points system is worth it for antelope, but for everything else I think we are just wasting our money.

I was borderline on deciding to start putting in for OR, but after their big price increase last year I decided not to. I am so glad. I have been putting in for goats in MT, but quit this year. Odds just aren't that good, and I am sure it is only a matter of time before they double the price of non-resident goat tags. I am in the game in NV and AZ until I draw a deer tag and then I am out. I wish I hadn't started either of those. I would rather save all my application fees and go on a nice landowner hunt or African safari every 5 -8 years.

I think that Idaho was the first state to hit it, but the other western states aren't far behind in hitting the limit as to what most hunters are willing to give up in both money and time.

Dax
 
No question, the points are moving faster than Birthdays. Last year 15 was guaranteed for my elk area. This year 8 out of 29 with 15 drew.

I'm now looking at 2011 with 16 points.....but I'll only be 68 years old.
 
Yep. The point game is getting old for me too. Especially when you put in for multiple states for 2-4 people. Talk about expensive. I'm wondering if I got caught up in the "game?" And now I'm having a hard time justifying keeping going.

Will all these changes to the rules hurt every states' bottom line?

Will there be fewer and fewer people hunting?

Will only the richy-riches apply?

I'm too am sick of it. More than anything, I'm sick of them changing the rules/point structures. The cost of applying is a very close second. It is absolutely getting out of control.

HK
 
I had been increasing the number of states I applied for each year until about 5 years ago. About 40 total. Then I saw how badly many of my points were being dilluted as you say. I quit Idaho. Then I let my 8 WY sheep points go when the $100 started. Hangin on for moose as I am in top draw pool but still didn't draw. Quit 3 others. I want to see the 2010 stats in OR but will hope to use my 13 points to draw an elk tag then quit. Same for Utah and 13 deer points. I'm done with them and their 200 tag raid on NR tags for raffle. The deals in Nevada & WY for deer, elk odds are stretched to the breaking point.

Only ones looking like reasonable NR states are NM, AZ, CO.

I can understand why a guy would bail in some of these places like NV where after 10 years of points your odds for a sheep tag go from .1% to .2%.
 
my fear is i think the way the tags are getting so hard to get i believe its going to lead to a rise in poaching. i think the western states need to quit managing so hard for trophy quality and start giving out some more opportunity or people with get frustrated not being able to hunt year after year and will begin poaching!
its pretty hard to be an average joe and watch hundreds of tags each year go to the high bidder,instead of going to the people that actually have put in there dues in the waiting game.
 
Im about through in a few states also, in fact the whole scene is getting a bit old. The different state wildlife departments have a problem that doesn't really have a fix. Actually the single biggest blame belongs to the outfit that goes far and wide to say to everyone, apply,apply and apply.
 
LAST EDITED ON May-20-10 AT 07:57PM (MST)[p]Wow! I didn't realize so many guys were spending that much money on points every year......seems like a sickness that got out of control. What was the change in rules in Wy, that has everyone bummed out?
 
Yep. Sickness is about right. Points have turned out to be the hunter's meth. It seems as if we can no longer fathom a random draw. Everyone wants a point instead of just an unsuccessful notice. Really sad that it's the younger generation that is getting the short end of the stick.
 
This is a great thread. I am glad I am not the only one that feels this way.

You are almost better saving your money and buying a rez tag or a landowner tag in the states that have them.

Every year I cut back on the states and species I apply for. This year was the most drastic.

Hunting one time in one unit in one state is not all its cracked up to be. Over the years I have looked back on my hunts and regarding the hunts I have enjoyed the most.

On a scale of 1-10 DIY on my own in an area I can scout and hunt at least a few times in 10 years. 9

Guided out of state hunts maybe a 4.

Out of state hunts not guided maybe a 6-7

I got to thinking WTH am I wasting my money for.
 
States that want to charge me for a hunting license BEFORE I can draw a tag will not see my money. More and more states are pricing me out of hunting. I still play the points game in CO., but after I burn my elk points I will not chase the high point units anymore. Sad to say but I see the end of hunting as we know it coming. Looks like we are going back to a system our forefathers left Europe to escape, one where only the wealthy/priviledged class can afford to hunt. I really feel sorry for my kids and grandchildren.

Phantom Hunter
 
Phantom I agree with you.

However, not only have we made it expensive to hunt, we have also made it very complicated.

A young hunter now must have a mentor to teach him how to apply months ahead of the hunt, what licenses to have, habitat stamps, conservation tags, on and on.

A kid just wanting to go hunting and he does not have someone to handle the "nuts and bolts" of it, he will never be able to experience it.

I do not think this will change. This makes it more important that we mentor young hunters besides just our own kids.
 
I got into UT late but it payed off this year.
I have 8 in AZ and should get my HS point this summer. After I draw I'll be done there too. Just too many people ahead of me.
WY will then be my only point state.
 
States have figured us out pretty good, they now have a great revenue stream and it doesn't cost them any resources. As for myself I am very selective as to what states I put in for and the cost to put in, in return I expect to get a good return and draw a tag in the near future, some states are a complete joke, for example WA you pay $60 a point for a NR yet your draw odds are basically 1 in a 1000 best case for an OIL species. They are laughing all the way to the bank knowing most guys will never draw the tag but will pay them $60 a year for 10,20, 30 years for a point.
 
With point creep, sometimes apply for a lesser known area. Some units you will never catch.
Don't throw away your points, apply and get a tag, go hunting.
 
>With point creep, sometimes apply for
>a lesser known area. Some
>units you will never catch.
>
>Don't throw away your points, apply
>and get a tag, go
>hunting.


100% agree. I cringe when I hear people that have 11 points, say they are quiting on the draw. Just cash your points in on an easier to draw unit and go hunt. All LE elk units in Utah have potential for a good bull...
 
The real "sucker" is when you are "one point out". 12 years ago, I was 3 points out. I've gradually crept up to 1 point out. Eight out of my group of 29 drew. That left 21 of us out. Adding the folks next year that didn't actually apply for a license this year, it will still not be a guarantee next year.

Birthdays come every year.
 
Hey don't be mad at the states they do what they can. Put the blame where it belongs. The Hunting Fools that are supporting the magazines and tags services who's main focus is to get more people to put in and pay them so they can buy their hunts are to blame. Without all the publicity the odds would still be low enough to draw a tag somewhere in the west. I feel your frustration As of this year I have a total of 126 bonus points in various western states not to mention putting in the states that don't have points every year.
My last draw tag was 2002 before that I drew 1 or 2 tags somewhere every year. I drew New Mexico archery elk almost every year with odds of 1 in 2. That was before 10,000 Hunting Fools started putting in for the draws.
 
>Hey don't be mad at the
>states they do what they
>can. Put the blame where
>it belongs. The Hunting Fools
>that are supporting the magazines
>and tags services who's main
>focus is to get more
>people to put in and
>pay them so they can
>buy their hunts are to
>blame. Without all the publicity
>the odds would still be
>low enough to draw a
>tag somewhere in the west.
>I feel your frustration As
>of this year I have
>a total of 126 bonus
>points in various western states
>not to mention putting in
>the states that don't have
>points every year.
>My last draw tag was 2002
>before that I drew 1
>or 2 tags somewhere every
>year. I drew New Mexico
>archery elk almost every year
>with odds of 1 in
>2. That was before 10,000
>Hunting Fools started putting in
>for the draws.


Do we want LESS hunters? I prefer more hunters participating and voting to protect hunting. I understand the frustration when demand exceeds tag supply but want lots of hunters.
 
>>Hey don't be mad at the
>>states they do what they
>>can. Put the blame where
>>it belongs. The Hunting Fools
>>that are supporting the magazines
>>and tags services who's main
>>focus is to get more
>>people to put in and
>>pay them so they can
>>buy their hunts are to
>>blame. Without all the publicity
>>the odds would still be
>>low enough to draw a
>>tag somewhere in the west.
>>I feel your frustration As
>>of this year I have
>>a total of 126 bonus
>>points in various western states
>>not to mention putting in
>>the states that don't have
>>points every year.
>>My last draw tag was 2002
>>before that I drew 1
>>or 2 tags somewhere every
>>year. I drew New Mexico
>>archery elk almost every year
>>with odds of 1 in
>>2. That was before 10,000
>>Hunting Fools started putting in
>>for the draws.
>
>
>Do we want LESS hunters? I
>prefer more hunters participating and
>voting to protect hunting. I
>understand the frustration when demand
>exceeds tag supply but want
>lots of hunters.

Bingo!!!!


We cant have our cake and eat it to.
 
We can have our cake and eat it too. Just have to buy the tags like I have since 2002. The difference is I buy them from non-profit organizations that support wildlife not a private enterprise (for profit)that supports their own hunting habits. It takes votes and MONEY heavy on the money.
 
I am at -1. 50:50 shouldn't be huge to me, and WY is slow...I bet it isn't going to change anytime too soon...

I was sort of expecting a change just as I got in position to draw from the very start. I have never liked points for stuff that has real poor draw odds. They are cool for stuff that regularly rolls over, I love them in CO for deer and elk:) The guys who choose to wait for the "best" CO elk and deer units loss is my gain......

I figured I'd likely draw WY sheep before they changed when they upped the points to $100. Not so sure now...The real benifactors have been the top pool of the Ponzi-pyramid scheme, nonresidents in my pool wishing to take a wilderness unit (and be forced to hire an outfitter) pretty much all could have had tags by this year too...The guys a point or two behind are really SOL (you know what the survey results will be...eventually). Playing by the rules with no chance, assuming the rules will stay the same. Of course, you know what you do when you ass u me something:)

Not sure what my point is...but guess I'm in for WY sheep whatever they do now...
 
Like it or not, the only sure thing is that you won't draw if you don't apply - and I plan to keep on applying for as many as I can. I've had my hands on limited-draw elk tags in 6 of the last 7 years and the points I've built (deer, elk, sheep, etc) in other states have me positioned well for limited-draw hunts for the next 5 or more. You don't always have to apply for the "world's best" unit to have a good hunt.
 

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