Idaho application question

[Mike27]

This may be a silly question but I want to make sure I am applying properly. I have a friend that lives in Idaho and he has invited me out to hunt elk if I can draw a tag. Do most of you that are fortunate enough to draw a tag then go ahead and purchase a general season deer tag to do a combo hunt?

If I can draw a bull tag in a controlled hunt drawing (long odds I know) I figured I might as well hunt deer too. I just want sure if I should wait to see if I get the elk tag first before sending more money for the deer tag. If someone could set me straight on what is best I would appreciate it. Thanks. Mike

 

[BQHIdaho]

Mike,
If in fact you do draw an elk tag, depending upon what region, their are a limited number of deer tags given to non residents. This especally is the case in SE Idaho. Deer typically do not like to be near elk. The elk normally run them out. I guess it depends on where you are going to hunt. If deer are in abundunce, sure. However read the regs very carefully on the deer. Alot of the units have different season lenghts, and antler restrictions. Elk seasons normally do not run along with deer seasons, for obvious reasons. Just depends on what unit you are hunting elk.... Good hunting!

 

[htnfool]

There are a limited quota of general tags for a non-resident. They are divided up between the southwest units and the rest of Idaho. The fish and game website will give you an up to date number of what is left for tags, for Elk and deer. These are for general hunts only. Idaho residents can purchase a non-res tag after Aug 28th, I believe, if there are any leftover. These tags will sell out by the end of October on a normal year. They sold out last year. Good luck in drawing.

 

[Mike27]

BHQ My friend lives in Challis. My understanding is that we would hunt unit 37 for both deer and elk. I believe the deer would be a general tag and would run closely with the season in that unit. He didnt think the wolves have been as much of a problem there as in some of the other units to the north. If anyone has some general info on that unit they would like to share that would be great. Our plan (for deer anyways) was to pack in early in the morning and get up high and glass. And then glass some more. Mike

 

[BQHIdaho]

Mike,
I hunt elk up there also in 37. Elk and people are hard to come by. Thats why i like it up there. You have picked the hardest place to hunt in idaho. Steep, rugged, and unforgiving.. makes me want to go hunting up there just talking about it. The deer numbers in 37 are very low. The season only lasts about a week for deer. I haven't seen a buck in 37 for about 4 years. I keep an eye out for them during elk season, but only have seen doe's lately. Last year while hunting elk in 37 it snowed, rained, and the wind blew like hell. The only elk we were able to even get a chance on were at about 9800 ft high in deep snow. Needless to say, no shots were taken. The odds of an elk and a deer are slim. If I were you, i'd concentrate on the elk, forget the deer in 37. Give um hell!

 

[Mike27]

Oh Lord BHQ what have I gotten myself into? He indicated the terrain was tough and that I should spend a full 4 months on the nordic trac before I make the drive out. I will do as you say and concentrate on the elk if I pull a tag. Thanks for the replies. Good luck to you on your fall hunts. I wish you great success. Mike

 

[BQHIdaho]

As to you... just a word of advise... put a pack on and load it down with dead wieght and hike some hills with your rifle that you will use. You are going to the highest points in Idaho. Mt. Borah is at about 12,660 ft. You'll understand when you get there. I will try to find a picture of Borah's range and show it to you. The mountains are straight up, no give to them. But that in itself is the challange that most love about hunting their. We stopped hunting deer in 37 several years ago because of the low number of bucks. There are many wolves in the Pashimori range. Trust me, i've seen them. I have even seen them take down a doe and an antelope. I know, an antelope!

The range starts at the east bank of the Salmon River, at an elevation of about 5000 feet (1525 m). It quickly rises to Grouse Creek Mountain (11,085 ft, 3378 m) and Dickey Peak (11,141 ft, 3395 m), and then descends to Double Springs Pass, location of one of just two roads to cross the range. Nearby is an interpretive site explaining the effects of the magnitude 6.9 Borah Peak Earthquake that hit the range on October 28, 1983. The Big Lost River Valley fell and the Lost River Range rose, leaving a fault scarp of up to 14 feet (5 m) along the base of the mountains.


Borah Peak, Idaho, looking east (note 1983 earthquake fault).

The range then rises into its high central section, which includes many of the state's highest peaks. Borah Peak, the highest, climbs to 12,662 feet (3859 m). Further south are Mount Idaho (12,065 ft, 3677 m), Leatherman Peak (12,228 ft, 3727 m), Mount Church (over 12,200 ft, 3720 m), Mount Breitenbach (12,140 ft, 3700 m), and Lost River Mountain (12,078 ft, 3681 m).

IF YOU LOOK AT THE PIC IN THE MIDDLE, THE TALLEST PEAK ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE PIC IS MOUNT BORAH. PRETTY HUH...

 

[Mike27]

BHQ those are great pics! I guess the words that come to mind are shock and awe. I printed a map off the internet so I could orientate myself to where these peaks are at. My hunting partner had told me that he sees mountain goats when Chukar hunting and I can see why. That is certainly not the type of elk country I usually see on the outdoor channel and looks more like a page out of a mountain climbing magazine. I have a lot to learn. Let me ask you this. Do you typically pack in and camp out or do you just start your day really early and return late? Mike

 

[BQHIdaho]

We have to camp. However we ruff it. No campers, warm beds, or showers. Thats what makes it fun! Walking your hiny off up and down those mountains is what keeps bringing us back!

 

[Salmonfg]

If your partner is seeing mountain goats, he's not hunting in unit 37. Bighorn sheep - yes, but no goats in the Lost Rivers. Goats are common on the next range to the north (Lemhi Range - which is covered by 37A, 29, 51, and 58). The part of the Lost Rivers south of Doublespring Pass on east side of range is in unit 51 and on the west side you're in unit 50 from Willow Cr summit (just north of Doublespring) all the way south to Arco. The photos BHQ provided are actually of unit 50 (at least the last 2). In the middle pic, 37 is on the back side of the range to the left (north and east). (If you can see the fault scarp, you're looking at 50.)

The Lost River Range is quite dry. Elk numbers are well above objective, but the density is not as high as some areas (because it is dry country, capacity for elk is lower than some surrounding areas). Deer numbers are below levels from several years ago and deer may well be impacted by elk numbers (which are much higher now than when deer numbers were higher). Nonetheless, 37 has been averaging about 240 deer hunters harvesting about 100 bucks for a 41% success rate and 35% of the bucks 4-point or larger.

Tom Keegan
IDFG Salmon Region Wildlife Manager

 

[BQHIdaho]

Gee Tom, confuse the out of stater a little more would ya. I was showing him the only pics of the region that are avalible. I can tell you he is looking at 37. 37 doesn't start until you hit double springs pass. Donkey Hills cuts off 37 and in pic 1 and 2 he is looking at part of unit 37 to the right side. I had a conservation officer draw the boundries for me on my idaho land map that shows every road, trail, and creek in the area just because the unit boundaries are so hard to figure out. You did not mention to him Christian Gulch or Grouse peak. I am telling you straight up, there were NO elk in Christian Gulch last elk season. We hiked all the way back into the saddles and saw no tracks anywhere up that place. Later in the week, we went to Grouse peak and saw a lame bull that had been shot in the leg. I would love to know just where you are getting your numbers for the deer. You guys make it look like idaho is doing so well with its deer. then why i ask is the season so short in 37? if the deer numbers are sooo good, run the season from the 10th to the 31st just like some of the other units. Also tell mike about the wolf pack that is established in unit 37 and how they drove the antelope out and how they chase the elk and deer like crazy. How do you get the number 240 for hunters... Have a gps unit on everyone that goes up there? If the elk numbers are well above capacity, then why do you say the density is not good? Then shouldn't the numbers be lower if the density is low? Your right the deer numbers have gone down the toilet because of elk pushing them out because there range has been widend by the wolves in double springs. Have you seen a wolf in 37? I have, i've seen so many i have lost count. You better believe thats were i will be with a wolf tag just as quick as i can get one. I am telling you what the average hunter sees in the unit. And I have seen a mountain goat up christian gulch, must have come over from 37A. I have on occasion run into a forest service guy up in 37 checking on the sheep and he tells all of us the same thing i told you. Elk are scattered, deer numbers are low and the wolves have driven out the antelope and are pushing the elk like crazy. Maybe HE lied to us.. doubt it. People also lie all the time about where they shoot there critters. They don't want to tell you there honeyhole. I worked at the check station in Inkom several years back and watched person after person lie about where they had been. Wanna know how i know they were lying, because i passed there rigs parked while i was leaving my house. That is why i don't trust your numbers and also because of what I SEE and what other hunters tell me about the area.

 

[BQHIdaho]

LAST EDITED ON May-27-08 AT 03:17PM (MST)[p]http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/User_files/483c706d271cbca8.jpg

HERE ARE THE EXPLINATIONS OF THE PICS AND BOUNDARIES MIKE, IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, FEEL FREE TO ASK. NOTICE ALL THE ROADS IN THE UNIT, NO WONDER PEOPLE GET CONFUSED ABOUT WHERE THEY ARE AT. EVEN F&G IS CONFUSED. AND A FISH AND GAME OFFICER EVEN DREW THE BOUNDARIES WITH A PEN FOR ME. I WONDER WHICH F&G GUY IS WORNG....

pic one is of Double springs pass to mohogany creek.

pic two is of Donkey Hills

pic three is of Ellis to Challis to Gooseberry creek

pic four is of May to Summit Res. to Donkey Hills to Gooseberry Creek

 

[Salmonfg]

I apologize, the 2nd photo is the upper (south) end of 37. I was confused by the refernce to the fault scarp which, to my knowledge, only appears on the Unit 50 side of the range. Is that not the fault scarp in the 3rd photo?

"You guys make it look like idaho is doing so well with its deer. then why i ask is the season so short in 37? if the deer numbers are sooo good, run the season from the 10th to the 31st just like some of the other units."

I did not intend to imply the deer numbers in 37 are "good." I simply provided average harvest data (2004-2006) as provided by hunters on their mandatory harvest report forms. The location data on the forms is only down to the unit level (not drainage or peaks, as is usually collected at check stations). But you are correct, the data is only as good as the information provided by hunters. If hunters choose to provide inaccurate information about the unit of harvest or animals taken, then the end result is also inaccurate and management becomes more difficult. With a few exceptions, the general season structure in all the front-range units in the Salmon Region has been quite consistent (within the region) for quite a few years. Salmon Region has always had a shorter season than the rest of Idaho. The primary reasons are public opposition to running the season to the end of October and consistently higher winter fawn mortality (based on radiocollared fawns since 1998) than other parts of the state.

"If the elk numbers are well above capacity, then why do you say the density is not good? Then shouldn't the numbers be lower if the density is low?"

I did not mean to imply a judgement value about elk density. The objective is relatively low because 1) the capacity of the land is lower than better habitat in some areas, and 2) elk damage to agricultural interests has been a long-standing issue in that area. Elk numbers and elk density are lower in 37 than, for example, the north end of the Lemhi range. At last count, I estimated almost 3,100 elk in the north Lemhis compared to about 1,350 in 37. The current density in the north Lemhis is about 50% higher because the habitat is of higher quality for elk. The elk numbers in 37 should probably be about 1/2 the current level to balance the number of elk with the habitat capacity.

"And I have seen a mountain goat up christian gulch, must have come over from 37A."

Thanks for the observation. I should have been more precise in my statement. There have been 2 sightings that I know of (yours makes 3) of a lone mountain goat in the Lost River Range. The range is not considered occupied mountain goat range. I was simply trying to make the point for Mike27 that there may be some confusion about unit numbers/areas if his hunting partner "sees mountain goats when Chukar hunting" because that description is extremely unlikely in unit 37; that perhaps his partner is actually referring to 37A. I should have made the point more clearly.

My participation on this forum is simply to provide the best information I can for hunters. I apologize for the error in photo #2/unit correlation.

Tom Keegan
IDFG Salmon Region Wildlife Manager

 

[BQHIdaho]

LAST EDITED ON May-27-08 AT 06:53PM (MST)[p]I WAS BEGINING TO GET WORRIED THAT I HAD BEEN HUNTING IN THE WRONG UNIT.. GAVE ME A SCARE! THAT IS WHY I PUT UP THE TOPO PHOTOS OF THE UNTIT BOUNDARIES. THE GAME OFFICER THAT PENNED THE BOUNDARIES ON MY MAP IS FROM THE SE REGION OFFICE AND I WAS BEGINING TO WORRY HE DIDN'T DO IT RIGHT. THE ROADS UP THERE TWIST AND TURN SO MUCH THAT THE BOUNDARIES ARE CONFUSING. I DIDN'T WANT THESE GUYS HUNTING THE WRONG AREA INCASE THEY WERE NOT FAMILLIAR WITH IT AS I AM. I LOVE THAT COUNTRY UP THERE! I'LL DO ALL I CAN TO PROTECT IT FOR THE FUTURE! THERE IS NOTHING MORE SPECTACULAR THAN SEEING THOSE MOUNTAINS RISING STRAIGHT UP INTO THE SKY! AWESOME!! RIDING HORSES IN THERE IS THE BEST WAY TO TRAVEL IN MY OPINION! I HATE BUYING THE WEED FREE HAY THOUGH. YEP THAT IS THE DICKEY SIDE OF BORAH IN THE LAST PIC. I THOUGHT HE MIGHT WANT TO SEE HOW MT. BORAH LOOKS FROM THE SIDE HE MAY BE COMING IN. SEEING IT FOR THE FIRST TIME CAN BE A LITTLE OVERWHELMING FOR SOME. IT WAS FOR ME. I THOUGHT, "OH GOODNESS, ELK UP THERE, WE'LL SEE IF I LAST ONE DAY!"

 

[Mike27]

I will ask him where has seen the goats. Im pretty sure he said goats but I may be confused on exactly which unit he hunts Chukars. BQH I called my partner yesterday and concerning where we would hunt and he mentioned "pockets" north of Borah. It sounds like you are probably very familar with the areas that he is talking about. I dont know exactly how he plans on hunting it. Thank you very much for the maps. I will look them over closely. More later. Mike

 

[BQHIdaho]

I KNOW WHERE HE IS TALKING. HAVE A HORSE ON STANDBY IF YOU HUNT UP THERE. A GUY I KNOW SHOT A BULL ELK UP NEAR THERE AND IT TOOK HIM 3 DAYS TO PACK IT OUT. YIKES! ALSO, HAVE REALLY GOOD TIRES AND A RELIABLE VEHICLE. THE ROAD IS BAD!!! YOU WILL SEE WHAT I MEAN. WE RIDE HORSES ALL OVER IN THAT COUNTRY EVERY YEAR, SO WE GET TO SEE MORE THAN THE AVERAGE PERSON ON FOOT. WE COVER ALOT MORE GROUND. LET ME KNOW IF I CAN HELP. NICE TO SEE GOOD PEOPLE HUNT AND ENJOY THE AREA!!

 

[Mike27]

I checked with my partner and I was incorrect on where he has seen the goats. He said he has not seen any in 37 but he has seen them north of Custer. BQH good luck on the draw this year. If I manage to draw a tag I will let you know. Thanks for all the info. Take care. Mike

 

[BQHIdaho]

Same to you Mike. Now if we can survive the agony of waiting until July to find out if we drew a tag. Even if you don't draw a tag, just being in that unit and seeing those mountains is worth a trip just to camp or hike. Good luck!

 

[Mike27]

BQH unfortunately I did not draw a bull elk tag for unit 37. However my Idaho resident partner did get his. He is trying to convince me to make the drive out and still give it a go for mulies. It sounds like a tough unit to even get a small buck. I hope you were able to draw your tags. Mike

 

[tfal72]

typically the seasons dont run in limbo