I Was Robbed, Or Did They?

C

cactusjack7mm

Guest
Feb.12,2013 It was a cold snowy day. Its the day of the Arizona draw dead line. I rushed to the computer to apply. I try to apply and the site page crashes. I go back hurry fill that page out and to the next. I fill out that page and that page crashes, so I go back. That happen over and over again. It took me 1 hour to complete the app.
End of march rolled around and I have a credit card charge from Arizona. Yee Haw I'm going to Arizona to hunt a bull in 9 or 10 early. A couple of days go by and start thinking this is two good to be true. I only had 7 points. I start checking the units I applied for. Holly SH** my second choice was entered with the wrong number.1st choice #3130 2nd choice #3131 you enter those numbers for an hour strait and you"ll probably enter your 2nd choice #3031(COW) like I did.
It looks like I robbed myself,or did I? I've called and talk to the supervisors. I have to petition the commission.
They can keep my money but dont take my points. If they dont work with me I will wash my hands of Arizona never to put in again. Now who really lost out if I dont get my points back?

7 yrs.x $150=$1050
1 Cow Tag= $500
Toatal investment=$1550

Arizona gives me back my points
15-30 more yrs.of points X $150=?
That's not counting my 3 sons who will be hunting soon. That will be a lot more money for them.

Looks like Arizona will rob them selves!!!

P.S Arizona, your app,rules,regs suck *ss
Where does Arizona get off charging $500 for a Cow anyways.
 
Well you did it to yourself. I'm sorry it happened to you but I also hope you don't get your points back either. The last thing az needs is everyone doing this when they don't get the tag they want! I really do feel for you but it wasn't azgfd fault.


I just call em as I see em!
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-06-13 AT 09:14AM (MST)[p]Just another person who blames everybody but themselves for screwing up. I would say this one falls in the old "a day late and a dollar short" adage, only he's out a "little more" than that. How in the world does he think they will listen to an argument like that when everyone could pull that. File earlier, check your application a number of times, and quit blaming others for your failures!
 
it really is your fault, why would you wait until the absolute last minute to apply ( like so many do ) and have to worry about the site working. Its the same thing every year with any online system, the ppl that wait til the last day there are so many on at once that it crashes the site, some are unable to apply at all cuz of it.
 
I know its my fault! I knew I would get the web site tough guys to respond. Arizona claims the need more money. Do you think this is benefiting them?
 
If I invested 7 years and $1550 in a cow elk tag I think I would do a full body mount.

That is a bummer, and I do feel bad for you.

Eel
 
Keep my money reinstate my point and we both benefit. All I'm saying is I dont agree with the no surrender rule.
 
I was permit#00003 does that mean two other people had more points than me?
 
What happens when you guys draw your dream tag and get into a severe car accident and cant hunt that year? Ya, your clucked!
 
Wash your hands of Arizona and don't look back. In fact Arizona could stand to lose quite a few more out of state hunters.
 
OK, a serious reply. Does Arizona have a rule that lets you return your tag for a refund and reinstate your points? Like for a health issue?

To answer your question, sure the State will lose money if you quit, but I'm sure that won't be a valid argument for getting your points back, and will not influence them in the least.

Eel
 
Keep my money for punishment reinstate my points. It's a win win solution for them.
 
One reason I will not play the points game with any state. It is outright theft. You might as well hand your wallet to the that state's game dept.

RELH
 
Why should they change an entire system just because of your screwup? You are but one little fish in the pond and for them to do what you are asking would cause them all kinds of problems that they don't need for the few bucks you represent in their system! Suck it up and go kill a cow.
 
Why would I pay $500 in gas and drive 7 hrs. for a cow. I can buy a landowner tag and hunt in my back yard for that.
 
Top Gun, how many people do you think try or want to surrender a tag each year? How many customers do they lose each year? 20 more year of putting in at $150 a year plus the tag fee when I draw that comes to $3,500. How many people have they pissed off because of that rule and dont put in any more? 100 maybe 500 You do the math. Before you reply answer my questions then you can web site tough guy me.
 
Keep my money for punishment reinstate my points. That would be good problem to have for Arizona, dont ya think TOPGUN?
 
Actually you make a solid argument cactusjack7mm. It benefits no one to treat people like you who made an honest mistake that way.

I think it would be ok to make a provision to allow a person a mulligan on the application. They keep your money, no tag, and reinstate your points, within a certain deadline. I'd be ok with that.

Eel
 
Your mistake and the rules are clear...the AZGF cannot be responsible for your lack of paying attention.

I'd suggest:

1. Dont wait until the last minute to put in for your tags. Every year...and I mean every year, people wait and then are "shocked" that the computers are bogged down the last hour.

2. Check...and then re-check...and then have somone else check the apps before you hit the submit button.

3. You should have already drawn a different tag. You were still a long, long, long time from ever drawing an early rifle rut tag in unit 9 or 10. In fact, you may never draw with the 20% preference pass combined with up to 10% NR cap.

Finally, rather than throw your sucker in the dirt, stomp your feet, and hold your breath...consider doing the following with your cow tag:

1. Take a nice trip, enjoy the country, enjoy the hunt and make the best of it. There are lots of people that WISH they could have the opportunity, time, health, and resources to hunt elk, even a cow elk.

2. Donate your tag to AZ Hunt-of-a-Lifetime.

Suck it up...make the most of the situation and learn from it. Move on and start rebuilding your points.

Its not the end of the world.
 
My Dad did the same thing a couple years ago. Burned 6 points on a cow tag. Used the guide book from the year before and assumed the hunt numbers were the same. He ended up donating the tag to Hunt of a lifetime. They were thrilled to get it. I would suggest either donating it to Hunt of a Lifetime of taking one of your children or grandchildren and letting them shoot an elk.
 
Hey CactusJack,

Does it feel like its "Your" wildlife now?


You know what happens when you go apply for food stamps and you don't fill in the blanks correctly? You know what happens when you file papers incorrectly for government housing? This is the system yall all wanted and are fighting for. Now you are surprised that a government run system has no humanity or understanding??????? What do you expect? Government employees have a saying for people like you. "Can't hear him crying from my porch".
 
Jack,your'e not going to get much sympathy from this crowd,and every time i read something like this it just makes me appreciate the fact that Idaho doesn't have pref. points! Like some have said suck it up,use it, or donate it to a kid,there are no coincidences in life,and it would make some new hunters dream come true..
 
I have already come terms with my self that I have a 1% chance of getting my points back. Got to try, right. Yes I will donate it. I'm shocked to see only one person doesn't like the no surrender rule. You should all be worried about this rule. There are many reasons why you may have to surrender a tag, health, funeral for a loved one, lost your job, ect. There will be a day where one of you have to surrender a tag and pray it's not in Arizona.
 
>I have already come terms with
>my self that I have
>a 1% chance of getting
>my points back. Got to
>try, right. Yes I will
>donate it. I'm shocked to
>see only one person doesn't
>like the no surrender rule.
>You should all be worried
>about this rule. There are
>many reasons why you may
>have to surrender a tag,
>health, funeral for a loved
>one, lost your job, ect.
>There will be a day
>where one of you have
>to surrender a tag and
>pray it's not in Arizona.
>


THAT'S THE SADDEST STORY IV'E HEARD ALL DAY!!
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-06-13 AT 12:35PM (MST)[p]I wonder if a 12 year old would be asking to have the rules changed...

"I was permit#00003 does that mean two other people had more points than me?"

Equal to or more.
 
Ya, I'm pissed off and feel robbed. I feel like going down to Arizona and shooting a $1,500 Elk!!! No wonder poachers are out there.
 
cactusjackass - you should have left well enough alone at post 21. We all make mistakes from time to time, but it seems like more and more these days people are not willing to take personal responsibility for their actions and the outcome. AZGFD cannot make you a poacher. Only you can do that.
 
Let just end it. I screwed the pouch, I didn't know about the no surrender rule until after the fact. I dont like the rule and if they dont fix the rule I choose not to participate in any kind of wildlife hunt they got to offer. That's the choice I have made.
 
"There are many reasons why you may have to surrender a tag, health, funeral for a loved one, lost your job, ect. There will be a day where one of you have to surrender a tag and pray it's not in Arizona. "


This is the best one yet. Don't pray for good health, your loved ones, or employment. PRAY FOR YOUR ELK TAG! Yes in all those instances my elk tag is my priority. Like many welfare recipiants you are losing touch with what is important.
 
First off I really do sympathize with your situation, got rejected a few years back on a rifle 13b tag because they said I didn't sign the application. I drew but was rejected. Lost my loyalty plus that years point, I was pissed as well.

But.....it was my own fault.

I hate the surrender rule like Utah has, it's a joke and IMHO is the most abused rule out there when it comes to hunting. Most people turn tags back in because they can't find a trophy they feel they deserve, not illness or injuries. Yes some people do have catastrophic reasons for not being able to use the tags, but 99.9% of the time it's selfish.

You can pass it on to one of your kids or grand kids in az.


I just call em as I see em!
 
I for one am on your side, if I made the same mistake I would feel robbed and cheated. If the a azgf get your money then I don't see a problem with you keeping your points. I know a guy here in Wyoming that lost 17 points when he made the mistake of applying for a cow moose. He will most likely will never get a bull moose tag in Wyoming now. I hope your petition works out and you get your points back. If you do not get your points back donate the tag. Never state you feel like poaching on the internet or anywhere else, it reflects very badly on self image. Conduct yourself like a gentleman, that will give you the best chance at getting those points back. I feel bad for you because I know how mad I would be in your situation. Good Luck
 
I got out of the points circus after only a few years. Realized what a rip off it actually is. AZ is one of the worst. Save my money for AK or other OTC trips.
 
I am truly sorry about your luck. That being said there should be no surrender of your tag. The regulations are crystal clear, and you have 0% chance of getting your points back....nor should there be!
 
Cactus,

Too bad this happened. Everyone that is coming down on you are just glad that there is one less guy ahead of them. I would go down and take the cow if it were me. All the negative responses tell the true character of the poster. Cows taste better any way. Good luck, I hope you get your points back.
 
If you want something changed, how about the application..?? I mean, who wants to remember a number to enter..?? Seems like it should be easy peasy to have all the hunts possible listed by species, sex, and season - then all you do is click on a little bubble next to the one you want... No Number Required.

Thank you Utah for at least having that... :)

"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24
 
It is what it is. You are screwed. It is closer to $600, not $500...

I certainly don't see what harm there would be in changing the system to allow you to return the tag and get your points back with no refund up till some reasonable time. If they reissued it to next in line who wants it, the effect on the point pools would be negligible, the department could take in more money and there would be two more satisfied customers each time.
 
I've never seen someone so disappointed about drawing a tag to go kill an animal. You should go down there with family and friends, enjoy the hunt, take the camera and film some big bulls while your there. Make a vacation out of it and just enjoy being out there in gods country with good company. When your all done, you'll come back with a frezer full of elk meat. Sounds like a win win to me. Quit your crying and make the best of YOUR mistake!
 
I'm with you guys about people surrendering there tags just before a hunt because they cant find a trophy.
Being able to surrender a tag is a good right to have if used ethically.

How many people would like to have more hunting rights?
I'm thinking of starting a online petition.
 
I'm going to make the best of MY mistake.
I'm going to try everything I can to get US more rights as hunters.
 
Ive never understood why so many wait until the last day or even last two days to get their application in. Obviously many do it or the website wouldn't keep crashing. I can usually get my application in the first week. I hope many hunters on here who do wait til the last minute that read this thread learn a lesson from Cactus' mistake.

Like others have posted on here...get your app in ealier and double and triple check your app before submitting it.

Make the best of your situation and either go enjoy a cow hunt with family and friends or donate it. That's what I'd do in your shoes.

But don't be mad or irritated at others when it was your mistake.
Good luck and keep us posted with the outcome of it all.


Theodore Roosevelt's guidance concerning
conservation...
"The movement for the conservation of wildlife,
and the conservation of all our natural resources,
are essentially democratic in spirit,purpose and
method."

"We do not intend that our natural resources shall
be exploited by the few against the interests of the
majority. Our aim is to preserve our natural
resources for the public as a whole, for the
average man and the average woman who make
up the body of the American people."

"It is in our power...to preserve game..and to give
reasonable opportunities for the exercise of the
skill of the hunter,whether he is or is not a man of
means."
 
It was your mistake & like many have said you should've got your app in sooner!!! Don't apply in az anymore There are plenty of guys including myself who would like to have one less guy applying for a tag in az. There should be no surrender rule it is what it is!! I would go on the cow hunt learn the country & keep applying & building points up.
You have a chance to draw every year I drew a good late rifle in 2011 with 1 point & drew same tag again in 2012. I didn't draw this year, but oh well building points & will hunt somewhere else till I draw az again. Just my 2 cents.
 
>One reason I will not play
>the points game with any
>state. It is outright theft.
>You might as well hand
>your wallet to the that
>state's game dept.
>>RELH

***How in the world do you think that GIVING money to the state for PPs is outright theft? People open up their wallets and GIVE that money to try to move up the line to go on a hunt. Nobody is forcing them to give it up for Pete's sake!
 
>I'm with you guys about people
>surrendering there tags just before
>a hunt because they cant
>find a trophy.
>Being able to surrender a tag
>is a good right to
>have if used ethically.
>
> How many
>people would like to have
>more hunting rights?
> I'm thinking
>of starting a online petition.


***Good luck on that, as on this thread alone it doesn't appear that you've hardly had a handful of people that support changing the rule.
>
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-07-13 AT 01:20PM (MST)[p]It is a bummer and I feel your pain. Disappointment tends to suck, regardless of why it happened. You did make a mistake and I can see the pros and cons of the changes. Don't have a dog in this fight. Make the best of the situation you now have. Many of us either don't have the cash or the time available to hunt out of state, but probably would if we could. I lean toward those that are saying, go down there anyway. The money is spent, the points are gone. Antlers are out of the picture, but hunting is still hunting. See some great country, take some pics, get some great meat... If you can share with someone that would enjoy it, all the better.
 
I drew a coveted tag after applying but ended up in Cancer treatment 3 1/2 months before the hunt. All I could do was try . Sorry to hear it but when you deal with data input you better be diligent and precise.
 
So here are my thoughts.....
I happen to be in the same, but not so sucky boat this year. My mistake put wrong hunt unit and drew late 10 archery. At least it is a bull.
I understand the rule and will live with it. But instead of telling the guy he is an idiot for waiting or not checking it 1000 times, lets be a little sympathetic.
Now of course I can empathize a bit more. I am sure he has beat himself up plenty.
The real course of action should be to figure out a real way of regaining points when a mistake or misfortune has happened.
Now I hail from Utah. I believe Utah's rule of being able to turn a tag back it right up until the hunt is the worst.
My view is this, let a guy have up to 2 weeks from draw time to figure it out. If it was a mistake. That still gives them plenty of time to get to the next applicant. Of course charge the money, but give the points back.
Now if you pass that date you are out of luck. But there should be some provision allowing for medical, deployment ect. I would say this would have to be done on a case by case basis, but would be possible.
I see the point of many on here about snooze you lose, quit your whining. Well many of us have made a mistake, should we be punished with no hope of redemption? We should be able to agree on a happy medium?

Jason "The Big Ol' Muley"
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-08-13 AT 06:46PM (MST)[p]They can't simplify the process anymore than they already have and people still can't seem to get it right.
If you want to turn your tag back after drawing, I don't care; give it to the next guy.
Other than punishment there's no reason to lose your points either. They're just swapping you for the next guy in line.
 
So you drew a tag that you applied for and it means you got robbed? No wonder this country is turning upside down. Let's blame it on AZGF. Afterall, it is their system that screwed you up.

Oh, and as far as not applying in AZ anymore, BYE.
 

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