I thought Ranchers were on our side?

Coyote_chaser

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http://www.idahostatesman.com/usnews/story/1006950.html

CARSON CITY NV- Wildlife guzzlers - contraptions that capture rainwater and melting snow in remote places for thirsty animals to drink - have triggered a turf war between two Nevada resource agencies.

Members of the state Board of Agriculture argue that as their numbers increase, guzzlers are altering the landscape and taking precious resources, whether water or forage, from ranchers. They want to stop the Nevada Department of Wildlife from constructing any new guzzlers and are exploring possible legal challenges. Some ranchers say they are ready to sue over infringing wildlife.

"The water is an issue because water is very valuable," said Tony Lesperance, director of the Agriculture Board.

"Guzzlers change the distribution of elk," he said, and "also change the distribution where elk eat," taking available forage away from ranchers and their livestock.

The wildlife agency insists state law favors the birds, elk and bighorn sheep who drink from the guzzlers in the driest state in the country. Nevada receives about 9 inches of annual precipitation.

"Thirty years of discussion is on our side," said Chris Healy, spokesman for the Wildlife Department. "Wildlife is not a beggar at the table, but is entitled to its share of water."

The guzzler battle is just one of many conflicts that play out across Western lands where battles over sometimes scarce resources have pitted shepherds against ranchers, hikers against off-road enthusiasts and rebellious residents against the government. Water and the animals who occupy the land are often at the center of the conflict.

Around Nevada and the arid West, water is collected and stored in underground tanks for birds or large game animals to drink through the hot summer months when moisture in vegetation on the range can be as dry as tissue paper and distances between watering holes a long, dusty journey. The guzzlers range in capacity from a few hundred gallons to more than 10,000 gallons.

Dave Pulliam, a habitat specialist with the state wildlife agency, said there are 1,616 guzzlers statewide.

Most belong to the Wildlife Department, though others were installed by federal agencies, including the Forest Service, Fish and Wildlife Service and the Bureau of Land Management, which controls roughly 85 percent of the land in Nevada.

"Basically the BLM cooperates with the Nevada Department of Wildlife to put guzzlers on public lands and we rely on their expertise because they manage the wildlife," said BLM spokeswoman JoLynn Worley. An environmental assessment is prepared before new guzzlers are erected.

Some mining companies also install guzzlers when they reclaim the land after closing mines.

The largest guzzlers are mainly in southern Nevada for bighorn sheep.

"In the desert, you may not get rain for two years," Pulliam said. The larger tanks allow the capture of as much water as possible from a downpour and "hold water over for more than one hot season."

Collection aprons on the larger guzzlers measure about 8 by 12 feet, and can capture 60 gallons of water per inch of rain, he said. If grouped together, the guzzlers would take up less than 40 acres of Nevada's more than 70 million acres.

Ramona Morrison, a state Board of Agriculture member and the daughter of the late Wayne Hage, a longtime Nevada rancher and leader in the state's sagebrush rebellion movement that pushed for more local control of public lands decades ago, said "nobody really had a squawk" when guzzlers were first proposed about 30 years ago as "rain traps" for chukar, a game bird in the pheasant family.

But Morrison said guzzlers have expanded in size and scope.

"Virtually every bit of land in Nevada that is covered by rangelands, all the water arising on those lands have been put to beneficial use by the livestock industry and all of those waters are by definition vested water rights," she said.

"What that means is, every guzzler that is trapping for wildlife, it's infringing on those vested water rights," she said. "If you're going to transplant big game into an area ... NDOW may need to show up with a checkbook."

The agriculture board has asked the attorney general's office for a legal opinion on guzzlers, and whether the board has a say in state water decisions.

Morrison also is involved with the Nevada Live Stock Association. During a recent discussion by the Wildlife Commission, association president Don Alt said "there will be lawsuits" if wildlife is moved to ranching areas without compensation.

Ron Cerri, president of the Nevada Cattlemen's Association, said his organization hasn't taken an official position on the controversy.

"We're not opposed to multiple use," he said, but added he'd like more discussion with the industry before guzzlers are installed. "We understand that wildife needs to use the water too."

Healy and others said that the goal in placing guzzlers often is to keep wild animals away from the lure of water on agricultural lands.

"We're spreading out wildlife that otherwise would have impacted domestic livestock operators," Healy said.

Jim Jeffers, a retired wildlife biologist and former Nevada wildlife commissioner, said the controversy baffled him.

"I always thought guzzlers kind of work in a complimentary fashion" with the livestock industry, he said.

Guzzlers are targeted in "areas where you have habitat but you don't have water," he said. "If you don't have water there, how is that taking away from livestock?"

Jeffers said guzzlers aid creatures big and small, from kangaroo rats and bats to big game animals.

Without guzzlers, he said, "you would diminish the range of a lot of wildlife in the state considerably."

Allen Biaggi, director of the Nevada Department of Conservation and Natural Resources, and Tracy Taylor, state water engineer, said it's not the first time the issue has come up.

They point to a 1982 letter from then State Engineer Pete Morros, who was asked whether guzzlers require water rights.

Morros cited a 1981 law, which said anyone wanting to obtain a right to use water from a spring or ground seepage "must ensure that wildlife which customarily uses the water will have access to it."

It concluded, "Unquestionably the guzzlers provide benefits to wildlife which is in the public interest and welfare," and therefore placement of guzzlers for wildlife only does not require acquiring water rights.

The letter is still followed as state policy, Biaggi said.

He said in many valleys where agriculture is present, springs and streams have dried up that would otherwise have been available for wildlife.

"These guzzlers have done nothing more than replace historic uses," he said.

But Morrison said the policy doesn't constitute due process for ranchers, who also have aided wildlife through their own water projects.

"It's been a very beneficial relationship between livestock and game," she said. "But we object when game is managed at the expense and exclusion of the livestock operator, and that's where this is going."

Public land ranching helping out us sportsman one more time!!! ha... This stuff is a joke.
 
...if I were a rancher, I sure wouldn't feel like we were on the same side after reading most of the related posts on MM forums.....


great post/pic, thanks for sharing

JB
497fc2397b939f19.jpg
 
Ranchers are for ranchers, as they should be (IMHO). They can outfit, close down and restrict hunting all they want. It's their land.

The problem I have is that they market how tough things are and how their hanging on by a thread. So what? So are all kinds of businesses that are tougher to run than a ranch. Many of them make enemies of hunters by restricting access to millions of acres of public land. All this and quite a few (most) accept welfare and call themselves conservative.

My solution to part of it (don't hold your breath) is that no rancher gets to get cheap grazing rights on BLM or state land unless they allow public access, walk in only. Otherwise they are locked out.
 
"Ranchers are for ranchers, as they should be (IMHO). They can outfit, close down and restrict hunting all they want. It's their land."

This article is not talking about private land, but public land. They want the welfare of their cows put before the benefit of hundreds of thousands of hunters. Its sad. Hopefully ends soon.
 
Ranchers are for ranchers. It has been my experience that ranchers will exploit wildlife for any financial gain. A lot of ranchers will do everything they can to lock up public land, and prevent anyone from hunting it. They also are super subsidised by the Gov. (grazing), and it would not hurt for the wildlife to win on this one.
 
RMEF, Mule Deer Foundation, FNAWS, SCI and any other "wildlife" organization should be jumping in here and supporting the Department of Wildlife on this issue. I may be in the minority here but I feel they have no business on public land to begin with. Cattle compete with the same resources that wildlife need to survive. This is a hunting website and there should be more hunters that are outraged by this and need to speak out in support of the DOW.

JR
 
Northeast Nevada ranchers are not on the sportsmans side, not even close, Tony Lesperance is a discusting little worm, but the hunters around that area seem to care little, so thats the way it goes. I think on average cattle are alotted twenty times or more the the amount of forage on public land as wildlife, compare that to many Arizona hunt units where it is a 50/50% split. Its a sad situation in Nevada, but NDOW has very little support from hunters.
 
I guess my comprehension of the above article is a little different then most of you. what I understood that it appears it is one woman, whose is a daughter of a rancher, that is pushing this " no more guzzlers" for only wildlife use.
It stated that the Cattlemen's Assoc. has not taken a stand on this issue yet. Could we have one radical woman rancher pushing her agenda and everyone is painting with a broad bush on all the cattle ranchers.

I have no problems with cattlemen using BLM land for grazing, as it helps them stay in business and we profit from cheaper meat when we go to the store.

I also feel that just because a rancher has grazing rights to public land, he does not have the right to fence the public out, but I would accept limits on not allowing or put up limits on vehicle traffic that may disturb the cattle and wildlife both.

Also would help cut down on poaching of the wildlife and the cattle both. We need to keep things in proper perspective. For every greedy cattleman you can think of, there is a cattleman that can tell you about several slob hunters who not only poach the game, but also shot up their cattle as well on the land their cattle was grazing on. Not all cattlemen are greedy, or anti hunting, and not all hunters are slobs that give hunting a bad name.

I think this is one area that hunters and ranchers can work together to better the wildlife and at the same time allow the cattleman have grazing rights that are compatable with the land and amount of feed that land has to offer for both.

RELH
 
If the average guzzler holds 5000 gallons, we're only talking about 8 million gallons of water (5000 X 1600) over 70 million acers. The average water truck holds 5000 gallons. More water than that runs off my roof every year.:)

Nevada needs to eliminate about 75% of the wild horses if they want to help wildlife and ranchers.

Eel

Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety.
 
RELH it was the NV Dept of Agriculture that is pushing to stop the guzzlers. They lobby for the public land grazers. Its not just one radical woman.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-13-09 AT 06:42PM (MST)[p]Its not just one woman, and in many areas ranchers and the wildlife departments work together, but that area has been a hotbed for animosity between the two. I could tell many storys about the insane comments by ranchers and public officials, the proposals (elk free zones) bumper stickers (elk free by 2003). I spent a year going to meetings about setting managment goals for a couple areas , only to have the good ole boy politicians cut deals eliminating the chance to have a few elk live on public lands, because of public support they would do it behind the scenes. Many times myself and one friend were the only sportsmen to show up. Im so glad to get away from that area and the people. I moved and after a couple years the nightmares subsided, I can honestly say many of the ranchers in Wyoming are good stewards of the land and wildlife. Oh here is a classic example in Nevada, Wayne Hage brought suit to the forest service, saying that elk drank water out of creeks on public land that he had adjucated water rights to. Eel- its not the water that most cry about, they think all the forage that grows on public land belongs to them, because they have the grazing permits, and there are few if any wild horses in those NE areas where the elk reside.
 
Piper, like you my good experiences with ranchers has mainly been confined to the ranchers in Wyoming and that was what I was basing my reply on.

It seems that N/E Nevada may indeed be a different story for cooperation between ranchers and sportsmen. It probably will not change while that paticular woman is in power with the state agriculture agency and takes a radical view of things like her father did.

Too bad the sportsmen in that state do not take a better stand to curb their radical views on who has rights to the water-land use. Beginning to sound like some of our water wars here in CA.

RELH
 
I believe every hunter and outdoorsman should get involved with this issue. Financial or Political, who knows what there real agenda is ? I have donated my time and money on several water projects, and I can tell you this. Where we have installed new guzzlers or have increased the water capacity for existing guzzlers, there is absolutly know way you would ever find a cow even close to the terrain where this developments exist. This is particularly true for the guzzlers installed for Sheep in Southern Nevada. This is a slap in the face to The Fraternity of the Desert Bighorn, NBU and those organization and people who have dedicated there hearts and souls to putting and keeping wildlife on the Mountain.
 

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