Hunting and killing Deer that live in the City

[wyogoathunter]

Just a question to the general public. A deer has been living his entire life in the city limits, wherever, with no hunting pressure, no fear of humans, and a few if no predators, grows to impressive size. Then someone takes him on questionable grounds, in the city limits or out of the limits, the hunter will not come clean about the place of death. Can or should that deer be allowed to be put into the books or contests? Want to know how the rest of you people feel about it.

 

[crextin]

Not sure what the rules are there. In MT if the game warden wants to see the kill site a hunter has to take them to the kill site. That would solve the problem.

 

[bamacpl]

LAST EDITED ON Oct-22-09 AT 08:35AM (MST)[p]who cares where it's killed, jealous?

 

[257Tony]

>LAST EDITED ON Oct-22-09
>AT 08:35?AM (MST)
>
>who cares where it's killed, jealous?
>

Because if it was killed in a spot where hunting is not allowed, or too close to a road or house then its a poached animal, that's why.

If the hunter wants to enter it in B&C and try to get away with it that's his prerogative, of course concerned hunters can always voice their skepticism to B&C....

 

[deadibob]

They should just burn the record books so people aren't tempted to do outrageous things to get in them. While it's neat to recognize large animals and see where they came from, the hunter should remain anonymous. Too many egos out there wanting to be stroked. Credit should lie with the creator of the animal not the person who happened to stumble upon it.

There's countless cases of doctored trophies and poached animals because someone wanted to be recognized. How many laws have been broken, lies told and animals poached so people can get record book status.

I think record books were well intentioned to begin with but have been bastardized by inflated egos and greed.

 

[FishlakeElkHunter]

>They should just burn the record
>books so people aren't tempted
>to do outrageous things to
>get in them. While it's
>neat to recognize large animals
>and see where they came
>from, the hunter should remain
>anonymous. Too many egos out
>there wanting to be stroked.
>Credit should lie with the
>creator of the animal not
>the person who happened to
>stumble upon it.
>
>There's countless cases of doctored trophies
>and poached animals because someone
>wanted to be recognized. How
>many laws have been broken,
>lies told and animals poached
>so people can get record
>book status.
>
>I think record books were well
>intentioned to begin with but
>have been bastardized by inflated
>egos and greed.


+1

GREAT POST!!! I could not agree more! I think ALL record books should GO AWAY.....and if not, then I agree, that we should recognize the animal, and NOT the freaking hunter! The animal is amazing, make it so you never know who shot it...that would be a great idea!!!!!

 

[antlerrick]

+1 here also...

Do away with the hunter's name and then we can appreciate the great animals that are out there!

 

[txhunter58]

LAST EDITED ON Oct-22-09 AT 03:55PM (MST)[p]I see two hurdles to go over to see if it qualifies:

1) Was it a legal taking of wildlife

2) Was it fair chase (not behind a high fence)

If so, as the rulebooks stand, I see no problem with entering it.

However, there are many ifs and maybes and holes in your story, so I can not say if THAT animal should be entered.

There are plenty of "backyard bucks" that have been entered in the "book". So just because someone shoots a animal that is human habituated doesn't mean you can't enter it. Don't know how you could write a law to eliminate those.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

 

[Chesterwyo]

Are you just talking in generalities or a something more specific? Like the big archery buck that was killed in evanston?

 

[nickman]

I been raisin' a buck on cornbread and ice cream for 4 years now and I am going to enter him in 2011.

Is that ethical?

 

[popeyoung2]

First off, I agree with dead i bob. I put 8 in p and y and quite. Why? Hell 1/2 the county was wondering where i was killing the whitetails. If it was legally taken with no town ordinance against the hunt then good for him. If he took it breaking a town law then he has to live with himself. One place I hunt requires 10 acres of land to bowhunt and across the street it is 5 acres. Every hunter has to live with himself. As far as city bucks having no predators! The front bumper of a camry is a great predator.He deals with that every day.

 

[ElmerFudd]

Unless it's #1, a top ten maybe, who really cares other than the guy(girl) who puts it in the book (or his guide looking for advertisement)? If he can live with himself, guess it's good

 

[windybownarro]

>Unless it's #1, a top ten
>maybe, who really cares other
>than the guy(girl) who puts
>it in the book (or
>his guide looking for advertisement)?
>If he can live with
>himself, guess it's good



Has anyone ever heard of hunting ethics or fair chase hunting. I have a very hard time with people taking animals inside of town. How has this animal been able to survive this long, because he has no known predators other than being hit by a car at 30mph. I do not believe this to be ethical hunting at all. However, if it was out of town on open property, meaning that they are having to survive on their own (i.e. free ranging predator pressure, ect), then I don't have any problems with it.

 

[popeyoung2]

A "town" or township is 16 square miles. Every midwest buck is killed in a "town". Some backyards in towns are 1 acre, they could be next to a backyard that is 500 acres. If it is legal per the township ordinance, who cares. Many towns in Wisconsin have to bring in traps or sharpshooters to eradicate the deer at a hefty price. I do not get the logic. It's not ethical to shoot one in a small woodlot in a backyard, but he crosses the road into a 40 acre cornfield and the hunter kills him overlooking his natural bait pile, it's ethical? Trust me guys, we are out numbered already at the voting booth. Lets not kill each other over trivial crap. Opinions are like colons, everyone has one and they all stink. Sounds like a democrat debate, form a circle and fire at will.

 

[windybownarro]

I agree, but case in point. Rapid City, SD a few years back opened archery only to help thin out the deer in their town. Rapid City is over 60,000 people. Hunting hadn't been opened there for decades. Now if someone killed a b&c buck in their backyard (and I mean a yard, not a 16 acre township like the one I live in (look up Ottumwa, SD population 0 )), is this ethical?

 

[popeyoung2]

Again, townships are 16 square miles, not acres. Read the requirements to enter an animal in Pope and Young or Boone and crockett. Does it say anyting about How many acres of land the animal was hunted on? My backyard in Wisconsin is 543 acres. Prime whitetail country divided by 2 townships. We gave a deeded easement to a landlocked 20 acres, 16 feet wide for a 2 track. He hunts and has killed big bucks on it. 1/10 of an acre. Good for him. Totally legal by b and c and the township.
Is it ethical to "roadhunt" out west? Tons of lazy, fat bass---turds do it every year.
It's legal in Wisconsin to hunt over 2 gallons of bait i.e. cracked corn, some hunters think thats not "ethical" but they hang there ass over a 40 acre corn field or an alfalfa field which just got knifed with nitrogen for the fall( this is whitetail crack) and they poo poo baiting.
Again, if You are not breaking any laws, I would say the legal standard is higher than the ethical standard. Ethics are personal, some bowhunters only hunt with longbows and arrows they whittled. I personally think thats not ethical when you can hunt with great compounds, carbon arrows, great brodheads, ect. for a quick, clean, "ethical" kill. But that is my opinion.Be careful imposing your "ethics" on someone else.

 

[windybownarro]

Yes and like I said, I do agree with you on your scenario. And matter of factly, I miss spoke when I said acres and not miles. I agree with your easement situation, good for him. Do I agree with the SD road hunting laws, no, and Im doing all that I can to remedy this situation (calling senators, congressman, ect). But my point remains- If you shoot an animal in a residental neighborhood (not subdivision, easement, ect with your next door neighbor close enough to piss on), is this ethical. As far as your egotistical 500 acres, check an average landowner size for western SD, and note that my operation is in the top 2/3. Do your homework, then right back.

 

[popeyoung2]

"As far as your egotistical 500 acres, check an average landowner size for western SD, and note that my operation is in the top 2/3. Do your homework, then right back. "

I really do not care if You own 100,000 acres. If You did, what does it matter if some guy plunked a buck eating grandma's apples in town?If he broke a law, Turn him in. I am sure know one has ever rolled down the window and pounded a ringneck, mulie, or antelope on your ranch.

If you are equating acreage to wealth, I'd rather own 1 acre at wall and broad st.( thats nyc) over the entire white river.

 

[windybownarro]

I was not stating the size of my ranch (notice that I left that out to your imagination), other than your previous comment on your acreage. Secondly, you obviously didn't do your homework on SD, yes White River is in western SD, but about 2 hours south. Next of all, it doesn't matter if you shoot a deer in town. Haven't said anything to contradict that. I do have a problem with people shooting monster bucks in town (not townships(16sq mile sections of land as you have previously stated)) and triing to get them in the books. Either through lying, manipulation, ect (please see original post). Lastly, no one to my knowledge (yes, poaching is a problem here as well) has ever and will NEVER shoot anything from a vehicle- yes I said vehicle, meaning 4wheeler, pickup, atv, camper, car, boat, horse, mule or camal (if I left someting out, please let me know). As far as owning an acre in NYC other than out west (SD), I believe by this comment you have left yourself open to inquiry about what type of hunter you really are. Smile, God still loves you

 

[popeyoung2]

"and note that my operation is in the top 2/3. Do your homework, then right back. "
You never referenced size? I bet You drive a lifted 4x4 that compensates for lack of size somewhere else.. Let's see now. I love hunting birds out of Lemmon. I can hunt both states in 1 day. The best of south dakota? Wall? ok never mind. I know, Sturgis, the best yearly meth infested, women beating, biker infested abortion on the planet. Oh maybe, mulie blue tongue disease.Roger Maris? My NYC notation simply meant wealth is relative. Again, if this monster buck was taken ilegally, then turn the hunter in to the book. Until You have taken 58 big game animals with a bow, over 300 with a rifle, shotgun, pistol and musket, don't get all macho.
" camal (if I left someting out, please let me know)."

Yes, replace the a for an e in camel. God, Please have Barack send literate teachers to the Dakotas so people in Montana can stop all the jokes!

 

[windybownarro]

LAST EDITED ON Oct-23-09 AT 10:33PM (MST)[p]You tell me to not be macho, but who's the one nagging on ones state? I have made reference to and maintain reference to the original post. Does your nagging help this cause at all. Not all of us have the time to stay up and compete with the likes of those who call themselves hunters because they have killed something but still have something to prove so they stay up all night bashing topics that people do have a valid opinion on. It would be to my liking, and I'm sure to that of the rest of us on this forum, that if you have something to say that is of an opinion please right. Oh, by the way, no my truck is not lifted due to the fact that a lifted truck is not very capable of towing a load of bulls down the interstate. As far as the teacher comment, we would love to have more qualified teachers out here so if you know of any, please send them my way. Oh by the way, isn't Wisconsin the state where a man tried to rob a pharmacist with a fake gun (finger), only he didn't hide it, just waved it at him? And isn't Wisconsin also trying to lower the legal hunting age from 12 to 10? How many kids that are 10 from Milwaukee will you be hunting with?

 

[popeyoung2]

They did lower the age limit. By the way, Texas has no age limit. As a matter of fact, my 16 year old, now an eagle scout, has killed 22 big game animals. bow=3, musket=1, shotgun=16, rifle=2. Mulies, whitetails, antelope. 2 in the book. My greatest thrill.He will hunt alone this year and kill at least a deer a day. My 10 year old will be next to me on opening day while I have her wait for at least a 140 class whitetail. She already can hit a playing card at 40 yards with a bow, put a shotgun slug at 100 yards in the same card and 400 yards with her 243. Her future boyfriends will think when she can gut a deer in 4 minutes. Please do not mistake "eastern hunters" for city slicker pussies. I have hosted 2 tuff Montana hunters in Wisconsin for a bowhunt. OK, Climb a tree stand 22 feet in the dark, snap in, it's 10 below zero, stay there , motionless for 3 hours and make a 12 yard shot straight down on a toad buck. Funny stuff to witness. I thought about somehow mounting a truck window in the tree so they felt more comfortable.

 

[windybownarro]

Funny stuff, but remember that not all westerners are spot and stalkers. I have twelve stands up this year and thinking about more. Family is getting bigger= more hunters. Congrats on bringing your family out hunting. More people need to do the same. Scares the heck out of me though when an inner-city ten year old is out shooting a rifle that can go for miles, even with all the trees that are in Wisconsin. My hats off to you, been a great debate. Must call it to an end though, got to check cows in the morning before heading off to hunt Kansas. Good luck on your future hunts, your more of a sportsman than I previously thought.

 

[ramtagless]

"The front bumper of a camry is a great predator.He deals with that every day."

Deer do not instinctively avoid vehicles. They do their thing and unfortunately get hit. Comparing vehicles to living breathing predators is ridiculous.

"A "town" or township is 16 square miles. Every midwest buck is killed in a "town"."

Suggesting that a town is synonymous with a township is also ridiculous.

"It's legal in Wisconsin to hunt over 2 gallons of bait i.e. cracked corn, some hunters think thats not "ethical" but they hang there ass over a 40 acre corn field or an alfalfa field which just got knifed with nitrogen for the fall( this is whitetail crack) and they poo poo baiting."

WTH does knifing nitrogen in the fall have to do with anything? Is it OK to knife nitrogen in the spring?

 

[popeyoung2]

Fun exchange as well. By the way, Kansas has a better chance of breaking the whitetail world record then Iowa. I put Wisconsin 3rd. Remember, You can not kill a 170 class buck till You pass a 140 class. And so on down the line. I wish my property was in Kansas as after 35 years and over 400 bucks we only have 3 175 net bucks on the wall.

 

[windybownarro]

LAST EDITED ON Oct-23-09 AT 11:13PM (MST)[p]Got me a 140 class whitetail here at home last year and was toying with a 200 class muley, but will have to wait on him till after Kansas. I'd be happy to come home empty handed, it's all about the experience. God bless and good luck!!

 

[popeyoung2]

46,000 deer are killed by cars in Wisconsin each year.Predators, including wolves,bear,and coyotes in the state do not come close to the bumper kill. Average of 12 people killed each year. Nobody knifes nitrogen into alfalfa in the spring, makes no sense for the farmer and by the way, You can not hunt whitetails in the spring. It's a birthing,no antler, wardens frown on it time of year. But right now, the fields that are knifed become deer magnets. My point is everyone defines baiting a different way. What was your point anyway?

 

[popeyoung2]

200 class muley is a way more scarce than a 140 whitetail. Like I said. Kansas is the bomb for big bucks. Just have the discipline on the land u control to lay off the small guys. One year can make a huge difference. My Mom has killed a 141 and a 148 gross already this year (73 with m.s.) We have 5 left in that class local. I am going after 1 that is 175 plus. If i see him great, if not, my kids can shoot the 140's. I am at a point where another 140 inch buck means nothing to me but the world to my kids.

 

[windybownarro]

Thats fantastic. We control our muleys like your whitetails. 140 class whitetails are very scarce in my area, although there is a rumor of a 180 in my area. Our muleys are able to grow and do quite well. We only do archery on our property and treestands do work to some extent but usually the big boys hang out in the open. No one has harvested a muley here that isn't at least a 5x5 thats three years old. Just our rule.

 

[Buckhunter1]

A hunter must come clean, at least when he signs a fair chase affadavit. But that is the problem with our record books a person can just lie. How many Mexico bucks are killed from a high rack attached to a runing pickup? Just a thought.. BH1