How would you handle this situation?

M

manny15

Guest
K, I have this friend who's a realtor, he called me three weeks ago, asked me to run around with him and a client looking for a fixer upper house to buy.

I did, and she settled on a house, she then asked me to give her an estimate on all the repairs interior and Exterior, we go back to my friends office and I work on $ part of the work, when I was finished I gave her and my buddy a copy of the estimate, she guaranteed me the work.

In this estimate was a separate estimate to remove and re-shingle the roof.

She puts in her offer on the house, it's excepted, the bank wants a inspection of the house, they get nit picky and want the steps fixed and a window fixed before they close escrow, I go over to the house and fix this stuff to speed things up.

Then the bank wants a roof inspection from a certified roofer, here?s where it gets tricky, because my buddy doesn't want to spend the money on an inspection, he calls a roofer for a Bid instead of an inspection which would cost $250.00 and while the guys on the roof he says how long you think the roof is going to last and makes him write it down on the bid.

Thus he gets his inspection for free, the part where we had a falling out about is, he turned in the bid to the buyer, the bid was less then mine, I don't care about the $ difference but what he did was shady and now has made me look like and idiot by over bidding.

I told him no one asked for a bid, but you gave her a bid knowing full well I already gave her a bid. He doesn't see the problem; I told him it's a matter of trust in a relationship.

I was informed I still have the interior work; I'm not sure about the roof yet...
But now I can't get over the way he handed it and feel like he back stabbed me, he goes on to say it would not have been ethical for him to not give her the lower bid (self righteous) he still doesn't get it. I was pisst, felt like I was betrayed, he's sposta be a friend and a fellow Christian

So Q is, is this Friendship over?
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-06-09 AT 00:19AM (MST)[p]Business is Business leave the friendship out of it! In this world there will always be somebody that is cheaper. I am a painter and most the time my price is in the middle to the higher end. But you get what you pay for! I hate doing "friend" jobs because they feel you should give them a "Great" deal. and bend over backwards for them without getting anything in return.

Maybe the best thing would be to talk to him and tell him how you feel?


If it were me and they didnt like my bid i would rather have the other guy do it. I try to be fair but i also have to make money.
 
Manny- I'm a Realtor and have been working with the same investors for the past 5 months. If I'm understanding this correctly....you gave a bid on the roof prior to knowing that the bank needed a two year roof certification. Right? Here's the tricky part....if you're not a licensed roofer, you are not able to give a roof certification. The buyer does not want to pay for a new roof prior to closing escrow. The cheapest way for the buyer to deal with the roof and close escrow is to make the bank happy by getting the roof cert. Then, after it closes, they re-roof it.....if need be. BUT....here's what we did in a similar situation.....the investors have a general contractor who I also know. He is not a licensed roofer but he submitted a two year roof cert. to the lender and they didn't question it. The roof cert was simply a statement on letterhead stating that you guarantee the roof's stability for the next two years. It cost the buyer no money, we closed escrow last Friday and work has now commenced on re-roofing the home.

Now the question is did he burn you? He should have called you and told you he HAD to get a roof cert and was planning on having a roofer come out. That would've given you the chance to lower your bid if you needed to. He did what is right for his client. As Realtors, that is our job. Just because the other bid was cheaper doesn't mean they won't use you. Your buddy needs to talk you up and convince his clients to use you even though you're a little more expensive. He did the right thing in representing his clients to the fullest. Would I be pissed if I was in your shoes? Probably, but that is only because you don't know or can't understand WHY he did what he did. That is his job and keeping that client.....or having that client pass his name on to other potential clients is how he supports his family. I'm sure he didn't try to purposely back-stab you. Business with friends is tough sometimes. Look at it this way, you got the interior work. Without him, you'd have missed out on that work. I hope that helped.

Steve
 
Depends on how much you value the friendship.

You should probably go ahead with whatever work you might get out of the deal and get on with your life. If you need the work. If not, walk away.

I desperately avoid mixing friends or family with any business.

Your "friend" KNOWS he screwed up and will probably not get in bed with you again after knowing he threw you under the bus, so you probably won't have to deal with it anymore.

That is the "Christian" answer.

I would probably wait .....years if I have to, and get even. Something will come up, I guarantee it. But then, I'm a nasty old SOB, and revenge always makes me giggle!!!
 
Note to self.....don't cross Nickman! I may pay for it when I least expect it!! I'll take a rain check on that scouting trip!! HaHa...

Steve
 
NOT TRYING TO PISS YOU OFF manny BUT HERES HOW I SEE IT!!!

manny = GREENHORN!!!

nickman = A PRO WITH LOTS OF EXPERIENCE!!!

IF YOU WANNA SEE LOTS OF CUTTHROAT BULLSSHIT TAKING PLACE ANY TYPE OF CONSTRUCION IS A GOOD PLACE TO FIND IT!!!

REALATORS ARE LIKE PENNICILAN PENNY,THEY'LL SCREW YOU FOR A NICKEL ONE DAY & THEY'LL BE YOUR BEST CHURCH BUDDY A FEW DAYS LATER KNOWING THEY'D LIKE TO SCREW YOU AGAIN IN THE FUTURE!!!

YOU LET IT HAPPEN AGAIN manny IT'S YOUR FAULT!!!

IF YOU AIN'T LICENSED manny YOU'RE EVEN TAKING MORE CHANCES,I'M NOT SAYING YOU'RE NOT,JUST WARNING YOU!!!

ONE QUESTION???

HOW DOES IT FEEL TO BE SCREWED BY A SO CALLED FRIEND???

"I'M NOT COMPLAINING,I'M TELLING IT THE WAY IT IS,SOME OF YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,THATS O.K.,SOMETIMES THE TRUTH HURTS & YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT IT,OR YOU FIND OUT WHAT THE FACTS ARE,STAND UP & VOICE YOUR OWN OPINION,THIS IS STILL AMERICA THE LAST TIME I CHECKED"!!!

493c3bb236d04499.jpg


REMEMBER!!!

THERE'S ONLY ONE bobcat!!!
 
Nail his wife and call it even.


---------------------------------------
"I needed a cheesy signature saying like everyone else"
 
Judging from your friends loyalty, I prolly wouldn't do his wife, as there's a good chance she's got herpes :-(
 
And now we see why Nunya is no longer married! LOL!

Tough thing Manny - I think you have to ask why you are offended though. This is a question of introspection more than inspection - How much of this has more to do with you than with him? I usually find that I am at fault enough to not hold anything against my brother, unless of course I want to hang on to my pride for my own selfish reasons. Then I know that I am totally at fault.


UTROY
Proverbs 21:19 (why I hunt!)
 
Nice, BFE!!

BESS- Saying all Realtors will screw you is like saying everyone from Utah are in-bred. We know not all of you have sex with your relatives! What it comes down to is the guy doing his job for his clients. So, instead of "screwing" Manny, the Realtor should have screwed his clients? He didn't screw anybody....


Steve
 
Bess' I'm a licensed General Cont. but I'm not a certified roofer, I've been doing roofs for years just takes common cense.

All he had to do was tell me the bid was lower before he gave her the lower bid, by the way the roofer is 70 on SSI and still works that's why his bid was lower....

I also feel it was kaniving to call a roofer out for a bid when it was an inspection that was required.?
 
It's all Business, but there is a lot of ways to do business.

There are people that will screw you! Doesn't matter if there bible thumpers, realtors, Lawyers, doctors, contractors, gardners or what ever.

There are good and bad in all business trades.

Ok maybe there isn't a good lawyer but everyone else!
 
Is there the possibility that the roofer OFFERED the information without your friend asking for it. The roofer may have just said something like this, "...and for me to replace the roof it would run $5500." Maybe your friend didn't ask for a quote.

Can you still make money if you match the other roofers price? Would it be worth it for you? Try that angle. Tell him you really want the work.

Steve
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-06-09 AT 09:35AM (MST)[p]no, when I told him no one asked for a bid, he told me "the roofer wouldn't come out for free if he didn't ask for a bid, Planned all along sooooo......


its not the money it's the feeling of the knife in my back...
 
Here's the deal Manny....the Realtor HAD TO HAVE A LICENSED ROOFER give him what he needed. That is the bottom line. As crappy as it may seem, the Realtor works for the buyer...not you. he's covering his ass by doing it right so he can stay in business. He didn't screw anyone. It is unfortunate that you may not get the roof work. If you were a licensed roofer, we would not be talking about this now. You would have the work, I'm sure. Shrug it off and understand that your friend had no choice....he did what he is required to do as a Realtor and that is do things right for his buyer. There is no other way. He's gotta have a licensed roofer.

Sorry you gotta deal with this. Sucks.

Steve
 
I'm with ODB it happens when you mix business and friends, but don't feel like your alone it happens to us contractors all the time. The chity part is if your like me you'll do it again, who knows maybe I'm just a hard learner.
 
If you need the interior work, I wouldn't make the roof issue a big deal. Get what you can and move on. You have your bills to pay as well. Good luck, Manny.

Steve
 
I have been in Real Estate for many years now and work with 3 major foreclosure companies. Things do tend to get pretty hectic with work requirements, inspection prior to closing, and somethings just happen! Do you think it was done on porpose? At least you still have some work, better than NONE! I personally will not have people/friends I know give any bids unless the sign a hold harmless of myself and our company, and understand it as well. Been burned bad once! Keep your friendship!

Best of Luck
 
Just thinking out loud?.I'm kinda seeing Realtors have a different mindset, kinda like layers and possibly politicians....?

no offence but, I don't get either??
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-06-09 AT 12:04PM (MST)[p]So your trying to stick it to this lady thats buying the house and your buddy doesnt want to play ball?????




Kyle
"If it moves shoot it again"
 
Rub one out on his pillow and call it even.



---------------------------------------
"I needed a cheesy signature saying like everyone else"
 
>So your trying to stick it
>to this lady thats buying
>the house and your buddy
>doesnt want to play ball?????
>
>
>
>
>
>Kyle
>"If it moves shoot it again"
>


I knew it was just a matter of time before some one with that thought process would come crawling out of the wood work...

so i geuss by him lying to the roofer saying he needed a bid instead of an inspection, that was ethical right...
 
I've tried to be as nice as possible, Manny. But the truth is that his obligation is to represent his clients with THEIR best interest in mind. He works for them....not you. He is doing his job.

What you say about Realtors and lawyers is completely wrong. That is like saying that contractors never call anyone back and they are always late to a job! Don't you take offense to that? I don't know you from Adam but lumping you in with ALL other contractors is irresponsible and not fair.

Steve
 
Realtor = glorified used car salesman. They'll say/do anything to get the sale. I've dealt with a few shady types. No offense to the realtors here, must be the other 90% giving you a bad name . . . . .

Real Estate is a giant Pyramid scheme.

You have the Broker at the top. Associate brokers below that. Realtors below that. Sales associates below that. Everyone is getting a cut of the pie. I've only bought FISBO. The Title Agency is where all the action is.
 
Just remember this quote Manny:

"There's right and there's right and nary the twain shall meet"

H.I. McDunnough


UTROY
Proverbs 21:19 (why I hunt!)
 
Wiz, I meant no disrespect, but let me sum this up for you, when he called me to run around with them, it was 2 days of running around looking at house's and giving them my opinion, as remodeling was my expertise, FREE...

Then when he was worried the inspection would kill the deal, I went to the house and tore apart the steps and repaired them, then fixed a broken window, FREE...

I guess I just don't get, I've always have heard that you don't do business with family or friends... n it is true!

again, it's not the money,
 
I see your point about you already doing a few things for free. That doesn't change the fact that the agent HAS to have a licensed roofing contractor issue the roof cert.

MuskegMan- There is a Broker and those agents, Associate Brokers, salespersons who hang their licenses under the Brokerage. It is not a pyramid...unless you want to call every business in existence a pyramid. The contractor has laborers....a pyramid. The grocery store owner has cashiers, stockers etc who he pays....a pyramid!! Get my point. Plus, Realtors can be Brokers, Associate Brokers, Salespersons, etc. Not everyone are Realtors. It is a trademarked Association in which SOME agents/brokers belong to. Most don't know how the real estate industry works. It's ok to a degree. But if you make comments that shows your ignorance about the industry, it just makes you look bad. If you like to purchase FSBO's, that is your option. I hope you know which documentation is needed to keep you out of civil court. I've never had a problem with any of the transactions I've been involved with because I document and disclose everything to all parties. You ever had a Title Company tell you which Disclosures you need? Do they ever tell you what you can legally do to that home prior to purchasing it or selling it? I bet you haven't...because they won't. They don't want to be in court either. Realtors are here for a reason...and that is to make sure that the transfer of property from one entity to another is legal, binding and understood.

Steve

What do you have against car salesman, anyway? Are you that high on the financial food chain that you need to badmouth other occupations?
 
Roy- WTF are you talking about?!

Here's one that's along the same lines....what's the difference between an apple and an orange?

A banana has more potassium!!


Steve
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-06-09 AT 01:39PM (MST)[p]You must be an out of work car salesman, or work for a Title Company. You seem to have your facts in order that agents work for brokers and so on. Real Estate Licensing to tought in your State.
 
You asked how you should handle this situation! Things happen. Keep your frindship

Best of luck
 
Manny, in my experience as a plumbing contractor, Real estate guys will do whatever needs to be done to get paid. If that includes screwing the little guy, so be it, it's business. It's common knowledge around here to be vary wary of doing business with agents unless you know them well and have worked with them in the past...still no guarantee you'll see your money.

I do agree with what the Wiz is saying though about who the agent works for and why he did what he did. Again, it's business.

I think there is going to be a lot more of this kind of thing as we go on in this down economy. Any work to be had in the construction world is going to be underbid by several someone's who are so hungry for work, they'll get the job first and maybe try to screw the consumer out of quality of work or materials. Business? Maybe survival! We both know how little work there is out there, "sign of the times"

As for your friend, shrug it off as a learning experience and next time make sure you get paid dearly when doing anything that needs to be done that is holding up a closing...business is business after all, Right?.

Joey
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-06-09 AT 02:11PM (MST)[p]What I don't get is how real estate agents screw people. Give me scenario's that you know of where a buyer or seller have been screwed....please. The people that don't know how the industry works may construe "legalities" as screwing somebody. Please....give me examples of actual events that have happened where someone got screwed and I may be able to shed light on WHY this happened. Thanks.

In all walks of life we all need to be careful who we surround ourselves with. It is our policemen, teachers, pastors, county employees and our contractors. There are bad people in everyday life. It is those bad people that tarnish whatever industry they work in.

"screwing the little guy"? Who is the little guy? If Manny is the little guy, he didn't get screwed, he gave too high of a bid. How he would get screwed is if his buddy TOLD the other roofer what Manny's bid was. That would be unethical. If that were the case, then Manny would have a gripe....if it's not, Manny either got too greedy or his supplier gave him too high of a bid and Manny has to pass that along to the consumer.

Steve
 
Pretty close Steve! Hint - google "H.I. McDunnough"

So I was being a little sarcastic and the point was lost on the relative obscurity of the reference (though it will be blatantly obvious to those few in my audience for whom I wrote it).

So here is my point:

Ethics and legality are two seperate things and both present a right thing to do. So Manny - it appears you are right, from your perspective it is not 100% ethical, but what steve is saying all day long is true also. The realtor did get a legitimate inspection from a licensed roofer, he just didn't have to pay for the cost of the inspection because it came wrapped in the bid - which of course is free. But that is a commonly accepted business practice that many licensed contractors do all the time. Is the roofer mad that he was brought out under false pretenses? Obviously not because he got the work, but at the same time, even if he didn't get the work he shouldn't be mad anyway - a bid is a bid - it is not a promise to provide services. Yes it looks like they cut you out of the loop a little bit, and I can see how that would rub you the wrong way, but that is business my friend. It is the free market - it is capitalism. And yes - he did have the obligation to provide the client with the lower bid - he has a fiduciary responsibility to do so. So even if he brought him out under the pretense of only getting the inspection, and he provides the bid anyway, even though he has verbally promised the work to you, if the client decides to accept that bid, then you are SOL. Had you drafted a formal contract and signed it? If not, and you are still doing the rest of the work, it would be very hard to argue that there is any breach of contract.

And I know that what is really bugging you is that your friend didn't stand up for you when it came down to it. It doesn't appear that he told the client that even though he or she got a lower bid from the old man for the roof he felt they should go with you anyway. It doesn't appear that he risked taking a lower percentage of his share if they went with your higher priced service. Even though he doesn't appear to be guilty of any broken laws, he doesn't appear to have been the most loyal friend either. Maybe that means that you don't ever do business with him again, or maybe it means that you get a formal contract signed in the future - that is for you to decide. But as far as letting this hurt your friendship??? I don't know man - I have done some pretty crappy things to my friends (not for a long long while though mind you) and in the end they have forgiven me and I am hopefully now a better friend for it.

So ask yourself this question - would you still go hunting with the guy? Will you still pray for him? And if something happens and he needs you help will you still be willing to drop what you are doing and go help him out? What quality of friend will you be willing to be as a result of this incident?

Sometimes things like this test us more than they test others.

UTROY
Proverbs 21:19 (why I hunt!)
 
Joey- I'm chillin'! I know it is not being directed at me, personally. But it is being directed towards me and my what I do. The generalization the Realtors screw people is wrong. Generalizing any profession is wrong....it just so happens I am tied to the profession that is being degraded in this thread. I don't like the ignorance that goes along with this post and my intent is to bring to the forefront that it is a "generalization" that I do not want to be a part of. I have not done any business with anybody in this forum. Nobody knows me and how I am as a person. I don't want to be put in the category of a "screwer". I started out trying to help a guy out with some insight and in return, my profession is getting slammed. That is why I asked for examples....maybe to explain that what the so called "screwer" did was legal and what was required of him sent down by the regulations that the Department of Real Estate have created. Too many people say things and then when confronted, can't back them up. That's all.

Steve
 
Steve, i understand, just thought you were getting pretty hyped up and a little carried away especially when asking for injustices brought on by RE agents. My generalization is just that. After over 25 years in the trades, having many RE associates, and having bought and sold 5 or 6 properties in my day, i feel entitled to my opinion knowing also, some out there are salts of the earth nice guys. For me to start throwing out many of the BS things i witnessed RE agents to have done would be helping you hijack this thread.

If you think i'm alone in this look back up the line. Many people think Real Estate agents can be, for whatever reason, among the shadier professions. Also, defending used car salesmen from their given and sometimes well earned stereotype will just loose you creditability. ;-)

Joey
 
Sorry for hi-jacking the thread, but I wasn't about to start a new thread with the Title "What do you think about Real Estate agents"! We're getting slammed enough on this thread. I'm over it, Joey. I'm just defending my profession just as we all defend our right to hunt and so forth. We feel strongly about it and will fight for it tooth and nail. Moving on to better threads. Did you guys see Hunt-Rez is back?

Steve
 
I guess we can put an end to this thread since there are better one's out there, so thanks for the advice all.

my buddy and I have a 4 year history nothing long I know, but this last year he's been loosing his shorts and is loosing a couple of his rentals and I've spent 3 weeks working on two of his rentals so he could get renters in, guess what, I never saw a dime only the hope's of getting paid if things pick for him, so Dam me for expecting a little loyalty.......
 
As a freind, you did the right thing by helping him out. If you had extra time on your hands, you stepped up and helped him out. Who told you things in the real estate market would be turning around? If that was his premise for paying you back, THEN he screwed you. If he told you the market was going to turn around over the next couple months then shame on him. I'd watch carefully what he does with his money from here on out. If he's spending money on toys and things that aren't necessary and hasn't paid you, I'd be pissed. Don't get me wrong, Manny. You did nothing wrong here. I have never implied that you are to blame. You seem like a helluva guy by helping him out. His job didn't allow him to repay the favor regarding the roof. Again, I hope you get paid on the work that you've already done and the work on the home that he will be closing.


Steve
 
Nanny,

Quit whining and go talk to your friend about it. A lot of friendships have been lost because folks dont want to confront thier friends about a problem..You will be way ahead if you confront/talk to your buddy about the problem instead of coming on here and getting advice from a bunch of internet know-it-alls...(myself included)



horsepoop.gif


Disclaimer:
The poster does not take any responsibility for any hurt or bad feelings. Reading threads poses inherent risks. The poster would like to remind readers to make sure they have a functional sense of humor before they visit any discussion board.
 
>Nanny,
>
>Quit whining and go talk to
>your friend about it. A
>lot of friendships have been
>lost because folks dont want
>to confront thier friends about
>a problem..You will be way
>ahead if you confront/talk to
>your buddy about the problem
>instead of coming on here
>and getting advice from a
>bunch of internet know-it-alls...(myself included)
>
>
>
>
>
horsepoop.gif

>
>Disclaimer:
>The poster does not take any
>responsibility for any hurt or
>bad feelings. Reading threads poses
>inherent risks. The poster would
>like to remind readers to
>make sure they have a
>functional sense of humor before
>they visit any discussion board.
>


I did last week......
 
I just got home from work and have to jump in.

Manny, your "friend" screwed the old guy into giving a free roof cert. right?

And you're kind of upset because you thought you and your "friend" had this lady locked into your bid for the roof, even though it's in her best interest to get multiple bids?

I was a licensed contractor for about 5 years. I once bid on a job to remodel a kitchen. The next day the guy calls another contractor to get another bid. He told the other contractor what my bid was before he even gave his bid. This other contractor happened to be a REAL friend. He refused to give the guy a bid, called me and told me what happened. I called the owner and told him he could take a flying leap.

This all started when your "friend" screwed the other contractor.

Do EVERYTHING legal and above board and this stuff won't happen.

Shame on both of you.

Eel
 
manny, If the bank wanted an inspection, but accepted one from a "certified" roofer, which I assume means licensed, wouldn't the work have to be done by a licensed roofing contractor also? The legalities vary widely from state to state, even county to county. Just wondering. mtmuley
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-07-09 AT 00:08AM (MST)[p]eel, nice spin there, I'll just refer you to post #27....
 

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