how many is too many?

J

justr_86

Long Time Member
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4,091
My cousin is 13. This is his first year hunting. During the muzzy hunt he shot at 7 different bucks, None of them he hit. Then so far this rifle hunt he has shot at 15 different bucks, None of them he hit. None of the shots have been farther that 75 yards either. They are all spikes 2's and small 3's. What would you do? He is not hitting any of them, We watch the bullets hit the trees and follow up looking for blood for as far as we can track it, So beyond any reasonable doubt he has not gotten a bullet into one.

I'm getting frustrated with him. He is pretty good shooting paper but I have not been able to give him a tip to help him. The gun is on, He is sitting down with shooting sticks on all of them... Its a 243 so its not a recoil issue..
 
Are the shots hitting above the deer? If so maybe he is "pulling" the shot. sound like buck fever.
 
Only give him 1 bullet next year...Tell him he better make it count.

horsepoop.gif


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I had this problem one year. I would want to see the deer fall when I shot, so I would pull the gun up as I was shooting. Missed every time. Watch him to see if the gun starts to move right before he shoots.
 
Obviously lack of experience (he will PROBABLY "grow out of it") but I have no idea what to tell you as to the solution....unless he's simply getting excited and "jerking" the trigger.

That one-bullet idea is not a bad one.


Within the shadows, go quietly.
 
Stand right over him and talk him thru the shot sequence, step by step. Have him relay his sight picture, centering the scope, touch the trigger, squeeze the trigger, etc. Make sure he gives you feedback every step of the way.
He'll stay calm and make a good shot. Guaranteed.
 
+1 shedfinder!

By 13 i had it down pretty good but my earlier years included plenty of misses. Tell him the sight needs to stay on the deer even after he shoots, "the bullet takes time to get down that barrel". Also try having him target practice when he doesn't know if there is a bullet in the chamber or not... These two tips might help him! Good luck!!

Joey
 
Have him practice sitting down with shooting sticks at the range. Have him practice shooting standing up, sitting, laying all with a rest and free handed. Get him a BB gun and take him out shooting live creatures. Graduate to a 22 and go rabbit and squirrel hunting. Take him out rabbit and squirrel hunting all summer long multiple times. Practice, practice, practice. fatrooster.
 
If you have time get one of those deer pic targets and have him shoot at those to see where he is hitting. My cousins do the same thing, they aim high or low because they see fur and usually miss high and low. When I am with them I usually pick a dark or light spot on the deer in the middle right behind the shoulder or close to it and have them find that spot and aim for it. I find if they have a spot to aim at(like on a target) they knock em down every time. Hope it helps.
 
Oh he definately wants to shoot one! He gets mad when he misses. I will try to work with him this next summer and try out some of your suggestions thanks for the help.


He only gets one bullet tonight.
 
"Maybe he doesn't want to shoot one."


+1 1911, I was thinking the same thing. Are you pushing him to be out there at all. Maybe he just dosent want to shoot one but he dosent want you to know that.



Jake H. MM Member since 1999.
458738e374dfcb10.jpg
 
....have him call Overton....he'll have a sympathetic shoulder to cry on...


great post/pic, thanks for sharing

JB
497fc2397b939f19.jpg
 
Sounds like he has developed flinch. I know its just a .243, but if you're scared of the gun you won't hit anything.

He needs to start over and re-learn how to shoot a rifle.

2a0fcsk.gif
 
Was the deer standing still when he shoots?? If so, tell him to NOT LEAD THE SHOT ON THE BUCK.....LOL
Actually, I know a guy who did that exact thing and we made fun of him all day and night.

Brian
 
Stinky will know what to do. He was just there.:)

Tell him to hold the crosshair on the deer until the bullet gets there.

Eel

Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety.
 
next time you get on a deer, you load the gun for him. when he is not looking take the cartridge out of the chamber.then when he pulls the trigger you will both know if he is flinching.my dad did this to me when i was missing the target, when i pulled the trigger i jerked so bad it was not funny.but it also solved my problem
 
Good advice. Often muzzle blast is as much a factor as recoil. Make sure he picks a spot on the deer and holds the cross hairs on it. He may just be finding the deer in the scope and shooting. Follow through on the shot, as stated above, and squeeze the trigger.
 
One of 3 reasons:

1) flinching from the muzzleloader experience?
2) bad buck fever
3) does not want to kill and is afraid to tell You.

remedy:
1) back to basics at the bench--load the gun for him and do not let him see if u loaded a real shell. see if he flinches, build confidence again. a .243 will noy kick but most muzzle loader do.

2) give him one bullet per day hunting and then he's done for the day. When You bowhunt You realize the first shot is all that matters and all you need.
 
Back to the range for sure.

Have him shoot at the range under different situations.

Have him Jog 50 feet and then take a shot.

Have him practice at 200 and 300 yards.
 
I just had my 13 year old consider what your cousin might be doing. He thinks its the fever? He claims you have to stay in the scope and try to see the bullet hit the deer. Also take a couple breaths and hold halfway thru the last breath. He claims it helps if you count to 5 as well. All of these things should help with calming the fever. I might add that the fever is a good thing once it is controlled!! You might lighten the trigger and practice with some snap caps in the living room. Just some thoughts.. BH1
 
maybe the problem is that 12 and 13 year olds HAVE NO BUSINESS hunting big game!!!!!
just a thought



live life one mule deer at a time.
 
Hey wait a minute MR 666 OPPS I mean rifle666, kinda a blanket statement my kid was ready at ten. Some even at a younger age!!! BH1
 
the VAST majority are not ready
just because a few are does not mean we turn them all loose.
just like a drivers licence. just cuz you turn 16 does not mean you get to drive, do they let you get a CDL at 16 no you have to have EXPERIENCE!!!!

true story. last weekned of the ML deer hunt, a group of us were glassing some bucks, 4 adults 3 youths with tags and ML's

a buck steps out 150 yards 3 boys falling all over them selves for the guns and the 12 year old grabs his by the trigger.
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOM he came less than a foot from killing his 13 year old brother, it was so close his shirt got burns from the powder.

who's fault? the kids, haveing a primed ML on a wheeler, grabbing it by the trigger group? the dad for not watching his boys.
or the states for letting them carry with ZERO training mandated.
don't tell me they have hunters safety.
the HS program is a joke.





live life one mule deer at a time.
 
How many critters has the kid killed? By the time I killed my first buck I had killed countless rabbits, pot guts, grouse, doves, ducks and the like. Killing is something that takes some getting used to. Just a thought.
 
great post!
start small, move up, by the time i could pack a big bore rifle i had worn out a .22 and 20 gauge. from about 8 to 16 i shot a ton of small furries. and so did everyone my age, now kids don't get out as much as we did.
not to mention the extinction of the jack rabbit,
now it is ipods, video games and cell phones, fewer kids are out getting the hands on training they need, it's just buy a tag and hand them a 30-06 and go to the hills.


live life one mule deer at a time.
 
Rifle666,Why in the ##### are you guys hunting with 3 inexperienced hunters /kids ,with muzzleloaders capped and ready to fire prior to even seeing a deer ?
 
to clarify
i was NOT hunting with them, my dad and i were hunting, and came upon a guy he knew, we stopped to BS and munch some snacks. their hunting party consisted of 4 adults and 3 youths.

but i know what your saying, for every youth there should be an adult on him at all times. preferably one with no tag and gun of his own.

why there was a cap............million dollar question. training, supervision? all of the above.



live life one mule deer at a time.
 
Anybody that is acting as his guardian would quickly put a stop to this BS until he can shoot.
If he's missing,He's wounding animals at that range.
Wake the Hell up!

VJ
49ca8f1a4fbfdf37.jpg
 
Rifle66, I would rather hunt with my 11 year old than most adults I know. He shot his first big game animal when he was 8 years old.

Age is just a number. What you described with the ML was 100% the adults fault.

They could not judge when their kids were ready. Either they did not prepare them or like a lot of kids now a days the kids are spoiled and not listening to them. Either way the adults need to decide when they are ready.

Most kids now have been conditioned by TV and school that they are "equals". I hear them talk back to their parents and even tell them what to do.

If a parent wants to ruin their kid like that fine, but, they should not have a gun.
 
Things are not the same in all places. Most 12 year olds I know that hunt are probably more conscientious than the adults. Close to the hunter safety course they just finished I suppose. The bad habits seem learned by the adults. I like sitting through the courses with the kids. Keeps me sharp as well and provides a good common frame of reference for review in the field.

It is interesting to listen to a 9 year old, 11 year old, and 15 year old comment on the unethical behaviors of another adult in the field (to me). I commented on it to, but to the adult himself.

That being said, I suppose there are a ton of kids out there that aren't mentally prepared to carry a firearm who do, as there are adults.
 
If he hit one and we could not find it he would be done! He really wants to be there he is pestering me all the time to take him, I take him as often as I can. We go out after rabbits squirrels and prairie dogs with .22's and he does ok. He just gets so excited he cant stand it. You should have seen him on his first jack rabbit. Last night (Closing night.) Before we left the house I put all of his bullets in my pocket and gave him 1 said this is all you get you better bear down and shoot. Found a nice little forky at about 50 yards, Sit down k you only have 1 shot and breathe take your time he is not going anywhere (head down eating). Boom the deer runs off.. Give me another bullet! Nope your done come on lets go home. He is quite mad at me right now but now he knows I'm serious. Kinda sucks its closing night that I did it but maybe next year after lots of work he can have another chance.


Thanks for the tips! Again if he had hit one and we couldnt find it he would be done, Just the way we were taught.
 
wow,
so many things are so wrong with that scene. The adults are 100 % at fault on many levels. It's so easy to blame the state for not regulating? My god, when does common sense come into play?
 
Under supervision have him use the same rifle and dry fire at things. I did this with both my boys and it made all the differnce. Went around the yard dry firing at chickens. Dry fire, dry fire, dry fire. It works.
 
exactly,
when does common sense come into play?

i bet there is not a dad out there that would keep his kid from hunting if he had a tag and was legal.
because no dad is willing to say yep, my kids a utard. he ain't hunting yet.


every one claims " my kid can hit a crows eye at 1000 yards flying away"
my kid can beat up your kid.

take the emotional element away, thats why the state is here.
theu just have the age wrong. trust me, it won't last.

back to the subject.

the kid misses because he does not have the skills and expereance needed yet.

train him



live life one mule deer at a time.
 
rifle666,
your rant and your advice are completely contradictory - how does the kid acquire the skills and experience of KILLING a big game animal if he is not allowed by law to do so.

The issues you are bringing up lay squarely on the adult or guardian who is supposed to be supervising a young hunter. You should do some research on hunting age restrictions some time. A 2004 report commissioned by the National Shooting Sports Foundation and the National Wild Turkey Federation found that hunters age 6 to 15, when accompanied by an adult, have a better safety record than hunters overall. It reported that in 2002, there were 1.6 shooting incidents for every 1 million supervised youth hunters, compared with 52 incidents per million hunters of all ages.

Many states have no age restrictions at all and find no evidence that hunting accidents increase with less restrictive age limits. The key is having the correct supervision occur with a young hunter, which was obviously lacking in the story you shared.

I killed my first deer with a bow when I was 13 - My Dad was there teaching and supervising me the whole way. I was ready to hunt and got it done-so do many millions of other hunters across the nation. There will always be exceptions to every rule and I agree SOME 12 or 13 year olds may not be ready to carry a gun, but to say all youth that age should not be allowed to hunt is asinine!!

Let me guess, you are from Utah and you turned 16 the same year the state dropped the legal hunting age from 16 to 14 and you are still pissed to this day about it.

Let it go man :)
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-26-09 AT 03:25PM (MST)[p]>
>exactly,
> when does common sense come
>into play?
>
>i bet there is not a
>dad out there that would
>keep his kid from hunting
>if he had a tag
>and was legal.
>because no dad is willing to
>say yep, my kids a
>utard. he ain't hunting yet.
>
>
>
>every one claims " my kid
>can hit a crows eye
>at 1000 yards flying away"
>
>my kid can beat up your
>kid.
>
>take the emotional element away, thats
>why the state is here.
>
>theu just have the age wrong.
>trust me, it won't last.
>
>
>back to the subject.
>
>the kid misses because he does
>not have the skills and
>expereance needed yet.
>
>train him
>
>
>
>live life one mule deer at
>a time.


Rifle666, sorry dude. I don't need the Mommy State to tell me what my son is capable of.

There are a majority of kids at 16 that have no business with a gun if they have not been brought up with it.

The same goes for adults.

It was important to me so I prepared my son. At 8 years old he shot his first buck with me attached to him. It was me and him one on one.

I dont rely on the state to raise my kids or make decisions that are mine to make.
 
when that kid turns about 40 let us know if he ever learned how to shoot?
so you think him wounding one is ok?
he ain't safe with a gun,end of conversation.

VJ
49ca8f1a4fbfdf37.jpg
 
My daughters and now my son have all taken deer and antelope. I started them shooting at deer and antelope shaped and sized targets the summer before their first hunts.

I know that as a young hunter it seems all eyes are on you and usually there is somebody on the young hunters shoulder demanding he/she needs "SHOOT!!!, SHOOT!!" making an already nerve racking experience for the kid worse. Resist the temptation to do it. Wait for them to say they are comfortable with the shot.

My advice is to get the young man back to the range and if necessary ask another responsible adult who is not somehow related to the young man to help him. I know all the family bonding over hunting is important but trust me a neutral third party may be a big help.

This is my sons first year of hunting and he has successfully bagged an antelope and doe and buck whitetail. All were one shot kills where he had a good rest, didn't shoot until he was comfortable and he decided when to pull the trigger.

Tell him to hang in there.

Nemont
 
I like the idea of getting kids to work their way up from a BB gun to a .22, and on up to higher calibers. But, starting a kid too young on any weapon is a dangerous idea. A .22 is just as deadly as anything else if it hits the right spot.

I grew up in a home with a LEO as a father and was around guns since the time I was born. I feel like I was pretty mature for my age, but my father waited until I was 12 to even put me on a .22. I wasnt allowed to carry a weapon during a deer hunt unless I was with an adult, and that was when I was 16.

I think fathers need to take serious consideration of what they allow their sons or daughters are mature enough to handle at what age. The problem is many fathers are so eager to share a hunting experience with their children and end up letting their excitement cloud their judgment.
 
I'm not saying that every kid id ready or not ready at 8 years old to pack a .338 and join the ranks of rifle hunters.

All i'm saying is the vast majority are not, and the Mom/dad is not going to make a informed, nonemotional decision about their kid, when it comes down to the hunt, they will let their kid hunt no matter how utarted they are.

the number of hunters who spend all year shooting, practicing, and teaching their young is getting smaller everyday.

how many guys do you know that have not touched their rifle since the last years hunt? now their kid is 12 and he/she is packing for the 1st time. with zero range time.

and you guys are 100% correct, there are many many adults who don't belong on the mountain with a rifle.

i would love to see the state change the hunters safety class and add some actual hands on. the current classes are a JOKE!



live life one mule deer at a time.
 

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