Horse guys....Martingale question

[AWHOLELOTTABULL]

LAST EDITED ON Nov-02-08 AT 08:33PM (MST)[p]I was just wondering if any of you have used a martingale for head problems vs. a tie down. If you have I need to try something for a horse I have but I'm pretty sure a tie down will end up in a short rodeo. What experience have you had with a martingale?



It's always an adventure!!!
www.awholelottabull.com

 

[BuckSnort]

I wouldnt do it...

Those devices are best left to horse trainers. Alot of different things can make a horse throw its head and those devices just put a band aid over a nasty wound..

 

[rancherinnm]

We use running martingales with a ring snaffle a lot on young horses. Not so much a cure but as a prevention to try and keep them from learning to sling their heads. I would rather use a martingale instead of a tiedown outside because a horse can still get its head up to catch it's balance.

 

[cjboz]

+1 Rancher, Tie-downs are only good for the Arena. Outside I would use a Martingale. If you use a Tie-down make sure there is enough slack that you can push th Tie-down in the middle and it touches the horses throat. What ever you use take time with it.

 

[AWHOLELOTTABULL]

I'm going to try a couple of different things like changing bits first before I go to a Martingale but I appreciate the advice. He's a great horse with mountain sense but has that little flaw when he first gets on the trail. A little too much energy in the beginning.



It's always an adventure!!!
www.awholelottabull.com

 

[TFinalshot]

LAST EDITED ON Nov-03-08 AT 08:31AM (MST)[p]
If I were you I'd get with a good trainer, or maybe take that horse to a clinic if you cant or dont want to get him finished correctly. The martingale is a training tool to teach the horse to give his head, it's not a training aid to keep him from throwing it. Yarding on his/her head with a bit, if he's not properly trained will just ruin his mouth. Trying another bit or thinking about what else is going on is a great idea.

I'm sure you know, the tie down is mostly an arena, "cowboy" tool and not really a good choice for what youre doing, unless I miss understood what you want youre up to with this horse.

If youre trying to keep him from throwing his head by using a martingale while youre trailing/hunting, youre going to get in a serious wreck. . . If youre asking this question on here, you should consult an expert in your area an save you and your horse a lot of torture, and make your next hunt/ride more safe and much more enjoyable.

Like was said before, fix the problem dont address the symptom or you'll create more problems than you now have. With horse training, they are like women, everything is connected to everything else. . . push one button over here and you get a reaction you never expected over there, and one final thought, everyone that steps aboard a horse is a horse trainer whether you know it or not. . .

Tony



www.tonybynum.com

"Roadless areas, in general, represent some of the best fish and wildlife habitat on public lands. The bad news is that there is nothing positive about a road where fish and wildlife habitat are concerned -- absolutely nothing." (B&C Professor, Jack Ward Thomas, Fair Chase, Fall 2005, p.10).

 

[Ropinfool]

LAST EDITED ON Nov-03-08 AT 01:24PM (MST)[p]Martingales are more of a training tool rather than a permanent cure. Without seeing the horse I can't say what's happening. It could be a problem with the bit, curb strap/chain, headstall, his teeth, rider, etc. Depending on the type of tiedown and length, they can be pretty severe too if not used correctly. Hope that helps.

 

[ktc]

AWLB,

Strap a riggin' on the SOB, lock down your spur rowls, tuck your chin, and give him hell! ;-)

If it bucks sell him to Circle J Rodeo Company.... or Kuhni's.;-)

 

[alwayzbhuntin]

The purpose of a martingale whether standing or running is to TRY (key word) and prevent a horse from tossing its head. Seems to me,now this is just my humble opinion, that type of behavior is not a vice but simply a normal response to pain or irritation. Martingales are not the answer and they are by no means 100% successful in preventing head tossing anyway. A martingale certainly does not cure the CAUSE of head tossing. It is an attempt to limit the symptom rather than cure the problem as has been said here already. Head tossing is a form of behavior, so you need to figure out what is causing the behavior. By far the most common cause [of head tossing] in a horse is pain from the bit, not saying it is the only cause, but in my experience seems to be up there. The cure is plain: banish the pain. Horses can also toss their heads out of frustration when, for example, a companion horse moves away and his own rider is signaling him to stay put. Horses toss their heads to get rid of flies and a few may toss because of an allergy to pollen, though such a cause is by no means proven. The first thing I would do is remove the bit, make sure that it is not hurting the horse, and at the same time check to see if his teeth need floated. If you do this, then the chances are that you will not need a martingale. A horse in which the bit has triggered pain in his mouth may not stop tossing its head immediately when the bit is removed. But even in such a case, it will not hasten the regression of the pain if the horse receives a sharp blow across the bridge of its nose from the noseband every time it continues to toss its head during the time you have switched bits or let his mouth heal if that is the case. So, yes, the answer to your question is to say that you can use a martingale... but why would you want to? If you feel you must, use a running martingale rather than a standing martingale and adjust it so that it only comes into action to prevent the rider from being hit in the face. A tie-down(standing martingale) can be attached to the chinstrap of a bitless bridle but just because something is possible you don't have to do it. Last but not least, he may just be a smart horse and just doesn't like you....I would at least try that, and if that doesn't seem to cure it, let me know, I have a couple other tricks up my sleeve.




?We abuse land because we regard it as a commodity belonging to us. When we see land as a community to which we belong, we may begin to use it with love and respect.? Aldo Leopold

 

[bobcatbess]

AWLB!!!

YOU TAKES A HEAVY ROPE & RUN IT FROM THE HALTER BACK UNDER THE BELLY & ATTATCH SECURELY TO THE TAIL!!!

THEN HANG ON FOR A MINUTE OR TWO!!!

THIS REALLY WORKS!!!

THIS IS MY NEW GUN,YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,YOU'LL LIKE IT A HELL OF A LOT LESS WHEN IT HITS ITS DESTINATION!!!

THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!

 

[AWHOLELOTTABULL]

Thanks boys. I have pretty much heard everything you guys are saying. The more I think about it and after working with him today it seams to be more of an equipment problem. Will start with the bit and chain and go from there. I appreciate the thoughts. It always nice to get another oppinion just in case I'm missing something.

KTC and Bessy ......if the bit and chain don't work we're gonna find a neutral arena with a case of cold ones and "git r done" son!

It's always an adventure!!!
www.awholelottabull.com

 

[nickman]

A martingale is fine for the annual 4th of July parade.

Anywhere on a trail or cross country and you may have a serious wreck. Horses need to used their head and neck for balance and if they cannot swing their head to catch themselves.......

Try some different bits and headstalls as suggested.

 

[sonofthesouth]

My cousin and were talking about this and he says that "in his experience, the tie down is the only way to go for everyday use"
I guess I should sum up his experience; he has nearly forty horses most all of which get used on the 720 section ranch (460,800 acres) that he manages On this ranch he has around 8000 head of mother cows all of which get worked horse back, he is in the saddle EVERYDAY with the exception of some sundays and is riding in all sorts of terrain. He also rodeos and has one a national championship- amongst other things and is held in high regard as a horse trainer. I guess you could say that a saddle is his office desk-its all he does.

For what its worth!

Son

 

[TFinalshot]

LAST EDITED ON Nov-04-08 AT 09:57AM (MST)[p]son, that's NO surprise, i used one everyday too and in the arena, and when I roped, and when I moved cattle and might have to rope, and with broke horses and so on. The tiedown is a great tool but it has it purpose and its limits. your cousin sounds like he knows what he's doing.

One more thing, often on horse pack hunts, or when hunting from the back of a horse, I would use only a old school hand braided rawhide hackamore, meaning NO bit just a band over the nose and no tie down at all.

The point is each tool has a purpose, the tie down is not to be used to train a horse to NOT put his head up, in fact, there are some horses that actually push against the tiedown and perform better in the ARENA or with roping when they wear one. . . .

So, a good broke horse would get a good stopping bit for calf roping, he'd also have a neck rope and tie down to keep him from killing me with his head should he jerk back or throw his head, but if I were trailing him, I might put a little lite snaffle on him or ride with a hack and that's it. . .

So, youre cousin sounds like he's doing exactly what a modern day cowboy would do where horses still are the the tool of choice.



www.tonybynum.com

"Roadless areas, in general, represent some of the best fish and wildlife habitat on public lands. The bad news is that there is nothing positive about a road where fish and wildlife habitat are concerned -- absolutely nothing." (B&C Professor, Jack Ward Thomas, Fair Chase, Fall 2005, p.10).

 

[basinboy]

If you are interested in reading about it. By a book called Langdons bitting manual. It goes over all bits and tie-downs and how to correct problems. Tom Dorance has a good book on problem solving also. Langdons may be hard to find I would look on e-bay or at Calasters on redwood

 

[fatrooster]

As stated above, the tie down forces the head down to the desired height but will never solve the problem. When you take the tie down off the problem will still be there. Same with a running martingale. There are many things you can do and some of them have already been mentioned.
In my opinion you need to go back to the beginning of his training and teach him to give to the bit, no matter what bit you use, and you teach him this buy tying his head down with a snaffle bit in training exercises in a round pen. You also teach him to give to the bit in turns. Many people start thier horses out in this manner but do not go far enough with it. I have to retrain some of my horses from time to time. They get where they want to walk around with thier head way up in the air in front of my face. All I've got to do is use a session or two and thier head comes right back down to a relaxed headset and when I ask them to lower thier head with the bit they do it with a willing attitude.
I suggest getting a couple of training videos and learning how to train for the desired headset. My favorite training videos are by Will Howe and he shows you how to have a horse with a nice headset without using gadgets such as martingales and tie downs. Also, a trainer can teach this method also for it is a well known method used by most trainers. fatrooster.

 

[BuckSnort]

I dont care how horse savy someone says they are...If they have a tie down or martingale or training fork on while trail riding up/down hills and ESPECIALLY CROSSING WATER they are asking for trouble.

Martingales and tie downs are no substitute for good training and quiet hands. IMHO

 

[BowHuntWithaRifle]

Have you tried a German Martingale? They work totally different than a regular running martingale.
Sounds like your horse likes to stick out his nose and pull away from the bit. If you have easy hands, you can try to train him to give to the bit and tuck his nose in. But gently.
I have never had a barrel or rope horse I didn't have to use a tie down on. Some people don't put them on right and it can cause a reck. If used properly, they can help the horse stay gathered and balanced. Here's a pic of a German M. A little in depth training I think would help the horse alot that throws its head or noses out.