Honest Man Or Criminal?

antlerless · Mar 7, 2007

LAST EDITED ON Mar-07-07 AT 11:29AM (MST)[p]So what do you guys think i know a buddy that found a dead elk a few years back. it was about 380 dead caught in a fence he turned it into the F$G and they took the head and said thanks. I'm sure the officer has them hanging in his house or something now. I was just thinking if you came upon a dead bull (in utah you can't take them) do you turn it in never to seen it again. or do you take the risk and become a criminal? Now i hate poaching and understand their reasons behind confinnscating the head but i think they should do an investigation and if it wasn't poached and after so long it be returned back to you. After all you are the one that found it shouldn't you recieve some kind of a reward? if it was a winter kill like most are what is wrong with having the horns returned? just curious

elknutz · Mar 7, 2007

I also had a friend find a bull dead in the fence on his private property. He did not turn it in to the fish and game because he wanted the horns. I think that the dwr needs to know about it for statistics but they make it hard to have accurate records when people are not willing to tell them when they find something like that. So with no answer to your question I feel the same frustration. I just wish we as sportsman were not so "scared" or gun shy of the dwr. I am a dedicated hunter and I see the advantages of working with the dwr on some things. But isnt this about the future of our sport. Why is it so difficult to get along. I think the sportsman and the dwr should learn to coexist and work together. It would make their jobs alot easier and the sport better for us.

GHOSTINTHEWOODS · Mar 7, 2007

I would take the chance, We ran a lion off a deer kill a few years ago. the lion killed the deer and got it stuck in the deep bar ditch off the road. We pulled our truck right up next to the buck(good buck 28" with some trash)While we were running it and a fish cop pulled up and was talking to us, my dad asked him if we could keep the horns. He couldn't see it and said what horns. We showed him and he said."oh no I'll have to take those". it was obvious that it was killed by the lion but he still took them. Seen him a couple months later and asked him about the horns but he did'nt know what happened to them, Yeah right. Me, I'm takin the chance from now on.

antlerless · Mar 7, 2007

thats the thing you can't have them if yoy find a lion or winter kill but if they fall off it's fair game. i do think that sportsman a f$g need to work together because they are making some honest men criminals. you harmlessly walk on to a dead animal and no matter what you do your a criminal. if you don't report it thats bad if you take it thats bad and when you do report it the f$g take it and you don't get anything. so what incentive do you have to be an honest man?

"SAY NO TO BIG ANTLERS"

Show_Me_Your_Rack · Mar 7, 2007

Honest Man Or Criminal? All you have to be is honest on the outside!!! Utah needs to change that law!!! I take them and i do not feel that i am a criminal and here is my season why!!! Why in some states you can take them but others you cant? thats like saying you can kill someone in arizona but not in utah? I will agree with antlerless its not us that is not being honest!!! If there is anyone out there that knows of any skulls that are laying around but you are to scared to get it tell me and i will get it for you!!!

burnloungekid · Mar 7, 2007

LAST EDITED ON Mar-07-07 AT 09:18PM (MST)[p]HMMMMMMMMMMM.............. I JUST REALY DON'T KNOW WHAT I WOULD DO

AndymanSavage · Mar 7, 2007

LAST EDITED ON Mar-07-07 AT 11:27PM (MST)[p]The law is the law. If you don't like it, do something about the law itself. By definition, if you pick up a head you are a criminal. Simple. By the logic you guys are using, I don't need to obey laws that I don't agree with? It is a piece of bone off an animal that you found dead, is it worth your integrity? Yes, knowingly breaking a wildlife law that is so clear shows a lack of integrity.

Hey show-me, I think that it's legal to marry your cousin in Alabama, are you up for that too?

Andy

elknutz · Mar 8, 2007

Andyman
dont go all honest injun on me. All I am saying is that if that is illegal then so be it. Do you obey the speed limit all the time. I will decide what is worth it to me. Go marry your sister then.

AndymanSavage · Mar 8, 2007

LAST EDITED ON Mar-08-07 AT 08:48AM (MST)[p]

Nutz,

I'm just stating the facts. The title of the thread was "honest man or criminal" I just addressed that. Looking at my post now, maybe the "integrity" thing was a little harsh. I am just frustrated by the attitude of some hunters towards game laws and don't mean to insult anyone.

Don't compare this to the speed limit. I hate it when people use this logic to justify law-breaking. Have you ever driven past a cop while going 5 over on the freeway? What happened? Nothing. They allow some space always. Have you ever walked past a fish cop with a big head in your pack? 100% chance they would check it out. It is a fallacy of reasoning to compare the two.

The cousin marrying thing was supposed to be funny. I don't use those queer little smiley faces or I would of put one there.

Pick up a head if you want. As long as you didn't poach it, you aren't hurting anything. But know that you are blatantly breaking game laws and it is not honest. If you are okay with that, good for you. That's all.

I am not perfect, but I try to obey game laws all the time. I used to spotlight for yotes and rabbits all the time. A couple years ago while doing it a buddy said to me "Too bad this is illegal, it is a lot of fun". I had no clue that it was against the law and haven't done it since.

I get so worked up about this because we make ourself look like asses when we decide as hunters what laws to accept and what ones to ignore. Look at all of the problems they have had in other states with poachers shooting bucks in the winter and hanging the heads in a tree to decompose until spring so they look like a winterkill. This law it to protect the animals yet it is more important for some of us to have that antler at any cost. It it is like most laws, it is there to stop the 5% that are doing wrong and not the 95% of us that just stumbled upon the animal. I think I'm wasting my time so I'll just leave it at that.

PS antlerless, the original post was great, I also think that the law could be changed to allow room for an investigation on each case. Agree 100%. But until then, I stand by my posts.

Andy

elknutz · Mar 8, 2007

Andyman
I realize that I probably sounded like alot of jackasses I read on these forums. Not my intentions. I understand that abiding by the law is important to the future of this sport also. I would hope that those who poach an animal and leave it to decompose with the idea of returning for the horns have a hard time living with themselves for such blatent disregard for the law. What I would hope is that someone who reads this forum might have a little pull or have the opportunity to bring such things up in a dwr or rac meeting. Maybe there is an obvious reason for the law. I had probably better do more research on the topic. Anyone with any comments? How well are CO and WY wildlife officers doing with it being legal? Is it a problem or is it managed well?

Boots · Mar 8, 2007

LAST EDITED ON Mar-08-07 AT 03:00PM (MST)[p]In all my years I have heard of only one guy I suspect of poaching a deer and claiming it as a winter kill.

I have FOUND a dead buck (cougar kill) with antlers sawn off, a guy with a quad was there first and left it bald ha ha, and IMO not alot of quad shed hunters would leave bone in the field if found as the cougar kill above.

What makes me think thats a cougar kill?. It is licked clean before the antlers have a chance to lighten from the sun. A natural or poached dead animal usually wont be found so well eaten IMH experience.

All that said I think the law keeps poachers from putting an automatic wall up to LEO when caught with a fresh set of anlters. It would be nice to know if the conviction rate is up in the 10 or so years since the law was implemented. Sadly, such data isnt provided.

antlerless · Mar 8, 2007

Well you see i think that by the f$g making it rewarding for reporting these animals that are found more would get reported. Therefore the numbers of wildlife would be more accurate. This is why i say an honest man can become a criminal in a hurry. I try and abide by the laws the best i can and don't encourage others not to abide by the law but it makes you feel like you have done something wrong for just finding a skull no matter what you do or don't do with it.

"SAY NO TO BIG ANTLERS"

cmiddleton · Mar 8, 2007

in wyoming if you buy a interstate game tag and take a g&f officer to the site and they determan its a winterkill you can have it. the problem is getting a g&f officer to go with you. i have tried three times and none were willing to do it.
the racks are still in the hills.

Boots · Mar 9, 2007

Looking at the "Shedding phenom" you would think the F$G would take advantage of all those eyes and ears to help them.

Kinda seems like they want to keep the public and all that "in the field" intel at arms length, doesnt it..?

rutnbuck · Mar 9, 2007

Ok say you do get a citation for picking up a winter kill head!! Then say you get one because you left your fishing license home on accident. Well 2-3 misdemeanors and they can suspend your hunting fishing!! Not worth it. I think the law is out of line. DWR is suppose to manage wildlife not keep your horns/skulls you found. The law needs to be revised. Say if you can prove it just my thoughts.
Ok say I found a dead duck and told them where it was, are they going to come take it? Or can I have it??

Rutnbuck