high fence- america,africa,new zealand?

3

300wbymann

Guest
i've brought it up in a couple posts, but people seem to get offended before answering the question.

why do you think it's different? ( it does seem to be excepted differently depending on where it took place)

we've all seen it.guy shoots the selway bitteroot bull, and he's going to get blasted on here.
but a high % of the africa hunts/ new zealand hunts are in a fence- and it's not a big deal.

i personally dont care how anyone hunts- as long as it makes YOU happy, thats what it's all about.

so without starting another big fight, i'd just like to know what the difference is that makes one different from the other?
( i really hope i put that as "politically correct" as possible, to how i'm not bagging on anyone.)
 
I think I may have brought up the question around the same time as you so I'm willing to go down with the ship with you if it sinks :)

I really don't have a problem with someone hunting behind a high fence anywhere, I just don't think them "hunters" in most cases should get the same praise or adoration as guys hunting public lands or wilderness areas who end up successful.
 
I don't think there is a difference. The only thing that sets one fenced ranch appart from another is size. The bigger the better. Anything under 10,000ac would be to small for me to hunt. I have hunted them a few times and had a great time.
 
Reply, I'm in too. I see these guys sitting in permanent shooting blinds right over a rare water source on high fence concession hunts in Africa all the time. At least i used to, i turn them off now. Hope these guys feel like big shots, good for them, but they don't impress me. No interest, none, i don't care if it is Africa!

Joey
 
ive hunted both high fence africa and free range and high fence is hands down 10x more difficult. freerange africa animals get little pressure compared to high fenced hunting and therefore are considered tame by my standards. the high fence places in lots of places take tons of hunters in one year. animals can be seen in quantity from a truck but if it stops or someone is on foot look out lol. now when u hunt over water i think its canned hunting. i mean come on. when its your only source of water do u think its actually ambushing an animal? i dont think so.

now as a case for my story let me do an extreme example. for the largest kudu i shot i hunted a 3000 acre high fenced ranch. my ph swore he saw a giant standing on the fence driving home one night. he begged the owner to let us hunt and eventually talked the guy into it. well the place was coverex with 10 feet tall grass and 4 daus into the hunt we still hadnt seen a kudu. i took me sitting on a trail in the grass and 8 days hunting before that thing finally wAlked down the wrong trail and was shot at 30 yards. now this year i hunted a free range cattle ranch in the natal area of south africa for nyala. on my second day i shot a giNt 29" nyala after passing tons like it. the were so tame u could walk within 30 yards of them before they would run. this are wAs completely free rAnge but since it is only hunted 3 times a year the game is kinda tame. the last group to hunt thag place waz marcus latrel with the baretta film crew. and let me add that those animals were very docile. i actually felt a little bad shooting some of the animals.
 
>............should get the
>same praise or adoration as
>guys hunting public lands or
>wilderness areas....

.......If you are doing this for praise or adoration, or if you are awarding same to others, you need to reevaluate your priorities. Killing chit ain't special......unless you did it with a spear!

I am WAY more impressed by someones' talent with Photoshop than their talent with a Winchester!

I have no opinion one way or the other on the original question.
 
A fence is a fence for sure. But what is the difference when a very TV show personality goes to a state where the landowner has been watching a 220+ buck all year long and keeping him well fed and everybody off the property until this person can arrive and shoot him? It was a big buck for sure and there were not any fences on the property that would keep a deer in but he had food and water and no reason to leave. Not much hunt there but it did not have a fence so I guess that is different. This debate can go on for days and we can all agree to disagree and that is what makes this forum great and the world go round and round. Good luck to all in the WY results tomorrow.
 
I don't hunt for anyone's "praise and adoration", so I suspect it is highly unlikely you will ever see me on your TV. It is far easier to acquire the requisite TV footage for television shows, however, when hunting behind a fence. A lot of folks can't seem to tell the difference.

Your premise is flawed. TV shows do not accurately reflect the norm in hunting anywhere. Sort of like all cop shows really show what it is like to be a police officer.

For me personally, I'm not interested in hunting for "trophy" animals behind a high fence. In general, I won't knowingly hunt anywhere that "put and take" style hunting is practiced. I have shot a few farm raised pheasants, and killed a few hogs in Texas that were not particularly wild. And yes, I was even encouraged once in Africa to venture to a small high fenced area. Personally, I want to be in an area where the game is reproducing naturally, and can otherwise be expected to live out its life cycle without major manipulation by man. Some fenced properties are much larger than naturally occurring populations. Property size is relative to terrain and habitat. Some Alaskan islands are rather small, and still have huntable populations of deer and bear that qualify for fair chase by any standard.
Trying to make some definitive statement about the "quality" or "ethics" of another's hunt is counter productive. Hunt for the "right" reasons yourself, realize the impact you will have on our sport in the long run, and act accordingly. Aldo Leupold said it very well many years ago. Our sport is peculiar in that their are no spectators and winners, so we are left to our own devices to conduct ourselves appropriately. (Very loosely paraphrased).
Bill
 
Kilo and Overton had a similar argument. Kilo accused Overton of being less of a man because of his tendencies to shop for love at Donna's. Overton said it was no different than a high end night club except for his scouting was short and straight to the point. Furthermore, Overton said it is more practical as they have field undressing stations at the ready once you bag your game.
4abc76ff29b26fc1.jpg
 
Depends on many different criteria, such as size of property, available vegatation, contour of land, species and size of animal, time of year/rut, etc.

Bottom line - Does the animal being pursued have a reasonable chance of eluding the hunter? Yes or No. End of decision process.
 
For me it all depends on the species and where it is at. I have no interest in hunting a migratory animal in a high fence. Like the deer and elk here in southern utah. But you can bet if I was wealthy enough to ever own a large chunk of land in texas. I would fence it off and manage the herd for genetics and age class. In Africa I would do the same. I completely understand why people are against it. But my personal outlook on it is its very rewarding to watch your property get better through management.
 
Ultimately, I believe high-fence hunts do damage to our interest in keeping hunting legal. There is no doubt that a portion of our population is vehemently anti-hunting (see PETA etc). While extremely annoying, these clowns stand little chance of stopping us from participating in a sport we love. Of more significance to pro-hunting interest is the large majority of people who do not participate in hunting but do not oppose the activity. It is this group of people that has the potential to cause problems.
The gambling industry understands this scenario very well. When the US population is polled, somewhere around 60% of the population is OK with the existence of legalized commercial gambling, while a smaller percentage is strongly pro. The industry recognizes that its existence relies on the 60%, many of whom do not ever touch a slot machine or play a single and of blackjack. This 60% drops to around 30%, if asked whether they are OK with the existence on legalized online gambling. Until very recently, the major players in the US casino industry have been reluctant to push for online legalization and even now some of the major players are still remaining silent on the issue. The fear is that online legalization could threaten their current businesses. For example if news stories hit the US public that feature underage gamblers losing large sums of money. This might quickly generate a majority of Americans strongly anti all forms of legalized gambling.
I would argue that high-fence operations pose a similar threat to the interests of all hunters. The public at large is not particularly sophisticated regarding what hunting involves. Any message the public hears that combines sport hunting and fences does not serve our interest. The public most likely already feels that we have an unfair advantage with our high-powered rifles. They don't have the knowledge to understand how difficult it is to get within a few hundred yards of a trophy mule deer. It is important that we present as positive a message as possible. I do not see how fences serve our interests - they just sound bad.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-24-11 AT 06:46AM (MST)[p]i think the boone and crocket doesn't acknoledge high fence animals ? enough said...........
 
Two words FAIR CHASE! Fences are for rich pricks that cant pull off a real hunt on their own and people that are affraid of being unsuccessful because it might hurt their ego.


4afddbfa2842588e.jpg
 
Boone and Crockett also has deductions which is the dumbest thing I have heard of. Glad the animals can choose how their horns grow and that they are off a little bit on one side compared to the other. Fair chase is also in the eyes of the beholder. What is fair chase to one is not fair chase to another.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-24-11 AT 09:30AM (MST)[p]

Post #14 is about the lamest statement I've seen on the Forums since yesterday unless you are referring to the small acreage "canned" stuff, LOL!!! Many ranches down in Texas are so big that you wouldn't know there was a high fence around them unless someone told you and took you out to show you. The ranch next to where I used to hunt was high fenced, covered 30,000 acres, and was strictly a working cattle ranch that also had big deer because they could control hunter numbers and animals taken. Don't tell me anyone hunting on a big spread like that comes under your definitions for God's sake!!! Now a "canned hunt" (I call them "shoots" because that's what they are) on minimal acreage where the animal has no chance to live a normal life, breed, and escape from "shooters" is a completely different story. B&C might not allow an animal inside any high fence to go into their book, but that 30,000 acre spread in the south Texas brush country is more "fair chase" than poster #14 would ever know, LOL!!!
 
The high fence hunts I'm referring to are the very small acreage hunts where success is 100% guaranteed. We've all seen them. I've seen fenced hunts from 100 acres down to 20 acres and the animals are nothing but target practice. I'm not talking about the big Texas ranches or some of the conservancies in Africa. I'd consider them about as fair chase as a non fenced area. Heck I think the Save Conservancy in Africa, which is 845,000 acres is fenced, but hunting there is as wild as anywhere.
 
Blueoak (953 posts)
Jun-24-11, 08:57 AM (MST)
17. "RE: high fence- america,africa,new zealand?"
A third thing about high fenced hunts is that narrow minded folks like you are not there!


Blueoak----Who is the "narrow minded folks like you"? I ask this because your post was put up right after mine with no reference to anyone else and that usually means you are speaking to the immediately preceeding poster! I don't think you are in this particular instance, so I hope you are referring to post #14.
 
In this day and age hunting (the way most of us on this site do it) is a RECREATIONAL activity at its core. Something that allows us to get away from the normal day-to-day and ENJOY some free time.

Seems odd that the subject of where or how someone else chooses to spend thier leisure time can even be a matter of debate. Crazy "argument" if you ask me.
 
Not odd at all to debate a subject like this! It has to do with what some call "Hunting" that can affect what in many of our lives is a passion or obsession for fair chase. Shooting animals that have no chance at survival in a small enclosure means that the majoritie's way could be lessened or eliminated by what others do and is looked upon as negative by the whole of society!!!
 
I've hunted Zimbabwe, South Africa and Namibia and haven't hunted a high fenced area. I will not say those that do are unsporting, I'm sure not the judge of that. Usually most of my experience in Africa in seeing the high fenced areas they encompass a lot more land than in the U.S.

I don't personally hunt for the record book although I do try to take the largest animal possible, like most of us do: unless just filling the freezer. If you are hunting for the reason of getting your name in a record book in my opinion you're hunting for the wrong reason. Everyone has their own preference. In N.A. I am almost always a solo hunter unless I take a kid along because that's what I enjoy.

Shot driven pheasants once on Roger Hale's estate in England to me it felt like cheating. Most English would argue that's the only sporting way.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-24-11 AT 11:04AM (MST)[p]Whether public land or high fenced, at the end of the day what counts is the personal satisfaction and fulfillment of the hunt.

Eldorado
 
I can understand some of the hangups certain folks might have regarding fences, and I've got no problem with that. Hunt behind them or not, it's all good.

But either way the bottom line is we hunt for many different reasons, (time outdoors, time with family, meat in the freezer, horns on the wall) but all those point back to self-satisfaction and enjoyment.

Still seems crazy to try and debate how another guy chooses to spend his free time and expendable income. Even crazier to tell a guy he shouldn't choose to spend his time and money a certain way. :)
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-24-11 AT 11:36AM (MST)[p]
No offense guys, but IMHO that type of attitude doesn't help others who are engrained with the animal having a fair chance to escape. When someone goes into a 50 acre enclosure and is satisfied and fulfilled as all get out to wack an animal that doesn't have a chance at escape means, IMHO, it's time to speak out against such stuff being included as hunting. That type of butchering and killing has nothing to do with hunting as the fair chase sport we all know it to be. Those on the fence, and it's the vast majority of nonhunting voters, that think that "canned" stuff is representative of all hunting and hunters as a whole, need to be advised that it's not representative before we are all voted out of our sport. Don't think it can't happen the way this country is going at the present time! That is why I have to disagree with posts that feel it's none of our business as to how others "recreate", as one post put it!
 
Eldorado +1

Topgun we can agree to disagree. What I do or don't do in my life has no bearing on your life and what you do is the same in reverse. How I recreate is up to me, no more no less.

I think the small enclosures are not for me but I know of a guy that is what he enjoys as his days are extremely limited and he wants to shoot something and pays a high price for it. Not my thing but he enjoys it and in my mind that is all that matters.

Now when someone brags about their hunt and makes a huge adventure out of a ranch hunt then I think that is a joke.

Get outside and enjoy the outdoors and take your kids and grandkids and grandparents.

A buddy of mine filmed a hunt in a few thousand acre ranch and the kid is addicted to hunting but does not have legs and getting around in a hunting environment is extremely hard. He shot an average six point but for him it was and will always be a big deal and his family was there to share. Yes it was fenced but it was a once in a lifetime experience for that kid and his family.
 
I can see your point TOPGUN, and I understand that your main concern seems to be the image of hunting as a whole to the non-hunting (not anti) public. That's good.

The question is, what should be done? Ban "canned" hunts? That seems a bit like handing a murderer a gun so he can shoot you ya know?

Pretty much just giving the "evil ones" a quick step in the right direction there...they want to start by banning fenced hunts, then move on to the rest. If WE fight to ban fenced hunts, the "evil ones" first (and most difficult) step to banning ALL hunting is already taken care of, we made the first cut in our own throats...

The other big question is, where do you draw the line on what is canned and what isn't? How big does the place have to be to be ok? How high does the fence have to be to be considered high? Is it only for certain species of animals? So many issues and questions...

So my position is the same...hunting is done by and large for recreation, and there is no concrete definition of what hunting "should be", no matter how much sometimes we'd like there to be. For us it might be chasing elk in Wyoming wilderness, but for someone else it might be shooting a whitetail behind a fence in Texas during a half-day trip. Both hunters are happy in the end, they've worked thier butts off every day and want to spend some free time doing something that makes them smile.

I'm not trying to change your mind at all, just stating my opinions, we all have them. :)
 
Ive been on a high fence ranch,its like shooting livestock,not hunting by any defenition.
 
Okay, I'll probably get lynched for this statement, but WTH, it's just my opinion as I'm not actually going out trying to put these places OB! If the friggin places had never been allowed to get a foothold in the first place we wouldn't be having this discussion of how big and how high, etc. By letting them get started raising what we refer to as wild animals, especially with no minimum size requirements, was the first big mistake IMO. Now I have to agree with you guys that it's up to the individual whether I like it or not because who is to say 100 acres is big enough to hunt hogs, but not for deer, etc. Please realize that the ones I'm sick of are the real small places that are more into raising the animals in a pen and then letting a few loose when a party pays to come in and shoot them in the "bigger" 50 acre parcel. I have no problem with the scenario just mentioned of the kid and his family as that sounds pretty much like a challenge for him in a decent size place. On the other hand, I wonder if they would have done that for him in a place like I'm talking about how he and the family would have felt. This and the "Best of the West" type long range shooting just to kill an animal that you could stalk and take at a closer distance are probably the two biggest pains in my butt that I get involved with in on website Forums. I wish I could just keep it all in and not post on this stuff, but I'm not that way and am an opinionated person who is not scared to voice my opinion and that's all it is. FYI I'll be 64 in a few weeks and was just not brought up to do some of the stuff that younger generations seem to have no problem with. Nuff said!!!
 
Size matters!

I don't think even the strongest arguers against high fenced hunts EQUATES a hunt in a 50 acre enclosure to an African hunt on 80,000 acres under high fencing.

"Fair chase" is another subject altogether.

I guess since Boone and Crockett only scores North American game, Arican game falls out of its scope and rules for scoring.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
Guess that makes me a canned hunter since I went to South Africa and hunted a 300,000 acre property with 3 foot high sheep fences here and there keep the sheep and a few breeding springbok in certain areas. The kudu, springbok, and other antelope species did not have much trouble clearing those fences.
 
is there a correlation between success rates and the ease of a hunt? many on here dont think that riding around in your pickup until you see the first spike or 2 point and blasting him from the road is really "hunting". It has also been said that hiking 100 miles a day and turnging over every rock in the back country isn't the only definition of hunting either.

High fence hunts are as cool as shooting the cow in your grandma's pasture. pet the cow, feed the cow.... pet the cow... shoot the cow as you feed the cow... fun stuff!!!

MOST high fence hunts have animals that arent very afraid of people or as afraid/leary as their free ranging brothers and sisters across the fence.

Why don't these guys pay a guide and hunt on public land... because of the ease of shooting sally in the pasture.

I dont want to be lumped in with those that are high fence animal killers. I'm a hunter. I want to be grouped only with hunters.

just my 2 cents



It was a big bodied 2 point.
 
In the end it's the memories that matter; doesn't matter if they happen behind a fence in TX or in the Alaskan Wilderness.

But how it's slightly different is it limits deer dispersal and sometimes natural browse options. EX: We cater to whitetails like no other with supplemental feeding and food plots, but come Oct when the acorns start falling, those pets (that you can basically hand feed) in the back yard will drop down a cpl miles to the hardwood river bottom.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-24-11 AT 08:02PM (MST)[p]th3006---Unless you're talking about real small acreage high fence places you are talking again without the knowledge needed to make your statements. As an example, have you ever been in the terrain and vegetation in the hill country north of San Antonio, TX or the brush country to the south of there all the way down to Mexico? If you haven't, I could take you down there and bet you good money that even on a high fence place of say only a section that you won't know it and will not be petting what you shoot! That's if you are lucky enough to see anything to shoot, so I would suggest you not make blanket statements like you tend to do sometimes on subjects that appear to be beyond your knowledge as a youngster. What I just mentioned is why this particular subject is so hard to discuss because of varied terrain, vegetation, and acreage, as well as the particular animal being hunted and what that particular animal needs to elude the hunter for what most would call a legitimate hunt. Hogs or deer in my scenario might be real tough to hunt, whereas if it was a bull elk in the rut it would be almost a slam dunk!
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-24-11 AT 11:47PM (MST)[p]Are some people really this stupid lol..

Why does it even bother them what someone wants to do?

I'd say there is a difference between a 350 square mile, fenced ranch than a 50 acre ranch. But, that's just my own nieve thinking lol....
 
AHHH.......The "ethics police", teamed up with the "self righteous".

Just about the time I get to feeling real comfy about the people on here, one of these topics comes up and proves to me that every concentration of people, is made up of 15% azzholes!

This idea that "I am better than you are, because I do it this way".....is simply a sign that one is an illiterate, obnoxiouis, fool!

"whackin' a surly bartender ain't much of a crime"
 
I'm for sure part of the 15% (plenty of ppl have told me so) but the day folks tell others what they can and can't do with their properties is the day every landowner in America gets screwed.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-24-11 AT 10:02PM (MST)[p]Nickman---Nobody is saying they are any better than anybody else on here because of the way they do things. Your obnoxious comments are more appropriate to yourself for posting such BS because your reading comprehension is obviously zilch!!! As stated by one of the other members, all I'm interested in is all of us continuing to be able to participate in our sport and some of the crap going on today in these small places, whether legal or not, is not helping our cause as a whole to do that.

tx_packmule---If you don't think what you have mentioned is already happening here in the US the way the Libs are taking over, you had better pull your head out of wherever it is!
 
This post have developed into the perfect storm. We as hunters out number the anti's by sheer volume but we are split and argue amongst ourselves and the anti's are very united in their cause. Sad but true. We all have the same passion and keep bitching at each other about this and that. Look at all the opinions in this one post alone.
 
>LAST EDITED ON Jun-24-11
>AT 10:02?PM (MST)
>

>
>tx_packmule---If you don't think what you
>have mentioned is already happening
>here in the US the
>way the Libs are taking
>over, you had better pull
>your head out of wherever
>it is!

In HOAs, zoning and such, but not much happening here out in the country in terms of landowners rights. No regs on fences, tax breaks on timber and ag, etc.. The fences can be turned into tax write-offs... Not sure what is happening to LOs in other areas.
 
I beg to differ with you because until one nincompoop came on here like he usually does calling people a lot of obnoxious names IMO the posts had been mostly ones of mutual respect for the various opinions stated. If these small places I'm talking about continue to proliferate, I will wager money that sooner or later our future generations of hunters will be voted out of our sport by the masses who greatly outnumber us thinking that's the way we all do it! If that doesn't concern all fair chase hunters, and to some on here it evidently doesn't and they don't think it will happen, then I feel they are wrong and that's all I'm saying.
 
I was referring more to city areas where they are damn near telling people what color they have to paint their house, fence style, color and size, etc. I doubt that too many negative things are happening out in rural areas like you stated, but it is sure happening where people live closer together. I don't know if you saw the headline a couple weeks ago, but one small town that got hit hard by a tornado wouldn't even allow FEMA to bring in temporary trailers for people that lost their homes because they didn't meet the codes in place---WTF is the matter with people when a guy doesn't even have a roof over his head and crap like that happens? It's stuff like that that makes me feel the way I do about the majority who are on the fence about hunting and could vote us right out of our sport. Look at all the bans on trspping, baiting bears, running cats with hounds, etc. If small chunks of our heritage are being taken away by all these city dwellers that don't know a cow from a tree, I just fear that down the road more bad things are going to happen. Portraying these small enclosures where the animals don't have a chance as legitimate hunting that all hunters do is another stepping stone to abolish the entire sport IMHO. The wolf debacle alone with all the antis filing suits to keep us from bringing wolves under control is decimating the game herds in certain spots is another example of a few ruining it for the whole and it will continue if people don't get together on stuff and take a stand. End of rant---sorry!
 
High fence is the best thing the antis have going for them,promote it and you are promoting the end of hunting.
 
I understand and it's not just the libs doing such in the cities, there are plenty of small towns (pop.<2000) that are set up the same way around here to keep the property values up. The HOAs are generally set up with property values in mind, thought some things are a little weird. (like not allowed to have flags outside, boats parked in the driveway for more than 24 hours). Have had to deal with FEMA in one of those type towns and what eventually happened was they leased land and basically set up a trailer park outside of town. After they are used, then just kind of set around; 6 years after Katrina there are still trailers sitting outside of Houma, LA. Bad deal no matter how you look at it, but it would tick folks off to know that some of the folks are still being put up in nicer places by the govt. (EX: Condos & townhomes in Houston & San Antonio) When it comes to wolves, I would side with the ranchers every single time and after going through Yellowstone at the beginning of the month, I'm beginning to think that they'll sacrifice animals & livestock for marketing b/c that's all I saw at the shops in Y-stone.
 
this topic isn't cut and dry thats why we all have our own opinions about it.

Since i can't say that a ranch with 250,000 acres and 10ft fences is a canned hunt and one with 250,001 acres high fence is like the real deal you just have to lump all of them in together. Nobody can say. How many high fence hunts are 100% free range game? how many of the big game animals are fed,etc by those who own them?
I can see your point TG about hunting animals in the rut with rifles and that is why i bow hunt.


If you hunt a high fence ranch like DESERET with all the terrain and acreage then you can be called a hunter I guess. but If you are like that guy who shot that huge black bear in a one acre high fence enclosure then you are out. you arean animal taker not a hunter.

Its just my 2 cents. I get alot of flack sometimes on here because I am 22. I think with age comes wisdom but so does closemindedness (for those with eye problems... (close...minded..ness). You are like an old tree trunk. it takes nothing short of ripping you out to get you to change positions. I hope I stay "young"








It was a big bodied 2 point.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-25-11 AT 02:01PM (MST)[p]th3006---I'd give anything to be 22 again, but still be retired and know what I know at almost 3 times your age, LOL! Please bear with me from time when I come across as a know it all, because I will readily admit I'm not, but with age comes knowledge as the old saying goes! I think I can safely say that the big acreages I'm talking about in Texas are as free range and fair chase as anywhere without the high fences. However, almost all the private properties down there, regardless of size and whether it's low or high fencing, have spin feeders to throw corn and/or other supplemental nutritional pellets. Some only use them to draw deer and other game out of the thick brush during the hunting seasons, while others feed year around. Also, most of the hunting is done from elevated blinds in order to see over the thick, high brush that is prevalent. It's a unique geographic area that has certains ways of hunting that are almost all that can be used because of the terrain and vegetation you are dealing with. Some think it isn't ethical to hunt that way, while to Texans it's the only way. I enjoyed hunting the three low fence places we had leased down there during my earlier years and they encompassed a section, then 1000 acres, and the last one was a little over 2,000 acres. I much prefer the open spot/stalk type of hunting I'm into now out West, but would also do the Texas hunts in a heartbeat if the ranches were still available because the variety of animals you might see in a days hunt was pretty cool. I think your last post pretty well sums up the way I feel about fences and it varies from no problem with the big places to what you said about the bear hunter! Yep, in a way I'm like an old oak with deep roots, but I hope you realize that because of my age I've had a lot more time to think about a lot of stuff and develop my "deep-rooted" opinions while you are just getting your feet wet on some of them. Hey, I hope you are getting the wife some good shooting time with the 30-06 because I want to see a picture of her with a big bull on the ground come this Fall. Peace Bro, as we are always pretty much on the same page on most things after we talk it out a little bit---MIKE
 
We have spin feeders but not feeding protein at most of our places, but will start at some point. In fact, don;t even have feeders running now like we usually do because we developed a problem and trying to get them to move on.

EXAMPLE OF PROBLEM BELOW

Mrose-Xmas343.jpg


I'm hunting strictly LF now, but was raised hunting high fence and with the acreage you really can't tell the difference between the two.

As far as cover goes and why things are done that way, you can take a look behind this feeder at how thick places are...and this is East TX, South TX is much worse and everything will either poke, bite or sting you.

mrose8-28122.jpg


despite being LF, I saw every one of those bucks during season after they split up in mid-Sept.


IMHO, the fences are way more difficult to deal with than LF. Once you've done it & fenced, you're invested and if you love deer, you just gave yourself the responsibility to manage them to carrying capacity and providing for them what mother nature won't. (That's not cheap) It honestly turns fun hunting into WORK if you're the one having to take care of everything.
 
Let's have a reality check here.

WE.....Hunters.
THEY....Antis.

There are no "anti hunting" organizations.

There are anti "kill for sport" organizations. They could care less about terms like high fence, fair chase, ethical hunting, game management, etc, etc, etc. All they care about is that we are killing animals.... period. Dead is dead.

Thinking that a fenced in operation is somehow more offensive to them, is simply stupid. It may be more offensive to YOU and the way you think of hunting, but to think that they care, is simply another way for you to justify slamming someone elses' choice, as opposed to yours.

If you think you can convince a bunch of nature fakers that there is somehow a better way to KILL stuff, either you don't know any of them, or you are dreaming. They don't split hairs.

They have "evolved" beyond any necessity to hunt, fish or accept ANY blood sport. To them and their ilk, there is NO reason, whatsoever, to kill any wild animal, even under the heading of "management".....and in their circle, they are absolutely right and can prove it.

In their mind, there is NO justification for any of it....fences, scopes, helicopters, or WHATEVER we choose to use, is not relevant.

At the point where you make the statement..."ammo for antis", you are simply dividing the hunting community. They don't NEED any ammo at all; natures rights, maturity, economics, safety, ecology and dozens of other things they spout are sufficient reasons for their cause.

The bottom line here is, if a fenced operation isn't right for you, don't hunt there. If someone else does, so what?

Get over your self-righteous self!

"whackin' a surly bartender ain't much of a crime"
 
Nickman:

Your posts crack me up. You are right; the
antis do not care how we kill things.

Everyone can hunt how and where they want
to hunt!
 
Ruff said, "Everyone can hunt how and where they want
to hunt!"

But that don't mean that i personally have to like it, watch it on TV, or participate in that kind of...shooting.

It's not the antis that we have to concern ourselves with, they are a given. It's the majority of people out there that are on the fence. They care not one way or the other about hunting. Perceived "cage hunts" by trophy hunters does not go over well with the average Tom, Mary, or Harry who definitely will have the swing votes if it ever gets down to that.

Joey
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-25-11 AT 06:12PM (MST)[p]Nickman---Your reading comprehension is still zilch, nada, zippo. We are not talking about the antis just as Joey stated. If you would read SLOWLY or stop and digest things before calling people names, you would see that I have said in my post bascially what you have stated. It's not those antis that we need to worry about. It's the vast majority of the middle of the road people who are on the fence and haven't committed one way or the other about hunting and don't normally go out of their way to try to stop it. If those people are shown enough of these small places that the antis are representing as the way all of us hunt and are able to get enough signatures on a referendum to put it to a vote of the populace I guarantee that we will lose. That is exactly what happened here in Michigan several years ago when we got a three year period to hunt doves and after that three years was up it was to be decided whether to continue the seasons or not. The antis showed doves on wires and at bird feeders and convinced enough of the old folks, bird watchers, and people on the fence that it would be a slaughter, electric lines would be shot, the doves were too small to eat, etc. It went to a vote and WE LOST by a 7 to 1 margin. You can make fun of this and declare that all some of us want is for people to hunt like we do and that's not what it's all about. It's about ANY of us being able to hunt by ANY method if things keep going like they are, so don't say it's not possible when some of us have already seen pieces of our hunting heritage taken away from us.
 
well i see this post kinda got off topic, and arguementetive(sp?) just like i was hoping it WOULDN'T do.

it's a simple question,one that nickhead is having issues with, why can someone sit behing a 500" red stag, that was killed behind a fence and it's cool vs. a person sitting behind a 500" rocky mt. elk and it is bagged on by 95%+ of everyone?

again, i dont really care how anyone hunts. i wouldn't spend my money on a high fenced hunt, but if you have the extra money - go ahead.
 
Bc a stag is something a lot of people will never have the opportunity to hunt, with the elk, folks can easily hunt them in the states and it becomes a holier than thou kind of thing bc the only way to hunt them is DIY on BLM to have it count. Sometimes it's a money thing; you even see that attitude showing up toward NRs who buy their way into units.
 
I try and not worry about high fence and some of the other approaches to hunting today. All of this is in the name of progress if you want to call it progress. We have came along way since throwing spears at animals in the stone age and just think where we are today: food plots, fenced in animals, camcorders, compound bows vs recurve, long range shooting, ATV's, etc.... and just think most of this new technology has arrived in the last 25 - 30 years. There may be a way to slow down some of the changes but most likely in the long term, it will continue to happen. Some of us remember the ole days and want to keep it that way, some relish in the new stuff. I may have a preference on where I would like to see hunting today but others also have a right to their opinion. I guess time will tell where all of this is heading. I do know that those ole timers that remember times different will be gone soon and it will be up to the young generation to determine the future of hunting. I only hope we don't get to placing microchips in new born animals so we can follow them and not have to actually hunt just kill.

Wildsage
 
TOPGUN,

If any one asks I won't admit it, but you have sort of changed my opinion about high fence hunts in a way. I guess i can't really knock it until i have tried it. Maybe a little texas hunt is in my future???



It was a big bodied 2 point.
 
th3006---You may or may not like to hunt the way I mentioned most do it down in Texas. The country is so unique that it's about the only way to do it. I liked it as a change of pace from Wyoming because in any one sit you might see the biggest whitetail walking the planet, as well as turkey, bobcat, civet cat, coyote, and of course feral hogs. I had more fun shooting those than anything down there because I was helping the ranchers control them and the smaller one are fantastic eating. My mouth was watering when I saw that gang of hogs in the picture up above that our East Texas member posted. Doing one of those smaller ones whole on a BBQ spit is unbelievably good.
 
I hate those things with a passion. It's my life mission to kill every single one of them that ever thinks of getting around a hay field.
 
.........."that is why I have to disagree that it is none of our business how other folks recreate".......and next week, let's start a campaign to ban rifles with scopes.

"whackin' a surly bartender ain't much of a crime"
 
NONYAMT---I see you're on here flapping your gums again---WTH was that last post all about as I don't believe anybody has said there aren't a bunch of anti-hunting organizations around!!!

Nickman---How about we just start a campaign to eliminate stupid posts like that last one of yours, LOL!!!
 
Come on NICKMAN, I love your passion dude but if you really think it doesn't matter to hunting in general then you are sorely mistaken.

I do agree with your take on the actual "Antis" but like SAGEADVICE said, it's the ones on the fence that truly matter.

I am a Hunter and proud of it, outwardly so. I work in an office environment and I have pictures of dead things my family and friends have killed all over it. I have a boar skull on my desk, etc... Now, I am not bragging, I am trying to make a point. I get asked questions about hunting all of the time from people in the office, who are what I would call "Fence Sitters" and I am glad to answer their questions. However, I don't take that opportunity to go overboard and brag about my adventures. I take that opportunity to explain the intricacies of game management and conservation to them.

Believe it or not, 99% of the time I get responses like "Well, if it is fair chase then I guess I am OK with it", or "Well, if you eat your animals then I am OK with it".

So you see it does matter to them and we have a responsibility to portray what hunting is really all about.

Different strokes for different folks, granted but don't think it doesn't affect others opinions of our hunting heritage, or what most of them refer to as a "Sport".

For me it is all about being in the outdoors with good friends and family and making memories.


As far as my take on High Fence, It think it really comes down to common sense (which is not all that common), and the critters ability to avoid you. I say that very loosely and I do so intentionally.


"The problem with quotes on Internet Forums is that it is often difficult to verify their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln
 
O_S_O_K---Excellent post and exactly what I have been trying to get across whenever this subject comes up!!!
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-27-11 AT 06:48PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jun-27-11 AT 06:47?PM (MST)

Maybe you should read the posts above mine...thats how this thing works,we reply to the posts above our own...if you wernt so busy looking for an excuse to act like a moron you might have read..
"There are no "anti hunting" organizations."

"I actually agree with NONYA on this."
MTMuley
 
Nickman wasn't saying that as such, as his next sentence stated the anti organizations were basically against all killing and not just in the hunting context. The more I read your responses calling people names for no reason other than to make yourself feel like a bigshot is respulsive and whether you realize it or not I suspect all the members brush most of your posts off like I do as just more BS!!! How old are you, as I sense that you're a young punk that hasn't grown up yet whether you're 20 or 40 with your continual attempts to demean people and act like a know it all! That's easy to do on the net, but I'll bet you're not that way in person or you'd probably be going around with a swollen lip most of the time, LOL!
 
Your post just put you up as the front runner for hypocrite of the year.Read what you wrote about me and then read what you said immediately after.
These organizations specifically target TROPHY HUNTING,not just killing in any form,read their literature and maybe you will get a better idea of their agenda.


"I actually agree with NONYA on this."
MTMuley
 
So now you're running a contest that you've already won numerous time huh, LOL!!! Yep, still shooting your mouth off and calling people names instead of showing proof, rather than conjecture for what you post! These antis don't even want an ant stepped on or a blood sucking mosquito killed! This is a C/P from Nickman's post that's right on about these organizations: "They have "evolved" beyond any necessity to hunt, fish or accept ANY blood sport. To them and their ilk, there is NO reason, whatsoever, to kill any wild animal, even under the heading of "management".....and in their circle, they are absolutely right and can prove it."
 
I just posted 2 links to prove it....I think Im going to let you carry on this conversation by yourself,didnt someone post something recently about arguing with idiots?
BTW HSUS kills thousands of animals every year,do some research before you share your "wisdom".
"I actually agree with NONYA on this."
MTMuley
 
Neither link proved what you stated, as I went in both of them before I made my posts! Both links show those organizations are against all kinds of stuff and they are not keying in on trophy hunting like you stated. Now you're back with more name calling, which appears to be about the only thing you are good at! Oh, and by the way I know all about the HSUS, as they euthanize (that means kill, so you don't have to look it up!)approximately 90% of animals they take in as strays according to their own stats. Glad to hear you won't be back with any more BS and I think that statement you mentioned another member posting recently was in reference to you, LOL!
 
I was quoting a previous post,not calling names,you really should go pro,you won this contest hands down!



"I actually agree with NONYA on this."
MTMuley
 
You and SMOKESTICK should get together because it seems neither of you can remember what you said from one post to another! Here is a quote from your post that I answered: "I just posted 2 links to prove it....I think Im going to let you carry on this conversation by yourself,didnt someone post something recently about arguing with idiots?"
Now if you come back and tell me you weren't calling me an idiot by posting that message, then you're dumber than a stump and/or a liar!
 

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