Guess this answers the question.

1911

Long Time Member
Messages
6,197
...as to which way the wind will blow on this legislation.

SALT LAKE CITY (AP) -- Utah Gov. Gary Herbert says he won't let a family connection to a bill that would alter access to Utah waterways sway his decision on whether to sign it.

Herbert's sister and brother-in-law, Connie and Steve Ault, own property along the Provo River. They actively fought for a bill restricting access to rivers and streams that cross private land. The legislation would allow landowners to post signs and close off access to the waterways unless that area has been open for public use for 10 consecutive years since 1982.

Herbert has until Wednesday to sign the bill, veto it or let it go into law without his signature.

Herbert says it doesn't matter what his family says about the bill.

"This bill, for them personally, has absolutely zero effect," Herbert said. "It doesn't matter to me what they say."

Steve Ault said he and his wife got involved in the issue because filth was being left behind on their land.

But he said he and his wife don't plan to try to prevent fishing on the river and they haven't put any pressure on Herbert to sign or veto the bill.

"We try to keep family and politics separate. Some things, of course, intermix," said Steve Ault. "I have told him, 'You do what's in the best interest of the state.' That's all we can expect."

For generations, waters in Utah have been publicly owned and those who want to use them for fishing, boating or other recreation activities have been guaranteed access to the rivers and streams.

In 2008, the Utah Supreme Court ruled that the public has a right to fish, hunt and float the waterways, including incidental contact with privately owned stream beds.

Private landowners objected, saying the ruling eroded their property rights. This legislative session, property owners succeeded in getting a bill passed to change the law.

Several lawmakers who supported the change own land that might be affected by the bill, including Reps. Gage Froerer, R-Huntsville, Mel Brown, R-Coalville, Ben Ferry, R-Corinne, and Mike Noel, R-Kanab.

Rep. Kay McIff, R-Richfield, the sponsor of the legislation, said he believes the 2008 Supreme Court decision harmed constitutionally protected property owners' rights and his legislation was an attempt to restore those rights.

Outdoors groups are urging Herbert to veto the bill.

Herbert has acknowledged that he is being pressured on the bill and wondered if the bill strikes the right balance.

"I think there's concern about the stream access. It's got a lot of energy out there," he said. "We've created a kind of situation where we're adversarial, and I think it's a few that spoil it for the many. There are probably some issues there from a legal standpoint that need to be reviewed to make sure we're doing it exactly right. At the same time, you've got to respect private property rights. That's what's made America great."
4abc76ff29b26fc1.jpg
 
Major Rivers (the bill allows for access to major rivers that are float-able) are not the issue it is all the little streams and tributaries both perennial and ephemeral streams. If it runs in the spring but has no fish but you can follow it up to a pond, lake, or reservoir on private land that does--your fishing.

If you own a hope where city creek or any other stream flows through your back yard, people can now trespass right through your back yard while you sit on your deck with your family and friends having a bar-b-que. The girls camp above Heber City where your daughters go swimming at girls camp will now have fishermen there with them.

If Herbert signs this into law, it will now open up thousands of acres of private property that have water and fish on them. What this really will amount too is a 'take' of private lands by the state of Utah, plain and simple. I would be willing to bet that not one of you who had private lands or had family that had private lands would be for this bill. In my opinion this is an Obama act at its finests. We will all fight heath care but when it comes to private property rights you are all a bunch of socialists.

Todd Black
BTO
 
Toddly, c'mon man, you can't currently walk through someone's backyard to access a stream under the overturned law. You CAN walk into the stream from public access, though. This allowed access to some primo waters for a friend of mine. He then made friends with some of the landowners and now works on their land in exchange for easier access. He did this by working within the law, and his experience has changed perceptions on both sides of the river.

Like the public bridge going into Jordanelle. This new law would once again hand the Provo River over to Victory Ranch. I think it is asinine that one cannot walk a riverbed and fish. Now I agree that it should not include you standing on someone's bank. I totally understand that a private landowner would be rightly pissed off with garbage and such on their land, but I totally disagree that just because you buy riverfront property allows you to own the river,ie, public waters and publically managed species. Kindof like buying a house adjacent to USFS land and then whining about what type of activities should be allowed on said land (Emigration Canyon, for example, where if you are doing anything but holding any type of hunting implement, it's ok).

The problem I have with the bill is this-it essentially reinstates the previous access law that the Utah Supreme Court said was UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

So basically our legislators have once again said to hell with the Constitution, just like they do every year.

What it really comes down to is that a small segment of sportsmen have forgotten common decency. As a result, a small segment of landowners treat the ones who do attempt to gain permission to trespass with contempt and loathing. The end result is no one talking to each other about their true love of the sport.

pred
 
>>If Herbert signs this into law, it will now open up thousands of acres of private property that have water and fish on them. What this really will amount too is a 'take' of private lands by the state of Utah, plain and simple. I would be willing to bet that not one of you who had private lands or had family that had private lands would be for this bill. In my opinion this is an Obama act at its finests. We will all fight heath care but when it comes to private property rights you are all a bunch of socialists.
<<

Todd,

Hey, I'm usually pretty good at reading and understanding what I read. To me, signing the bill into law would do just the opposite of what you stated above. It would eliminate the present access, no? Or did I miss something???



TONY MANDILE
48e63dfa482a34a9.jpg

How To Hunt Coues Deer
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-29-10 AT 01:19PM (MST)[p]Tony you are right--signing the bill would restore private property rights.

Lisa--its already happening from the Conaster decision. As it stands your in the water you have access, its the high water mark--how's that for an enforceable law.

Todd Black
BTO
 
I thought you all might want some more education on the subject....


THE NEED TO RESPECT PRIVATE PROPERTY
Representative Kay McIff

I write to clarify the reasons behind my sponsorship of House Bill 141 dealing with public access to streams on private property. The bill is designed to provide reasonable access without doing violence to constitutional protections. One of the lessons of this experience is how quickly we forget. The fishing and hunting proclamations through 2008 included a summary of Utah?s trespass laws and cautioned sportsman not to enter private property without landowner permission. Less than two years later, anglers have a greatly expanded ?sense of entitlement? to disregard all ?no trespassing? signs and fences and to access streams on private land even when access has not been allowed without permission since these lands were homesteaded in the 1800s.
The position of the anglers is not completely unpredictable. It stems from a 2008 Supreme Court decision which found a public easement based upon public ownership of the water. It is extremely expansive. It would allow the public the right to float, hunt, fish, wade, swim, and participate in all lawful activities that utilize the water. It was a huge leap for the court to make, with far-reaching implications and lacking a foundation in Utah history. It spawned two bills (HB 80 and HB 141) that posed perhaps the most sobering questions that legislators faced this year: (1)?What right do legislators have to authorize one group of citizens to go on the private lands of other citizens, against their will, and without payment of just compensation?? and a corollary, (2)?Can the Supreme Court give the legislature authority which it is denied by the Utah Constitution??
It must be remembered that the framers of the Utah Constitution placed great emphasis on protecting private property rights. The opening lines read: ?All men have the inherent and inalienable right to enjoy and defend their lives and liberties; to acquire, possess and protect property.? It is followed in Article I, Section 22 with this compelling prohibition: ?Private property shall not be taken or damaged for public use without just compensation.?
The court's decision was based upon a statute and does not discuss these constitutional provisions. House Bill 80 would have ratified the court's decision that opened some 7000 miles of perennial streams on private land with only enough water to wade in. House Bill 141 amends the statute on which the court relied and seeks a solution in harmony with the constitutional principles. As with well-used public roads, it authorizes entry on private land where it is supported by historical use, but not in the absence of such use. Streams like the lower Provo River are clearly open. Streams accessed only by land-owner permission are not.
I am fully conscious that some anglers will feel deprived of a major expansion of recreational opportunities, but this expansion comes at the expense of others. Property transactions over the last hundred years have been made in reliance on constitutional protections. The law grants the state the power to take or damage private property for public use, but only if it is willing to pay for it. If left unaddressed, the court decision transfers hundreds of millions of dollars in land values from land owners to the public. The Division of Wildlife Resources has been purchasing walk-in fishing easements during recent years. Why would it do that? Because government seizure is not permitted in the land of the free. By what rationale could the court or the legislature simply decree an easement at the landowner?s expense?
During testimony, legislators heard many landowner stories about recent changes in their interaction with anglers. The attitude of entitlement continues to grow and is revealed in an email from a homeowner along Mill Creek on the east of the Salt Lake Valley. The mother writes of a family wedding in the backyard which was interrupted by two fishermen who declined to move on, asserting their right to be there under the court decision. It is not an isolated story. Other homeowners complain of night fishing. It is disquieting, and underscores the ?privacy? values which are at stake in this debate. These are not just ?rural? issues.
I have been an outdoor enthusiast all my life, and I love to fish and hunt, but I am willing to respect the rights of property owners. I own no river front land, nor does the overwhelming majority of legislators who supported HB 141. Their votes were based upon a commitment to fundamental principles which we share in common.



Todd Black
BTO
 
From UDWR:


Answers about Fishing Change
Available at New Web Page

If you're an angler in Utah -- especially one who likes to fish rivers and streams -- you've probably heard about House Bill 141.

And what you've heard may have left you confused about what the bill does and doesn't do.

The Utah Legislature passed the bill during this past legislative session. Gov. Gary Herbert signed the bill on March 31.

To help clear up the confusion and get correct information to anglers, the Division of Wildlife Resources has placed some information on its Web site.

The information is available at www.wildlife.utah.gov/streamaccess .

The new law goes into effect May 11.





TONY MANDILE
48e63dfa482a34a9.jpg

How To Hunt Coues Deer
 
But I still don't see how a high water mark would allow you to walk through someone's back yard....unless it is on the high water mark???

Heck the high water mark rule has been around since laws were made....but I see where that could be difficult to enforce.

I guess no matter what is passed, we can't over=regulate the buttheads in either group.
 

Click-a-Pic ... Details & Bigger Photos
Back
Top Bottom